So Oculus Rift

YMICrazyYMICrazy Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165986Members
<div class="IPBDescription">How do you guys see it?</div>I usually see a lot of gimmicks but I am actually exited for this one. It might do a lot for gaming

Plus they NS2 devs have ordered a dev kit

Can you imagine trying to track skulks with one of these? I hope it does not fade away and lives up to what it claims.

Comments

  • CabooseCaboose title = name(self, handle) Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13597Members, Constellation
    I'd love to see it compatible with mobile platforms. They said Android and iOS support is planned. I want to interact with tablets while looking through the Rift, that'd be badass.
  • SentrySteveSentrySteve .txt Join Date: 2002-03-09 Member: 290Members, Constellation
    edited January 2013
    I only know the basics, but it would probably just put massive strain on my eyes for no noticeable benefit.

    In addition, if I remember correctly, in an FPS game your cross-hair would be where you look. Not where you move your mouse. Where you look with your eyes.

    So basically, I could look at a head then fire and I get a headshot, move on to the next guy, rinse and repeat.

    I have no idea if it will be that easy but I believe that's their intent. If so, I hope it's a colossal failure as it would destroy most FPS games.

    Sure there may be uses for it elsewhere, but since I'm not interested in those, I wouldn't care too much.
  • AldarisAldaris Join Date: 2002-03-25 Member: 351Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2059110:date=Jan 11 2013, 03:31 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Jan 11 2013, 03:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059110"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I only know the basics, but it would probably just put massive strain on my eyes for no noticeable benefit.

    In addition, if I remember correctly, in an FPS game your cross-hair would be where you look. Not where you move your mouse. Where you look with your eyes.

    So basically, I could look at a head then fire and I get a headshot, move on to the next guy, rinse and repeat.

    I have no idea if it will be that easy but I believe that's their intent. If so, I hope it's a colossal failure as it would destroy most FPS games.

    Sure there may be uses for it elsewhere, but since I'm not interested in those, I wouldn't care too much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Why would it strain your eyes? And surely it will be down to the game devs how the device interacts with their game? Rather than a mouse currently controlling your entire body with rotation, a mouse can instead controll the arms via crosshair with moving your head control the head of your character. It will have massive immersion qualities because of this.
  • sherpasherpa stopcommandermode Join Date: 2006-11-04 Member: 58338Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2059110:date=Jan 11 2013, 03:31 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Jan 11 2013, 03:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059110"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I could look at a head then fire and I get a headshot, move on to the next guy, rinse and repeat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Am I being stupid or is that not how it works with a mouse?

    If anything, I see aiming with Oculus being harder than keyboard, because

    1. Having view movement seperate to crosshair (I'm thinking ArmA II, or perhaps the way it works in a tank in Battlefield) gets me muddled up easily

    2. Wouldn't Oculus work on gyroscopic movement thingy-mabobs? In which case surely you can't replicate the pixel-perfect aim a mouse offers, let alone better it?
  • ThansalThansal The New Scum Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Members, Constellation
    The eye strain idea probably comes from the fact that many of the current/past head mounted displays do tend to give terrible eyestrain, especially to people with imperfect vision. However, that's explicitly been talked about with Oculus. Each panel is supposed to be individually focusable, so it doesn't matter how messed up your eyes are.
  • SentrySteveSentrySteve .txt Join Date: 2002-03-09 Member: 290Members, Constellation
    edited January 2013
    <!--quoteo(post=2059290:date=Jan 11 2013, 10:41 AM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ Jan 11 2013, 10:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059290"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Am I being stupid or is that not how it works with a mouse?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    One of us isn't properly understanding how the Rift works. I'm under the impression you actual vision, where you as a human are looking, controls where your crosshair goes. I can look at people all I want right now in a game, but until I move my mouse on them I won't hit them.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If anything, I see aiming with Oculus being harder than keyboard, because

    1. Having view movement seperate to crosshair (I'm thinking ArmA II, or perhaps the way it works in a tank in Battlefield) gets me muddled up easily<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    From my understanding, there is no view movement that is separate from the crosshair. Where you look is where your crosshair aims. I don't know how that's possible, but your eyes control your crosshair. Assuming this can be done accurately, you would literally just need to look (not move a mouse) at a target and fire.

    So yeah... if that can actually be done accurately it would be a horrible thing for FPS games, in my opinion.
  • ScytheScythe Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 46NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver
    Moving your head to aim the cursor would be far too slow. I think they're going to decouple the reticle from the centre of the "screen". You'll still control your body's facing with the keyboard and mouse, and you can look around independently of the facing of your weapon. I've tried playing with this in ArmA2 with head tracking and a regular monitor. It kind of works if you set up a mild deadzone straight ahead, such that your view is loosely "locked" on the cursor, but you can shoulder-check without moving your gun. I found it more annoying than useful, so I turned it off. I expect the occulus rift would be better in this regard since the screen turns with your head, rather than remaining straight ahead of you while your head moves.

    I'm most excited about the possibilities of the rift and simulators. It would make elaborate cockpit builds more or less superfluous. Flight sims, mechwarrior, hooo daddy yes please.

    --Scythe--
  • ThansalThansal The New Scum Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Members, Constellation
    It should be pointed out that all the people that think "Looking at some one" to target them is good are thinking about how we ACTUALLY look at things (Ie, Move our eyeballs). Moving your head to actually aim would be terrible, and likely the set up will be as Scythe described, reticule, and this "front" of your character is controlled by mouse and keyboard, however you actually view location is controlled by looking around.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    The whole viewpoint/aimpoint disconnect is something I don't know how well it'd work, but I imagine there's a way to do it, just hasn't been developed yet due to lack of reason to.

    The headset though seems cool. Do hope it goes somewhere, if they can make it affordable and it gets enough game support I'll get one.
  • Sub_zer0Sub_zer0 Join Date: 2004-05-09 Member: 28569Members
    I think really its what comes after it that would be more exciting, if this was a first gen it would be a learning curve. As well as this if it hits off further gens would only become more compatible (Plus 3d gaming opportunities with it?).
  • SvenpaSvenpa Wait, what? Join Date: 2004-01-03 Member: 25012Members, Constellation
    Is the ski mask design final or will it become more sensible? My head hurts after hour(s) with big-ish headphones so I can imagine the force holding the OR in place when it's all pressed against your face isn't all that comfortable.

    This might have been addressed already but what's the recommended maximum use per session with OR? The 3D function on handhelds are like 3-4 hours and I hope I'm not alone with playing things for longer than that without taking 1 hour breaks.
  • DrfuzzyDrfuzzy FEW... MORE.... INCHES... Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21094Members
    edited February 2013


    First actual full in game footage I've found, this looks like its going to be goooooood
  • CabooseCaboose title = name(self, handle) Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13597Members, Constellation
    That's badass. The FOV is completely separated from the gun. You don't even need to see what you're shooting.
  • ComproxComprox *chortle* Canada Join Date: 2002-01-23 Member: 7Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    edited February 2013
    Ok, this is only question then: What about all the controls? Can you easily fit crouch, jump, all the weapon buttons, alt fire, 4 move buttons, use, zoom, flashlight and whatever else a game needs on the gun? The VR part looks incredibly impressive, I just don't see how it fixes any of the limitations VR usually has.
  • XythXyth Avatar Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22312Members
    It's a step in the right direction but I don't think it'll see mass adoption given the weight/wiring required by the limits of modern technology. Without mass adoption I can't see Microsoft or any of the other big players putting real money into taking advantage of it. Without those millions of development dollars I can't imagine AAA titles including functionality as anything other than a last-minute shoe-horned feature that ultimately doesn't change anything about the game.
    Sub-optimal to say the least.

    On the other hand, it's not hard to imagine a lightweight, head mounted, wireless, seamless, hemi-spherical curved display offering a huge FOV in a form-factor that the average consumer won't find repulsive. This is probably many years in the future, though some progress is being made on the seamlessly curved part of that idea.

    I do regret not stopping by to try it at CES :(
  • CabooseCaboose title = name(self, handle) Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13597Members, Constellation
    Xyth wrote: »
    I can't imagine AAA titles including functionality as anything other than a last-minute shoe-horned feature that ultimately doesn't change anything about the game.

    I don't know, I'd say HL2 is a AAA title. An old one, but AAA. That shoehorned feature sure looked game changing to me, and I was just watching on a regular screen.
  • -WildCat--WildCat- Cape Town, South Africa Join Date: 2008-07-19 Member: 64664Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    How do you guys see it?
    I'm super excited about it. I'll almost certainly get one when the consumer version arrives.

    I don't know how that's possible, but your eyes control your crosshair.
    It's not your eye movements that control the crosshair. It's your head movements. I don't think that the human neck muscles are more accurate that those of the human hand and fingers so it's unlikely to provide an advantage in that respect.


    That said, your head movements don't necessarily have to control where you're actually aiming. It depends on how the head tracking system is implemented. It seems to me like there are two possible ways that the head tracking system could be implemented for FPS games:
    1. Moving your head alters your aim just like the mouse. You would still need to use the mouse to turn completely around because you would not be able to do that while sitting down. So essentially, you'd be using a combination of mouse and head movements to aim.
    2. Moving your head alters the direction that you look without changing the direction that your gun is aiming. You would continue to use the mouse exclusively for aiming. Moving your head would just be for looking around. It would be like the Half-Life 2 video Drfuzzy posted except you'd be sitting down with a mouse instead of standing up with a custom gun controller.
    I can't say for sure which one of these I would prefer because I would need to try them both out before forming an opinion. However, I THINK that I would probably prefer the second option.

    Last year around October, I played a fair amount of Day-Z, which is a zombie mod for Arma 2. Arma 2 has a feature where you can turn your head independently of where you're aiming. You hold down a certain key and then you can move your mouse around to turn your character's head without changing his aim.

    At first, I thought this was a pointless feature but, after trying it out for some time, I found that I was using it all the time without thinking. When I went back to playing other FPS games, I started to wish that they had this feature as well. In fact, I think it would be really cool to add this feature to Natural Selection 2, regardless of Oculus Rift compatibility.

    With the Oculus Rift, however, a feature like this could essentially be on the whole time without even having to hold a key down.
  • XythXyth Avatar Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22312Members
    Caboose wrote: »
    Xyth wrote: »
    I can't imagine AAA titles including functionality as anything other than a last-minute shoe-horned feature that ultimately doesn't change anything about the game.

    I don't know, I'd say HL2 is a AAA title. An old one, but AAA. That shoehorned feature sure looked game changing to me, and I was just watching on a regular screen.

    I wrote a bunch of words about what defines a AAA game but who really cares. HL2 was a success and a great game but it still pales in comparison to the sales records of games like COD:blops which almost outsold the lifetime of HL2 in the first 24 hours.

    I think Occulus is a great idea but it's ahead (pun unintended) of it's time. I would blame the fact that the technology required to make it in a form factor that will be palatable for the average human (which is to say: not computer gamers) simply doesn't exist.

    With that said, I look forward to the future when video games all take advantage of VR (stereoscopic, true to life FOV, head movement tracking, etc) presentation techniques whether it's head or wall mounted.

    Imagine FPS games where you actually have to USE the iron sights, they don't align automatically (ala COD) instead you actually have to position your head correctly. Perhaps environments that take advantage of your heightened spatial awareness or the ability to correctly use cover.
    I guess these are the kinds of game changes I want when I said I was afraid of it just being an after-thought shoe-horned accessory.
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    This tech sounds cool, but if aiming becomes as simple as looking at someone, well, it would be the end of a great era.
  • MyOwnOwnerMyOwnOwner Join Date: 2010-01-09 Member: 70006Members
    Squishpoke wrote: »
    This tech sounds cool, but if aiming becomes as simple as looking at someone, well, it would be the end of a great era.

    Gude,

    I tested a system with a little different approach and I can say, that it is currently nearly impossible to compete with those kind of glasses + head tracker when there is no auto-aming/mouse provided.

    The turning speed with the glasses "lags" a bit and cannot be compared with the direct keyboard+mouse input at the moment as far as I can tell.

    The tested system consisted of the following:

    - Glasses with motion sensor
    as a substitute for the mouse
    - Gaming Glove (Peregrine as far as I remember)
    as a substitute for the keyboard (movement only)
    - A friend
    who pressed the fire button on the keyboard, when I said "fire". XD

    So the system was pretty unique.

    Naturally, firing would be much faster if I had a second glove for the different fire modi, reload and weapon switching, but combining these 3 "future" techniologies was really awesome. (By the way, we used a cryengine 3 sandbox, so the graphics were cool, too.)

    But as I said earlier: You cannot compete with a normal keyboard+mouse control because of the current aiming lag you will suffer in FPS games.

    Maybe the motion sensors will get faster, but according to this video QuakeCon 2012 - John Carmack Keynote (starting somewhere after the first hour) the "direct" input combined with fast monitors will deliver the better gaming experience. Think about a gasoline engine compared with a hydrogen engine. In theory, the hydrogen engine has the better efficiency and more energy availability, but the gasoline engine has 100+ years (equal to roughly a quadruple-bazillion of man-hours) of extra development time... Same counts for the motion sensor input. It is the more natural input, but the keyboard+mouse has made lots of improvements over the decades like from the ball mouse to a 4-or-more-k dpi laser mouse.

    Back to the quote: I think if the development goes on, many people will start using these new input/output devices. But I am sure it will not end the era; It will just bring it to the next level while it will certainly never feel more "direct" as a decent mouse.

    Isch mach ma weider.
  • DrfuzzyDrfuzzy FEW... MORE.... INCHES... Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21094Members
    Think of this as how ARMA or Operation Flashpoint work. You still have your basic controls, but you can look around freely from the crosshair rather than pressing buttons to look left/right. It was said in an interview that they are working on incorporating leaning also, so you won't have to press a lean button any more. You'll have a true 3D display as each display's camera is offset to match what you would actually see, along with a much larger field of view than with a regular screen. Basically this thing should completely saturate your sense of vision, just make sure you know how to use a keyboard without hunting and pecking.
  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
    Personally, I'm looking forward to the Rift coming to a commercial release, preferably sooner than later.
    The only reason I didn't buy a Dev kit is because 1) The lenses sit so close to the cornea, that wearing glasses is impossible, and 2) the commercial release version has been stated to include planned diopter adjustment, as well as software correction for astigmatism.

    Had a friend who tried one out; apparently it was absolutely incredible. He got motion sick; not because it was bad, but because it was so GOOD. Turning his head resulted in an instant response. Zero perceivable delay. The reason he got motion sick was that his eyes said he was moving, but his body was completely still. The reverse of carsickness, essentially. Also, it's apparently light enough that even extended wear is a non-issue, even with the dev kits.

    I'm also looking forward to a version that integrates a camera (or two/three) for each eye, and motion-track contact lenses; allowing both head orientation to be tracked (by the MEMS gyros in the headset) and eye tracking to optimize things even further (A follow-HUD, graphical effects reliant on where you're looking)... I can only imagine a remake of something like Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem putting screaming faces and slithering things in just at your peripheral vision, that would vanish as soon as you looked at them. Or ACTUAL tunnel-vision on low health. Closing one eye to go into scoped mode. Or yes, as people have been afraid of, looking at an enemy to target them, independent of head position, making the whole thing even more fluid and natural.


    Really, it all depends on how well it's adopted. Most of my engineer friends are chomping at the bit, or already own a Dev model. A higher-res version is expected between the $200-300 price point; high for a monitor, but on-par with a standard 3D setup. Beyond that, it all becomes chicken-and-egg; getting game devs to include the support (and do it WELL!!) to justify buying one... and people buying them making it a viable point to include in a game's code.

    The only reason I'm really negative is the low inclusion rate of multi-monitor gaming... even NS2 (which would GREATLY benefit from a triple-monitor setup, with a SIMPLE and proven change to the code) doesn't do it right; the Devs continue to use Vert- instead of Horiz+ for FOV. When it's a literal 15-second change to the code needed. Imagine how much it will take to add Oculus support?
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