If this happens to you often try playing on clan servers. They usualy dont have any abuse, because there are often admins around and the players are friendly and more skilled.
<!--quoteo(post=2057574:date=Jan 7 2013, 04:59 PM:name=Sammey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sammey @ Jan 7 2013, 04:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If this happens to you often try playing on clan servers. They usualy dont have any abuse, because there are often admins around and the players are friendly and more skilled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well...
Speaking as a member of a clan (no so active anymore, but still) clan servers have their own share of problems...
<!--quoteo(post=2057574:date=Jan 7 2013, 01:59 PM:name=Sammey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sammey @ Jan 7 2013, 01:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If this happens to you often try playing on clan servers. They usualy dont have any abuse, because there are often admins around and the players are friendly and more skilled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Clan servers are great except when they have reserved slots, and you get kicked because =L337=JoeBlow joins.
I normally only play on the TBG servers, but lately wanted to try some 16 player games so I end up joining UWE servers. I cannot begin to express how much I hate pubs right now. Just today, I got ejected as a comm by a bunch of greens because I wasn't building the exact way they wanted to. I go to a diff UWE server and watched as every single alien comm gets ejected. Seriously, it seems that the "friends" were ejecting each other as well, thinking it was funny.
<!--quoteo(post=2057660:date=Jan 8 2013, 02:37 AM:name=Frothybeverage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frothybeverage @ Jan 8 2013, 02:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057660"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Clan servers are great except when they have reserved slots, and you get kicked because =L337=JoeBlow joins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Never had that issue on EU clan servers, but i'm mostly sticking to HBZ, YO and Weasels as most other servers are basically unplayable due to low player skill. Sometimes i join an official or random French server and i'm always amazed by the rounds i'm joining.
Round been going on for 30 Minutes, Kharaa at 3 hives but still no leap, Marines on 1 base and 3 RT's (all of em protected by sentries) and half of the maps RT's have never been capped. I even joined rounds where Kharaa had all kinds of structures inside the Marine spawn, cloaked by Shade, because the Commander didn't build any OBs in 30 minutes.
Tbh i can't even imagine playing regularly on anything but a clan server. The flood of green makes the game unplayable most of time, it's simply not fun to play like that. And i never had any issues with eject vote abuse in 430 hours of playing, but as i said: Most of that played on well administrated community servers.
I love the super useful comments about "Ive got xxx hours and never saw it happen" .. ok great, that doesn't mean there isn't a problem. .
I have only 150 hours and I have seen this happen three times. Two times the trolls got bored and left but the one time they literally cleared out the server, everyone had to quit because these three guys kept ejecting. Ironhorse, its good to know I can try you on steam next time it happens, I did not realize official servers had admins. Perhaps there should be a feature built into the official servers where users can type a command which summons admins to 'investigate problems' ? That way if some trolls are ruining a server we at least have some way to stop them, eventually.
<!--quoteo(post=2057902:date=Jan 8 2013, 05:23 PM:name=joederp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (joederp @ Jan 8 2013, 05:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love the super useful comments about "Ive got xxx hours and never saw it happen" .. ok great, that doesn't mean there isn't a problem. .<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just can't see the problem. Why are you bothering with some trolls for so much time, when you can just change the server in 1 minute? I play mostly on the EU official servers and haven't seen this once. I could understand you when it would be problematic to find a server without trolls, but I don't believe that I'm just to lucky to never met them.
I am not sure of the current behavior with the "commander eject". Does it require only one person clicking the "Eject" button? Or does it require more? I heard it was majority vote but I read this thread and I guess that is not true.
If it only takes one vote to eject, that needs to be changed. There is always going to be selfish idiots that don't care about anybody else and they will eject a comm simply because they are in the mood to comm and they didn't get in the chair in time. Maybe a majority is too excessive, but at least 2 or 3 people for sure. If 3 people think the comm sucks or he is AFK, that seems fair to eject him.
ive got 1500 hours playing time, and ive seen it happen a handful of times.
Ive even seen it happen on clan servers! i saw poor chuck norris get kicked out of the hive on his own server! whoever did it refused to admit it, and i was forced to take over command, too afraid to stay in the hive for more than a few moments at a time in case they were just kicking everyone.
Id really like to see voters names appear for all of the team to see.
<!--quoteo(post=2057404:date=Jan 7 2013, 11:01 AM:name=Xao)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xao @ Jan 7 2013, 11:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057404"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This isn't the same ballpark as ejecting the comm because he's ###### at comming, It isn't even the same league hell it's not even the same ######ing ballgame. This thread is about idiots in groups of 2 vote ejecting and swapping teams over and over again or sticking to one side and constantly ejecting, forcing a server to shutdown since in 300 hours of NS2 I've seen 2 admins in server, community policing doing an out ######ing standing amount of work as per usual.
<b>I've also never witnessed famine in 20 something years of living, it must not exist in afreca or south corea right, I mean I haven't seen it, isn't this worth noting.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Xao wins the thread. I wanted to point this out because I skipped over his original post since the grammar was so atrocious, only to go back and read it realizing the irony. Xao makes the most articulate and reasonable point in this whole thread, even though his writing sucks and he mixes up the Koreas. I'm going to assume his post is so meta and sarcastic, it was deliberate.
Either way he is right. Just because you personally never experienced it doesn't mean an easy to fix game breaking problem shouldn't be rectified.
<!--quoteo(post=2057144:date=Jan 6 2013, 05:53 PM:name=Ghosthree3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghosthree3 @ Jan 6 2013, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057144"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How much have you REALLY seen this abused though, I mean in theory sure, it can be abused, but I've only had 1 set of people actively abuse it and eject anyone but themselves out of comm in over 300 hours of play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had three players join alien team on my server yesterday, one of them gets in the chair and starts yelling about something unimportant so he's ejected, and the other two do the same thing and are ejected as well. Those three players then ejected every single other player who joined the alien comm chair, and left the entire alien team without a commander.
Just happened there. Two guys systematically ejecting any comm, two games messed up before server die. This is <b>urgent </b>: Make it 3 minimum for the vote !
<!--quoteo(post=2057922:date=Jan 8 2013, 11:16 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Jan 8 2013, 11:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057922"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just can't see the problem. Why are you bothering with some trolls for so much time, when you can just change the server in 1 minute? I play mostly on the EU official servers and haven't seen this once. I could understand you when it would be problematic to find a server without trolls, but I don't believe that I'm just to lucky to never met them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So your solution is "find another server" ? lol I'm very glad you are not on the dev team.. the vote eject system is broken, and needs to be fixed. Period. It needs to show who is voting to eject and it needs to require the majority of the team to vote to eject , like 75% of the team, not just two a-holes on a 8 or 10 person team..
Yeah definitely. This has happened a couple of times to me. Once aliens were losing by mid-game even though we were two players less on marine. Two aliens switched teams, ejected me from chair. Then when the next guy took over, he was ejected too. Same thing to the third comm. The remaining players weren't very good as comm, and marines ended up losing.
I think comm ejection percentage should be 50% + 1. But not that ridiculous 75% someone suggested: some people on the team are just coming over from COD/BF3 and don't care what's going on in terms of strategy as long as they can shoot aliens and kill cysts, so often you won't ever reach that percentage.
<!--quoteo(post=2058121:date=Jan 8 2013, 08:39 PM:name=Xnm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xnm @ Jan 8 2013, 08:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2058121"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It doesn't matter if you have good or bad luck towards this, it's happening nontheless and needs to be dealt with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is worth repeating. The fact it happens at all means the eject system needs some change. It's great that there are not too many ######s around for this to be a common issue, but that does not mean we should tolerate this type of behavior/abuse.
the easiest way to fix ejection abuse is to remove anonymous ejecting, show everyone who they are and problem solved. But of cause, that's something UWE will never do, it's been 9 years and counting since NS1.
<!--quoteo(post=2057404:date=Jan 7 2013, 10:01 AM:name=Xao)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xao @ Jan 7 2013, 10:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057404"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've also never witnessed famine in 20 something years of living, it must not exist in afreca or south corea right, I mean I haven't seen it, isn't this worth noting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you comparing the famine levels in Africa to that of South Korea? I am mad and roffling.
The OP is right, show who is ejecting and set the % higher. I've seen it abused more often recently.
I've got to say, i've never seen ejection abuse in all my time in NS2. I've only ever used it twice myself, to boot hopelessly retarded comms who thought building 4 ip's and 3 armoury's at main-base was a good idea.
Most people in publics don't even know that the eject command exists tbh.
I would say that it does need to have some sort of text message to say who's voting what etc.
Simply raising the number from 2 to 3 (without computing how many people are in the team wich may change during the eject cast) would deal with most of the issue imo at the moment.
<!--quoteo(post=2058381:date=Jan 9 2013, 03:43 PM:name=ogz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogz @ Jan 9 2013, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2058381"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so the attitude is 'dont fix something until it starts to affect me?'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not the attitude at all, people are just sharing their experiences to see how widespread this problem actually is and what temporary workarounds exist. Of course just by having this discussion the problem will be more widespread on it's own (Hello Streisand effect!).
The way better question to pose is: How to actually fix it? Setting the voting threshold too high will only lead to the eject vote being useless. For example requiring 75% people to vote positive is way too high of an threshold considering that most people don't even know an eject vote got started or exists in the first place.
Imho the threshold should be fine at 51% (more than half the team) In addition to that maybe the voting system should be changed in a way to make it more transparent and more apparent. Selecting the "eject vote" option from the menu should start a vote with a server message like "XYZ started a vote to eject Commander ZYX". Instead of requiring every player to go into the Comm menu and also select "eject Commander" every Player gets a simple pop up along with the message "Press Page Up to vote Yes, Page Down to vote No". That should assure that team participation on such votes is high enough to make them meaningful and actually work.
But changing the vote system in such a way probably will fail once again on the hard limit of keybindings in spark..
<!--quoteo(post=2058431:date=Jan 9 2013, 11:38 AM:name=Wake)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wake @ Jan 9 2013, 11:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2058431"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Simply raising the number from 2 to 3 (without computing how many people are in the team wich may change during the eject cast) would deal with most of the issue imo at the moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This. 50%+ is too much. Not enough people would eject when needed.
I've played for maybe 150 hours since release (100 before, but this abuse never happened in the beta) and have seen the abuse maybe ~5 times. Completely ruins the server. Generally it happens in Official servers. It's definitely a very small problem that could be less of a problem with this change.
AFireInAsa, 50%+ is only too much because there are zero notices about a eject vote running. If the game would actually inform the players about a eject vote (and making it easier/more obvious to participate) 51% should work out just fine to prevent obvious Commander trolls.
Moving the required votes simply from 2 to 3 does make the trolling harder but only by a small margin. Imho going with an percentage would also better account for the vastly different playernumbers on servers. 3 Players might be enough of an barrier for 12 player rounds, but requiring 3 players on a 22 player server? That still leaves it open to dedicated trolling by a couple of buddies.
Comments
Well...
Speaking as a member of a clan (no so active anymore, but still) clan servers have their own share of problems...
Clan servers are great except when they have reserved slots, and you get kicked because =L337=JoeBlow joins.
Never had that issue on EU clan servers, but i'm mostly sticking to HBZ, YO and Weasels as most other servers are basically unplayable due to low player skill.
Sometimes i join an official or random French server and i'm always amazed by the rounds i'm joining.
Round been going on for 30 Minutes, Kharaa at 3 hives but still no leap, Marines on 1 base and 3 RT's (all of em protected by sentries) and half of the maps RT's have never been capped. I even joined rounds where Kharaa had all kinds of structures inside the Marine spawn, cloaked by Shade, because the Commander didn't build any OBs in 30 minutes.
Tbh i can't even imagine playing regularly on anything but a clan server. The flood of green makes the game unplayable most of time, it's simply not fun to play like that.
And i never had any issues with eject vote abuse in 430 hours of playing, but as i said: Most of that played on well administrated community servers.
I have only 150 hours and I have seen this happen three times. Two times the trolls got bored and left but the one time they literally cleared out the server, everyone had to quit because these three guys kept ejecting. Ironhorse, its good to know I can try you on steam next time it happens, I did not realize official servers had admins. Perhaps there should be a feature built into the official servers where users can type a command which summons admins to 'investigate problems' ? That way if some trolls are ruining a server we at least have some way to stop them, eventually.
I just can't see the problem. Why are you bothering with some trolls for so much time, when you can just change the server in 1 minute? I play mostly on the EU official servers and haven't seen this once. I could understand you when it would be problematic to find a server without trolls, but I don't believe that I'm just to lucky to never met them.
If it only takes one vote to eject, that needs to be changed. There is always going to be selfish idiots that don't care about anybody else and they will eject a comm simply because they are in the mood to comm and they didn't get in the chair in time. Maybe a majority is too excessive, but at least 2 or 3 people for sure. If 3 people think the comm sucks or he is AFK, that seems fair to eject him.
Ive even seen it happen on clan servers! i saw poor chuck norris get kicked out of the hive on his own server! whoever did it refused to admit it, and i was forced to take over command, too afraid to stay in the hive for more than a few moments at a time in case they were just kicking everyone.
Id really like to see voters names appear for all of the team to see.
<b>I've also never witnessed famine in 20 something years of living, it must not exist in afreca or south corea right, I mean I haven't seen it, isn't this worth noting.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Xao wins the thread. I wanted to point this out because I skipped over his original post since the grammar was so atrocious, only to go back and read it realizing the irony. Xao makes the most articulate and reasonable point in this whole thread, even though his writing sucks and he mixes up the Koreas. I'm going to assume his post is so meta and sarcastic, it was deliberate.
Either way he is right. Just because you personally never experienced it doesn't mean an easy to fix game breaking problem shouldn't be rectified.
I had three players join alien team on my server yesterday, one of them gets in the chair and starts yelling about something unimportant so he's ejected, and the other two do the same thing and are ejected as well. Those three players then ejected every single other player who joined the alien comm chair, and left the entire alien team without a commander.
This is <b>urgent </b>: Make it 3 minimum for the vote !
So your solution is "find another server" ? lol I'm very glad you are not on the dev team.. the vote eject system is broken, and needs to be fixed. Period. It needs to show who is voting to eject and it needs to require the majority of the team to vote to eject , like 75% of the team, not just two a-holes on a 8 or 10 person team..
Maybe I just have really bad luck.
I think comm ejection percentage should be 50% + 1. But not that ridiculous 75% someone suggested: some people on the team are just coming over from COD/BF3 and don't care what's going on in terms of strategy as long as they can shoot aliens and kill cysts, so often you won't ever reach that percentage.
I only eject comms if they are AFK
If they are terrible I just give them tips on how to comm
This is worth repeating. The fact it happens at all means the eject system needs some change. It's great that there are not too many ######s around for this to be a common issue, but that does not mean we should tolerate this type of behavior/abuse.
Are you comparing the famine levels in Africa to that of South Korea? I am mad and roffling.
The OP is right, show who is ejecting and set the % higher. I've seen it abused more often recently.
I've only ever used it twice myself, to boot hopelessly retarded comms who thought building 4 ip's and 3 armoury's at main-base was a good idea.
Most people in publics don't even know that the eject command exists tbh.
I would say that it does need to have some sort of text message to say who's voting what etc.
That's not the attitude at all, people are just sharing their experiences to see how widespread this problem actually is and what temporary workarounds exist.
Of course just by having this discussion the problem will be more widespread on it's own (Hello Streisand effect!).
The way better question to pose is: How to actually fix it?
Setting the voting threshold too high will only lead to the eject vote being useless. For example requiring 75% people to vote positive is way too high of an threshold considering that most people don't even know an eject vote got started or exists in the first place.
Imho the threshold should be fine at 51% (more than half the team)
In addition to that maybe the voting system should be changed in a way to make it more transparent and more apparent.
Selecting the "eject vote" option from the menu should start a vote with a server message like "XYZ started a vote to eject Commander ZYX".
Instead of requiring every player to go into the Comm menu and also select "eject Commander" every Player gets a simple pop up along with the message "Press Page Up to vote Yes, Page Down to vote No". That should assure that team participation on such votes is high enough to make them meaningful and actually work.
But changing the vote system in such a way probably will fail once again on the hard limit of keybindings in spark..
This. 50%+ is too much. Not enough people would eject when needed.
I've played for maybe 150 hours since release (100 before, but this abuse never happened in the beta) and have seen the abuse maybe ~5 times. Completely ruins the server. Generally it happens in Official servers. It's definitely a very small problem that could be less of a problem with this change.
Moving the required votes simply from 2 to 3 does make the trolling harder but only by a small margin. Imho going with an percentage would also better account for the vastly different playernumbers on servers. 3 Players might be enough of an barrier for 12 player rounds, but requiring 3 players on a 22 player server? That still leaves it open to dedicated trolling by a couple of buddies.