Marine Weapons
ma$$a$$ter
Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165651Members
Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165651Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Magazine size, Accuracy loss.. etc..</div>To all the people complaining about magazine size in the rifle
I wouldn't be opposed to increasing the size (or having that be a re-searchable upgrade) IF : the following was changed.
A) Accuracy cone rather then pin-point (forced by recoil?)
1. Where you aim should never be where you hit 100% of the time with any weapon...
B) Accuracy loss on movement
2. You can't run and gun and expect to maintain 100% target accuracy..
C) Heavy machine-gun like a SAW was the upgrade
3. You should loose the ability to bunny hop across the battle with heavier weapons spraying and praying..
Why?
You never shed the base life form on the aliens.
The aliens, for the most part, remain a melee class...
I'm sure damage of the weapons would need to be tweaked..
I wouldn't be opposed to increasing the size (or having that be a re-searchable upgrade) IF : the following was changed.
A) Accuracy cone rather then pin-point (forced by recoil?)
1. Where you aim should never be where you hit 100% of the time with any weapon...
B) Accuracy loss on movement
2. You can't run and gun and expect to maintain 100% target accuracy..
C) Heavy machine-gun like a SAW was the upgrade
3. You should loose the ability to bunny hop across the battle with heavier weapons spraying and praying..
Why?
You never shed the base life form on the aliens.
The aliens, for the most part, remain a melee class...
I'm sure damage of the weapons would need to be tweaked..
Comments
1. Where you aim should never be where you hit 100% of the time with any weapon...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
against a good alien player, you'll never down them at long range, both due to aliens size as well as speed, which would negate the entire strength the marines have outright
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->B) Accuracy loss on movement
2. You can't run and gun and expect to maintain 100% target accuracy..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
see above
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->C) Heavy machine-gun like a SAW was the upgrade
3. You should loose the ability to bunny hop across the battle with heavier weapons spraying and praying..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
an HMG would be interesting potentially...
honestly, the biggest issue i've seen with marines in combat with skulks in particular, and a detail i exploit fairly reguarly, is that most of the time they unload their entire clip in one automatic burst. in my case, ill get close, let them see me, and then wallrun and such like mad until i hear their gun go empty, then close in.
this tactic is much less successful, and the battles much closer, when the marine fires in short and careful bursts. it only takes 8 rounds to down a skulk with W0, 10 i believe with carapace. out of 50 rounds, that isn't all that much.
my 2 cents, anyway.
Good points - great reply
I've seen a few take you out before you ever make it half way down some hall ways...
I personally think the marines strengths are in the combat of the squad, rather then the single marine.
Picture it.. 2-3 marines forced to burst fire to prevent accuracy loss over fire duration as they slowly creep down the hallway, a single marine with limited mobility but great suppressive firepower (the SAW) lays covering fire... More interesting combat tactics required, more interesting game play... IMHO...
But again, in my world you wouldn't be firing from a jetpack with a rifle either.. at least not expecting to hit whatever your shooting at.
Really intended to go into more detail:
At the current state I feel like the game lacks a certain depth..
I think an ability to "squad" your team as commander is important, putting up to 4 players in a squad and forcing them to stay together. Some kind of "downed" system should be in place to help with this.. Maybe for 10 seconds, that player is revivable by his squad. adding some sound to correlate, marine talk - like "covering fire!", "Man Down!" - something to immerse you into the battle...
Honestly the fact that upgrades are handed to every marine at spawn is rather bleh too. I think if you want weapon level 2, you walk your butt to the armory and go get it as if it was an upgrade.. hell aliens don't start with Carapace because it was researched..
It's a great game, the concept has so much to offer, it's just at the moment, lacking....
recoil suggestion :
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbFG7DGVsKA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbFG7DGVsKA</a> : Note the gun "walks" up the wall as well with the recoil.
Add a foregrip as an upgrade you can get at the armory to lower the recoil effect. weapon mods as upgrades? Sounds like a great addition..
as for upgrades, they feel fine, though at worst it could be a thing of 'they don't kick in until your next spawn-in'. still, nanomachines. aliens can upgrade their stuff once the upgrades are available anywhere at any time, so marines getting their passive upgrades at least evens that out.
the marine tactics issue is kinda less that such doesn't exist, and more that unless the group in question is trying for it, it isn't forced. a group of marines that play with such tactics are a force to be reckoned with, but most just wanna run around and shoot the critters, sometimes without thinking about where they are going, to hilarious results *lures a marine into a nest of cloaked whips*
At the moment I can only speak for myself. NS1 was a jump in and fight, and an awesome concept with the additions added..
NS2 at it's current build is more of the same, with too few tricks... I'm really excited to see what the Dev team has to add to this down the road.
I would, personally, like to see more immersion into the game. It feels like Team Fortress 2 with commanders at the moment.. Great for a few kicks and laughs in a couple of rounds, but not a game you sit down and devote long hours to unless your mapping for it.
What has the world come to..
bring back HMG's, because it would simply serve same purpose as op is suggesting AND wouldn't mess up the whole game in earlygame for not being able to aim.
edit :
actually, a hmg kind of weapon that is cheap, does less dmg per bullet but has higher firingspeed, basicly hmg and lmg mix up with reasonable cheap prize.
this would be great "noob weapon" to research for teams that can't aim, to give them some chance againts aliens, ofcourse not making it OP or even superior than LMG, just easier to aim, roughly same dmg as lmg and takes the skill factor from the weapon.
I'd be all for magazine size changes, simply because the game can always use more options. Hey, I'd be for LOWERING the stock LMG clip down to 40, then make magazine clip upgrades 1/2/3 increase the clip size to 50/60/70 respectively. Toss it on the arms lab and give commanders and teams the choice. Better teams may forgo the upgrade, while weaker teams may want it. Variety is always a good thing though, it keeps things fresh.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->B) Accuracy loss on movement<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'd be all for a loss of accuracy when jumping.
There are no headshots and no recoil.
There are damage numbers popping up on your screen.
Even with 100% accuracy, it's already hard to catch a bug running all over the place, nevermind when there are more than one!
I like the way it is.
If it's about enhancing the gameplay of the players in shooter POV, I'd prefer:
- Squad formation;
- Squad buffs when they are moving together;
- Marine support class that can drop ammo/health;
- More pre-recorded voice commands;
- etc.
Edit: I also agree with evohunz about squad buffs and a marine support class.
Yep, me too.
Solution - Sub machine gun?
30 clip, faster reload than rifle, accuracy reduces quickly unless burst-fired but sprays in a conveniently sized cone for taking out mid-to-close range skulks, and damage drops off drastically at range. Max DPS even at closest range should be less than that of the rifle (made up for partially by the spray).
Options for upgrade path - Could be alternative default weapon selectable from the armoury, or one you have in 'newbie mode'. Could also be a cheap early-mid game upgrade for a decent amount of res.
Could help newbies learn to shoot like real men before using big boy guns?
As far as movement and accuracy not being 100%, again it's the future and marines are trained... Nanites... It's not easy to hit skulks close up and knowing how to juke and shoot is the best skill a marine can learn. That goes out the window if you lost accuracy by moving. But having done a lot of tactical exercises I can say with some certainty that yes you can still shoot accurately while moving at a decent pace, but no we've never shot while jumping. It's a game though.
HMG's will probably make their way back into regular marine hands at some point, but in the mean time what does it really matter.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->would serve to make it even harder for new players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, but I wasn't actually aiming to make the game more friendly - I was thinking about adding some depth and immersion into it.
as it sits now, It just feels shallow... It needs something... Just my opinion - and I opened it up for debate
However this doesn't mean we couldn't come up with some other clever weapons which fit into NS2 as long as they have a sufficient reason for existing. I think a SAW-like LMG could exist. You'd need to distinguish its role and functionality from the shotgun, though. One possibility is it's unwieldy unless deployed, making the shotgun the assault weapon and the SAW a defensive area-denial weapon. Another possibility is the SAW is a spray-and-pray weapon suitable for newbies (and maybe better for sustained anti-structure damage output?) but inherently worse for anyone who can aim well.
So yeah, alternative weapons would be great but replacing the rifle would not.
Personally I think if weapons are being added for fun purposes there are far stronger options than a SAW. For example if we had some sort of rocket/bazooka which was inherently amazing against big things (Onos/Hives/Fade) but terrible against smaller things (Skulk/Lerk)
However this doesn't mean we couldn't come up with some other clever weapons which fit into NS2 as long as they have a sufficient reason for existing. I think a SAW-like LMG could exist. You'd need to distinguish its role and functionality from the shotgun, though. One possibility is it's unwieldy unless deployed, making the shotgun the assault weapon and the SAW a defensive area-denial weapon. Another possibility is the SAW is a spray-and-pray weapon suitable for newbies (and maybe better for sustained anti-structure damage output?) but inherently worse for anyone who can aim well.
So yeah, alternative weapons would be great but replacing the rifle would not.
Personally I think if weapons are being added for fun purposes there are far stronger options than a SAW. For example if we had some sort of rocket/bazooka which was inherently amazing against big things (Onos/Hives/Fade) but terrible against smaller things (Skulk/Lerk)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I'm all about deploying the Saw, Maybe deploy able on boxes ect.. hell, maybe even go prone (yeah, I know, lot of animation work involved in that, sorry devs!)
I would like to see some other "styles" of play rather than same marine new weapon. Throw a medic into the mix, let him field heal team mates...
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7urjbKDE14" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7urjbKDE14</a>
I see your argument and raise you <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1kApnsayeQ" target="_blank">my argument</a>
I see your argument and raise you <a href="http://www.callofduty.com/" target="_blank">my argument</a>. Don't make this into another call of duty clone.
This game is how it is for a reason, with much deliberation. It isn't going to change like that. I hope ever.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=126929" target="_blank">Seriously?</a> No.
This game is how it is for a reason, with much deliberation. It isn't going to change like that. I hope ever.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=126929" target="_blank">Seriously?</a> No.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well you know what they say.. opinions are like A**holes, we all have one..
And BTW - thanks for the detailed explanation as to why or what you think would fit better...
errr... are we even playing the same game?
It's nearly impossible to avoid being toe to toe with an alien. Unless you are one of those players that are always following someone letting them be the bait. Try not being toe to toe with an alien when they have cloaking or are hiding in a corner just waiting for you to walk by or start repairing/building.
<!--quoteo(post=2057708:date=Jan 7 2013, 10:06 PM:name=ma$$a$$ter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ma$$a$$ter @ Jan 7 2013, 10:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057708"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe deploy able on boxes ect.. hell, maybe even go prone (yeah, I know, lot of animation work involved in that, sorry devs!)
I would like to see some other "styles" of play rather than same marine new weapon. Throw a medic into the mix, let him field heal team mates...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->]
deployable cover or a prone position would be almost pointless in NS2. A marine sitting in 1 spot = a dead marine in this game.
Having different classes in this game, such as a medic, would not work out that great because then you need separate upgrade paths for different classes....making it too much for a commander on limited res.
What you could do is add some sort of medical triage device that a commander could research so the marines could buy it if they wanted to spend the res on it, effectively making those players a field combat medic who bought it. Kind of like how welders are done, although welders can be used for other things.
It's nearly impossible to avoid being toe to toe with an alien. Unless you are one of those players that are always following someone letting them be the bait. Try not being toe to toe with an alien when they have cloaking or are hiding in a corner just waiting for you to walk by or start repairing/building.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol very true - does that mean you have to blindly walk into a room though?
It happens - you have the option to NOT do it, but more often then not we just go ahead and do it. I do subtract my strong suggestion that it shouldn't happen.. because it does, often.
My point was , each side should have its ups/downs and marines SHOULD loose in a melee fight..
Of course, I also found out since the LMG was more accurate that I could now snipe far away aliens that were poking their head at me. That's also a plus. However, some mention of this to new players would REALLY be nice.
How is it drama? We're talking about a 100% accurate assault rifle with zero recoil. Watching <a href="http://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Natural%20Selection%202" target="_blank">Twitch.tv</a> competitive matches and scrims confirms my hunch of how amazing the LMG is when you create squads of 2-3 marines who are my skill level or better and actually work together (instead of recklessly ramboing, as I usually do on pubs.) If memory serves, it's 9 bullets to kill a skulk right out of the gate and you get 50 bullets. If you're not bad, the LMG is an absolute monster of a weapon.