Am I the only one to use Echo?
slayer20
Killed a man once. Join Date: 2007-12-13 Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Killed a man once. Join Date: 2007-12-13 Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
I just had a 72 minute game and I was playing as the Alien Commander so I guess I got to experiment with this a little, and I found it to be amazing.
I placed a Shift in an area that was completely safe that wasn't a hive. I then created about 5 to 6 Whips and upgraded them all so they could use the Bombard ability. After that was all done, I just had to wait for the opportunity to place some cysts just right outside of their base so I could teleport the Whips and have them start wrecking stuff.
It worked really well too. Being able to amass whips and spawn them in one right after the other is great. You don't even have to unroot them or anything. Just need to place them right next to the Shift and wait a couple of seconds.
I placed a Shift in an area that was completely safe that wasn't a hive. I then created about 5 to 6 Whips and upgraded them all so they could use the Bombard ability. After that was all done, I just had to wait for the opportunity to place some cysts just right outside of their base so I could teleport the Whips and have them start wrecking stuff.
It worked really well too. Being able to amass whips and spawn them in one right after the other is great. You don't even have to unroot them or anything. Just need to place them right next to the Shift and wait a couple of seconds.
Comments
most of the time the game has ended before i can amass the whips/bombard and shift/echos
It's nearly useless. Your res is better spent elsewhere in 99% of situations.
Also bombards... ILOLd.
6 whips and a shift, thats almost one onos egg that can wreck a base almost as good as whip bombard, plus it can retreat and react to other threats like a marine counterattack.
6 whips and a shift, thats almost one onos egg that can wreck a base almost as good as whip bombard, plus it can retreat and react to other threats like a marine counterattack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually more like 2 Onos eggs if you account for the bombard upgrade!
6 whips and a shift, thats almost one onos egg that can wreck a base almost as good as whip bombard, plus it can retreat and react to other threats like a marine counterattack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it's not almost one onos egg. Shift+echo, 6xWhip+Bombard, and then res to echo... That's probably over 3 onos eggs by my calculations xD
Right now, echo and hallucinations are a case of "where can I waste my res more spectacularly now that we've already won."
That being said there are plenty of alien life-form combinations that you could make with those resources that are more effective at doing the same thing, so I don't see the point.
Has it been considered to allow the commander to move players as well with echo? It seems like aliens have enough maneuverability as it is that late in the game for this to even be useful.
it can be problematic trying to find the exact right spot to put a whip to ensure it targets what you want it to target, but when you pull it off it makes your whole team smile :D
not to mention echoing in your shift to your upgrades when they are under attack, and then echoing out the upgrades before they go down, SUPER useful and no one can claim that this isnt an economical use of resources.
AND a worthy mention for having your crag/shift forward station being able to echo in every crag forward to the next position you are trying to hold.
AND using them to echo in huge numbers of crags to a hive that is under heavy attack.
AND using them to echo in bombard whips to surprise the exo/arc push on your hive.
Really, i find shifts INCREDIBLY useful.
Right now, echo and hallucinations are a case of "where can I waste my res more spectacularly now that we've already won."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's effective in that bombard whips have a massive damage output and can destroy a base really quickly.
It's not effective in that it's not at all res-efficient (much better spent on 3 onos eggs), and chances are, you're not going to spread the infestation far enough towards their base without the cysts.
I save echo + bombard whips for end-game shenanigans where we're gonna win anyway, and last resort "nothing else to spend res on and exos are closing in on base" moves (though usually the cyst chain gets cut off and it just turns into an epic alien-turtle).
The only time it's ever worked for me to win a game that hasn't already been won yet was when some clan was pubstomping us, were overconfident and didn't build a second cc, and managed to cyst into their base right as they were going to take out the hive. It's very much a "last resort" or "we've already won" move though.
It is fairly hilarious to cyst into a marine base, then surround the IPs with echo'ed whips though.
i prefer to just built new stuff.
maybe it's "useful" to echo mature whips...but when you are able to do that you already won.
i never use it.
Works well on Veil from nano-grid as you get to defend nano-grid, the walk back to nano-grid isnt that far and you have lots of spare tres.
that's not true.
as far as i know crags stack up to 3. Hence more than 3 crags are useless.
evolve echo an move 3 crags = 30 tres.
or you just build 3 new ones. and have 2 healing stations. Unroot whips and walk them forward.
echo is just way too expensive to be useful.
Offense ALWAYS >>>>>> Defense.
Therefore buying a lifeform is pretty much always the #1 choice.
I only play with echo when my team can hold its own. And if my team can hold its own, there's not much point to echo.
Marines attacking my rt's? Herrrp, have fun trying to beat 10 drifters.
edit: Also I don't think there is better protection you can give to your upgrades than placing them next to shift and placing few crags around and whips on the outer layer. If your base is being overrun by arcs and exos you just move all of them to your other base or some other place you think is safe.
You mean you spend all those resources, all that time dealing with a clunky interface, and you (a) don't save very much money <b><i>and </i></b>(b) no longer have rear buildings if the enemy presses forward?
...and you somehow think it's not only worth it, but "really useful"?
Echo is poorly priced and has a clunky interface right now. I still place shifts at all my forward bases, but I never bother with Echo anymore.
It's like having an 'upgrade nursery'.
It's easy enough to select all the whips in the map and simultaneously have them all unroot and head to the Echo Shift.
It's only expensive if the structures lost.
Also, as an idea for a better interface... I think it should be an ability that targets a particular structure to zap it out of existence. Then the next time you build that structure through the normal interface, the one that you Echoed comes out instead at no cost. You could queue up multiple as well, i.e. you use Echo on all the whips in one area, go somewhere else and just build whips like you would normally and they're instantly ready.
Also, as an idea for a better interface... I think it should be an ability that targets a particular structure to zap it out of existence. Then the next time you build that structure through the normal interface, the one that you Echoed comes out instead at no cost. You could queue up multiple as well, i.e. you use Echo on all the whips in one area, go somewhere else and just build whips like you would normally and they're instantly ready.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Just a gimmick"?
Really?
You have the honor of wearing a play-testers badge, then you insult yourself/your work by remarking that all upgraded tactical structures are 'Gimmicks'?
No wonder progress has been so slow.
Just saying...
Really?
You have the honor of wearing a play-testers badge, then you insult yourself/your work by remarking that all upgraded tactical structures are 'Gimmicks'?
No wonder progress has been so slow.
Just saying...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not an NS2 playtester, but yes, Bombard, Echo and Hallucinate are very much gimmicks right now. You really think after 2 months people still just haven't figured out what they're good for? They don't see popular use because they're not worth the res. Comms use them for fun, not to win the game.
Dissenters keep on including the price of the shift and the echo upgrade.... but if you pay this cost once, then you dont have to pay it over and over again for every shift strategy you want to use.
Dissenters keep on including the price of the shift and the echo upgrade.... but if you pay this cost once, then you dont have to pay it over and over again for every shift strategy you want to use.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is that it's very much a luxury. The alien comm has a lot of important things to spend money on, and there are so few scenarios where these abilities could be considered indispensable. In a game that's actually close, i.e. alien victory is not already assured, the alien team will be lucky to consistently hold more than 4 Harvesters. With that amount of income you need to focus on things that are critical - hives, upgrades, abilities, replacing RTs, etc. When you're a little more flush you can focus on nice-to-have things like drifters, crag bases, whips, shift eggs, etc. All of those things take priority over abilities like Echo IMO with the current res costs. They need to be either cheaper or considerably more powerful if they're going to compete with the cost of the necessities.
When the aliens have a ton of money, all bets are off. Games like that are barely relevant because the comm can do anything and win at that point. In that case it's just a question of which means of ending the game is most effective, and Onos eggs win that.
I agree with what you're saying, but drifters are critical, not nice-to-have. Every khamm in pubs seems to dismiss them.
When the aliens have a ton of money, all bets are off. Games like that are barely relevant because the comm can do anything and win at that point. In that case it's just a question of which means of ending the game is most effective, and Onos eggs win that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good post and yes, all the upgrade abilities are just gimmicks. I expect babblers will be too.
Part of me wants an energy system just so these things have a place, because they sure don't have one at the moment.
I've only found echo useful in maps like docking, setting up crags/shift on the walls against locker/departures hive and when we have it back porting the structures over the wall next to/in range of the hive, I think putting 1-2 crags and a whip on upgrades is infinitely more useful than an echo shift and costs the same.