[Constructive] Tackling the issue of low fun value of pub-ing with fresh look suggestions

Gfc_Gfc_ Join Date: 2012-12-25 Member: 176185Members
edited December 2012 in Ideas and Suggestions
<div class="IPBDescription">At least take a look: it’s interesting</div><b>1. INTRODUCTION</b>
You don’t need to read this if you’re content with the title only, thus cut to the points below.

<i>I’m a long time FPS player having thousand of hours of CS, Quake, CoD, BF under my belt (as well as tremendous amounts of time invested in other competitive genres, RTS included). Granted, my NS2 play time is miniscule compared to mentioned titles’, however it’s enough to form an opinion about it:

While sometimes having an intense action and other moments of greatness, most of the time NS2 is bland, monotone and borderline boring experience, with a bias towards RTS element of the game and where actions of a single soldier (not commander) don’t have any significant value or an impact on the course of the match. To make matter worse, in almost all pub games I played teammates/commanders don’t have any interest in communicating, assisting etc., i.e. playing as a team, defeating (presumably) the whole point of the game which makes the whole process even less enjoyable.

And it’s OK. It’s normal for people to behave like that: people tend to do their things how they want it and no one can blame them for that. But it’s not a good thing for the gameplay experience overall. While you can’t change people, you can change the game (or certain elements of it).

Thus this post is about how to actually improve the NS2 experience mainly for a solitary or small group of friends in a pub game, while trying to preserve/not to mess the competitive balance too much.

All provided numbers are not set in stone and subjective to balance.</i>

<b>Edit:</b> By pub-ing I mean any kind of non competing match, either it's 6v6 or any vs any.


<b>2. GIVE ME MY ‘TOYS’ SOONER</b>
One of the main culprit of gameplay blandness is the player inability for prolonged periods of time to do something else than just skulking or playing with stock marine. The logical solution would be to give players the choice to use their PRes on something useful for the individual player more frequently:

- advanced Revolver type Pistol with comparable to AR DPS and much faster switching weapon animations/time, but with less ammo than Standard Pistol and forced slow rate of fire (5 PRes cost seems appropriate). Think of it as a Shotgun in a pistol slot with the same reloading mechanics but without pellets spread and with lower DPS. Primary role: prolong the constant DPS from individual marine, softening the issue with death on reloading and providing the effective alternative weapon for Grenade Launcher/Flame Thrower users;

- Flame throwers should be cheaper (20 res sounds just right) and have a distinctive combat role (as it’s now its role of combating infestation is not sufficient for justifying the research cost and PRes cost of it). As a suggestion: even a solitary Flamethrower should be really effective against structures to be viable choice for combating clusters of constantly regenerating Alien/Gorge structures;

- Mines should be purchasable by single units, i.e. player could buy a single Mine for 5 Res, capped at 3 max;

- Mature Hydra (working name): Higher Life Form for 20-25 Res, with heavy damage melee attacks, substantial HP and Armor with an ability to root itself in place, gaining considerable Armor boost and ability to shoot poisoned spines (greater DPS than Lerk ones but much slower fire rate to promote skillful use). Additionally melee AOE attack can be researched. Quite slow movement speed (comparable to running marine) is compensated with an ability to jump really high. Primary role: damage sponge, heavy Building and Armor damage dealer early-mid game, relatively effective defender/trapper.


<b>3. BRING BACK THE FUN TO THE GAME: MORE FOCUS ON JOYFUL EXPERIENCE FOR AN INDIVIDUAL PLAYER</b>
As have been said earlier, the nature of the pub-ing does not promote or encourage teamplay and all there is left is to try to have fun playing as individual. However there are a couple of hindrances/nuisances preventing it:
There is too much down time saving the PRes for higher species evols or better guns (there should be time for economy for sure, but not to the extent we have now). Partially covered in the 2nd point.
In most cases early, mid game a player (especially Marine) doesn’t have any chance against an enemy or have any considerable impact on the match while soloing. While it’s logical, additionally to stagnating the gameplay into turtling mess, it’s not that fun or exiting: individual player should have some extent of power/more noticeable influence on the game even when soloing.
Next suggestions designed to provide possible improvements for the listed problems (some ideas’ design overlaps with 2nd point of this post):

- Recoil and spread for guns (namely AR, Pistols and maybe Shotguns) with substantial damage increase to compensate, preferably with change of visuals/sound, adding more kick, flare and better sound effect to demonstrate that the gun is actually powerful. Why: improves skill aspect of the shooting, makes it more fun to kill something (less bullets to one target, saving the complexity of shooting at moving targets, but not as uninteresting and simplistic as point and click/hold as it’s now), improves chances of individual marine to kill something before dyeing (less bullets needed), makes player feel a little bit more dangerous and powerful (which is enjoyable for many);

- Refined Alien Energy system: either less Energy regeneration, but bigger Energy pool or much bigger Energy Consumption to discourage mindless ability/biting spam and heighten “skill ceiling”. Compensate with additional damage for indirect/not full bites/swipes with addition of head bite/swipe for 100 or so damage. Reasons: same as for “recoil and spread for guns”;

- Refined Alien Evolving System: Aliens have 3 evolution slots (as originally), but can put in any already researched ability in any of those slots (i.e. can have any 3 evolutions, like for example regeneration + carapace + anything else). However things like Leap, Spores, Umbra, Blink (etc.) can be used only as evolutions, i.e. you need to put those in evolution slots instead of or additionally with original evol. abilities (capped 3 max).
While weakening Aliens mid-late, late game it will give much more freedom and choice to players, presumably diversifying builds and strategies and most of all the overall gameplay. To compensate certain species evolution and research costs may be reduced or/and 2nd and 3rd tier species abilities strengthen;

- Points tied with additional PRes gain (not really my idea). Please read and understand it before passing judgment prematurely:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124602&view=findpost&p=2025453" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=2025453</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=126210&view=findpost&p=2048413" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=2048413</a>

To summarize the represented (RFP) system:
For each point earned you gain certain amount of PRes additionally to PRes you gain from RTs. Thus you can not only kill for PRes but build and assist. Of course Points system should be remodeled to complement represented one (resources for points). Reasoning and answers for any of your concerns regarding RFP can be found via 2nd provided link;

- Healing personal drone: after Robotics is built you can buy it for 5 PRes in an armory by default (without necessity for Commander to research it). Provides regeneration (can be out of battle only). Can’t restore Armor. Can’t be destroyed. Vanishes on user’s death. Primary role: to strengthen survivability of an individual player and to lessen a dependence on Commander (which in most cases is unresponsive to Med Pack requests in pub) to provide Med Packs;

- Helms with targeting system of Exo. Can be bought for 5 PRes in Adv Armory by default (without research). Primary role: to improve an effectiveness of a single soldier and to lessen a dependence on a Commander’s scans (at least partially);

- Motion sensors (not my idea obviously) – need to be researched in Advances Armory. Reasons/Role: same as Helms with targeting system.

- Portable personal century gun (does not require battery) to provide cover for lone soldiers. After Robotics is built you can buy it for PRes in an armory without necessity for Commander to research it. Occupies 5th weapon slot and needs to be deployed. Primary role: to strengthen survivability of an individual player and to lessen a dependence on (not cooperative in pubs) teammates;

- Much less HP for cestuses and faster alien building degradation off creep, to provide additional incentive and viable strategies of de-creeping even by solitary soldier.

- Aesthetic improvement: when you try to perform an action but don’t have Energy for it there should be certain animation and sound, which signalize about insufficiency of Energy (for example head weaving with some kind of “sore” growl)

- Aesthetic improvement: when you have less than 1/3 of ammunition in a clip gun shots should sound different to signalize imminent reload necessity


<b>4. AFTERTHOUGHTS</b>
This is my parting gift to NS2 developers and community, because it's doubtful that I’d play NS2 ever again – this game strengths (fun in hybrid gameplay and encouraged teamplay) its fatal weaknesses: way to much influence in one hands (commanders) and way to little in others (field players); efforts of solitary player are insignificant and almost never game changing. And people don’t like it when their efforts are mostly futile and/or there are that many things which are uncontrollable for them. Individuals should be able to influence a match palpably, field player should have certain commander abilities to the point of being able to build certain buildings (like for example armory or phase gates, harvesters/extractors) without commander’s orders and other possible things.

Sigh, let me remind you, that all this thoughts/changes are designed to livening and diversify the stale gameplay which we have right now at least at pub games and I don’t have any personal gain from posting those (on the contrary: quite large amounts of time and intelligence invested from my part). Moreover I don’t have any illusions about my suggestions being implemented into actual game. However I hope something from those may somehow influence the game or could be of use for future game improvements and/or just spark healthy discussion.

Comments

  • Champlo0Champlo0 Join Date: 2012-04-17 Member: 150617Members
    You honestly expect to have an impact on the game as much as in a 6v6 in a 12v12?
  • DrowningwDrowningw Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175899Members
    played 50 hours so far, and most games i've been in have very pronounced teamwork. if they don't, they learn soon cause the rounds are short in this game without teamwork.
  • bERt0rbERt0r Join Date: 2005-03-23 Member: 46181Members
    edited December 2012
    Almost all of your suggestions would encourage the rambo/lone wolf gameplay style even more. The real problem in ns2 is, that the game was balanced around the beta players who were a small group of individuals who understood they have to work together to win.
    You dont have that in pubs and the game does not educate players towards acting as a team enough.
    Hardly anyone welds fellow marines because of armory healying. People even run away from me as I try to restore their armor. Marines dont depend as much on their mates -> less incentive for teamwork.
    Marine field commanders are all of a sudden a normal thing - a field soldier telling the commander what to do was very much frowned upon in ns1.
    A skulk already dies in 10 bullets. It is already annoying as hell to hit good aliens, just about as annoying as it feels to get instagibbed as an alien by a marine who happens to hit you. The real problem is hitreg.
    A lone player is already able to do significant damage to the enemy: Alien upgrade structures are low health - high cost structures, a perfect target for a rambo marine who gets in a hive. Then there is egglocking, the annoying spawncamping in hives of ns1 has been made even more powerful... On the other side, you have powernodes a single skulk/gorge can take out if the marines dont react. Add silence upgrade and enough action otherwise so the commander doesnt recognize it, a single skulk can take out the whole marine main base and turn a game around...
    As for more toys, imo there are enough toys for the marines, it is just that they are so expensive, because they are reusable after death and most of them are not an upgrade, it is more like switching to a different class.
  • KazelKazel Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175939Members
    Almost all of your suggestions reinforce the "one man army" mentality that this game is trying to fight. And all of your suggestions can easily be fixed by simply getting people to work together.

    My personal experience is that someone just needs to take charge. It is as simple as that. As soon as people start working together the fun begins and the game hits its stride.

    I will say, however, I really love the mine idea. I would love to be able to buy them one at a time because sometimes I just need 1 for a power node or phase gate, and half the time I am ending up wasting the other two in pretty useless spots just so I don't die and lose them.
  • The AlgerianThe Algerian Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175962Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2051103:date=Dec 25 2012, 09:52 PM:name=Kazel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kazel @ Dec 25 2012, 09:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051103"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Almost all of your suggestions reinforce the "one man army" mentality that this game is trying to fight.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah, the first paragraph gives you a hint why:

    <!--quoteo(post=2050963:date=Dec 25 2012, 10:31 AM:name=Gfc_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gfc_ @ Dec 25 2012, 10:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050963"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[i]I’m a long time FPS player having thousand of hours of CS, Quake, <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><b>CoD,</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> BF under my belt (as well as tremendous amounts of time invested in other competitive genres, RTS included). Granted, my NS2 play time is miniscule compared to mentioned titles’,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No offense mate but pretty much anyone who plays and enjoy NS2 does not want it to become like CoD or any other mainstream shooter.
    It's a complex game, it's about team effort and coordination, not ramboing around and going solo on killingsprees.

    I too had a hard time with the game at first but it only makes mastering it (which I didn't even yet) even more rewarding.
  • soccerguy243soccerguy243 Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175920Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    I play NS2 more than BF3 because in BF3 everyone is a rambo, camping to get jets or tanks - very little teamwork.

    NS2 at least forces you to work as a team - frustrating or not. I rarely find the gameplay to be stale. CoD and BF3 which is basically played as deathmatch formats is the most stale games out there. It sets a precedence for other FPS and that's the worst part about them.
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