I Hope All The Hitbox Issues Get Fixed Soon.
JRock
Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10032Members
Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10032Members
<div class="IPBDescription">They're kind of IMPORTANT.</div> *Marines when crouched are incredibly hard to hit, most especially in vents.
*Marines can't be skulk'd from above or below (and they should be able to - surprise attacks from above are a key skulk strategy that in this current state is almost completely useless because of the screwed up hitboxes).
*Lerks' wings aren't hitable, but they have a hitbox twice their height.
*Onos' hitbox is very small and doesn't cover a large part of the animal [looking at it from the SIDE].(perhaps to help it get through smaller doorways, which is sort of justified, but still worth mentioning).
This is an IMPORTANT thing to fix - you'd think hitbox issues would be one of the FIRST things fixed (they usually are in most mods).
So heads-up, NS team. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
*Marines can't be skulk'd from above or below (and they should be able to - surprise attacks from above are a key skulk strategy that in this current state is almost completely useless because of the screwed up hitboxes).
*Lerks' wings aren't hitable, but they have a hitbox twice their height.
*Onos' hitbox is very small and doesn't cover a large part of the animal [looking at it from the SIDE].(perhaps to help it get through smaller doorways, which is sort of justified, but still worth mentioning).
This is an IMPORTANT thing to fix - you'd think hitbox issues would be one of the FIRST things fixed (they usually are in most mods).
So heads-up, NS team. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
They are patching bugs and exploits like mad men, if this were a commercial game, you would have just now seen the first minor update, as the developers have been in Hawaii on vacation after the game's release. Chill out, take comfort in knowing that the devlopers know there are hitbox issues, and put some faith in the fact that Flayra obveously doesn't suck...
really ...
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Nullzero
[EDIT:] Onos hitboxes are fine. :|
Its the bounding box that's the problem, and thats not easy to see in model viewers cuz its set in the code.
The hitboxes are only examined by the game if a bullet passes thru the bounding box first. So if the bounding box is way small, bullets can pass through the hitboxes, but the game doesn't bother to check, becuase they did not pass through the bounding box.
Unfortunately, halflife seems to use this bounding box for COLLISION too, not just bullet tracing, which means an onos would never fit anywhere if it were fixed, you'd never be able to climb over a turret, lerks wouldnt fit in vents, etc etc etc
Once their set (having more resource points than they would normally do with harass, they siege the elevators, come down and own you. Terrible aint it.
And oh, lerks don't work too well either. The marines can camp near corners and just move away when you shoot them. Plus if you die... *twiddles finger*
Random thought: What if a skulk could latch onto a marine? IE use silence and jump on his back, then stick there? If the marine never noticed, how long would it be until he walked into a turret farm and started getting shot at, or until one of his buddies started capping him and he died to a mysterious skulk bite? I guess it'd sorta be the ultimate parasite...
*Marines can't be skulk'd from above or below (and they should be able to - surprise attacks from above are a key skulk strategy that in this current state is almost completely useless because of the screwed up hitboxes).
*Lerks' wings aren't hitable, but they have a hitbox twice their height.
*Onos' hitbox is very small and doesn't cover a large part of the animal [looking at it from the SIDE].(perhaps to help it get through smaller doorways, which is sort of justified, but still worth mentioning).
This is an IMPORTANT thing to fix - you'd think hitbox issues would be one of the FIRST things fixed (they usually are in most mods).
So heads-up, NS team. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its very possible to kill a marine from above or below, I do it plenty of times. The only bad hotboxes I see right now is a marine at the edge of a vent. They're pretty much impossible to kill. Marines inside vents are fine, though. And a crouching marine is easy..
I thought this was the case, actually. Stood at the edge of a vent. Fired a couple of rounds onto a skulk running around on the floor. The guy goes away and comes back with his buddies (4 other skulks). I didn't fire at them, 'cause I thought I was invincible (no, I didn't smoke/inject/ate anything prior), instead I taunted them and mocked over say. Then finally this german guy says "Scheisse" and climbs up the wall and kills me...
The others felt quite silly after that, since no one thought of that approach. Instead they tried to parasite me to death.
Its the bounding box that's the problem, and thats not easy to see in model viewers cuz its set in the code.
The hitboxes are only examined by the game if a bullet passes thru the bounding box first. So if the bounding box is way small, bullets can pass through the hitboxes, but the game doesn't bother to check, becuase they did not pass through the bounding box.
Unfortunately, halflife seems to use this bounding box for COLLISION too, not just bullet tracing, which means an onos would never fit anywhere if it were fixed, you'd never be able to climb over a turret, lerks wouldnt fit in vents, etc etc etc<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are correct - it is the bounding boxes (called player hulls) that are the problem. It's a known issue. It just needs to be fixed, but it's quite possible it's beyond anything the NS team can do and is actually up to Valve to fix this, because this issue affects all HL mods (CS, etc).
Copy/paste of a proper explanation from another player:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Half-Life has a hardcoded maximum of THREE (3) total player hulls. This maximum cannot be changed by anyone except for Valve. The original Half-Life used one hull for the normal player in a standing position, one for a crouching position, and a point or 'null' hull of size (0, 0, 0).
I wouldn't be surprised if Half-Life checks all hits on the player hull BEFORE checking the hitboxes. Thus, your shot would have to hit the player hull before it gets checked against the hitboxes.
Obviously, Natural Selection needs a lot more hulls than the three allowed, so they really have to make do with reusing them as they can. I can guess that they have a skulk/gorge/lerk/playercrouch hull, a fade/playerstand hull, and an onos hull. I don't know for sure.
One other point - the player hulls are AXIALLY aligned. They DO NOT rotate with the player. So, it would be impossible to extend the onos hull from head to tail; if you did that, the onos would only be able to walk through the doors facing one specific direction but not the other (i.e. north-south doors but not east-west doors).
Knowledge++ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Though if it DOES come to that, and the mappers need a dual-1.4Ghz machine to do the compile, I'd be happy to contrib some CPU horsepower. :-)