AvP vs. Skulk movement
NA1
Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173677Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173677Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">Can we have the choice?</div>I've played every AvP game and have logged significant hours into NS1, and am sinking more into NS2 as of late.
The lack of BHop has created an interesting skill hole for the skulk. I'd really like something to fill it.
Can we please, please have the option to use the stick-to-surface controls of the Alien in all AvP games? A camera that rotates to your current model's angle, and 100% wall stick until you decide to let go.
Frequent players of AvP1 or AvP2 will remember what it's like driving at super speeds while maintaining orientation awareness. It was a skill. Doing spiralling wall->floor->wall->ceiling runs. Circling around pipes only to leap off. Finding absolutely amazing sneak points to attack from. It was a great skill with a very very tall ceiling that really separated the mediocre from the amazing alien players.
Why can't we have this? Current skulk movement is pretty boring. Give us the option to let us control it the same way as in AvP, 100% wall-stick (with appropriate toggle on) and camera rotation to current orientation.
I know this was brought up before NS2 came out. Why wasn't the option given?
The lack of BHop has created an interesting skill hole for the skulk. I'd really like something to fill it.
Can we please, please have the option to use the stick-to-surface controls of the Alien in all AvP games? A camera that rotates to your current model's angle, and 100% wall stick until you decide to let go.
Frequent players of AvP1 or AvP2 will remember what it's like driving at super speeds while maintaining orientation awareness. It was a skill. Doing spiralling wall->floor->wall->ceiling runs. Circling around pipes only to leap off. Finding absolutely amazing sneak points to attack from. It was a great skill with a very very tall ceiling that really separated the mediocre from the amazing alien players.
Why can't we have this? Current skulk movement is pretty boring. Give us the option to let us control it the same way as in AvP, 100% wall-stick (with appropriate toggle on) and camera rotation to current orientation.
I know this was brought up before NS2 came out. Why wasn't the option given?
Comments
EDIT: I believe it has been stated that doing this right would also require changes to the maps to add direction hints all over the place, adding even more dev and testing time to this.
I believe the OP, when he mentions 100% wall stick, means that you don't fall off the wall if you look slightly away from the wall and move forward.
I can completely agree that this would be nice, but then again, I already get stuck on many of the props (probably just me being terribad) and that wouldn't help XD.
Despite wall-walking being available in AvP2, not many people utilized it much thanks to pounce being the main method of evasion and tail stun for close range but in NS2, it isn't available + the clunky wall orientation it just wouldn't work. I do remember playing a runner though and being able to perfect wall-walking vs pulse marines. That was an art.
The wall stick is something I would like though, hold down ctrl or something to stick.
1. Camera Orientation.
Being upside down, your skulk camera should be upside down. Logical, but unlikely that many players would ever pick this up. It's a skill based game, and the only way I see people using it is if you actually enforce everyone to use it. But the current way wall jump is now, it would be extremely disorienting compared to AvP. Skulks are faster and wall jump extremely frequently as a necessity.
2. Button to Stick to the Wall, without falling.
This is an option that would be good for skulks, because running along ceilings and walls is difficult to keep doing, especially if you want to look elsewhere while moving. I support the idea, but it's not really necessary compared to other features at the moment.
You know a button you press and it toggles you to not leave walls so it won't let you make the slight error movements what cause you to drop down it will just sort of hold you there. Not saying I have much of a issue with the present wall running but I have found myself falling a few times and just managed to save it after imperfectly moving over something sticking up on a wall / ceiling.
1. Camera Orientation.
Being upside down, your skulk camera should be upside down. Logical, but unlikely that many players would ever pick this up. It's a skill based game, and the only way I see people using it is if you actually enforce everyone to use it. But the current way wall jump is now, it would be extremely disorienting compared to AvP. Skulks are faster and wall jump extremely frequently as a necessity.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulks move at about.... 1/4 the speed of aliens in the original AvP.
Now that is a combat mod I'd play
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I say keep it the way it is or at the least make it so the user can decide in settings.
The only way it would work for ns2 is with focus, if you remember AvP had the one-shot head leap mechanism, and you were harder to spot, and more durable, it was like that because having the camera rotating actually made moving around for aliens very hard to master.
Theres some skulk movement tricks that you can do in ns2, wall hopping and whatnot. But if you start rotating my camera, i am not going to be able to get the 4 bites i need to kill a rine as easily, almost all my attacks involve hoping on and off walls to avoid bullets.
Think about it, the camera has to be locked to the angle of your direction as you move. If that was the case in NS2 and you ran over a girder, your view would suddenly flip 90 degrees upwards, then 90 degrees to flat, then 90 degrees down then 90 degrees forward just to move over it.
Obviously this could be limited and smoothed, but that is essentially what the challenge is. I imagine the levels in ALIEN based games have a collision layer covering the whole map, just to address alien movement. That or you just use really simplistic surfaces to run on.
Charlie mentioned that 3rd person might be seeing the light of day, we'll have to wait and see.
Now that is a combat mod I'd play
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Holy ######, survival mode with Quarantine on NS2? Kreygasm! SOMEONE MAKE IT!
I remember the old camera rotation... it was weird.
I think this is definitely one of those "all or nothing" kind of things... the only amounts of camera rotation that make sense are 0% or 100%.
0% makes sense because everything is always constant, up is always up, down is always down.
100% makes sense because it allows you to get inside the skulks head and, once you get used to the mechanics of it, would allow you to more naturally move through the environments.
As far as the technical aspect goes, I'm no computer programmer or anything... but couldn't you figure out a way around the erratic camera movements pretty that moving through a detailed environment would cause pretty easily? It seems like you could do something simple involving momentum and trajectory vs time spent on a given surface to figure out what direction the camera should be facing... but I honestly don't know what I'm talking about at all when it comes to that so I could be totally wrong.
I would love a 'lock to wall' button, but the people pointing out that the geometry in NS2 would limit it far more than AvP are right. Although it might be possible to 'smooth' wall running through reworking where the 'walls' are for Aliens, but that's probably a bit too much work for an already released game with other nagging map issues.
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+1 to that!
It will be difficult to smooth out the constant camera movement? Well, the obvious solution is to have a simple keybind: flip towards whatever orientation the model is already positioned to, and it won't change until you press it again. (Much like the current system except you can choose which way is up whenever you please).
Example:
1) Jump towards wall. I don't want to orient right now because I'm planning on going to the ceiling anyways. It'll be just like the normal camera setting as it is now.
2) Reach the ceiling. Do I want to flip my view? Of course! Bam, flipped.
3) Oh no! There's a pipe on the ceiling! What do I do? Well, I'm already oriented to the ceiling, so there is no point in flipping around a pipe. Don't push the button.
4) Oh no! I'm queasy because I have a pathetically weak stomach! Solution: jump towards the ceiling (used to be the floor), hit the button, and never worry about it again.
Oh yeah, the obvious solution of adding a new keybind for a gimmicky effect…
We always had some bugs however with the camera flipping around the wrong axis and such, it's not the easiest problem. For example if you strafe against a wall you need the camera to rotate around the z (forward) axis, while if you face a wall the camera need to rotate around the x (left-right) axis.