Fades Are Fine
Bullet_Force
Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165952Members
Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165952Members
I've seen a few topics on here lately stating that Fades in their present state are too weak. Most people seem to be comparing their value to that of the Onos which is not a good comparison. If Fades were to be made stronger they would completely dominate the Marines, at present it already takes 2 Marines to deal with one Fade as in deny it attacking in an area.
Giving it more health/armour would make it more of a super skulk rather then a nimble but fast assassin type unit. What I would like to see is the fade being given say a damage buff when striking the rear of a Marine. This would fit its role as a stealthy unit and give it a slight buff while not over powering it.
A second option would be too increase its strike damage but reduce its health. This would be a good balance and suitable for its role. If a Fade charges in head first against two Marines though it should lose almost every time.
Giving it more health/armour would make it more of a super skulk rather then a nimble but fast assassin type unit. What I would like to see is the fade being given say a damage buff when striking the rear of a Marine. This would fit its role as a stealthy unit and give it a slight buff while not over powering it.
A second option would be too increase its strike damage but reduce its health. This would be a good balance and suitable for its role. If a Fade charges in head first against two Marines though it should lose almost every time.
Comments
I think that, in the hands of a very good player, the Fade is fine at the moment. We've seen them rape recently (I am reminded of Gorgeous' 30 kill streak in a competitive game) and the changes that have gone through for them since haven't been complete overhauls. It is still roughly the same Fade it was. The problem is that the Fade is hard to play. Its really hard to play. I have a very large amount of play time in NS2 (even more in NS1, if that counts for anything) and I still never go Fade, because it is a wasted class on me. It isn't necessarily harder than, say, a skulk or lerk, but those classes are considerably cheaper. People dying with the skulk get annoyed, but they aren't enraged because the skulk is free. The lerk is a lot cheaper, but even then, people are still complaining about the lerk being ineffective (something experienced players are having trouble comprehending at the moment).
The ultimate solution, in my opinion, would be something that raises the skill floor of the fade. Some change which greatly affects the very new players, but hardly affects the veterans at all. Unfortunately, at first glance, health increases seems the simplest answer to this kind of problem. It is nowhere near ideal, but it does address some problems. Ultimate, the best solution will be very difficult to come up with. You need something which empowers noobs, but not pros. You need a mechanic which doesn't emulate what a veteran can do with the fade (for example, widening the attack arc to make it easier to hit detracts from the skill of aim that good players have). It is a very difficult problem to solve. Maybe the best solution is to just wait for players to become better with the fade?
In NS1 Fades could get the Focus evolution which allowed them to do more damage per attack but their attack rate was reduced significantly. In NS2 it takes a Fade around 4-5 Swipes to kill a marine with Armor level 3.
Another thing worth noting was that in NS1 armories didn't repair a marine's armor but in NS2 it does and with Fades doing less damage this means that Fades can rarely get a kill an retreat. Instead a Fade will blink in, get 2-3 swipes in a marine and if the Marine team is good they will shoot the Fade and the marine that was damaged will just be able to heal 100%, faster than the Fade can return to his hive to heal.
Vortex seems to be a pretty useless ability as I've rarely seen it researched in a typical game (unless it's toward the late-late-game where the Khaamander has nothing else to research so he researches Vortex for the lolz). I think a 2nd ability such as NS1's Metabolize (which was ability when used would regenerate a Fade's health and stamina every time it was used but the Fade couldn't attack while using Metabolize) would be much more useful.
Yes and no. It shouldn't have any delay as soon as you release the blink key, but sometimes, you can't attack until a few hundred miliseconds after.
/Thread
EDIT: LERKS are better then fades and they cost 30ress :)
Maybe, make them cheaper, like 30 resources, but make their access an upgrade the commander has to make with 2 hives? Dunno, just trying to look at it from different angles.
If you wanted to buff Fades to make them more viable against those Arms Lab-enhanced marines, you have basically two options:
<ul><li>Buff the Fade by nature but delay the moment when they can actually appear in the march, like requiring the khammander to research lifeforms first that are more advanced than Gorges. Lerk requiring 1 Hive and 20 Tres, Fade requiring 2 Hives and 30 Tres and Onos requiring 3 Hives and 40 Tres.</li><li>Add some researchable upgrade that makes the Fade more effective later on while still keeping the initial weaker Fades.</li></ul>
I do agree that fade needs some love.But definately not HP and Armor increase.I've seen people that could WRECK stuff as fades.Like getting jetpackers midair.So it means that it is possible to be effective as fade even late game.
However it's control is rather clunky.Changes I propose are :
-During blink you are not moving forward.While holding right key you are simply hovering midair.Holding WASD keys allows you to move into desired direction,with space and cntrl to get you higher/lower.Imagine how agile fade could become.It does not need lots of health,since it can evade shots more effectively and not just predictably charge straight at you.
-Make it attacks slow but more devastating.
-Making Vortex a ranged skillshot as was suggested many times.