Make lerk spikes ineffective against buildings.

ComboBreakerComboBreaker Join Date: 2012-11-22 Member: 172856Members
edited December 2012 in NS2 General Discussion
Title pretty much says it all.

There are a lot of maps,where a single lerk can be a real headache,since he can sit in a safe spot and plink at powernode from a safe distance.Docking is the most shining example here.Its not gamebreaking,its just annoying.

Making lerk spikes do less damage to buildings would remove the problem.Lerk is not meant to be a sniper.

Are you against it or do you support it?
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Comments

  • TimMcTimMc Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143945Members
  • greenpeegreenpee Join Date: 2012-04-10 Member: 150218Members
    Against it. Fix the angles of the maps and make the lerk actually have to enter the room.
  • LofungLofung Join Date: 2004-08-21 Member: 30757Members
    no. lerk spikes already take ages to kill a building. if it is that important than you should scout if often.
  • VolcanoVolcano Join Date: 2011-07-27 Member: 112496Members, Constellation
    edited December 2012
    fix marines being able to snipe rts and hives from the other side of the room because it's really annoying
  • LofungLofung Join Date: 2004-08-21 Member: 30757Members
    oh yes btw. if you really have to mention, one should fix hives where it could be shot and grenade spammed from the other room.
  • SaltSalt Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172766Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited December 2012
    Nope, against. Lerk is the only "viable" ranged alien lifeform with mobility to boost. i'd say attacking powernodes that cause atleast two marines to try and fimd / kill the lerk (mostly unsuccessfull) is a tactic.
    Something you can't prevent nor ignore.
    If two marines are busy with a lerk, that means that the front lines have two marines less.
    If they ignore it, you take the power down.
  • ComboBreakerComboBreaker Join Date: 2012-11-22 Member: 172856Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2042424:date=Dec 9 2012, 06:25 PM:name=Volcano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Volcano @ Dec 9 2012, 06:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042424"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->fix marines being able to snipe rts and hives from the other side of the room because it's really annoying<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    1).To end the game marines need to kill a structure which has a lot of health.Lerk needs to kill a powerndode which does not have a lot of health.This does not end game right here and now,but it really endangers marines.
    2).Marines,even with jetpacks cant run away as effective as lerk.
    3).Marines do not have camo and regeneration,while lerk can chip-and-run powernode for a long time.
    4).Marines in the same room as hive are not "annoying",this is actually a coordinated push which made it through the map on foot and thus it either kills your hive or dies.

    Denied.
  • Ellen RipleyEllen Ripley Join Date: 2012-11-06 Member: 167803Members
    Lerks spikes already do pitiful damage to buildings. If you see a lerk spiking something, grab a shotgun and go after it. If they're sniping a building then they're a sitting duck.

    You want to nerf skulks biting extractors too? Cause that's pretty annoying. Lerk harassment is a legitimate tactic. Leave it as is.
  • NammNamm Join Date: 2011-12-08 Member: 137116Members
    I did this through a vent on ns_veil. Very sneaky. Took down an Armory and a helped destroy a Phase Gate. I'm ashamed of myself. All I had to do was to hold down mouse button #1 and occasionally tap the strafe keys.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    It was perfect without spikes because they actually had to put themselves in a vulnerable position to attack structures.
  • AzaralAzaral Join Date: 2012-11-19 Member: 172408Members
    You realize how long it takes to actually spike a power node down?
  • Champlo0Champlo0 Join Date: 2012-04-17 Member: 150617Members
    The map angles just need to be fixed, thats about the only thing.

    Also welding vents needs to happen sometime, as well as doors.
  • JediPhreaKJediPhreaK Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167028Members
    I think Lerks are too effective at close range, they are supposed to be a ranged / support class but can easily take out a few Marines solo. Their bite should use up like 75 percent of their Energy maybe more, this would make them only able to bite once then flee and either attack from ranged or attack with another player.
  • LofungLofung Join Date: 2004-08-21 Member: 30757Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2042451:date=Dec 10 2012, 12:35 AM:name=JediPhreaK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JediPhreaK @ Dec 10 2012, 12:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042451"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think Lerks are too effective at close range, they are supposed to be a ranged / support class but can easily take out a few Marines solo. Their bite should use up like 75 percent of their Energy maybe more, this would make them only able to bite once then flee and either attack from ranged or attack with another player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    i, too, thinks that shotgunning lerks into their face close range is too effecitve. it is meant to be a bacon but then it kills the bird outright. better nerf irellia.
  • cake.cake. Join Date: 2012-01-12 Member: 140165Members
    I dont think this should even be considered for an argument
  • nailertnnailertn Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172301Members
    Lerks are hard to balance because they are nigh unkillable if they are sniping from afar but relatively fragile if they do anything else. They are not necessarily to blame for the problem you desribe though, it's more that power nodes are a bad mechanic to begin with. Why is it a problem after all that a lifeform can damage buildings, that's how you are supposed to win the damn game. And do you want to also stop bile bombs from damaging them? How about the double onos + node mating ritual? The whole power node idea should be revised. Whatever the case though the main node in docking must be moved, that's just silly right now.
  • MaximumSquidMaximumSquid Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
    <u><b>ComboBreaker:</b></u>

    They already are ineffective?
    I think gorge spit is better DPS so why isn't this thread about them instead?
  • ComboBreakerComboBreaker Join Date: 2012-11-22 Member: 172856Members
    <b><u>JediPhreak</u></b>
    Well,lets not get into this.Lerks - as a killing tool - are perfectly fine.They are effective,require skill and can be dispatched by a skilled marine easily.

    <u><b>MaximumSquid</b></u>
    You misunderstood why I've raised the question : while dps is not the best it is more than enough to destroy powernodes.There are so many places where lerk can safely snipe powernode while not beeing endangered.I repeat : <u>this is not gamebreaking.</u>However its almost impossible to fend them of powernode in the early-mid game if the lerk has any bit of brains.

    Im not complaining about gorges or skulks harassment because they need to be relatively close and exposed when attacking powernodes and also can be chased down.
  • Ellen RipleyEllen Ripley Join Date: 2012-11-06 Member: 167803Members
    If anything, this is a map design issue. Not a lerk balance issue.
  • SpaceJewSpaceJew Join Date: 2012-09-03 Member: 157584Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2042448:date=Dec 9 2012, 10:29 AM:name=Champlo0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Champlo0 @ Dec 9 2012, 10:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042448"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The map angles just need to be fixed, thats about the only thing.

    Also welding vents needs to happen sometime, as well as doors.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    But why, when Marines can use the vents better than the Aliens?

    Also, Lerk spikes do reduced damage vs. structures as they are piercing class weapons last I checked. This means it's 25% increased damage vs. players or alternatively it's a 25% damage <i>reduction</i> versus structures depending on how you want to look at it.

    Yes, it's annoying when a lerk is spiking a power node. It's less annoying if your team is paying attention and does something to stop it since your <i>entire team</i> comes equipped with ranged weapons by default.

    You should be glad it isn't a skulk, or a gorge with Bile Bomb, which are free and 10 P.Res respectively and both do more damage vs. structures than a lerk's Spike attack.

    I would also agree that it's more of a map issue than a lerk balance issue, although that issue swings in favor of both sides depending on the map. And yes, there are <i>several</i> maps left over from NS1 that were never re-balanced for NS2 which doesn't make <i>any</i> sense at all.
  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    This is a terrible idea. Lerk spikes already do pitiful damage to buildings, and you want them to be worse? Lerks are flying paper bags, put a shotgun blast in their general direction and they'll have to run away.
  • LilbitHeartlessLilbitHeartless Join Date: 2012-11-19 Member: 172517Members
    So lerks should be nerfed because they can do something useful that you have to defend against and when you do defend they don't die easily? Guess I'm against.
  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2042556:date=Dec 9 2012, 12:20 PM:name=LilbitHeartless)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LilbitHeartless @ Dec 9 2012, 12:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042556"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So lerks should be nerfed because they can do something useful that you have to defend against and when you do defend they don't die easily? Guess I'm against.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The thing is though, Lerks go down so ###### fast that it's ridiculous. A stationary lerk is just a waste of 30 res basically... you can take half his health off before he can even start moving
  • unkindunkind Join Date: 2012-02-04 Member: 143563Members
    just ignore the lerk, and get someone to weld the node every 10 minutes
  • NolSinklerNolSinkler On the Clorf Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26560Members, Constellation
    But I like shooting the power node in docking from super far away... :(
  • VolcanoVolcano Join Date: 2011-07-27 Member: 112496Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2042435:date=Dec 10 2012, 02:27 AM:name=ComboBreaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ComboBreaker @ Dec 10 2012, 02:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042435"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1).To end the game marines need to kill a structure which has a lot of health.Lerk needs to kill a powerndode which does not have a lot of health.This does not end game right here and now,but it really endangers marines.
    2).Marines,even with jetpacks cant run away as effective as lerk.
    3).Marines do not have camo and regeneration,while lerk can chip-and-run powernode for a long time.
    4).Marines in the same room as hive are not "annoying",this is actually a coordinated push which made it through the map on foot and thus it either kills your hive or dies.

    Denied.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't think you realise I wasn't being serious good try anyway boy
  • xxswatelitexxxxswatelitexx Join Date: 2012-11-16 Member: 171754Members
    A single marine can be very annoying. A ninja marine is a smart marine who never attacks any building except upgrades.

    Idiot marines attack every cyst upto the hive - basically screaming on the loud speaker - HEY ALIEN COMMANDER I AM GOING TO YOUR HIVE. OMFG HOW DID YOU KNOW I WAS GOING TO YOUR HIVE. THAT bE DA HaX!

    -----

    Power nodes are in open areas because hives are in open areas. Power nodes are the key structure to marines. Hives are the key structure to the aliens.
    A lerk can be denied direct access to node by building an armory in the line of sight.

    Hive can be defended from gernade spam by building a whips.

    -----

    Essentially everything has an effective counter if you don't complain and actually sit down and think of how to counter.
    Everything except bile bomb.
    Bile bomb has no counter, you just got to kill the gorge.
  • VolcanoVolcano Join Date: 2011-07-27 Member: 112496Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2042651:date=Dec 10 2012, 11:19 AM:name=xxswatelitexx)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xxswatelitexx @ Dec 10 2012, 11:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042651"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bile bomb has no counter, you just got to kill the gorge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Welders
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited December 2012
    Takes like 10 seconds to weld a power node to full hp from near death but takes a lerk like 3 minutes to kill a power node. It's fine.

    @ Volcano. Sure welders are excellent but bile bomb itself is still OP imo. Too much range, too much splash, too cheap, too much DPS, too easy to use.
  • VolcanoVolcano Join Date: 2011-07-27 Member: 112496Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2042658:date=Dec 10 2012, 11:29 AM:name=RaZDaZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaZDaZ @ Dec 10 2012, 11:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@ Volcano. Sure welders are excellent but bile bomb itself is still OP imo. Too much range, too much splash, too cheap, too much DPS, too easy to use.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Same could be said about the gl
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