Marines need a buff
Kahuna
Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 170993Members
Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 170993Members
It seems to me that Aliens have to play poorly for Marines to win or Marines have to play very well. In otherwords Aliens seem overpowered. I've heard many other players say the same.
<u><b><!--coloro:#4169E1--><span style="color:#4169E1"><!--/coloro-->Aliens vs Marines<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b></u>
Aliens have much more mobility than Marines. Aliens get their mobility basically for free and very fast. Skulks are fast even without upgrades but even faster with Celerity. The only way for Marines to move around the map fast is by using the Phase Gates which are quite expensive especially at the beginning. Gettings the first Phase Gates cost 70 resources (armory+observatory+PG tech+2 PGs). After that it's 15 for each PG which is ok. I think the Phase Gate tech should cost 10 resources.
Aliens are much better at defending. Gorges can block doors for free and build 3 Hydras for 9 resources and Whips cost 15 resources. Sentries are absolutely horrible. They're expensive, very fragile and do very little damage. Getting the first 3 Sentries costs 40 resources (robo+batter+3 sentries). After that it's 25 resources for 3 Sentries. For that price Sentries health should be doubled and damage increased by 50%. Sentry Battery's health should be tripled or quadrupled.
Getting an Onos costs 75 resources. Getting the first Double Minigun Exo costs 180 resources (2 bases, proto, tech and DMExo). After that it's 75 for each. The "normal" exos cost 40 or 50 resources and are worthless. Exos need to stay in a safe dinstance from the Aliens so the melee attack isn't very useful and the single minigun overheats very quickly. I might buy a normal exo sometimes if it cost 35 resources. That would be as expensive as Jetpack + Flamethrower so I think it would be reasonable. Jetpack+Flamer might still be a better deal though. Would probably depend on situation.
Mines are not worth 15 resources. It takes 2 mines to kill a Skulk. That's 10 resources for killing a skulk that will respawn in a couple of seconds. If one Mine killed a Skulk and 2 Mines a Gorge (10 res for 10 res) they would be worth it. Mines are also hard countered by Bile Bomb. At the moment it's better to save the resources for other weapons or Prototype Lab stuff.
Bile Bomb does way too much damage to buildings.
Aliens feel stronger in every way. Researching tech and getting upgrades is more expensive and slower for Marines than for Aliens. Aliens have stronger late game and they get there easier and faster. Marines don't seem to have many strenghts. Marines have to work together and play aggressively right at the beginning and stop the Aliens from getting 3 bases. If Aliens get 3 bases it's usually GG. Aliens don't need as much resources for teching and upgrading as the Marines so the Alien commander will start spamming Onoses.
<u><b><!--coloro:#4169E1--><span style="color:#4169E1"><!--/coloro-->New tech for the Marines (these are just the basic ideas)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b></u>
-Extended Clips
Increases all weapons' clip sizes by 20%. Is researched from the Arms Lab.
-Ammo Regen
Nanites manufacture ammunition through nano-replication. Slowly regenerates ammo like Regeneration health. Is researched from the Arms Lab.
-Reinforced buildings
Increases all buildings' health and armor by 20%. Is researched from the Robotics Factory.
-Weapon Cooling System
Allows the Exosuites to shoot longer without overheating. Is researched from the Prototype Lab.
-Grenades
Like Mines, Grenades are bought from the Armory and use the 4 slot. Marines can only hold either Mines or one type of grenades. All Grenades cost 15 resources.
--Frag Grenades
Like the Mines, Frag Grenades do AoE damage when they explode. Frag Grenades have larger AoE than Mines but do less burst damage. Aliens in the AoE will take damage and bleed(DOT) for a couple of seconds.
--Gas Grenades
Gas Grenade creates a cloud of Gas poisonous to Aliens. Aliens staying in the gas will take damage. The longer they stay in the gas cloud the more damage they take. Gorges can remove the gas cloud by "healing". Lasts longer than Lerks' Spores but do less damage.
--Stun Grenades
Stuns the Aliens in a small area for a couple of seconds (similar to Onos' stomp). Onoses can't be stunned.
<u><b><!--coloro:#4169E1--><span style="color:#4169E1"><!--/coloro-->Aliens vs Marines<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b></u>
Aliens have much more mobility than Marines. Aliens get their mobility basically for free and very fast. Skulks are fast even without upgrades but even faster with Celerity. The only way for Marines to move around the map fast is by using the Phase Gates which are quite expensive especially at the beginning. Gettings the first Phase Gates cost 70 resources (armory+observatory+PG tech+2 PGs). After that it's 15 for each PG which is ok. I think the Phase Gate tech should cost 10 resources.
Aliens are much better at defending. Gorges can block doors for free and build 3 Hydras for 9 resources and Whips cost 15 resources. Sentries are absolutely horrible. They're expensive, very fragile and do very little damage. Getting the first 3 Sentries costs 40 resources (robo+batter+3 sentries). After that it's 25 resources for 3 Sentries. For that price Sentries health should be doubled and damage increased by 50%. Sentry Battery's health should be tripled or quadrupled.
Getting an Onos costs 75 resources. Getting the first Double Minigun Exo costs 180 resources (2 bases, proto, tech and DMExo). After that it's 75 for each. The "normal" exos cost 40 or 50 resources and are worthless. Exos need to stay in a safe dinstance from the Aliens so the melee attack isn't very useful and the single minigun overheats very quickly. I might buy a normal exo sometimes if it cost 35 resources. That would be as expensive as Jetpack + Flamethrower so I think it would be reasonable. Jetpack+Flamer might still be a better deal though. Would probably depend on situation.
Mines are not worth 15 resources. It takes 2 mines to kill a Skulk. That's 10 resources for killing a skulk that will respawn in a couple of seconds. If one Mine killed a Skulk and 2 Mines a Gorge (10 res for 10 res) they would be worth it. Mines are also hard countered by Bile Bomb. At the moment it's better to save the resources for other weapons or Prototype Lab stuff.
Bile Bomb does way too much damage to buildings.
Aliens feel stronger in every way. Researching tech and getting upgrades is more expensive and slower for Marines than for Aliens. Aliens have stronger late game and they get there easier and faster. Marines don't seem to have many strenghts. Marines have to work together and play aggressively right at the beginning and stop the Aliens from getting 3 bases. If Aliens get 3 bases it's usually GG. Aliens don't need as much resources for teching and upgrading as the Marines so the Alien commander will start spamming Onoses.
<u><b><!--coloro:#4169E1--><span style="color:#4169E1"><!--/coloro-->New tech for the Marines (these are just the basic ideas)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b></u>
-Extended Clips
Increases all weapons' clip sizes by 20%. Is researched from the Arms Lab.
-Ammo Regen
Nanites manufacture ammunition through nano-replication. Slowly regenerates ammo like Regeneration health. Is researched from the Arms Lab.
-Reinforced buildings
Increases all buildings' health and armor by 20%. Is researched from the Robotics Factory.
-Weapon Cooling System
Allows the Exosuites to shoot longer without overheating. Is researched from the Prototype Lab.
-Grenades
Like Mines, Grenades are bought from the Armory and use the 4 slot. Marines can only hold either Mines or one type of grenades. All Grenades cost 15 resources.
--Frag Grenades
Like the Mines, Frag Grenades do AoE damage when they explode. Frag Grenades have larger AoE than Mines but do less burst damage. Aliens in the AoE will take damage and bleed(DOT) for a couple of seconds.
--Gas Grenades
Gas Grenade creates a cloud of Gas poisonous to Aliens. Aliens staying in the gas will take damage. The longer they stay in the gas cloud the more damage they take. Gorges can remove the gas cloud by "healing". Lasts longer than Lerks' Spores but do less damage.
--Stun Grenades
Stuns the Aliens in a small area for a couple of seconds (similar to Onos' stomp). Onoses can't be stunned.
Comments
Aliens seem overpowered. I've heard many other players say the same.
Aliens vs Marines
Aliens have much more mobility than Marines. Aliens get their mobility basically for free and very fast. Skulks
are fast even without upgrades but even faster with Celerity.
- and so they should be its bad enough skulks are the size of a house in ns2
The only way for Marines to move around the map fast
is by using the Phase Gates which are quite expensive especially at the beginning. Getting the first Phase Gates
cost 70 resources (armory+observatory+PG tech+2 PGs). After that it's 15 for each PG which is ok. I think the
Phase Gate tech should cost 10 resources.
Aliens are much better at defending. Gorges can block doors for free and build 3 Hydras for 9 resources and Whips
cost 15 resources. Sentries are absolutely horrible. They're expensive, very fragile and do very little damage.
- Marines are substantiality better at sieging than aliens due to arcs
Getting the first 3 Sentries costs 40 resources (robo+batter+3 sentries). After that it's 25 resources for 3
Sentries. For that price Sentries health should be doubled and damage increased by 50%. Sentry Battery's health
should be tripled or quadrupled.
- Or you could just ignore sentries like any competent commander would
Getting an Onos costs 75 resources. Getting the first Double Minigun Exo costs 180 resources (2 bases, proto, tech
and DMExo).
- If you're basing that off pres onos that is a very long wait for an onos (15-20minutes?). Unlike a tres onos which is around 145 res ( 2nd hive, egg drop and 2 upgrades)
After that it's 75 for each. The "normal" exos cost 40 or 50 resources and are worthless. Exos need to
stay in a safe distance from the Aliens so the melee attack isn't very useful and the single minigun overheats
very quickly.
- let go of mouse2 sometimes to counter the overheating
I might buy a normal exo sometimes if it cost 35 resources. That would be as expensive as Jetpack +
Flamethrower so I think it would be reasonable. Jetpack+Flamer might still be a better deal though. Would probably
depend on situation.
- jetpack+anyweapon is better than exo
Mines are not worth 15 resources. It takes 2 mines to kill a Skulk. That's 10 resources for killing a skulk that
will respawn in a couple of seconds. If one Mine killed a Skulk and 2 Mines a Gorge (10 res for 10 res) they would
be worth it. Mines are also hard countered by Bile Bomb. At the moment it's better to save the resources for other
weapons or Prototype Lab stuff.
- It takes 1 mine (without cara) to kill a skulk and aliens normally spawn over 15 seconds compared to 7 seconds like marines
Bile Bomb does way too much damage to buildings.
- something has to break marine turtle
Aliens feel stronger in every way. Researching tech and getting upgrades is more expensive and slower for Marines
than for Aliens. Aliens have stronger late game and they get there easier and faster. Marines don't seem to have
many strengths. Marines have to work together and play aggressively right at the beginning and stop the Aliens
from getting 3 bases. If Aliens get 3 bases it's usually GG. Aliens don't need as much resources for teching and
upgrading as the Marines so the Alien commander will start spamming Onoses.
-Woah man marines having to use team work what is this magic why can't I just solo everything. If marines get 3 bases as well its gg anyway so it works both ways.
New tech for the Marines (these are just the basic ideas)
-Extended Clips
Increases all weapons' clip sizes by 20%. Is researched from the Arms Lab.
-Ammo Regen
Nanites manufacture ammunition through nano-replication. Slowly regenerates ammo like Regeneration health. Is
researched from the Arms Lab.
-Reinforced buildings
Increases all buildings' health and armor by 20%. Is researched from the Robotics Factory.
- pretty sure you can nanoshield all the structures
-Weapon Cooling System
Allows the Exosuites to shoot longer without overheating. Is researched from the Prototype Lab.
-Grenades
Like Mines, Grenades are bought from the Armory and use the 4 slot. Marines can only hold either Mines or one type
of grenades. All Grenades cost 15 resources.
--Frag Grenade
Like the Mines, Frag Grenades do AoE damage when they explode. Frag Grenades have larger AoE than Mines but do
less burst damage. Aliens in the AoE will take damage and bleed(DOT) for a couple of seconds.
- You have a grenade launcher for a reason
--Gas Grenade
Gas Grenade creates a cloud of Gas poisonous to Aliens. Aliens staying in the gas will take damage. The longer
they stay in the gas cloud the more damage they take. Gorges can remove the gas cloud by "healing". Lasts longer
than Lerks' Spores but do less damage.
- Not sure how this would work since aliens would be immune to human poisons
--Stun
Stuns the Aliens in a small area for a couple of seconds (similar to Onos' stomp). Onoses can't be stunned.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nanites manufacture ammunition through nano-replication. Slowly regenerates ammo like Regeneration health. Is researched from the Arms Lab.
-Reinforced buildings
Increases all buildings' health and armor by 20%. Is researched from the Robotics Factory.
-Grenades
Like Mines, Grenades are bought from the Armory and use the 4 slot. Marines can only hold either Mines or one type of grenades. All Grenades cost 15 resources.
--Frag Grenades
Like the Mines, Frag Grenades do AoE damage when they explode. Frag Grenades have larger AoE than Mines but do less burst damage. Aliens in the AoE will take damage and bleed(DOT) for a couple of seconds.
--Gas Grenades
Gas Grenade creates a cloud of Gas poisonous to Aliens. Aliens staying in the gas will take damage. The longer they stay in the gas cloud the more damage they take. Gorges can remove the gas cloud by "healing". Lasts longer than Lerks' Spores but do less damage.
--Stun Grenades
Stuns the Aliens in a small area for a couple of seconds (similar to Onos' stomp). Onoses can't be stunned.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ammo regen is pretty pointless since the commander can refill your ammo fully by dropping you a single ammo pack. unless you mean it regenerates your ammo without you having to reload, then i think a simple "larger magazine" upgrade would suffice.
i think increasing the health and armor of the buildings is generally not a good idea. it encourages turtling and thus prolongs the game. if you're talking about increasing health and armor temporary for a short duration, nano armor does that very well. i do however agree that turrets need a buff durability-wise.
too many grenades there, i think. cool ideas, but would open up a new bag of balance problems. i think a simple AOE damage weapon (with no extra effects like DoT) would suffice, like back in ns1.
i think the rest of your ideas are fine (some are pretty good ideas actually), though i have no idea what kind of effect they would have on the game.
good luck.
What is the purpose of quoting a whole lengthy post without a comment?
Phase tech
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens are much better at defending<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No
Not to ###### on your post, but it is mainly just gripping with current game mechanics. Gorges are <i>too</i> good against buildings? That's their job. Sentries aren't the overpowered cluster-###### they were in NS1? Good.
The argument of exos vs onos should be stopped. A few players with exos, and a few with jetpack / shotties is devastating. Exos are great for defensive purposes in my opinion, and jetpacks can snipe a hive down in literally seconds.
Stopped reading there.
You should play aliens before making such daft statements and purposing sweeping game changes.
Oh well, my bad, but it is kind of difficult to pick out what <i>you</i> wrote since it is all in one quote. I guess that are the quote tags for (yes I do use them).
You should play aliens before making such daft statements and purposing sweeping game changes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol'd