reasons why ns1 > ns2
Amb
Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168647Members, Reinforced - Supporter
Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168647Members, Reinforced - Supporter
and no, this isn't nostalgia, so save it.
<b>1. Better art direction. </b>
ns1 had a better overall art direction, whether it was the sound, the music, the ambience, the weapon/creature design.
<b>2. The two teams' mechanics were really different</b>
sure the 2 teams play differently in ns2 as well but back in ns1 they were REALLY different. in ns1 marines had comm, alien had no comm; marine had team res and no individual res, aliens had individual res and no team res; marines could build comm chair anywhere on the map and didn't need tech points, alien hives were in three fixed locations; marine structures had to be placed near the comm chair (except turrets/siege and PG), alien chambers could be built anywhere on the map by a gorge. Today, both team have comms, both team have team/individual res, comm chair and hive are identical, it's all about getting that next tech point.
<b>3. No performance issues</b>
I don't think anyone back in 2003 had problems running a HL1 game
<b>4. The game was balanced</b>
ns1 was very balanced after three major revisions
<b>5. huge variety of maps</b>
ns1 had close to 20 official ns maps, ns2 has how many?
<b>6. co mode</b>
many argued that co killed ns1, but at least it kept all the call of duty retards out of our ns games.
<b>1. Better art direction. </b>
ns1 had a better overall art direction, whether it was the sound, the music, the ambience, the weapon/creature design.
<b>2. The two teams' mechanics were really different</b>
sure the 2 teams play differently in ns2 as well but back in ns1 they were REALLY different. in ns1 marines had comm, alien had no comm; marine had team res and no individual res, aliens had individual res and no team res; marines could build comm chair anywhere on the map and didn't need tech points, alien hives were in three fixed locations; marine structures had to be placed near the comm chair (except turrets/siege and PG), alien chambers could be built anywhere on the map by a gorge. Today, both team have comms, both team have team/individual res, comm chair and hive are identical, it's all about getting that next tech point.
<b>3. No performance issues</b>
I don't think anyone back in 2003 had problems running a HL1 game
<b>4. The game was balanced</b>
ns1 was very balanced after three major revisions
<b>5. huge variety of maps</b>
ns1 had close to 20 official ns maps, ns2 has how many?
<b>6. co mode</b>
many argued that co killed ns1, but at least it kept all the call of duty retards out of our ns games.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I liked the old harvesters in NS:1 <i>(maybe the fade because it looked darker)</i> . . . everything else <u>is a better art direction</u> IMO
<i>(also as this is my weakest argument I'll reinforce it by saying that you can swing over to the Steam Workshop at anytime if you want to change the art direction)</i>
You can't judge 4 or 5 yet for reasons Xarius mentioned
There is a combat mod out for NS:2 and it has a regular following
If you thought the original NS:1 ran good then clearly you must be a fan of HPB
300 ping was a good day in that mod. . . most servers were 450+
Also game mechanics aren't fully developed yet. . . that much should be obvious if you've seen what features got pulled last minute or are still on the design block
<i>Wow that's every point debunked. . . guess this thread is toast</i>
-
NS1 had amazing issue problems until v2. That being said, once it was fixed and v2 came, NS1 was very nice yes.
NS2 mapping forums don't have many good map makers like NS1 did. I do not like the remake of veil by some random which takes it from being a cool mars like station to being a dirty sewage plant of mashed up props.
Some good insight from a NS1 player, I think balance can't be done until performance though. I am sure you will agree as it worked that way with NS1 too.
It would be nice to see UWE introduce another game mode. It doesn't necessarily have to be combat mode from NS1. What TF2 did was introduce payload mode after launch, which really pulled me back in. Payload matches felt more friendly and less demanding, which meant I could sort of screw around when I wanted without being a detriment to the team.
Combat mode in NS1 felt similar. On some maps, you're pushing an imaginary cart toward the enemy's hive or command chair. The conflict between the two teams would gradually move forward toward the enemy base, or the enemy would push you back into your own base. On other maps, the fighting would take place at either team's base or in a middle ground.
I hope UWE considers adding more game modes.
there are some mods out there, like combat mod, classic mod etc.
-the game mechanics are outright clean and mainstream but bringing teamwork to another level
-no performance issues
-fps and rts hybrid, quite new in that time.
-action packed
-free and you really need to have hl1
-maps are clean without a lot of fancy eyecandies and bull######s, enhancing competitiveness.
i dun mention balance.
Take attack/defense mode from TF2, for example. Lets say marines are on attack and aliens on defense. Replace control points with hives. Once a hive is dead, it can't be rebuilt. When the final hive is dead, marines win. Or when time runs out, aliens win.
<!--quoteo(post=2042362:date=Dec 9 2012, 06:28 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Dec 9 2012, 06:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>1. Better art direction. </b>
ns1 had a better overall art direction, whether it was the sound, the music, the ambience, the weapon/creature design.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS1 graphics were terrible and maps had no detail. Music has been great in both games. The ambiance in NS1 was fostered by longer, slower paced games and the music. NS2 has taken a different direction in both.
<!--quoteo(post=2042362:date=Dec 9 2012, 06:28 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Dec 9 2012, 06:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>2. The two teams' mechanics were really different</b>
sure the 2 teams play differently in ns2 as well but back in ns1 they were REALLY different. in ns1 marines had comm, alien had no comm; marine had team res and no individual res, aliens had individual res and no team res; marines could build comm chair anywhere on the map and didn't need tech points, alien hives were in three fixed locations; marine structures had to be placed near the comm chair (except turrets/siege and PG), alien chambers could be built anywhere on the map by a gorge. Today, both team have comms, both team have team/individual res, comm chair and hive are identical, it's all about getting that next tech point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All these changes were done to address major issues that came in NS1. Gorge forts that would not die after game ended, imbalance as player numbers increased, lack of depth in alien tech tree, marines building bases in bizarre places, etc. The two sides still play extremely differently.
<!--quoteo(post=2042362:date=Dec 9 2012, 06:28 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Dec 9 2012, 06:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>3. No performance issues</b>
I don't think anyone back in 2003 had problems running a HL1 game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After several years of the HL1 engine being around it was not going to challenge anything.
<!--quoteo(post=2042362:date=Dec 9 2012, 06:28 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Dec 9 2012, 06:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>4. The game was balanced</b>
ns1 was very balanced after three major revisions<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After several years.
<!--quoteo(post=2042362:date=Dec 9 2012, 06:28 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Dec 9 2012, 06:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>5. huge variety of maps</b>
ns1 had close to 20 official ns maps, ns2 has how many?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After several years.
<!--quoteo(post=2042362:date=Dec 9 2012, 06:28 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Dec 9 2012, 06:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>6. co mode</b>
many argued that co killed ns1, but at least it kept all the call of duty retards out of our ns games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally I got into NS1 through combat, so its definitely not been the death of NS. It was a stepping stone.
NS2 has a combat mod, and its extremely good although maps are still being worked on. Go try it.
<!--quoteo(post=2042385:date=Dec 9 2012, 07:37 AM:name=Lucian)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lucian @ Dec 9 2012, 07:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042385"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Take attack/defense mode from TF2, for example. Lets say marines are on attack and aliens on defense. Replace control points with hives. Once a hive is dead, it can't be rebuilt. When the final hive is dead, marines win. Or when time runs out, aliens win.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Building on this, how about as you said some 'assault' mode.
<ul><li>1 team defends, other attacks.</li><li>Attacking team has no commander or structures.</li><li>Defending team starts with command chair and 100 tres (?) per wave.</li><li>No respawns until wave end.</li><li>Wave ends when entire team is dead, or after first kill if no one dies for 1 minute (prevent afk or trolling)</li><li>Each new wave, players are awarded res for their contribution in previous wave.</li><li>Attackers are always provided 20 pres free.</li><li>Defenders are always provided 10 pres free.</li><li>Game auto tech's up each wave, so first wave is LMG vs skulks, final wave is onos and exo's for those who saved.</li></ul>
I'm thinking like docking, have assaulting marines start on landing pad and push locker hive, or aliens start in ballcourt and push a marine base if they attacking.
I don't think anyone back in 2003 had problems running a HL1 game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Erm. The game ran horribly which was not due to the Quake2-Engine but because the servers couldn't handle all the entities at all. Even on a good rig for that time, the performance was partialy utterly bullocks and the longer the game took, the worse the performance became. I agree, that the Engine was flaweless but in no way designed to handle a game as NS1 and though the overall performance in NS2 might be worse currently, I have yet not seen a server crashing because someone was spamming sentries, chambers or cysts. In NS1 it wasn't uncommon that a game ended with a server-breakdown or that the game was by the end nearly unplayable and you could just beg the players to stop building stuff. Wisely, such a turret spam isn't possible in NS2 anymore but overall I think the server can way better handle the game that in the times of NS1.
I agree that the game is in need of masses of performance improvement but then again, that in all honesty is something I'm used to. NS1 ran poorly because the servers could handle all the input and NS2 is currently poorely optimized but at least, the game seems to cause less problems for the servers. None of these scenarios is optimal but it something I got used to when it comes to NS in general. What I currently really miss is the flawless hit-detection and overall well written netcode of HL1. Performance and netcode seem to be the biggest issues NS2 currently has, though I wouldn't agree that NS1 ran well. Running a HL1 game wasn't a bit deal back in 2003 but running NS1 definitely was. I've heard of servers who retired after they had to run NS1 for more than 6 month - burnout, you know.
They should use their own resources for a team, as a volunteer.
And i am pretty sure that nobody would do that, because most of players wanna fight and be a fade instead of a gorge and use their whole resources for a single RT and start with 0 resources.
Somebody mentions about team fortress's engineer and medic, that there are already plenty of players who love to play as a support role, but it's quite different. They also gain good things by doing that, but gorges not. Gorges even effect whole phase of the match. Map control, upgrades, hives etc by himself, so if noone gorges, the kharra will lose with no single upgrades or rts.
But what more problematic was, that it cost kind of lot to be a gorge and drop structures. To have full upgrades and 2 RTs, a team needs at least 3~5 gorges. That means there must be at least 3 players who love to volunteer, however, it's pretty hard to see those in such a big game.
So i am pretty certain with it, why UWE decided to make alien khammander and pres system, as therefore aliens can even play the game properly only with 1 guy who loves to help team/or play RTS. And he even loses no his own property(personal resources) for dropping structures, RTs. This must have helped lots of new players stay on game, instead of experiencing 9 out of 10 matches without gorges, furthur rts, upgrades and lose game and lose also any passion to play natural selection anymore.
However, i would like to see rather gorge with pres system instead of khammander. If gorges could gain seperately tres since he evolves and till he gets killed or evolve to something else, and be able to drop structures and control environments(rupture, bone wall by himself) like a boss, it would be really cool. Although then gorges will have so much responsibility, as they must heal, put defences, call specific skills, drop structures and upgrades, it will be still at least better than one khammander always has all of responsibility for whole team economies, as with gorges they can seperate the responsibility(or at least have choice).
And even a field commander with defensive ability fits really good.
<b>1. Better art direction. </b>
ns1 had a better overall art direction, whether it was the sound, the music, the ambience, the weapon/creature design.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree aside from the ambiance.
<!--quoteo(post=2042362:date=Dec 9 2012, 05:28 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Dec 9 2012, 05:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>2. The two teams' mechanics were really different</b>
sure the 2 teams play differently in ns2 as well but back in ns1 they were REALLY different. in ns1 marines had comm, alien had no comm; marine had team res and no individual res, aliens had individual res and no team res; marines could build comm chair anywhere on the map and didn't need tech points, alien hives were in three fixed locations; marine structures had to be placed near the comm chair (except turrets/siege and PG), alien chambers could be built anywhere on the map by a gorge. Today, both team have comms, both team have team/individual res, comm chair and hive are identical, it's all about getting that next tech point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For better or worse NS2 is not the same game as NS1. Luckily for those that want to play a revised NS1, xDragon has your back and is doing a great service to the community with his work. <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121482" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=121482</a>
<!--quoteo(post=2042362:date=Dec 9 2012, 05:28 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Dec 9 2012, 05:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>3. No performance issues</b>
I don't think anyone back in 2003 had problems running a HL1 game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People seem to like to selectively forget about the massive server issues NS1 had early on in its lifetime due to the amount of entities it was making GldSrc handle.
<!--quoteo(post=2042362:date=Dec 9 2012, 05:28 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Dec 9 2012, 05:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>4. The game was balanced</b>
ns1 was very balanced after three major revisions<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Key words: <b>after three major revisions</b>. To reiterate: NS2 is not the same game.
<!--quoteo(post=2042362:date=Dec 9 2012, 05:28 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Dec 9 2012, 05:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>5. huge variety of maps</b>
ns1 had close to 20 official ns maps, ns2 has how many?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At the end of its development period, yes. On 1.0 release it had seven.
<ul><li> ns_bast</li><li> ns_caged</li><li> ns_eclipse</li><li> ns_hera </li><li> ns_nancy</li><li> ns_nothing</li><li> ns_tanith</li></ul>
Fun fact about modern gaming, maps are more visually complex and take significantly more time to make. There is a reason a lot of maps that are on the workshop are still grey boxed aside from wanting to get feedback on their layouts.
<!--quoteo(post=2042362:date=Dec 9 2012, 05:28 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Dec 9 2012, 05:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>6. co mode</b>
many argued that co killed ns1, but at least it kept all the call of duty retards out of our ns games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was left to the community and the community already delivered: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119151" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=119151</a>
I don't get why anyone would play on wonga when the community looks like this - <a href="http://wongans.com/bans/" target="_blank">http://wongans.com/bans/</a>
Apparently the NS playerbase is inherently racist ... or the admin decisions are bad. This is why NS2 servers win.
When the game was first released it was rubberbanding like crazy, the maps were horrible and needed to be fixed desperately, the chambers needed to all be fixed.
Yet people complain about NS2 with the bugs it has.
NS2 on release day (though yes it had bugs) definitely did not have the same amounts of issues as NS1 had.
Do you know what made NS1 the way it was? The players and Charlie working together. I remember spending countless hours on a map with Flayra and a bunch of other players, testing for hours on end. About every hour of testing he would realize there was something to fix, would code a patch and release a new build.
Then, at that point the game was starting to get better. It was starting to all come together. Then after a while, Charlie I believe let someone else take over the code who continued to update the game and turned it into what it is today.
Give NS2 more time, it'll grow and continue to get better, just as NS1 did.
*like Wheeee's post*
is there a situation where anything from the past, valid or not, is immediately disregarded due to rosy retrospection? :P
Endless fun.
The graphics quality of the game was clearly better in NS I
Your comparing something that's been worked on prepped at the table, to something that's still hot out of the oven and not quite ready yet.
It is for people who claim, <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aunknownworlds.com+natural+selection+server+lag&hl=en&safe=off&biw=960&bih=489&sa=X&ei=LPXEUMP6C5HAiwLy8YGIDQ&ved=0CB0QpwUoBg&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A10%2F01%2F2002%2Ccd_max%3A10%2F01%2F2004&tbm=#hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min%3A10%2F01%2F2002%2Ccd_max%3A10%2F01%2F2004&sclient=psy-ab&q=site:unknownworlds.com+server+lag&oq=site:unknownworlds.com+server+lag&gs_l=serp.3...12272.13264.13.13345.10.10.0.0.0.0.166.676.8j2.10.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.7cgHFnbgH_g&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1354675689,d.cGE&fp=83f353e34ae72f11&bpcl=39650382&biw=960&bih=489" target="_blank">contrary to history</a>, that NS1 had no performance issues.