To Tf Or Not To Tf

Eater1 · December 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Are turret factories at spawn required?</div> I've commed several games already and I generally just go with a rush to the two non-occupied hives, set up phase gates and res towers, and wait for the resources to build a turret factory at the hives. Several times I've had this tactic beaten by an alien rush for base. So my question is this: should I wait to build a TF at base before sending marines out to get the hives? Considering the serious resource nerfing marines get in the new patch, commanders may no longer afford to build a TF if they want to phase rush (hell, they may not even be able to afford a phase).

Eater.

FlatlineUTD · December 2002

Building a TF at base is up to the commander.

I don't, because it costs a lot of resources that could be spent better off on something else like motion tracking, or a phase gate - even more so now due to the resource cost in 1.04.

Building the TF and turrets also costs you time that could be spent expanding early - which the marines have to do in order to stand a chance.

Anyway, Skulks just run by turrets in the main base, and Fades take them out with acid rockets, and it's not like they're stopping Onos(es?), so I really don't see the point. Your main base usually gets hit with a coordinated attack, as opposed to your forward bases which usually catch a lone skulk off guard.

SaintPeter · December 2002

I think it depends on the Map and on the location of the starting hive.

For example, in ns_nancy if the spawn hive is at the "unnamed hive", you're gonna have Aliens all over your buns for the entire start of the map. If they are in Port Engine Room, you probably won't see them 'till you get to Mess Hall or something. Maybe a couple of rushers, but not much. Same is true for ns_caged - If the spawn hive is in sewers, you'll never get a moment's peace without a TF. But if they're in Ventilation? Forgitaboutit!

It also depends on the quality of your crew - If you've got people who are willing to sit around and defend the base, and who are activly covering one another during building . . . AND are willing to camp at base for a while . . . You can probably wing it.

-----------------------------
St.Peter
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'>"Hey, those gates are Mother of Pearl" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'>

Tsungfai · December 2002

Just leave 1 or 2 marines at base as turrets for awhile. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

sekdar · December 2002

it depends... if i ever see a commander do this, i camp the area until all the marines are gone, by phase or whatever, then dine on whatever buildings are around. If there's a phase gate, all the better, i can hold down the bite key and kill marines as they spawn thru one by one <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Error404 · December 2002

If you're up against good skulks and you don't turret factory your IPs, you may aswell just quit and F4.

MasterEvilAce · December 2002

The best commanders i've seen, don't build TF's at base.
They usually expand to the hives, setup a phase gate, turret factory with just enough turrets to protect the phase/TF, and they expand more (for more nodes/other hives)

Usually, the commander will leave one person to defend the base (this works out pretty good if that's the best player on the team).. and the rest SHOULD go to waypoints.. of course there's always a bunch of people who stand around shooting at random things in base (wtf)

Seriously though... defending your base only really requires one person (on alert).. at the end of games it seems like everybody wants to defend the base... They have Heavy armor, HMGs, Welders.. a whole pack of them. STANDING IN BASE. You can't win if the marines stay in base... Granted after i yell at them to "kill s***".. they go and do it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

and guys: if a player has heavy armor.. give them a welder... if they have HMG, give them a jetpack/armor if you can.

oh-- and the better coms will almost always get out of the chair to kill (usually a 100% kill rate) the alien who is attacking (if the marines are no-where in range)

MasterEvilAce · December 2002

I only see TF's appear at base if it's a small game, or the commander wants all the marines to go to a waypoint, or to cover a vent so the aliens can't really snipe people <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

Usually, during the mid-game, if they're getting stronger upgrades, and we have resources.. it's good to protect the base, as marines defending the base might have to chase after the enemy (leaving base undefended)

--- Oh yeah, and a big tip here... DON'T build buildings close together. Splash damage will get them killed quicker than anything. Especially in the one with VENT, GEN, and SEWER, you have all of that room to build, don't build in sight of the vent (lerks can take down things quick) and don't build things in groups... it creates big blindspots, and people sometimes have a hard time moving inbetween them to get out of the base.

Archzai · December 2002

I hafta agree with everyone here who says NOT to make a TF

a TF and Turrets cost very vital RPs at the beginning of the game. Turtleing is never good, and as someone mentioned, it proves useless l8r on. I leave 2 marines at base to guard. Its not that hard really. And when they want action, i kindly ask some marines that were in the frontline to switch, sometimes, which also gives THEM a break. UNless i get those taht like to stay at base <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> which i get a lot <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> hehe

freeo · December 2002

tf and ts are mainly deterants. being primarily an alien player, if i don't see tf/ts in a marine's main base, i'll get the entire alien team to strike it. a lone marine won't be able to stop it, and even if the rest of the marine team gets back, the attack will have caused SERIOUS damage to the base.

Seraphic8X · December 2002

Anyone who says Turret Factories are needed at the main base are just ignorant.

It's that simple. No argument neccesary.

Durikkan · December 2002

If the marines build a turret factory first, versus anything above decent aliens, they will likely lose. They'll lose a lot of time in the beginning of the match.. 25+19+19+19 = 82 resources = something like 3-5 minutes. In that time, the aliens will have concentrated themselves in the marines early expansion spots, so when the marines expand, they have to use all their forces to clear a building plot to expand into, and waste a lot of time clearing their way, and fighting off skulk ambushes, while the aliens spread through the map unchecked. Marines may make it to a hive if they are lucky, while all of their budget was spent on health and turrets, and maybe some Rts. By that time, the aliens have fades, which kill off the marines hive with no contest, then their expansion with RTs that have barely paid for themselves, then their main base.
You're better off not building a TF... If they rush you and kill you in the first 4 minutes, oh well, that's better than building the TF and then spending the rest of the game fighting a losing battle where fades kill 42 marines at 2 losses.
At least, that's my thoughts on the issue.

MrPink · December 2002

i generally take a chance and dont TF, but leave 1-2 marines back to cover our spawn. if we lose our spawn, no big deal, i just set up my main base at the hive and half the time it works out better

Narfwak · December 2002

I usually get really small games on my server (sucks to be me I guess <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> ), and in those situations a TF in the main base is a blessing. However, in anything larger than a ten-person game, marines and the commander should be able to cover the spawn if doo-doo happens. As a commander, I will frequently pop out and kill aliens munching on my Precious. This won't work well if your marines are impatient idiots that want you to hold their hand all the way, as you may end up out of the console for too long at a time for them to handle.

If the main base gets attacked a lot, then you may want to place a TF as a deterrent and as an alert. Many of the main base locations are not as easily held with turrets as other locations, such as hives, so you can't really expect the turrets to hold off anything on their own; in fact, this is rather true for the entire game.

Also, do not forget the usefulness of well-placed mines. A few mines hidden at the base of an important structure can easily take a skulk by surprise. If the aliens get a second hive though, don't even bother with mines until you can destroy the second hive.

Immacolata · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Dec 30 2002, 03:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Also, do not forget the usefulness of well-placed mines. A few mines hidden at the base of an important structure can easily take a skulk by surprise. If the aliens get a second hive though, don't even bother with mines until you can destroy the second hive.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Hehe thought it would never come up. Yesterday I was shown what real mining is about. It is far cheapre than building a TF and turrets. And can be quite efficient if place properly. Mines in hand of n00bs are wasted though.

IMO turrets at spawn is an OPTION but absolutely to be avoided in the start of the game, let it come later when you have the res spare. If you are smart you put the observatory within LOS of your CC but not so close that you get eaten by the skulk when you emmit to kill it.

A few marines on sentry duty in the base at start is what it takes to pick off the eventual skulk invader. Worse is it if they rush, naturally, you need all hands to take that alive.

ShuflY · December 2002

I've never risked not putting a TF at the main base in a pub game, many times I have seen commanders not build one and it just invites a massive skulk rush once the main squad has left the base. As a commander, I have noticed that when I get a turret factory and 2 turrets up in main base, most of the skulks leave the base alone and start to focus on other areas of the map, which can be a good or bad thing. On one hand, it usually means that I can get by with no base defenders, if a skulk does wander in, I can jump out and take care of it myself. The problem is, now they are looking around the other parts of the map for action.

Usually it is a worthy trade off, since my men can at least get out the front door of the base now. I've never seen a marine team win (excluding clans) that went the whole game without putting some turrets in their main base, eventually one of the skulks reports that the base is undefended and they plan an attack because the target is so juicy.

And Seraphic8X, your comment is just about the most ignorant, closed-minded thing a person could say. If you want to voice your opinion, go for it, but it is just that, an opinion, it's not right, it's not wrong, it is just what you think. You don't need to be a jerk to get people to listen to you.

Morose · December 2002

Get a marine who can shoot. In most cases, they can kill 2-3 skulks that rush in if their only duty is to watch out for such an occurence. At least, I can... and I'm not the best shot in the world. I actually have loads of fun in the games where I'm guarding the main base. Especially when the skulks all send word that the base is "undefended" just because it doesn't have turrets. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'> Early game... the aliens often lose simply because they keep rushing to their deaths (and therefore keeping a nice long spawn queue) instead of keeping an eye on where the marines are moving to and intercepting them.

NickBlasta · December 2002

Depends on the skill of my marines, the way the skulks are attacking, and the size of my team. I don't, if I have marines to spare. Two marines guarding the base do a better job than turrets can. On the other hand, if they skulks rush together, they tend to get overwhelmed.

V_MAN · December 2002

No turret factory or turrets in spawn on a public server will cost you the game every time.

You cannot expect people you have never played with to be capable enough to guard the base (or to go off and capture a hive while people you know are good guard the base)

Your tactics have to be applied to the situation you are in. Doing something different can always catch the enemy off guard or give them the advantage depending on how good the marines are or their willingness to listen to their commander.

Drew · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([DA]CaptMainwaring @ Dec 30 2002, 11:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>No turret factory or turrets in spawn on a public server will cost you the game every time.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
every time eh?

you must not play much ns....

BlueGhost · December 2002

My personal method is no turrets at spawn then when/if everybody gets totalled by the alien rush I use distress beacon to save the base.

When you've captured two hives (which takes very little time if the aliens are attacking your main base not holding the hives).

THEN you can place turrets to your harts content.

in 1.03 its cheaper to use several distress beacons than to have a TF and enough turrets to be usefull.

BlueGhost

To Tf Or Not To Tf

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