One major thing I think people are missing that could really help marines out is giving them a viable base defense.
The current Sentry guns are just awful. They have low damage, low health, can't aim well, and are vulnerable to BOTH their battery and the power node. (Seriously why have Sentry Guns be controlled by a battery, if they ALSO need the power node!? WTF does the Battery even do then!?)
I'm ok with Marines only being able to build 3 per room to prevent spamming, but marines need a viable base defense or they will always be handicapped.
NS1 allowed marines to defend areas they won. No one wants to play a game where they spend a ton of time and effort to take an important room and then hive NOTHING to help them hold it.
It's like Vietnam and capturing/recapturing hills all the time. Sad and Hopeless.
<!--quoteo(post=2039039:date=Dec 2 2012, 09:45 PM:name=beyond.wudge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (beyond.wudge @ Dec 2 2012, 09:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2039039"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unkind, you are just complaining.
This post reads like a "I can't win so *vomit vomit @ UWE*"
Stop whining and work out the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
99% sure i'm better than you, and i win almost every game, dawg. I have plenty of personal skill. I just happen to realize this game's problems and issues. Why don't you stop trying to be a psychic and keep your day job?
<!--quoteo(post=2038750:date=Dec 2 2012, 05:11 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Dec 2 2012, 05:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You may want to rethink your statement, do the math. Maxed out upgrades is more expensive than marine weapon/armour upgrades overall. (Crag/Shift/Shade research cost on hive, structure cost + actual upgrade cost, not to mention it's a lot more fragile and not nearly as strong as A or W 3)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>For reference, Resource Towers give 10 tres / minute</b>
Arms Lab: 20 + 30 + 50 + 70 = <u>170 team resources over 10 minutes</u>, assuming each upgrade is started immediately, and there is only 1 arms lab.
Two arms labs will cost <u>190 tres over 5 minutes</u>
Aliens Evolution: 55 (Crag) + 50 (Shift) + 35 (Shade) + 125 (Hives) = <u>265 tres over ~10 min</u>, assuming only one hive / upgrade is being built at a time. The timing can be quickened considerably, due to hives / upgrades being able to be built independently of one another.
The Khammander may decide to only research one upgrade per hive. Single upgrades on 3 hives total <u>195 tres.</u>
While it is cheaper to get 3/3 LMG marines than it is to get 3-hive skulks, aliens don't have to spend tres to research higher life-forms where as marines must upgrade to shotguns, jetpacks, etc. I would argue that it is easier to kill a single arms lab than it is to kill multiple upgrade chambers, but this really depends on the coordination of both teams.
I also agree with some of these comments, but consider:
For being such a small developer group and accomplishing what they have is impressive. They have built this from the ground up. This game is amazing. Period. Yes, there are performance issues....they are being worked on. Yes, there are balance issues....they are being worked on. You cannot expect change overnight.
Think of it this way; these guys have poured themselves into this game over the last 6 or so years (and several years before that in NS1). This is their baby. I guarantee they won't settle for mediocrity and leave the game as-is. Compare where the game is now over where it was in the first playable beta build.
Be patient, expect improvements....they will come.
Like kast alluded to, alot of us have been on a journey startng in 2002. Welcome aboard, I'm pleased to tell you there is never going to be another stop.
I certainly don't agree with all your points, but I agree with some of them.
We are continuing work on performance and general compatibility problems and bugs. This is our #1 priority at the moment. We are also trying to find and fix the hit-reg problem. It's been hard to isolate, but as soon as we can, we should be able to fix it.
Alien vision will be revamped, although not sure when. We tried to get this in for v1.0 but it slipped through. We're fixing the problem with Gorge spit.
Balance work will continue forever. We've been working on the Fade survivability (and Lerk too), but I think he's in a decent spot right now. But it wouldn't surprise me if he needs more help soonish. The GL firing radius is a bit off (affects more than it looks like), but I've been hesitant to change that up until now, maybe now's the time.
If the game is linear, then I would say that's a general balance problem, which will continue to improve with each patch. I don't agree with your other points.
Nice post, if they would fix most of those things I don't think I'd really have any complaints. Really I just want gorges to be more fun/versatile, fades to not die to 1 shotgunner, and lerks to be more viable late game. I kind of like macs and drifters, though.
<!--quoteo(post=2039422:date=Dec 3 2012, 03:24 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Dec 3 2012, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2039422"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We've been working on the Fade survivability (and Lerk too), but I think he's in a decent spot right now. But it wouldn't surprise me if he needs more help soonish.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damn, I guess I should probably take a break for a couple of months then. I'm getting so tired of the late game onos swarm and unless lerks and fades are buffed I don't see that changing. It's nice to hear a response, though.
<!--quoteo(post=2039422:date=Dec 3 2012, 04:24 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Dec 3 2012, 04:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2039422"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I certainly don't agree with all your points, but I agree with some of them.
We are continuing work on performance and general compatibility problems and bugs. This is our #1 priority at the moment. We are also trying to find and fix the hit-reg problem. It's been hard to isolate, but as soon as we can, we should be able to fix it.
Alien vision will be revamped, although not sure when. We tried to get this in for v1.0 but it slipped through. We're fixing the problem with Gorge spit.
Balance work will continue forever. We've been working on the Fade survivability (and Lerk too), but I think he's in a decent spot right now. But it wouldn't surprise me if he needs more help soonish. The GL firing radius is a bit off (affects more than it looks like), but I've been hesitant to change that up until now, maybe now's the time.
If the game is linear, then I would say that's a general balance problem, which will continue to improve with each patch. I don't agree with your other points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Appreciate the post, I really like your team and you seem like a good guy. Performance/hitreg are by far the most important issues and it's great to hear they'll be improved.
<!--quoteo(post=2039422:date=Dec 3 2012, 10:24 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Dec 3 2012, 10:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2039422"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I certainly don't agree with all your points, but I agree with some of them.
We are continuing work on performance and general compatibility problems and bugs. This is our #1 priority at the moment. We are also trying to find and fix the hit-reg problem. It's been hard to isolate, but as soon as we can, we should be able to fix it.
Alien vision will be revamped, although not sure when. We tried to get this in for v1.0 but it slipped through. We're fixing the problem with Gorge spit.
Balance work will continue forever. We've been working on the Fade survivability (and Lerk too), but I think he's in a decent spot right now. But it wouldn't surprise me if he needs more help soonish. The GL firing radius is a bit off (affects more than it looks like), but I've been hesitant to change that up until now, maybe now's the time.
If the game is linear, then I would say that's a general balance problem, which will continue to improve with each patch. I don't agree with your other points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All stuff you have said pre-1.0 forever too. Actions speak louder than words. Do it.
<!--quoteo(post=2039422:date=Dec 3 2012, 09:24 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Dec 3 2012, 09:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2039422"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't agree with your other points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Certainly some stuff is kind of tricky and time consuming to answer in any direct way, but I think it would still be great if you wrote something on why you disagree also.
I wanted to add that I think another problem is that NS2 is far too static. Location importance is now pre-determined. In NS1, as the game progressed, "important" locations of where to hold were dynamic and changing as the game progresses. For example, even a mere hallway and holding that location would be super important and sometimes even important enough to relocate to that location for the marines. That would shift the direction of the map and make every game interesting.
In NS2, everyone is after the SAME locations (tech points) and they are locked down to only build there. It's just stale a boring. Marines should have never been locked down to tech points. That should have been an alien only thing. Aliens should be progressively static (and by that I mean expanding as a whole all around while concentrating on hive locations) while the marines should respond to such a massive threat in a very dynamic way. It sparks creativity and fun. NS1 was more about the marine team coming in as an alien response. In NS2, all it is is a tech boom race as both sides are pretty much the same outside of combat mechanics. They all want the same things, they all expand the same way and they all control the same areas.
Tell me...have you once ever felt that you were a marine team coming to save the day and clean up an alien threat, or does the game just feel like a generic team vs team with both teams having the same goal methodology? Take tech points, save up res, tech boom and win.
<!--quoteo(post=2040420:date=Dec 5 2012, 05:43 PM:name=runner)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (runner @ Dec 5 2012, 05:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040420"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All stuff you have said pre-1.0 forever too. Actions speak louder than words. Do it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This, the game should not have been released with performance like this
<!--quoteo(post=2040420:date=Dec 5 2012, 05:43 PM:name=runner)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (runner @ Dec 5 2012, 05:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040420"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All stuff you have said pre-1.0 forever too. Actions speak louder than words. Do it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2040438:date=Dec 5 2012, 06:40 PM:name=RobustPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobustPenguin @ Dec 5 2012, 06:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040438"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This, the game should not have been released with performance like this<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actions speak louder than whiny forum posts, you two should have invested in ns2 so uwe could hire more programmers.
<!--quoteo(post=2040455:date=Dec 5 2012, 08:07 PM:name=DanielD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DanielD @ Dec 5 2012, 08:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040455"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actions speak louder than whiny forum posts, you two should have invested in ns2 so uwe could hire more programmers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They sent NS2HD all over the world to do "promo lans" and have fun.
<!--quoteo(post=2040455:date=Dec 5 2012, 07:07 PM:name=DanielD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DanielD @ Dec 5 2012, 07:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040455"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actions speak louder than whiny forum posts, you two should have invested in ns2 so uwe could hire more programmers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Did...
Did you just <b>blame the customers</b> for the game being released in a poor state?
<!--quoteo(post=2038536:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. <u>Performance</u> This game runs like crap. There is no denying it. A twitchy FPS game needs all the fps it can get, not fluffly green moss. It also crashes for many people, it also crashes when you alt tab. This is pretty bad for a game that's supposed to be out of beta. When people need capture cards to stream on i7s and geforce 670s you know there's a problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it does run like crap, but I disagree. New games usually don't run well on 2 year old systems. Alien camo/stealth is a primary aspect of the game. It should throw off marines aim without an option to dumb it down. This reminds me of the easy-hard slider in Oblivion...so lame.
<!--quoteo(post=2038536:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. <u>Linear Gameplay</u> Gameplay gets stale pretty fast, especially late game. You start w/skulks probably get cara/celerity/camo for a bit, then play for map control a bit while waiting for one of three different units, unless you went gorge, which almost nobody does because it's really not very fun. On marine you do the same thing, only you have to build stuff, which is tedious, then it's whack-a-mole w/the skulks on your RTs for a while. The only direct combat weapon upgrade is the shotgun. Grenade Launcher is effective, but bulky and not satisfying to use. Flamethrower is boring by design. And in the end you're either an EXO or a jetpacker. There's no reason to stay on foot. Every game the tech is the same by end game, which brings me to my next point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Reason to stay on foot: no pres. But why stay on foot when it's end game? End the damn round and you'll be on foot again the next round.
<!--quoteo(post=2038536:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. <u>Hit reg</u> The hit registration for this patch is currently abysmal. It's so bad I can't even play because on alien it feels unfair and on marine it just sucks. Seriously this is the primary reason marines are currently losing so much. They can't shoot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to aim ahead of targets, similar to older games without good lag compensation. I think this is due to performance (drop in FPS) rather than netcode, but not sure. Server performance seems alright, clients not so much.
<!--quoteo(post=2038536:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->6. <u>Gorge</u> Gorge isn't particularly useful other than healing up hives and making people waste time shooting well placed hydras, and bile bomb late game (which is great, and fits well on gorge). It's direct combat ability is far too weak. The spit should be able to kill marines easier, aimed correctly, but it's hit reg/animation/fact you can't see it without alien vision/slow projectile speed makes the gorge ultra vulnerable. The heal spray self heal is probably too weak now given that it was nerfed way too hard early beta because people couldn't aim due to 6 fps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gorge isn't fun unless played as a support unit for the front line. Some ideas....a burrow ability to hide underground, spit blinds/slows marines, grappling hook, lerk spike/spike shotgun/spike caltrops (slows marines), gas bombs/sprayers, mind control. Hell, lerk gas should heal aliens and gorge heal should be converted to lerk gas. Actually just replace Gorge with Kirby.
<!--quoteo(post=2038536:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->8. <u>Alien evolutions</u> Don't really do too much compared to a1 a2 a3 on marines. Silence feels like it should be a passive for making a shade hive or something. Regen/cara meh, they aren't particulary interesting, regen is fun but what unit can really use it well. Lerk sort of? Fade dies way too fast Onos maybe but eh cara probably just as good/better (i'd always go cara). Cara itself is a flat armor upgrade that doesn't scale. Not really all that cool. Celerity only works out of combat, super meh, though it's decent. Not fun or well thought-out or interesting. Camo is good, when moving with it aliens shouldn't be slightly (very) visible though so on marines you aren't 100% reliant on your commander to not get ######. Pubs don't typically move together. Adrenaline is the worst offender of poorly thought-out non-intuitive abilities. It's a flat increase in energy. Really? Can't come up with something a BIT more interesting? Like swing a bit faster, energy regen a bit faster, energy regen out of combat faster, energy regen in combat faster? SOMETHING? Also 6 upgrades period kinds sucks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, but leave cloaking alone.
<!--quoteo(post=2038536:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->9. <u>Lifeform upgrades</u> Leap is useful, it's also not really that different from jumping, it feels gimped, slow and weak. It should be more obvious that you're doing something. Doing a bit of damage on contact would be a fun thing to do, and set it up so a leap + 2 bite combo killed a a2 marine or something?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, what if a leap-bite dealt way more damage? Leapers are not that difficult to avoid, but in waves they should pose a serious threat rather than being a laughable case of fly swatting with shotties. It would give skulks a counter to the point-blank-one-hit-wonder-shotty.
<!--quoteo(post=2038536:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->10. <u>Balance</u> Stuff that's really obvious and needs to be changed. Fade survivability needs a buff, it goes down too fast for 50 res, not even debatable. GLs do too much damage to too many units when spammed at your own guys, something should be done to prevent that. GLs themselves seem to fire delayed grenades, terrible. The Onos gore nerf was perfect, GJ UW. Change stomp into something not so lame though, for both the onos and the marines. Vortex, take it out of the game and give the fade something interesting and useful. Gorge spit is too ineffective. Gorge itself could use more buildings or more abilities or just something to make it more fun to use i dunno.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You missed the worst part...grenades shoot out of a make-believe gun barrel that is about 5 feet to the right of your actual gun model, making all your nades bounce off the nearest corner back into your face. What the?
<!--quoteo(post=2044713:date=Dec 13 2012, 11:14 AM:name=sloe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sloe @ Dec 13 2012, 11:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044713"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You missed the worst part...grenades shoot out of a make-believe gun barrel that is about 5 feet to the right of your actual gun model, making all your nades bounce off the nearest corner back into your face. What the?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a tf2 demoman player, the grenades seem to have the velocity of glacial jelly. Feels terribly awkward.
<!--quoteo(post=2044726:date=Dec 12 2012, 08:07 PM:name=hus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hus @ Dec 12 2012, 08:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044726"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As a tf2 demoman player, the grenades seem to have the velocity of glacial jelly. Feels terribly awkward.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can't expect every game's GL to perform like TF2s.
That being said, while there is some issue with the trace scan hitreg, the projectile hitreg in NS2 is just REALLY bad. At some point they really need to stop masking that problem and actually address it.
<!--quoteo(post=2044758:date=Dec 12 2012, 10:38 PM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Dec 12 2012, 10:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2's biggest prolem, in a nutshell:
an RTS game marketed as a team deathmatch based FPS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game has it's problems, that's for sure. But I don't know how you could say it's been marketed as a team deathmatch based FPS. If anything, UWE have been hammering on the RTS and teamwork aspects as much as possible when talking about NS2.
Geez, I got i5-3570k @3.8ghz, and Nvidia GTX 680, and while it's smooth most of the game, I actually can notice a slowdown in a full 16 player beacon, gas, bile bombs, grenade marine base. No game has ever slowed my computer down to the point where I can notice (under 60fps), not even Crysis, this game is the new Crysis :)
But seroiusly, this game is very fun, it just needs fixing! With your new money from retail release, now you can fix hopefully soon :) Gorge spit reg, Fade shadowstep and blink too similar, Fade low health is fine but he tickles people instead of one focus ninja strike, shotgun spread too tight, bile too strong, IMO :)
Comments
This post reads like a "I can't win so *vomit vomit @ UWE*"
Stop whining and work out the game.
One major thing I think people are missing that could really help marines out is giving them a viable base defense.
The current Sentry guns are just awful. They have low damage, low health, can't aim well, and are vulnerable to BOTH their battery and the power node. (Seriously why have Sentry Guns be controlled by a battery, if they ALSO need the power node!? WTF does the Battery even do then!?)
I'm ok with Marines only being able to build 3 per room to prevent spamming, but marines need a viable base defense or they will always be handicapped.
NS1 allowed marines to defend areas they won. No one wants to play a game where they spend a ton of time and effort to take an important room and then hive NOTHING to help them hold it.
It's like Vietnam and capturing/recapturing hills all the time. Sad and Hopeless.
This post reads like a "I can't win so *vomit vomit @ UWE*"
Stop whining and work out the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
99% sure i'm better than you, and i win almost every game, dawg. I have plenty of personal skill. I just happen to realize this game's problems and issues. Why don't you stop trying to be a psychic and keep your day job?
<b>For reference, Resource Towers give 10 tres / minute</b>
Arms Lab: 20 + 30 + 50 + 70 = <u>170 team resources over 10 minutes</u>, assuming each upgrade is started immediately, and there is only 1 arms lab.
Two arms labs will cost <u>190 tres over 5 minutes</u>
Aliens Evolution: 55 (Crag) + 50 (Shift) + 35 (Shade) + 125 (Hives) = <u>265 tres over ~10 min</u>, assuming only one hive / upgrade is being built at a time. The timing can be quickened considerably, due to hives / upgrades being able to be built independently of one another.
The Khammander may decide to only research one upgrade per hive. Single upgrades on 3 hives total <u>195 tres.</u>
While it is cheaper to get 3/3 LMG marines than it is to get 3-hive skulks, aliens don't have to spend tres to research higher life-forms where as marines must upgrade to shotguns, jetpacks, etc. I would argue that it is easier to kill a single arms lab than it is to kill multiple upgrade chambers, but this really depends on the coordination of both teams.
For being such a small developer group and accomplishing what they have is impressive. They have built this from the ground up. This game is amazing. Period. Yes, there are performance issues....they are being worked on. Yes, there are balance issues....they are being worked on. You cannot expect change overnight.
Think of it this way; these guys have poured themselves into this game over the last 6 or so years (and several years before that in NS1). This is their baby. I guarantee they won't settle for mediocrity and leave the game as-is. Compare where the game is now over where it was in the first playable beta build.
Be patient, expect improvements....they will come.
We are continuing work on performance and general compatibility problems and bugs. This is our #1 priority at the moment. We are also trying to find and fix the hit-reg problem. It's been hard to isolate, but as soon as we can, we should be able to fix it.
Alien vision will be revamped, although not sure when. We tried to get this in for v1.0 but it slipped through. We're fixing the problem with Gorge spit.
Balance work will continue forever. We've been working on the Fade survivability (and Lerk too), but I think he's in a decent spot right now. But it wouldn't surprise me if he needs more help soonish. The GL firing radius is a bit off (affects more than it looks like), but I've been hesitant to change that up until now, maybe now's the time.
If the game is linear, then I would say that's a general balance problem, which will continue to improve with each patch. I don't agree with your other points.
<!--quoteo(post=2039422:date=Dec 3 2012, 03:24 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Dec 3 2012, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2039422"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We've been working on the Fade survivability (and Lerk too), but I think he's in a decent spot right now. But it wouldn't surprise me if he needs more help soonish.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damn, I guess I should probably take a break for a couple of months then. I'm getting so tired of the late game onos swarm and unless lerks and fades are buffed I don't see that changing. It's nice to hear a response, though.
We are continuing work on performance and general compatibility problems and bugs. This is our #1 priority at the moment. We are also trying to find and fix the hit-reg problem. It's been hard to isolate, but as soon as we can, we should be able to fix it.
Alien vision will be revamped, although not sure when. We tried to get this in for v1.0 but it slipped through. We're fixing the problem with Gorge spit.
Balance work will continue forever. We've been working on the Fade survivability (and Lerk too), but I think he's in a decent spot right now. But it wouldn't surprise me if he needs more help soonish. The GL firing radius is a bit off (affects more than it looks like), but I've been hesitant to change that up until now, maybe now's the time.
If the game is linear, then I would say that's a general balance problem, which will continue to improve with each patch. I don't agree with your other points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Appreciate the post, I really like your team and you seem like a good guy. Performance/hitreg are by far the most important issues and it's great to hear they'll be improved.
We are continuing work on performance and general compatibility problems and bugs. This is our #1 priority at the moment. We are also trying to find and fix the hit-reg problem. It's been hard to isolate, but as soon as we can, we should be able to fix it.
Alien vision will be revamped, although not sure when. We tried to get this in for v1.0 but it slipped through. We're fixing the problem with Gorge spit.
Balance work will continue forever. We've been working on the Fade survivability (and Lerk too), but I think he's in a decent spot right now. But it wouldn't surprise me if he needs more help soonish. The GL firing radius is a bit off (affects more than it looks like), but I've been hesitant to change that up until now, maybe now's the time.
If the game is linear, then I would say that's a general balance problem, which will continue to improve with each patch. I don't agree with your other points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All stuff you have said pre-1.0 forever too. Actions speak louder than words. Do it.
Certainly some stuff is kind of tricky and time consuming to answer in any direct way, but I think it would still be great if you wrote something on why you disagree also.
In NS2, everyone is after the SAME locations (tech points) and they are locked down to only build there. It's just stale a boring. Marines should have never been locked down to tech points. That should have been an alien only thing. Aliens should be progressively static (and by that I mean expanding as a whole all around while concentrating on hive locations) while the marines should respond to such a massive threat in a very dynamic way. It sparks creativity and fun. NS1 was more about the marine team coming in as an alien response. In NS2, all it is is a tech boom race as both sides are pretty much the same outside of combat mechanics. They all want the same things, they all expand the same way and they all control the same areas.
Tell me...have you once ever felt that you were a marine team coming to save the day and clean up an alien threat, or does the game just feel like a generic team vs team with both teams having the same goal methodology? Take tech points, save up res, tech boom and win.
This, the game should not have been released with performance like this
<!--quoteo(post=2040438:date=Dec 5 2012, 06:40 PM:name=RobustPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobustPenguin @ Dec 5 2012, 06:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040438"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This, the game should not have been released with performance like this<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actions speak louder than whiny forum posts, you two should have invested in ns2 so uwe could hire more programmers.
They sent NS2HD all over the world to do "promo lans" and have fun.
They could have hired programmers on that.
Did...
Did you just <b>blame the customers</b> for the game being released in a poor state?
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Yes it does run like crap, but I disagree. New games usually don't run well on 2 year old systems. Alien camo/stealth is a primary aspect of the game. It should throw off marines aim without an option to dumb it down. This reminds me of the easy-hard slider in Oblivion...so lame.
<!--quoteo(post=2038536:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. <u>Linear Gameplay</u> Gameplay gets stale pretty fast, especially late game. You start w/skulks probably get cara/celerity/camo for a bit, then play for map control a bit while waiting for one of three different units, unless you went gorge, which almost nobody does because it's really not very fun. On marine you do the same thing, only you have to build stuff, which is tedious, then it's whack-a-mole w/the skulks on your RTs for a while. The only direct combat weapon upgrade is the shotgun. Grenade Launcher is effective, but bulky and not satisfying to use. Flamethrower is boring by design. And in the end you're either an EXO or a jetpacker. There's no reason to stay on foot. Every game the tech is the same by end game, which brings me to my next point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Reason to stay on foot: no pres. But why stay on foot when it's end game? End the damn round and you'll be on foot again the next round.
<!--quoteo(post=2038536:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. <u>Hit reg</u> The hit registration for this patch is currently abysmal. It's so bad I can't even play because on alien it feels unfair and on marine it just sucks. Seriously this is the primary reason marines are currently losing so much. They can't shoot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to aim ahead of targets, similar to older games without good lag compensation. I think this is due to performance (drop in FPS) rather than netcode, but not sure. Server performance seems alright, clients not so much.
<!--quoteo(post=2038536:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->6. <u>Gorge</u> Gorge isn't particularly useful other than healing up hives and making people waste time shooting well placed hydras, and bile bomb late game (which is great, and fits well on gorge). It's direct combat ability is far too weak. The spit should be able to kill marines easier, aimed correctly, but it's hit reg/animation/fact you can't see it without alien vision/slow projectile speed makes the gorge ultra vulnerable. The heal spray self heal is probably too weak now given that it was nerfed way too hard early beta because people couldn't aim due to 6 fps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gorge isn't fun unless played as a support unit for the front line. Some ideas....a burrow ability to hide underground, spit blinds/slows marines, grappling hook, lerk spike/spike shotgun/spike caltrops (slows marines), gas bombs/sprayers, mind control. Hell, lerk gas should heal aliens and gorge heal should be converted to lerk gas. Actually just replace Gorge with Kirby.
<!--quoteo(post=2038536:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->8. <u>Alien evolutions</u> Don't really do too much compared to a1 a2 a3 on marines. Silence feels like it should be a passive for making a shade hive or something. Regen/cara meh, they aren't particulary interesting, regen is fun but what unit can really use it well. Lerk sort of? Fade dies way too fast Onos maybe but eh cara probably just as good/better (i'd always go cara). Cara itself is a flat armor upgrade that doesn't scale. Not really all that cool. Celerity only works out of combat, super meh, though it's decent. Not fun or well thought-out or interesting. Camo is good, when moving with it aliens shouldn't be slightly (very) visible though so on marines you aren't 100% reliant on your commander to not get ######. Pubs don't typically move together. Adrenaline is the worst offender of poorly thought-out non-intuitive abilities. It's a flat increase in energy. Really? Can't come up with something a BIT more interesting? Like swing a bit faster, energy regen a bit faster, energy regen out of combat faster, energy regen in combat faster? SOMETHING? Also 6 upgrades period kinds sucks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, but leave cloaking alone.
<!--quoteo(post=2038536:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->9. <u>Lifeform upgrades</u> Leap is useful, it's also not really that different from jumping, it feels gimped, slow and weak. It should be more obvious that you're doing something. Doing a bit of damage on contact would be a fun thing to do, and set it up so a leap + 2 bite combo killed a a2 marine or something?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, what if a leap-bite dealt way more damage? Leapers are not that difficult to avoid, but in waves they should pose a serious threat rather than being a laughable case of fly swatting with shotties. It would give skulks a counter to the point-blank-one-hit-wonder-shotty.
<!--quoteo(post=2038536:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Dec 1 2012, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->10. <u>Balance</u> Stuff that's really obvious and needs to be changed. Fade survivability needs a buff, it goes down too fast for 50 res, not even debatable. GLs do too much damage to too many units when spammed at your own guys, something should be done to prevent that. GLs themselves seem to fire delayed grenades, terrible. The Onos gore nerf was perfect, GJ UW. Change stomp into something not so lame though, for both the onos and the marines. Vortex, take it out of the game and give the fade something interesting and useful. Gorge spit is too ineffective. Gorge itself could use more buildings or more abilities or just something to make it more fun to use i dunno.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You missed the worst part...grenades shoot out of a make-believe gun barrel that is about 5 feet to the right of your actual gun model, making all your nades bounce off the nearest corner back into your face. What the?
As a tf2 demoman player, the grenades seem to have the velocity of glacial jelly. Feels terribly awkward.
You can't expect every game's GL to perform like TF2s.
That being said, while there is some issue with the trace scan hitreg, the projectile hitreg in NS2 is just REALLY bad. At some point they really need to stop masking that problem and actually address it.
an RTS game marketed as a team deathmatch based FPS.
an RTS game marketed as a team deathmatch based FPS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game has it's problems, that's for sure. But I don't know how you could say it's been marketed as a team deathmatch based FPS. If anything,
UWE have been hammering on the RTS and teamwork aspects as much as possible when talking about NS2.
But seroiusly, this game is very fun, it just needs fixing! With your new money from retail release, now you can fix hopefully soon :) Gorge spit reg, Fade shadowstep and blink too similar, Fade low health is fine but he tickles people instead of one focus ninja strike, shotgun spread too tight, bile too strong, IMO :)