<!--quoteo(post=2040178:date=Dec 4 2012, 06:53 PM:name=Jarl Ballin')--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jarl Ballin' @ Dec 4 2012, 06:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040178"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because they played NS1 and know that Offensive Chambers were better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2040186:date=Dec 4 2012, 06:09 PM:name=Afterhours)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Afterhours @ Dec 4 2012, 06:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040186"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then they should go back and play NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you should go back to windows 95'. See I can make invalid statements too.
<!--quoteo(post=2040187:date=Dec 4 2012, 07:10 PM:name=Jarl Ballin')--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jarl Ballin' @ Dec 4 2012, 07:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040187"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then you should go back to windows 95'. See I can make invalid statements too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do explain. Regarding your statement. You imply that it's okay for a sequel to have something worse than it's predecessor. So the only answer is to never play NS2 again and play NS1. Which makes you sound like a bafoon. Maybe that works for COD but not something as intricate as NS. That's why I told you to go back to Windows 95'. Because there's a lot of things that it did better than Vista/7/8. But you wouldn't do that would you? My point exactly.
<!--quoteo(post=2040190:date=Dec 4 2012, 07:16 PM:name=Jarl Ballin')--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jarl Ballin' @ Dec 4 2012, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040190"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do explain. Regarding your statement. You imply that it's okay for a sequel to have something worse than it's predecessor. So the only answer is to never play NS2 again and play NS1. Which makes you sound like a bafoon. Maybe that works for COD but not something as intricate as NS. That's why I told you to go back to Windows 95'. Because there's a lot of things that it did better than Vista/7/8. But you wouldn't do that would you? My point exactly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because NS1 and NS2 are entirely seperate entities. They're not the same game. Same style, but not the same game.
Marines in NS2 are not the same as Marines in NS1, similar, but not the same.
So your point of saying that a building, in an entirely different game, is better than a building in this game is invalid.
That would be like me saying that the Red Checker is better than a Pawn because it can multi-hop.
<!--quoteo(post=2040010:date=Dec 5 2012, 07:18 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Dec 5 2012, 07:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040010"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Except it's true, games can be decided by an early Gorge holding a key location with clogs + hydras.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2040192:date=Dec 4 2012, 06:19 PM:name=Afterhours)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Afterhours @ Dec 4 2012, 06:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because NS1 and NS2 are entirely seperate entities. They're not the same game. Same style, but not the same game.
Marines in NS2 are not the same as Marines in NS1, similar, but not the same.
So your point of saying that a building, in an entirely different game, is better than a building in this game is invalid.
That would be like me saying that the Red Checker is better than a Pawn because it can multi-hop.
See? Not hard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. The models are different but the behaviors are the same. In NS2 Hydras are different and behave differently and have a more negative impact on gorge play.
<!--quoteo(post=2040195:date=Dec 4 2012, 07:26 PM:name=Jarl Ballin')--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jarl Ballin' @ Dec 4 2012, 07:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040195"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wrong. The models are different but the behaviors are the same. In NS2 Hydras are different and behave differently and have a more negative impact on gorge play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soccer and Waterpolo share a lot of behaviors. Does that make them the same game?
Negative how? Besides costing 1 prez?
P.S. I'm not sure if you know this, but Operating Systems and Gameplay mechanics have very little to do with eachother.
Hydras are good for distractions with skulks, and for helping to pick of JPs in your hive room, and that's about it. If it's a case of a solo gorge, I see no reason why the comm could not drop a few meds and rush the gorge, ignoring the hydras. They really are quite weak, and not worth three pres. One pres is about what they are worth.
Note that I really like hydras, and think they are very well balanced for what the can do. Static defense is at a good place in the game, as compared to the turret farms/mass OCs of yore.
Hydras are more of a deterrent / delayer than they are killing machines.
Plant 3 hydras at a res node? That res node now goes from taking 30 seconds to knife down to 2 minutes to kill (for one dude). This makes me as a rambo very sad, and it takes a ###### ton of pressure off of me as an alien commander.
Plant 3 hydras around your upgrades near your hive? Congrats. Those upgrades are now un-ninja-able. Someone starts to shoot the hydras? when they reload, jump out of the com chair and bite their head off.
Of course, throwing 3 hydras in a random bottleneck will just get them sniped.
If a gorge + hydras holds off multiple marines it's not so much because that gorge is super effective but simply because those marines are absolutely clueless.
3 Hydras is better than a Whip usually and they stick around now even if you no longer go gorge after dropping them
Have you ever seen a gorge rush? I think you'd think differently if you had 18+ hydras sitting 3 feet away from your Infantry Portal<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I saw a gorge rush.
Once.
In a video.
What are the odds of a WHOLE pub team going gorge? Probably close to 0, hence pointless statement.
the guys here saying "early hydras can hold a key location" are the same guys who bunnyhop over every clockwall and finish the gorge befor they outrange/los the hydras and take down everything behinde this "great gorge wall" so stfu
Smart Hydra placement can turn the tides or add some extra help for defense. Especially when protecting Hives in tight places like Data Core on Summit. Last game I comm'd I had 3 Hydras placed in a triangle formation (one at the back, one on the floor, one on the ceiling). Along with my own assistance while the Marines were preoccupied on the Hive/Hydras, I had the chance to jump out of the Hive and take them out myself, allowing my team to concentrate on pushing the other bases.
I don't know what people expect out of them. You can't just throw them on the Marine front line and expect magically hold the position. The only real problem they have is that they don't give back res when you destroy them yourself.
A good Gorge with well placed clog \ hydra wall can stop a single marine in its tracks Can hold off 2 marines and temporarily stop 3. you just have to place hydras in posistion to attack marines through the clog wall to be the most effective.
Also hydras well placed in a hive, will force marines to waste ammo, leaving them either dry or force them to reload. Best time to attack
<!--quoteo(post=2040330:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:23 PM:name=kk20)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk20 @ Dec 5 2012, 11:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040330"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wont stop a flame thrower tho. And unless you have a whip you are nade food. Hydras need to be either hitscan weapons or much tougher.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By that point you shouldn't really be relying on them. I do agree however that they should be able to mature and gain a slight boost in damage and health.
<!--quoteo(post=2040072:date=Dec 5 2012, 07:54 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Dec 5 2012, 07:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens tend to Tres drop many of their lifeforms in the competitive universe. Onos have obviously been delayed, but early fades and lerks are much more of a thing now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We've gone into some kind of upside-down world compared to NS1.
<!--quoteo(post=2040327:date=Dec 5 2012, 12:12 PM:name=AM|Angry_AGAIN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AM|Angry_AGAIN @ Dec 5 2012, 12:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040327"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the guys here saying "early hydras can hold a key location" are the same guys who bunnyhop over every clockwall and finish the gorge befor they outrange/los the hydras and take down everything behinde this "great gorge wall" so stfu<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wtf does this even mean mate? This is the most counter-argumentative comment I've ever seen.
<!--quoteo(post=2040324:date=Dec 5 2012, 06:53 AM:name=buhehe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (buhehe @ Dec 5 2012, 06:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040324"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I saw a gorge rush.
Once.
In a video.
What are the odds of a WHOLE pub team going gorge? Probably close to 0, hence pointless statement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wrong...again.
I find this to be more server specific tactics but I've seen it 4 times on different occasions since release, sometimes they work sometimes not. The most funny one was where we were on summit and the whole team went gorge (about 8) right at the start. fought our way into marine start in atrium. We laid down all our hydras behind the comm chair (our mistake i think) and fought the marines head on. They slowly were picking us off 1 by 1. Marines Rushed GL's and ended that battle after what seemed to be a good 5 minute frantic heal spray / spit battle.
Funny port is we won that game. We had a lot of map control after it happened since our comm was expanding as it went down.
I find this to be more server specific tactics but I've seen it 4 times on different occasions since release, sometimes they work sometimes not. The most funny one was where we were on summit and the whole team went gorge (about 8) right at the start. fought our way into marine start in atrium. We laid down all our hydras behind the comm chair (our mistake i think) and fought the marines head on. They slowly were picking us off 1 by 1. Marines Rushed GL's and ended that battle after what seemed to be a good 5 minute frantic heal spray / spit battle.
Funny port is we won that game. We had a lot of map control after it happened since our comm was expanding as it went down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
out of curiosity, how many hours did you play NS2 since release?
<!--quoteo(post=2040357:date=Dec 5 2012, 09:07 AM:name=buhehe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (buhehe @ Dec 5 2012, 09:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040357"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->out of curiosity, how many hours did you play NS2 since release?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
180ish..I was wrong before i have about 160 hrs as gorge not 120 :)
But your right, It doesn't happen a lot that's for sure it still can happen though. Personally I think it's a funny but dumb tactic. I find teaming up with other gorges mid game after bile comes out when marines are looking to secure 3rd tech point or defend 2nd one to be the best time to hit marine start with mini gorges rushes. I do it ALL the time on 16 player servers and it's incredibly effective (best map for this is tram when marines are in shipping); however, that's not really on topic..
<!--quoteo(post=2040352:date=Dec 5 2012, 02:39 PM:name=Wyattx3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wyattx3 @ Dec 5 2012, 02:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040352"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"can" implies only potentiality, so your argument about the wording and meaning and all your reasoning does not stand.
The real question is CAN they have a huge impact? Well yes, there are situations no matter how limited or obscure where they can have a huge impact.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What??
Well then... Breaking news!
A 4 years old kid playing a Marine, equipped with only a Switch Axe, can have a huge impact on the game! ....assuming the whole alien team gets disconnected at the same time, or they all suffer a heart attack simultaneously / <insert_random_disaster_here>
Comments
RTS Game = Time is of the essence.
Guess what Hydras are good at in the early game? Buying time.
If you think buying time is pointless in an RTS game, go play SC2, then come back and regret your primitive thinking.
Then they should go back and play NS1.
Then you should go back to windows 95'. See I can make invalid statements too.
My statement isn't invalid. Yours is though. GG.
Do explain. Regarding your statement. You imply that it's okay for a sequel to have something worse than it's predecessor. So the only answer is to never play NS2 again and play NS1. Which makes you sound like a bafoon. Maybe that works for COD but not something as intricate as NS. That's why I told you to go back to Windows 95'. Because there's a lot of things that it did better than Vista/7/8. But you wouldn't do that would you? My point exactly.
Because NS1 and NS2 are entirely seperate entities. They're not the same game. Same style, but not the same game.
Marines in NS2 are not the same as Marines in NS1, similar, but not the same.
So your point of saying that a building, in an entirely different game, is better than a building in this game is invalid.
That would be like me saying that the Red Checker is better than a Pawn because it can multi-hop.
See? Not hard.
+1 I agree
Marines in NS2 are not the same as Marines in NS1, similar, but not the same.
So your point of saying that a building, in an entirely different game, is better than a building in this game is invalid.
That would be like me saying that the Red Checker is better than a Pawn because it can multi-hop.
See? Not hard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. The models are different but the behaviors are the same. In NS2 Hydras are different and behave differently and have a more negative impact on gorge play.
3 Hydras is better than a Whip usually and they stick around now even if you no longer go gorge after dropping them
Have you ever seen a gorge rush?
I think you'd think differently if you had 18+ hydras sitting 3 feet away from your Infantry Portal
Soccer and Waterpolo share a lot of behaviors. Does that make them the same game?
Negative how? Besides costing 1 prez?
P.S. I'm not sure if you know this, but Operating Systems and Gameplay mechanics have very little to do with eachother.
It would be like Apple calling their next phone the F-Phone 6. Nobody knows wtf it is. It derives from the I-Phone 5 but people don't like that.
Note that I really like hydras, and think they are very well balanced for what the can do. Static defense is at a good place in the game, as compared to the turret farms/mass OCs of yore.
Plant 3 hydras at a res node? That res node now goes from taking 30 seconds to knife down to 2 minutes to kill (for one dude). This makes me as a rambo very sad, and it takes a ###### ton of pressure off of me as an alien commander.
Plant 3 hydras around your upgrades near your hive? Congrats. Those upgrades are now un-ninja-able. Someone starts to shoot the hydras? when they reload, jump out of the com chair and bite their head off.
Of course, throwing 3 hydras in a random bottleneck will just get them sniped.
Though all I would do is increase the range and maybe buff heal spray a bit.
>Still thinking Hydras are bad
3 Hydras is better than a Whip usually and they stick around now even if you no longer go gorge after dropping them
Have you ever seen a gorge rush?
I think you'd think differently if you had 18+ hydras sitting 3 feet away from your Infantry Portal<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I saw a gorge rush.
Once.
In a video.
What are the odds of a WHOLE pub team going gorge?
Probably close to 0, hence pointless statement.
so stfu
I don't know what people expect out of them. You can't just throw them on the Marine front line and expect magically hold the position. The only real problem they have is that they don't give back res when you destroy them yourself.
Can hold off 2 marines and temporarily stop 3.
you just have to place hydras in posistion to attack marines through the clog wall to be the most effective.
Also hydras well placed in a hive, will force marines to waste ammo, leaving them either dry or force them to reload. Best time to attack
By that point you shouldn't really be relying on them. I do agree however that they should be able to mature and gain a slight boost in damage and health.
We've gone into some kind of upside-down world compared to NS1.
The real question is CAN they have a huge impact? Well yes, there are situations no matter how limited or obscure where they can have a huge impact.
so stfu<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wtf does this even mean mate? This is the most counter-argumentative comment I've ever seen.
Once.
In a video.
What are the odds of a WHOLE pub team going gorge?
Probably close to 0, hence pointless statement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wrong...again.
I find this to be more server specific tactics but I've seen it 4 times on different occasions since release, sometimes they work sometimes not. The most funny one was where we were on summit and the whole team went gorge (about 8) right at the start. fought our way into marine start in atrium. We laid down all our hydras behind the comm chair (our mistake i think) and fought the marines head on. They slowly were picking us off 1 by 1. Marines Rushed GL's and ended that battle after what seemed to be a good 5 minute frantic heal spray / spit battle.
Funny port is we won that game. We had a lot of map control after it happened since our comm was expanding as it went down.
I find this to be more server specific tactics but I've seen it 4 times on different occasions since release, sometimes they work sometimes not. The most funny one was where we were on summit and the whole team went gorge (about 8) right at the start. fought our way into marine start in atrium. We laid down all our hydras behind the comm chair (our mistake i think) and fought the marines head on. They slowly were picking us off 1 by 1. Marines Rushed GL's and ended that battle after what seemed to be a good 5 minute frantic heal spray / spit battle.
Funny port is we won that game. We had a lot of map control after it happened since our comm was expanding as it went down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
out of curiosity, how many hours did you play NS2 since release?
180ish..I was wrong before i have about 160 hrs as gorge not 120 :)
But your right, It doesn't happen a lot that's for sure it still can happen though. Personally I think it's a funny but dumb tactic. I find teaming up with other gorges mid game after bile comes out when marines are looking to secure 3rd tech point or defend 2nd one to be the best time to hit marine start with mini gorges rushes. I do it ALL the time on 16 player servers and it's incredibly effective (best map for this is tram when marines are in shipping); however, that's not really on topic..
The real question is CAN they have a huge impact? Well yes, there are situations no matter how limited or obscure where they can have a huge impact.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What??
Well then... Breaking news!
A 4 years old kid playing a Marine, equipped with only a Switch Axe, can have a huge impact on the game!
....assuming the whole alien team gets disconnected at the same time, or they all suffer a heart attack simultaneously / <insert_random_disaster_here>
See what I did there :3