The flamethrower does 7.5 damage per hit with a clip size of 30, but I can't find data on its actual rate of fire.
It stacks a burn damage over time for 3 points of damage a second, and it stacks every 0.4 seconds 20 times up to 60 damage a second. This damage lasts for 6 seconds after the flamethrower stops hitting the victim.
It also saps energy from alien lifeforms, making them regenerate energy at 60% speed.
It also clears out cysts and clogs extremely fast.
The flamethrower is amazing when you use it correctly.
<!--quoteo(post=2037849:date=Nov 30 2012, 02:36 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Nov 30 2012, 02:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->no its not viable, one gorge can easily surive 3 flamethrowers with good evasive movement. you can't even hit the enemy with that.
"but its good against buildings :(" who cares about flamethrowers when you ride arcs, which does not ruin personal resources.
total trash it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Allow me to translate: "I don't want to <strike>use</strike> waste my personal resources to support my team, but instead I selfishly want an uber pawnage weapon for my self."
Well there are some questions that tickle my brain: <ul><li><b>WHY THE HELL DIDN'T THE 3 FLAMERS PULL THEIR PISTOLS???</b></li><li>Why were there so many Flamers at all and no AR or SG?</li><li>Why can't you hit the enemy with the FT when you easily force a Lerk to retreat while it is hard to hit with AR or even with SG when it is a very good lerk?</li><li>Why is the FT trash when you can burn Spores and Umbra away, stops whips from knoking back granades, slows down an Onos attack and can take away the most precious resource of the fade?</li><li>What is wrong with you people anyway?</li></ul>
Yeh like Husar said, the flamethrower is viable, just not by itself. Add a flamethrower to a group of marines and it becomes an incredible support weapon.
<!--quoteo(post=2037849:date=Nov 30 2012, 07:36 AM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Nov 30 2012, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->no its not viable, one gorge can easily surive 3 flamethrowers with good evasive movement. you can't even hit the enemy with that.
"but its good against buildings :(" who cares about flamethrowers when you ride arcs, which does not ruin personal resources.
total trash it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats because gorge healspray puts out flames, so you never got a damage stack going.
Flamethrower is an excellent weapon when used properly. Its the bane if all aliens, which is why marines with a flamer usually are killed first.
<!--quoteo(post=2037885:date=Nov 30 2012, 07:09 AM:name=Husar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Husar @ Nov 30 2012, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037885"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Allow me to translate: "I don't want to <strike>use</strike> waste my personal resources to support my team, but instead I selfishly want an uber pawnage weapon for my self."
Well there are some questions that tickle my brain: <ul><li><b>WHY THE HELL DIDN'T THE 3 FLAMERS PULL THEIR PISTOLS???</b></li><li>Why were there so many Flamers at all and no AR or SG?</li><li>Why can't you hit the enemy with the FT when you easily force a Lerk to retreat while it is hard to hit with AR or even with SG when it is a very good lerk?</li><li>Why is the FT trash when you can burn Spores and Umbra away, stops whips from knoking back granades, slows down an Onos attack and can take away the most precious resource of the fade?</li><li>What is wrong with you people anyway?</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if i wasnt playing the game, i would actually believe you. sadly i do play. paying 25 res for a minor debuff weapon is just roleplaying, you think you are usefull actually not.
-i would gladly exchange speed reduction to 200 dmg per second which is shotgun (speaking of which flame thrower causes speed reduction to wielder aswell, its the weapon lowers your movement speed the most.) saving 5 res, also its the most effective weapon against any lifeform in the game. -if you are in range of a whip you are dead, plain simple. you are not playing againsts npcs nor its a tower defense. good bye 25 res i doubt you will buy another one. - having a shotgun 2 shotting the source of umbra and spores seems much more viable to me. instead of lowering the total damage output spraying the flames all over the places.
shotgun clearly overshadows flamethrower, you are not being usefull by buying one. you are actually lowering the total damage output, and your minor debufs mean nothing in practice.
btw i laughed about your comment on shotgun vs lerk. are you kidding me, shotgun is the most effective weapon against a good lerk. and good lerks would actually not mess with good shotguner.
Have you seen someone sit on a hive with a flamer? Goes down so so freaking fast. GREAT way to ninja a hive at B when the fight is going really huge at A. I've done this a number of times. It is also very useful against spores and umbra. It also makes whips vulnerable to grenades. But yeah, its damage against aliens sucks balls.
All I would like to see with the flamers right now is a minor range increase. The biggest problem I have is aliens being able to easily kill me before I can get enough stacks because the lack of range. Not to mention, flamethrowers actually have a pretty good range in real life. Now I don't want it to scream across a whole room, but a slight range increase would do wonders I think in making it feel a little more scary. As an alien, I usually worry about flamers last, as they aren't the ones who are going to shred me in 2 seconds, and if they do start to damage me, I can just leap out of their range instantly.
<!--quoteo(post=2038053:date=Dec 1 2012, 07:24 AM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 1 2012, 07:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038053"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if i wasnt playing the game, i would actually believe you. sadly i do play. paying 25 res for a minor debuff weapon is just roleplaying, you think you are usefull actually not.
-i would gladly exchange speed reduction to 200 dmg per second which is shotgun (speaking of which flame thrower causes speed reduction to wielder aswell, its the weapon lowers your movement speed the most.) saving 5 res, also its the most effective weapon against any lifeform in the game. -if you are in range of a whip you are dead, plain simple. you are not playing againsts npcs nor its a tower defense. good bye 25 res i doubt you will buy another one. - having a shotgun 2 shotting the source of umbra and spores seems much more viable to me. instead of lowering the total damage output spraying the flames all over the places.
shotgun clearly overshadows flamethrower, you are not being usefull by buying one. you are actually lowering the total damage output, and your minor debufs mean nothing in practice.
btw i laughed about your comment on shotgun vs lerk. are you kidding me, shotgun is the most effective weapon against a good lerk. and good lerks would actually not mess with good shotguner.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And if if had not played the game I might believe your arguments....FT are fine...sorry but you should have paid up earlier and been in teh Beta if you wanted the FT to instagib aliens (damn that 1st FT was evil). A FT with a JP is damn near impossible to take down and with support you have one devestating group of marines.
A FT drains energy reducing attack abilities of aliens (and blink/shadowstep/bellyslide/spores/etc) whilst doing damage. Sure you cant RAMBO half a dozen aliens but sorry your not meant to (that was early days of beta).
So before you say the FT is to weak you might want t consider it has slowly been toned down from the instagibber it was at its initial release (the view obstruction was insane).
I think its working just fine the only change I would want to see is slightly increased damage to onos and more visual screen blocking the larger the alien is.
<!--quoteo(post=2038174:date=Nov 30 2012, 05:34 PM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Nov 30 2012, 05:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038174"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And if if had not played the game I might believe your arguments....FT are fine...sorry but you should have paid up earlier and been in teh Beta if you wanted the FT to instagib aliens (damn that 1st FT was evil). A FT with a JP is damn near impossible to take down and with support you have one devestating group of marines.
A FT drains energy reducing attack abilities of aliens (and blink/shadowstep/bellyslide/spores/etc) whilst doing damage. Sure you cant RAMBO half a dozen aliens but sorry your not meant to (that was early days of beta).
So before you say the FT is to weak you might want t consider it has slowly been toned down from the instagibber it was at its initial release (the view obstruction was insane).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you are playing on the paper i guess. none of the above happens in the game and in the practice. you pay 25 res for the weapon to only lose it in 2 minutes without being able to deal serious debuffs if you could LOL! i can't believe you are talking about DEBUFFS in a fast paced game where death comes in two well placed shots. if flamethrower with such attributes was in warcraft 3 i would say okey thats a great weapon to have in my army. that is a fast paced FIRST PERSON SHOOTER!
flamethrower is a liablity to a group. range is limited damage is limited speed is limited, silly minor debuffs arent even visible, easy target.
<!--quoteo(post=2038297:date=Dec 1 2012, 10:32 AM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 1 2012, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038297"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->flamethrower is a liablity to a group. range is limited damage is limited speed is limited, silly minor debuffs arent even visible, easy target.
but hey i drain energy!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is it a liability? Add a FT to a group and it stops spores and umbra, forces fades and lerks away, distracts skulks and lets the GL do it's job against now inactive whips, hell it even slows down the amount of dmg an onos can do. Yeh by itself it's crap, but so is the GL and exo suits, play as a team.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its the bane if all aliens, which is why marines with a flamer usually are killed first.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FT are killed first because everybody knows a single skulk > FT marine.
<!--quoteo(post=2038377:date=Dec 1 2012, 09:01 AM:name=PHJF)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PHJF @ Dec 1 2012, 09:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038377"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->FT are killed first because everybody knows a single skulk > FT marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tell that to all of the smoldering skulks who tried to bring me, or my Exo buddies down. Or to the piles of ashes that were once Oni. Or to all of the Lerks whose corpses exploded when the flames hit their internal gases. Or to the Gorges who just couldn't put the fires out fast enough. Or to the Fades who didn't run, but left as dust in the wind.
The Flamethrower is great when used correctly.
EDIT: I actually felt really, really horrible about chasing a Gorge around a hive room and burning it to death. He tried so, so hard to put out the flames and survive... and I burned him.
Ellen RipleyJoin Date: 2012-11-06Member: 167803Members
Flamethrowers are support and siege weapons. Grab a flamer and welder, strap on a jetpack, and go roast everything that even looks at your exos wrong. Don't underestimate the usefulness of burning away spore/umbra either.
Also, you can do this. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjowdp3-eIA&feature=youtu.be" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjowdp3-eIA...eature=youtu.be</a> The fastest way to destroy the alien economy and make the kham rage. It works. I've done it.
I will however say this. Never take a flamethrower without a jetpack. With a jetpack and flamer, nothing short of an onos or a dedicated swarm should be able to touch you. Without a jetpack, you're flamer is nothing more than a dinner bell and you'll be dead in seconds. Jetpacks are cheap, and you need that mobility to get a decent return on your 25 res flamer.
<!--quoteo(post=2038351:date=Dec 1 2012, 06:49 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Dec 1 2012, 06:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038351"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How is it a liability? Add a FT to a group and it stops spores and umbra, forces fades and lerks away, distracts skulks and lets the GL do it's job against now inactive whips, hell it even slows down the amount of dmg an onos can do. Yeh by itself it's crap, but so is the GL and exo suits, play as a team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
play the game next time you leave a comment, theories and practice are not good friends.
<!--quoteo(post=2038746:date=Dec 2 2012, 12:56 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 2 2012, 12:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038746"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->play the game next time you leave a comment, theories and practice are not good friends.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do play the game, and I often take a flamethrower. But firstly only when we have jetpacks, because yes it makes you a massive target and it's very hard to actually kill aliens with it. And secondly making sure that it's only the first or second FT to add to the team, because a team of flamethrowers isn't very powerfull.
But assuming those two things are true it makes a wonderful support weapon. Yeh you probably won't get any kills but you massivly slow down fades and onos, it nullifes the lerks spores which most of the time is all they do, and once you can jetpack onto the hive say bye bye hive!
The only buff I think it could do with is a small range increase, but otherwise it's in a pretty good spot. Stop wanting to be some super human rambo, play as a team, and watch it become effective.
Agree with Emoo. It is starting to fit a pretty clear, solid, and needed role now, but a think a small range increase could make it more in line with other weapons cost effectiveness. I do agree with the OP too that the weapon isn't really cost effective compared to the other rine weapon's, but it doesn't need to be turned into an uber weapon. I range increase would probably be enough to allow it to compete with the other rine weapons. It's pretty close right now. It just needs some minor tweaking.
The cost could also be reduced. 25 seems very steep. A range increase could offset that, but I think I'd rather see it stay the same and only cost 20 res.
madness aside, i would like a range increase please, the first person flame model reaches things, but never actually burns them unless it is in melee range... wut.
<!--quoteo(post=2038754:date=Dec 2 2012, 05:19 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Dec 2 2012, 05:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038754"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do play the game, and I often take a flamethrower. But firstly only when we have jetpacks, because yes it makes you a massive target and it's very hard to actually kill aliens with it. And secondly making sure that it's only the first or second FT to add to the team, because a team of flamethrowers isn't very powerfull.
But assuming those two things are true it makes a wonderful support weapon. Yeh you probably won't get any kills but you massivly slow down fades and onos, it nullifes the lerks spores which most of the time is all they do, and once you can jetpack onto the hive say bye bye hive!
The only buff I think it could do with is a small range increase, but otherwise it's in a pretty good spot. Stop wanting to be some super human rambo, play as a team, and watch it become effective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you surely like to play the game on paper. let me join you.
onos runs you over 5 times while you try to "slow him", slow effect is not massive, energy drain barely noticable. damage is MASSIVELY low dead not big suprise
if i had to arrange a team of 3 marines vs a single onos i would choose 3 freaking marines whit shotguns, best counter to onos is more firepower not silly debuffs. stop bringing up that onos arguement, its not working in the game only in paper.
lerk will take you out while nesting in a well concealed position, he will target you and you wont be able to attack back and none of your friends will even aware if there is a sniping lerk GG dead, not big suprise. flamethrower marine is wide open to lerkrape, and least helpfull marine to a lerkraped marine team of 3
you will try to nulify whips, but as the whips are in range so are you each whip takes a huge chunk of yer hp while assisting skulks will take you off with suicidal charges. dead not big suprise.
any jetpacking marine is as effective as flamethrower marine. oh not the shotgun jetpacker they simply oblireate the living goo out of aliens.
buff Onos buf fades, buff flamethrowers passive debuffs and clearly define a role for the weapon which is a counter balance for a high end alien gene pool. make people to buy it if they want onos and fade down, tons of minor debufffs does not make the FT a needed weapon. FT does not need mobility, it needs more durability.
heavy armor needs to be back
you dont need to clear spores and umbra you dont need a %10 speed reduction all those minor debuffes could be substituted with more firepower, which is silly.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you surely like to play the game on paper. let me join you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know how many times I'm gonna say this. I do play. Not on paper, hell I don't even know what the exact numbers for these things are, I'm going on what I've observed from playing in game.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->onos runs you over 5 times while you try to "slow him", slow effect is not massive, energy drain barely noticable. damage is MASSIVELY low dead not big suprise<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeh guess what, onos can do this to ANY marine. But a jp/flamethrower will massivly disrupt an onos attack, they have a harder time seeing, less time to attack because of energy regen, and normaly can't charge away that gives the other guys a longer time to shot at them.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if i had to arrange a team of 3 marines vs a single onos i would choose 3 freaking marines whit shotguns, best counter to onos is more firepower not silly debuffs. stop bringing up that onos arguement, its not working in the game only in paper.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If i had a team of 3 marines vs a single onos I'd have jp/ft and 2 jp/ars. Best counter to onos is concentrated firepower and not letting them run away.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lerk will take you out while nesting in a well concealed position, he will target you and you wont be able to attack back and none of your friends will even aware if there is a sniping lerk GG dead, not big suprise. flamethrower marine is wide open to lerkrape, and least helpfull marine to a lerkraped marine team of 3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So move out the way! Holy god if a lerk is spiking at you you don't have to sit there and take it!
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you will try to nulify whips, but as the whips are in range so are you each whip takes a huge chunk of yer hp while assisting skulks will take you off with suicidal charges. dead not big suprise.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Flamethrow range is greater than whip range. It's piss easy to just stand out of whip range and bring it down a whole lot faster than anything else can.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->any jetpacking marine is as effective as flamethrower marine. oh not the shotgun jetpacker they simply oblireate the living goo out of aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Jetpacking flamethrower marines absolutely destroy hives! More so than shotguns.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->buff Onos buf fades, buff flamethrowers passive debuffs and clearly define a role for the weapon which is a counter balance for a high end alien gene pool. make people to buy it if they want onos and fade down, tons of minor debufffs does not make the FT a needed weapon. FT does not need mobility, it needs more durability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Tones of debuffs make the FT a usefull support weapon. It's not there to rambo off with and kill every alien you meet. It's there to support your team and it does it great.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->heavy armor needs to be back<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's called the exosuit.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you dont need to clear spores and umbra you dont need a %10 speed reduction all those minor debuffes could be substituted with more firepower, which is silly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you relize how disruptive spores and umbra are?! Being able to clear them out is huge bonus.
Your argument basicly keeps coming down to your thought that doing anything but straight damage against lifeforms is useless. Of course that means you must think that welders, macs, drifters, heal spray, bile bomb, umbra, and gls are useless as well because none of them help take out lifeforms...
There's more to this game then straight damage. Learn to play.
<!--quoteo(post=2040347:date=Dec 5 2012, 05:29 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Dec 5 2012, 05:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040347"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your argument basicly keeps coming down to your thought that doing anything but straight damage against lifeforms is useless. Of course that means you must think that welders, macs, drifters, heal spray, bile bomb, umbra, and gls are useless as well because none of them help take out lifeforms...
There's more to this game then straight damage. Learn to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
firstly, you have no idea what the hell i am talking about, i doubt you even read my comments.
can't you see how ridiculous you sound? this comment is irrelevant as it gets and has nothing to do with my concerns about the flamethrower.
some of the irrelevant things u listed are the things that can not be substituted, they are simply the core mechanics. oh god.......
flamethrower on the other hand has no defined role in the game.
bile bomb is needed fore anti armor, drifters for massive attack speed bonus and vision, macs for marine avaiblity, umbra for hard siege, welder for defense. and guess what THEY ARE "FREE!"
and what the hell is the role of flamethrower for 25 res?
nulify whips? nuke the hell out of it, save 25 res. its countered by healing gorges with 10 res anyway LOL! umbra and spores? nuke the hell out of that lerk 25 res for 30 res lerk, not cost effective either. speed reduction at the expense of damage? no energy drain? HELL FREAKIN NO!
only viable role of flamethrower is anti-spore! LOL! paying 25 res to something that is not that critical.
there isn't a certain situation that calls for flamethrower, many commanders won't even research it, its not an even important thing to be traded off.
keep pretending to be supportive, you don't make any freaking difference. well it sounds like a good roleplay though like in the thing repeling the all devouring BACTERIUM! with FLAMES AND STEEL!
Flamers need teammates. Fyi, you would be surprised how amazing they are at supporting exos. They incinerate skulks in seconds and doesn't require precise aiming to hit them. Not to mention a flamer that is hitting an onos, especially after he used charge puts a significant damper on his energy thus resulting in less overall hits on exos.
However, on their own I don't think flamers are worth 25 res but with a welder and a jetpack supporting exos, they are beastly. Not saying that FL shouldn't be changed because they could use a small buff to armor damage and range but they aren't worthless unless you are alone without a jetpack.
@Kespec, bile bomb isn't free, neither are welders, macs, drifters or umbra. They cost res to research and they cost res to evolve into that lifeform. Do you play the same game?
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->firstly, you have no idea what the hell i am talking about, i doubt you even read my comments.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I posted a reply to every sentence of your last post. I can read them and still disagree with you.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->can't you see how ridiculous you sound? this comment is irrelevant as it gets and has nothing to do with my concerns about the flamethrower.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Your concern with the FT is that it needs to do more damage. My point was to show that not everything in the game that's useful needs to be centred around damage. It was meant to sound ridiculous, now apply that same thinking to the FT.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->some of the irrelevant things u listed are the things that can not be substituted, they are simply the core mechanics. oh god.......
flamethrower on the other hand has no defined role in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's a support weapon, seems pretty well defined to me.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->bile bomb is needed fore anti armor, drifters for massive attack speed bonus and vision, macs for marine avaiblity, umbra for hard siege, welder for defense. and guess what THEY ARE "FREE!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeh none of them are anything close to free.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and what the hell is the role of flamethrower for 25 res?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Support, anti-spores, anti-whip, anti-infestation, alien debuff, anti-alien buff (spores/umbra).
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->nulify whips? nuke the hell out of it, save 25 res. its countered by healing gorges with 10 res anyway LOL! umbra and spores? nuke the hell out of that lerk 25 res for 30 res lerk, not cost effective either. speed reduction at the expense of damage? no energy drain? HELL FREAKIN NO!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nuke the hell out of whips with what? GLs are useless against whips. Nuke the hell out of a good lerk? Good luck with that, they'll be in and out before you can take up aim and if umbras being used it's probably cause your surround by fades and onos that will be taking your attention. Speed reduction and energy reduction at the expense of damage can save an exo and kill an onos.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->only viable role of flamethrower is anti-spore! LOL! paying 25 res to something that is not that critical.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And anti-umbra, and anti-whip, and anti-infestation, and clearing skulks of exos, and hindering onos and fades from escaping.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->there isn't a certain situation that calls for flamethrower, many commanders won't even research it, its not an even important thing to be traded off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeh "good" commanders get GLs then can't work out why their team can't take that hive room full of whips.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->keep pretending to be supportive, you don't make any freaking difference. well it sounds like a good roleplay though like in the thing repeling the all devouring BACTERIUM! with FLAMES AND STEEL!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'll do that, and when thanks to the debuffs and infestation damage the FT can do I help take out fades, onos, harvesters and hives I'll feel good about it.
I'll concede the FT isn't perfect, but a small range increase would probably get it there. But it's nowhere near as useless as you make it out to be. If you can't use it well, just don't use it, leave it to us guys who have worked it out. Given you seem to be the only one whinging about it I think you just need to learn to use it better.
Yeah, once you get flamethrower with jetpacks, you can melt faces (pun intended). Destroys the alien economy so quickly by one-shotting cysts with a single burst of flames. And you should not use it directly against Whips but instead burn the cyst the Whip is on to completely disarm it. I'll pick the flamethrower any time over a grenade launcher.
<!--quoteo(post=2040883:date=Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040883"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your concern with the FT is that it needs to do more damage. My point was to show that not everything in the game that's useful needs to be centred around damage. It was meant to sound ridiculous, now apply that same thinking to the FT.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no
<!--quoteo(post=2040883:date=Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040883"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeh none of them are anything close to free.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, its anti alien t-res which is 1. alien comm can cover the area with infestation the moment you leave there.
<!--quoteo(post=2040883:date=Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040883"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nuke the hell out of whips with what? GLs are useless against whips.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you can richochet grenades which will mess with the throw back mechanic, i still wonder how people haven't figured that out yet. needs some kind of mastery though
<!--quoteo(post=2040883:date=Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040883"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeh "good" commanders get GLs then can't work out why their team can't take that hive room full of whips.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
forcing alien comm to waste massive t-res to deal with gl, pretty fair
<!--quoteo(post=2040883:date=Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040883"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you can't use it well, just don't use it, leave it to us guys who have worked it out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you have no idea about me, you will never have. keep making assumptions.
what flamer really needs is the ability to be attacked to a 1 minigun exo replacing the fist so your weilding flamer and heavy ( with appropriate fuel supply now it's wired in)
Comments
The flamethrower does 7.5 damage per hit with a clip size of 30, but I can't find data on its actual rate of fire.
It stacks a burn damage over time for 3 points of damage a second, and it stacks every 0.4 seconds 20 times up to 60 damage a second. This damage lasts for 6 seconds after the flamethrower stops hitting the victim.
It also saps energy from alien lifeforms, making them regenerate energy at 60% speed.
It also clears out cysts and clogs extremely fast.
The flamethrower is amazing when you use it correctly.
"but its good against buildings :(" who cares about flamethrowers when you ride arcs, which does not ruin personal resources.
total trash it is.
"but its good against buildings :(" who cares about flamethrowers when you ride arcs, which does not ruin personal resources.
total trash it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Allow me to translate:
"I don't want to <strike>use</strike> waste my personal resources to support my team, but instead I selfishly want an uber pawnage weapon for my self."
Well there are some questions that tickle my brain:
<ul><li><b>WHY THE HELL DIDN'T THE 3 FLAMERS PULL THEIR PISTOLS???</b></li><li>Why were there so many Flamers at all and no AR or SG?</li><li>Why can't you hit the enemy with the FT when you easily force a Lerk to retreat while it is hard to hit with AR or even with SG when it is a very good lerk?</li><li>Why is the FT trash when you can burn Spores and Umbra away, stops whips from knoking back granades, slows down an Onos attack and can take away the most precious resource of the fade?</li><li>What is wrong with you people anyway?</li></ul>
"but its good against buildings :(" who cares about flamethrowers when you ride arcs, which does not ruin personal resources.
total trash it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats because gorge healspray puts out flames, so you never got a damage stack going.
Flamethrower is an excellent weapon when used properly. Its the bane if all aliens, which is why marines with a flamer usually are killed first.
"I don't want to <strike>use</strike> waste my personal resources to support my team, but instead I selfishly want an uber pawnage weapon for my self."
Well there are some questions that tickle my brain:
<ul><li><b>WHY THE HELL DIDN'T THE 3 FLAMERS PULL THEIR PISTOLS???</b></li><li>Why were there so many Flamers at all and no AR or SG?</li><li>Why can't you hit the enemy with the FT when you easily force a Lerk to retreat while it is hard to hit with AR or even with SG when it is a very good lerk?</li><li>Why is the FT trash when you can burn Spores and Umbra away, stops whips from knoking back granades, slows down an Onos attack and can take away the most precious resource of the fade?</li><li>What is wrong with you people anyway?</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if i wasnt playing the game, i would actually believe you. sadly i do play. paying 25 res for a minor debuff weapon is just roleplaying, you think you are usefull actually not.
-i would gladly exchange speed reduction to 200 dmg per second which is shotgun (speaking of which flame thrower causes speed reduction to wielder aswell, its the weapon lowers your movement speed the most.) saving 5 res, also its the most effective weapon against any lifeform in the game.
-if you are in range of a whip you are dead, plain simple. you are not playing againsts npcs nor its a tower defense. good bye 25 res i doubt you will buy another one.
- having a shotgun 2 shotting the source of umbra and spores seems much more viable to me. instead of lowering the total damage output spraying the flames all over the places.
shotgun clearly overshadows flamethrower, you are not being usefull by buying one. you are actually lowering the total damage output, and your minor debufs mean nothing in practice.
btw i laughed about your comment on shotgun vs lerk. are you kidding me, shotgun is the most effective weapon against a good lerk. and good lerks would actually not mess with good shotguner.
-i would gladly exchange speed reduction to 200 dmg per second which is shotgun (speaking of which flame thrower causes speed reduction to wielder aswell, its the weapon lowers your movement speed the most.) saving 5 res, also its the most effective weapon against any lifeform in the game.
-if you are in range of a whip you are dead, plain simple. you are not playing againsts npcs nor its a tower defense. good bye 25 res i doubt you will buy another one.
- having a shotgun 2 shotting the source of umbra and spores seems much more viable to me. instead of lowering the total damage output spraying the flames all over the places.
shotgun clearly overshadows flamethrower, you are not being usefull by buying one. you are actually lowering the total damage output, and your minor debufs mean nothing in practice.
btw i laughed about your comment on shotgun vs lerk. are you kidding me, shotgun is the most effective weapon against a good lerk. and good lerks would actually not mess with good shotguner.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And if if had not played the game I might believe your arguments....FT are fine...sorry but you should have paid up earlier and been in teh Beta if you wanted the FT to instagib aliens (damn that 1st FT was evil).
A FT with a JP is damn near impossible to take down and with support you have one devestating group of marines.
A FT drains energy reducing attack abilities of aliens (and blink/shadowstep/bellyslide/spores/etc) whilst doing damage. Sure you cant RAMBO half a dozen aliens but sorry your not meant to (that was early days of beta).
So before you say the FT is to weak you might want t consider it has slowly been toned down from the instagibber it was at its initial release (the view obstruction was insane).
A FT with a JP is damn near impossible to take down and with support you have one devestating group of marines.
A FT drains energy reducing attack abilities of aliens (and blink/shadowstep/bellyslide/spores/etc) whilst doing damage. Sure you cant RAMBO half a dozen aliens but sorry your not meant to (that was early days of beta).
So before you say the FT is to weak you might want t consider it has slowly been toned down from the instagibber it was at its initial release (the view obstruction was insane).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you are playing on the paper i guess. none of the above happens in the game and in the practice. you pay 25 res for the weapon to only lose it in 2 minutes without being able to deal serious debuffs if you could LOL!
i can't believe you are talking about DEBUFFS in a fast paced game where death comes in two well placed shots. if flamethrower with such attributes was in warcraft 3 i would say okey thats a great weapon to have in my army. that is a fast paced FIRST PERSON SHOOTER!
flamethrower is a liablity to a group. range is limited damage is limited speed is limited, silly minor debuffs arent even visible, easy target.
but hey i drain energy!
but hey i drain energy!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is it a liability? Add a FT to a group and it stops spores and umbra, forces fades and lerks away, distracts skulks and lets the GL do it's job against now inactive whips, hell it even slows down the amount of dmg an onos can do. Yeh by itself it's crap, but so is the GL and exo suits, play as a team.
FT are killed first because everybody knows a single skulk > FT marine.
Tell that to all of the smoldering skulks who tried to bring me, or my Exo buddies down. Or to the piles of ashes that were once Oni. Or to all of the Lerks whose corpses exploded when the flames hit their internal gases. Or to the Gorges who just couldn't put the fires out fast enough. Or to the Fades who didn't run, but left as dust in the wind.
The Flamethrower is great when used correctly.
EDIT: I actually felt really, really horrible about chasing a Gorge around a hive room and burning it to death. He tried so, so hard to put out the flames and survive... and I burned him.
...I burned him....
Also, you can do this. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjowdp3-eIA&feature=youtu.be" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjowdp3-eIA...eature=youtu.be</a> The fastest way to destroy the alien economy and make the kham rage. It works. I've done it.
I will however say this. Never take a flamethrower without a jetpack. With a jetpack and flamer, nothing short of an onos or a dedicated swarm should be able to touch you. Without a jetpack, you're flamer is nothing more than a dinner bell and you'll be dead in seconds. Jetpacks are cheap, and you need that mobility to get a decent return on your 25 res flamer.
play the game next time you leave a comment, theories and practice are not good friends.
I do play the game, and I often take a flamethrower. But firstly only when we have jetpacks, because yes it makes you a massive target and it's very hard to actually kill aliens with it. And secondly making sure that it's only the first or second FT to add to the team, because a team of flamethrowers isn't very powerfull.
But assuming those two things are true it makes a wonderful support weapon. Yeh you probably won't get any kills but you massivly slow down fades and onos, it nullifes the lerks spores which most of the time is all they do, and once you can jetpack onto the hive say bye bye hive!
The only buff I think it could do with is a small range increase, but otherwise it's in a pretty good spot. Stop wanting to be some super human rambo, play as a team, and watch it become effective.
BURN THEM, YOUNG SCORCH, BURN THEM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
madness aside, i would like a range increase please, the first person flame model reaches things, but never actually burns them unless it is in melee range... wut.
But assuming those two things are true it makes a wonderful support weapon. Yeh you probably won't get any kills but you massivly slow down fades and onos, it nullifes the lerks spores which most of the time is all they do, and once you can jetpack onto the hive say bye bye hive!
The only buff I think it could do with is a small range increase, but otherwise it's in a pretty good spot. Stop wanting to be some super human rambo, play as a team, and watch it become effective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you surely like to play the game on paper. let me join you.
onos runs you over 5 times while you try to "slow him", slow effect is not massive, energy drain barely noticable. damage is MASSIVELY low dead not big suprise
if i had to arrange a team of 3 marines vs a single onos i would choose 3 freaking marines whit shotguns, best counter to onos is more firepower not silly debuffs. stop bringing up that onos arguement, its not working in the game only in paper.
lerk will take you out while nesting in a well concealed position, he will target you and you wont be able to attack back and none of your friends will even aware if there is a sniping lerk GG dead, not big suprise. flamethrower marine is wide open to lerkrape, and least helpfull marine to a lerkraped marine team of 3
you will try to nulify whips, but as the whips are in range so are you each whip takes a huge chunk of yer hp while assisting skulks will take you off with suicidal charges. dead not big suprise.
any jetpacking marine is as effective as flamethrower marine. oh not the shotgun jetpacker they simply oblireate the living goo out of aliens.
buff Onos buf fades, buff flamethrowers passive debuffs and clearly define a role for the weapon which is a counter balance for a high end alien gene pool. make people to buy it if they want onos and fade down, tons of minor debufffs does not make the FT a needed weapon. FT does not need mobility, it needs more durability.
heavy armor needs to be back
you dont need to clear spores and umbra
you dont need a %10 speed reduction
all those minor debuffes could be substituted with more firepower, which is silly.
I don't know how many times I'm gonna say this. I do play. Not on paper, hell I don't even know what the exact numbers for these things are, I'm going on what I've observed from playing in game.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->onos runs you over 5 times while you try to "slow him", slow effect is not massive, energy drain barely noticable. damage is MASSIVELY low dead not big suprise<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeh guess what, onos can do this to ANY marine. But a jp/flamethrower will massivly disrupt an onos attack, they have a harder time seeing, less time to attack because of energy regen, and normaly can't charge away that gives the other guys a longer time to shot at them.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if i had to arrange a team of 3 marines vs a single onos i would choose 3 freaking marines whit shotguns, best counter to onos is more firepower not silly debuffs. stop bringing up that onos arguement, its not working in the game only in paper.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If i had a team of 3 marines vs a single onos I'd have jp/ft and 2 jp/ars. Best counter to onos is concentrated firepower and not letting them run away.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lerk will take you out while nesting in a well concealed position, he will target you and you wont be able to attack back and none of your friends will even aware if there is a sniping lerk GG dead, not big suprise. flamethrower marine is wide open to lerkrape, and least helpfull marine to a lerkraped marine team of 3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So move out the way! Holy god if a lerk is spiking at you you don't have to sit there and take it!
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you will try to nulify whips, but as the whips are in range so are you each whip takes a huge chunk of yer hp while assisting skulks will take you off with suicidal charges. dead not big suprise.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flamethrow range is greater than whip range. It's piss easy to just stand out of whip range and bring it down a whole lot faster than anything else can.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->any jetpacking marine is as effective as flamethrower marine. oh not the shotgun jetpacker they simply oblireate the living goo out of aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jetpacking flamethrower marines absolutely destroy hives! More so than shotguns.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->buff Onos buf fades, buff flamethrowers passive debuffs and clearly define a role for the weapon which is a counter balance for a high end alien gene pool. make people to buy it if they want onos and fade down, tons of minor debufffs does not make the FT a needed weapon. FT does not need mobility, it needs more durability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tones of debuffs make the FT a usefull support weapon. It's not there to rambo off with and kill every alien you meet. It's there to support your team and it does it great.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->heavy armor needs to be back<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's called the exosuit.
<!--quoteo(post=2040114:date=Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 4 2012, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you dont need to clear spores and umbra
you dont need a %10 speed reduction
all those minor debuffes could be substituted with more firepower, which is silly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you relize how disruptive spores and umbra are?! Being able to clear them out is huge bonus.
Your argument basicly keeps coming down to your thought that doing anything but straight damage against lifeforms is useless. Of course that means you must think that welders, macs, drifters, heal spray, bile bomb, umbra, and gls
are useless as well because none of them help take out lifeforms...
There's more to this game then straight damage. Learn to play.
are useless as well because none of them help take out lifeforms...
There's more to this game then straight damage. Learn to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
firstly, you have no idea what the hell i am talking about, i doubt you even read my comments.
can't you see how ridiculous you sound? this comment is irrelevant as it gets and has nothing to do with my concerns about the flamethrower.
some of the irrelevant things u listed are the things that can not be substituted, they are simply the core mechanics. oh god.......
flamethrower on the other hand has no defined role in the game.
bile bomb is needed fore anti armor, drifters for massive attack speed bonus and vision, macs for marine avaiblity, umbra for hard siege, welder for defense. and guess what THEY ARE "FREE!"
and what the hell is the role of flamethrower for 25 res?
nulify whips? nuke the hell out of it, save 25 res. its countered by healing gorges with 10 res anyway LOL!
umbra and spores? nuke the hell out of that lerk 25 res for 30 res lerk, not cost effective either.
speed reduction at the expense of damage? no
energy drain? HELL FREAKIN NO!
only viable role of flamethrower is anti-spore! LOL! paying 25 res to something that is not that critical.
there isn't a certain situation that calls for flamethrower, many commanders won't even research it, its not an even important thing to be traded off.
keep pretending to be supportive, you don't make any freaking difference. well it sounds like a good roleplay though like in the thing repeling the all devouring BACTERIUM! with FLAMES AND STEEL!
However, on their own I don't think flamers are worth 25 res but with a welder and a jetpack supporting exos, they are beastly. Not saying that FL shouldn't be changed because they could use a small buff to armor damage and range but they aren't worthless unless you are alone without a jetpack.
@Kespec, bile bomb isn't free, neither are welders, macs, drifters or umbra. They cost res to research and they cost res to evolve into that lifeform. Do you play the same game?
I posted a reply to every sentence of your last post. I can read them and still disagree with you.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->can't you see how ridiculous you sound? this comment is irrelevant as it gets and has nothing to do with my concerns about the flamethrower.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your concern with the FT is that it needs to do more damage. My point was to show that not everything in the game that's useful needs to be centred around damage. It was meant to sound ridiculous, now apply that same thinking to the FT.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->some of the irrelevant things u listed are the things that can not be substituted, they are simply the core mechanics. oh god.......
flamethrower on the other hand has no defined role in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a support weapon, seems pretty well defined to me.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->bile bomb is needed fore anti armor, drifters for massive attack speed bonus and vision, macs for marine avaiblity, umbra for hard siege, welder for defense. and guess what THEY ARE "FREE!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeh none of them are anything close to free.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and what the hell is the role of flamethrower for 25 res?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Support, anti-spores, anti-whip, anti-infestation, alien debuff, anti-alien buff (spores/umbra).
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->nulify whips? nuke the hell out of it, save 25 res. its countered by healing gorges with 10 res anyway LOL!
umbra and spores? nuke the hell out of that lerk 25 res for 30 res lerk, not cost effective either.
speed reduction at the expense of damage? no
energy drain? HELL FREAKIN NO!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nuke the hell out of whips with what? GLs are useless against whips.
Nuke the hell out of a good lerk? Good luck with that, they'll be in and out before you can take up aim and if umbras being used it's probably cause your surround by fades and onos that will be taking your attention.
Speed reduction and energy reduction at the expense of damage can save an exo and kill an onos.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->only viable role of flamethrower is anti-spore! LOL! paying 25 res to something that is not that critical.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And anti-umbra, and anti-whip, and anti-infestation, and clearing skulks of exos, and hindering onos and fades from escaping.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->there isn't a certain situation that calls for flamethrower, many commanders won't even research it, its not an even important thing to be traded off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeh "good" commanders get GLs then can't work out why their team can't take that hive room full of whips.
<!--quoteo(post=2040616:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=kespec)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kespec @ Dec 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->keep pretending to be supportive, you don't make any freaking difference. well it sounds like a good roleplay though like in the thing repeling the all devouring BACTERIUM! with FLAMES AND STEEL!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll do that, and when thanks to the debuffs and infestation damage the FT can do I help take out fades, onos, harvesters and hives I'll feel good about it.
I'll concede the FT isn't perfect, but a small range increase would probably get it there. But it's nowhere near as useless as you make it out to be. If you can't use it well, just don't use it, leave it to us guys who have worked it out.
Given you seem to be the only one whinging about it I think you just need to learn to use it better.
Destroys the alien economy so quickly by one-shotting cysts with a single burst of flames. And you should not use it directly against Whips but instead burn the cyst the Whip is on to completely disarm it. I'll pick the flamethrower any time over a grenade launcher.
no
<!--quoteo(post=2040883:date=Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040883"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeh none of them are anything close to free.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
again no, they are free compared to 25 res.
<!--quoteo(post=2040883:date=Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040883"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->anti-infestation<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, its anti alien t-res which is 1. alien comm can cover the area with infestation the moment you leave there.
<!--quoteo(post=2040883:date=Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040883"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nuke the hell out of whips with what? GLs are useless against whips.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you can richochet grenades which will mess with the throw back mechanic, i still wonder how people haven't figured that out yet. needs some kind of mastery though
<!--quoteo(post=2040883:date=Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040883"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeh "good" commanders get GLs then can't work out why their team can't take that hive room full of whips.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
forcing alien comm to waste massive t-res to deal with gl, pretty fair
<!--quoteo(post=2040883:date=Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Dec 6 2012, 02:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040883"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you can't use it well, just don't use it, leave it to us guys who have worked it out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you have no idea about me, you will never have. keep making assumptions.