Stomp: As bad as devour
sumguy720
Join Date: 2011-02-09 Member: 81101Members
Join Date: 2011-02-09 Member: 81101Members
The reason UWE took out devour is vaguely clear to me. They didn't want people to get taken out of the game. That's cool! I agree. Good idea. Getting devoured was sort of cool in some respect but I know it can be frustrating to be out of combat for such a long time.
Stomp is still a really frustrating move though. It doesn't detain you for as long, but stomp happens WAY more frequently than devour could have, and it affects many more players at once. I think the total loss-of-control and helplessness factor ends up being about the same.
When I play Onos I actually don't use stomp much because I feel cheap for immobilizing the enemy. I feel like I exorcised the player from their avatar with stomp and then just harvested the points from this lifeless body on the floor. At least when they're running away and shooting I feel like I'm actually doing something.
I don't understand all the intricacies of balance in this game but I do know that for me stomp is not fun, no matter which team I'm on.
Can we think of something to replace it? Do you all think it needs to be revisited?
Stomp is still a really frustrating move though. It doesn't detain you for as long, but stomp happens WAY more frequently than devour could have, and it affects many more players at once. I think the total loss-of-control and helplessness factor ends up being about the same.
When I play Onos I actually don't use stomp much because I feel cheap for immobilizing the enemy. I feel like I exorcised the player from their avatar with stomp and then just harvested the points from this lifeless body on the floor. At least when they're running away and shooting I feel like I'm actually doing something.
I don't understand all the intricacies of balance in this game but I do know that for me stomp is not fun, no matter which team I'm on.
Can we think of something to replace it? Do you all think it needs to be revisited?
Comments
I actually didn't mind devour. It could only target one marine, and it made the onos a huge target. I also preferred the lerk with the old spores, where it could fire from range but only at one spot. Now you get them covering whole rooms with it. Where's the skill in that? Meh.
Anyway, the real problem with stomp - imho - is not the mechanism of it. The issue for me has been that it skews the balance of the onos versus the EXO. As it stands now an EXO isn't worth squat unless paired with a second EXO, and a few welders. Oh, and if the EXO isn't a dual-mini then don't waste your res.
However, since I'm told that the EXO is weak because marines are supposed to run around like fools with welders out, (something which most people say is silly) if marines are supposed to be doing this, then why make it so easy to negate that? That EXO has welders? ((stomp)) Not anymore. Chomp, chomp, EXO down. Now let's finish those marines that only have a welder out as a weapon. (where it the rolling eyes smiley when you need it) Yawn.
So I don't dislike stomp, but I do feel that its current place in the game does give it more power than it should have.
I actually didn't mind devour. It could only target one marine, and it made the onos a huge target. I also preferred the lerk with the old spores, where it could fire from range but only at one spot. Now you get them covering whole rooms with it. Where's the skill in that? Meh.
Anyway, the real problem with stomp - imho - is not the mechanism of it. The issue for me has been that it skews the balance of the onos versus the EXO. As it stands now an EXO isn't worth squat unless paired with a second EXO, and a few welders. Oh, and if the EXO isn't a dual-mini then don't waste your res.
However, since I'm told that the EXO is weak because marines are supposed to run around like fools with welders out, (something which most people say is silly) if marines are supposed to be doing this, then why make it so easy to negate that? That EXO has welders? ((stomp)) Not anymore. Chomp, chomp, EXO down. Now let's finish those marines that only have a welder out as a weapon. (where it the rolling eyes smiley when you need it) Yawn.
So I don't dislike stomp, but I do feel that its current place in the game does give it more power than it should have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe the marines should stop weld-humping the exo for a second, spread out a bit and help shoot down the Onos? An upgraded dual exo with a couple rifle marines will slaughter any Onos.
In the fact that if he doesn't fly like freaking Baron Von Richthofen he's going to get smoked in less than 2 seconds.
You've obviously never played lerk, it's the most demanding class in the entire game.
I was stomped for over 5 minutes on one of those never ending games.
I wanted to pull an oldie from NS1, dropped weapons and ran towards alien yelling I surrender, the onos then proceeded to do what I detailed before.
<strike>It was NOT fun. for me at least.</strike> well, that would be a lie, I pleaded for my life, promised to give away marine locations, it was kind of funny in a way.
Devour just doesn't have a very good place in NS2 at the moment. Stomp makes a lot of sense because it's a base busting ability. Stomp marines and all of a sudden everyone attacking the base has 3 fewer marines firing at them. We need late game base smashing abilities for aliens. Marines can already turtle for the better part of hours with a bit of luck and skill.
Just type 'kill' into the console to kill yourself if you are getting trolled
The current implementation of relatively low energy cost, coupled with risk free execution and relatively minor combat impact makes for an ability which can become infuriating in the right circumstances (circumstances which arise quite often).
What I would prefer to see is more of an emphasis on risk, a slightly higher energy cost, and a much bigger, one time combat impact. Firstly I don't think it should be in a line in front of the Onos. It doesn't make physical sense, and it just makes it a finicky and hard to predict ability. Instead, stomp should go off in a sphere around the Onos, so no matter what your elevation is, you get affected by it if you are within a certain range of the Onos. This also means that an Onos needs to get into the middle of a group of marines in order to be most effective, which is a pretty dangerous thing to do. Then, to make it more combat effective, I think it should do damage based on proximity. Stomping directly on a marine should do something like 150 normal damage, while being on the very edge of the radius would do 80 or so. I propose that it does damage, because that seems to be the only way to increase its impact in combat, without increasing the stun duration, which is long enough already. Could be interesting to scale damage done with how fast the Onos is moving, to get some cool charge/stomp combos going.
The current implementation of relatively low energy cost, coupled with risk free execution and relatively minor combat impact makes for an ability which can become infuriating in the right circumstances (circumstances which arise quite often).
What I would prefer to see is more of an emphasis on risk, a slightly higher energy cost, and a much bigger, one time combat impact. Firstly I don't think it should be in a line in front of the Onos. It doesn't make physical sense, and it just makes it a finicky and hard to predict ability. Instead, stomp should go off in a sphere around the Onos, so no matter what your elevation is, you get affected by it if you are within a certain range of the Onos. This also means that an Onos needs to get into the middle of a group of marines in order to be most effective, which is a pretty dangerous thing to do. Then, to make it more combat effective, I think it should do damage based on proximity. Stomping directly on a marine should do something like 150 normal damage, while being on the very edge of the radius would do 80 or so. I propose that it does damage, because that seems to be the only way to increase its impact in combat, without increasing the stun duration, which is long enough already. Could be interesting to scale damage done with how fast the Onos is moving, to get some cool charge/stomp combos going.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There was pretty much nothing in this post that was either true or made any sense worth agreeing with, sorry.
I'd be happy that I'm occupying the time of an onos as a 0-res marine in that situation :-D . Better than having that onos killing structures or causing p.res loss elsewhere on the map.
Speaking of which Stomp is deffinetly annoying.
I remember stomp spamming one marine untill he wrote kill command in console to suicide.
To be fair - they had no power and was one of the last 2 ppl alive.
I don't have any problems with stomp as of yet, for the record.
ITS WORSE.
I'm doubtful about this o.0. Can anyone actually confirm this? At one point in the beta you could indeed jump over stomp, but ever since stomp was basically undodgeable? Very high vertical stomp 'tracebox', prediction etc. It goes up over ledges, across the air, and other crazy crap which hasn't been fixed since forever. Granted i havn't tried dodging stomp in the last couple builds (i just run away), but neither have i seen a bugfix patchnote for it...
<!--quoteo(post=2036759:date=Nov 29 2012, 09:36 AM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 29 2012, 09:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2036759"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd be happy that I'm occupying the time of an onos as a 0-res marine in that situation :-D . Better than having that onos killing structures or causing p.res loss elsewhere on the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then we might as well change stomp into a channelled spell that costs 1 energy per second so you can channel it for infinity. That would certainly not have any ill effects. Afterall, who would waste their time doing that anyway? We should also implement a big gui message explaining the situation to make sure the players being perma-stomped understand they should be feeling happy.
Basically, stomp is worse than devour, buggy, and unbelievably troll with a shift. The only perspective that really matters here is the marine perspective. I remember at one point, stomp wouldn't reapply untill a short time after the marine had stood back up. Would like to see that come back.
For those that don't know the term. Basically a failsafe to prevent the onos from stomping the same marine over and over again. Works something like this (fake numbers) 1st stomp is 3 seconds on the floor, 2nd stomp is 2 seconds, 3rd stomp is 1 second, and after the 3rd stomp the marine becomes immune to being stomped for a little bit (like 10 seconds).
1. Having 3 hives isn't a win for aliens 95% of the time.
2. Marines are still in the game without jetpacks somehow.
3. There is only 1-2 onos
4. Marines have to be grouped up enough.
5. The onos is supported by other life forms.
6. The strength of the group isn't strong enough to survive without Onos stun.
Since those 6 conditions practically never happen for what I am willing to say is a majority of games I say that stomp is useless in its current implementation. Stomp only serves as an overkill tool that is more annoying than it ever could be useful. The only third hive ability that I would even wager has any practicality in relation to the implications of a third hive is umbra.
tl;dr stomp is pointless cause 3 hives means marines are already dead
It's a slow projectile, just side-step it. You might not be able to get out of the way if the Onos is aiming directly at you, but he certainly isn't going to get a whole pack of marines at once if they're paying attention.