Xenocide + Parasite
Lt. Lizard
Join Date: 2012-11-06 Member: 167595Members
Join Date: 2012-11-06 Member: 167595Members
<div class="IPBDescription">adding a synergy</div>The synergy in question is pretty simple: Make targets infested with parasite take <i>triple</i> damage from Xenocide.
Parasite from <i>any</i> skulk would count. This would insta-kill even full a3 Marine and would do 150 damage to exo. Because you cant parasite structures, it would be a non-issue against them.
I think reasons for this change is pretty clear: Xenocide is an ability that is so underutilized that I can count instances I saw it used on one hand. Parasite too, is almost inconsequential outside of the famous "2 bites, 1 parasite". This would hopefully increase effectiveness (and usage) of both abilities by a fair bit, and thus directly increase the effectiveness of end-game skulk, who sorely needs it.
So? Good idea? Bad idea? Horrible idea?
Parasite from <i>any</i> skulk would count. This would insta-kill even full a3 Marine and would do 150 damage to exo. Because you cant parasite structures, it would be a non-issue against them.
I think reasons for this change is pretty clear: Xenocide is an ability that is so underutilized that I can count instances I saw it used on one hand. Parasite too, is almost inconsequential outside of the famous "2 bites, 1 parasite". This would hopefully increase effectiveness (and usage) of both abilities by a fair bit, and thus directly increase the effectiveness of end-game skulk, who sorely needs it.
So? Good idea? Bad idea? Horrible idea?
Comments
I have never used xenocide and I have seen it used once.
Okay so what about xenocide going off with proximity to a parasite rather than waiting for a timer? Like, your body would know when the marine was near so it would just explode rather than waiting.
I just am recalling xenocide from NS1 which was always a tricky time thing.
On the one hand, I can't say that I don't <i>like</i> the idea. It would not only add extra depth to playing as a Skulk, but give Skulks a reason to do something other than bite on anything and everything.
On the other hand, I can't shake the feeling that a third-hive ability should be able to be viable <i>on it's own</i>. Why can't Xenocide do that much damage, or nearly that much damage, by itself? It's kind of ridiculous really, especially when you consider that it is a suicide attack, and that Skulks can't do anything else while waiting to explode. The only exception to this, IMO, should be the Exo. ~150 damage from one Skulk seems a little extreme when you consider that an Exo only has 570 armor. (Well, at A3 anyway.)
Of course, these points only stand as the game is currently. If the railgun comes out next patch as an anti-structure/Onos weapon that does an impressive amount of damage, maybe even through walls, then I'll be all for suiciding Skulks being able to do a lot more damage.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 1 point of armor worth 2 of health? So exos would effectively have 1140 health?
Yes that, or parasite being a damage multiplier... But then again the game will be ballanced acordingly and parasite will become a requirement to be effective...
Yes maybe xeno damage multiplier is best as it would imply that you are on 3 hives and should be winning.
Its even worse actually, as Xenocide does light damage, which has 4 points of damage to 1 point of armor conversion.
Just to appreciate how insanely useless Xenocide is in current form, it currently does 200 light damage, which translates to whooping <i>50 damage</i> to armor. Which is actually <i>less</i> then two full (75) bites would do, mostly because bite does normal damage and thus only needs only 2 points of damage to take 1 point of armor.
After looking at Globals.lua:
// Damage types
//
// In NS2 - Keep simple and mostly in regard to armor and non-armor. Can't see armor, but players
// and structures spawn with an intuitive amount of armor.
// <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2010/6/damage_types_in_ns2" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2010...ge_types_in_ns2</a>
//
// Normal - Regular damage (Rifle, Bite, Spit, Railgun, Flamethrower)
// Light - Reduced vs. armor (Sentries, Hydras, Whip attack?)
// Heavy - Extra damage vs. armor (Swipe, Pistol)
// Puncture - Extra vs. players (Minigun, Spikes)
// Structural - Double against structures (Gore, Axe, GL)
// Gas - Breathing targets only (Spores, Nerve Gas GL). Ignores armor.
// Biological - Living targets only (Parasite, Flamethrower, Healing spray)
// StructuresOnly - Doesn't damage players or AI units (ARC, Bombard, Sap)
// Falling - Ignores armor for humans, no damage for some creatures or exoskeleton
// Door - Like Normal but also does damage to Doors. Nothing else damages Doors.
// Flame - Like normal but catches target on fire and plays special flinch animation
// Infestation - Take damage due to no infestation
I would rather see Xenocide become heavy damage (200 to all targets). If that's too OP against Exos for you, then put an Exo damage scalar on it.
Either way, if I get Xeno, I'll just keep using it while screaming at people as I leap at them.
EDIT: For the record, Bile Bombs won't kill an Exo being repaired. Chomping won't kill an exo being repaired. An Onos can barely kill an Exo being repaired. Hell, why not give Skulks the chance to do some SERIOUS damage at the expense of their lives?
I would rather see Xenocide become heavy damage (200 to all targets). If that's too OP against Exos for you, then put an Exo damage scalar on it.
Either way, if I get Xeno, I'll just keep using it while screaming at people as I leap at them.
<u>EDIT: For the record, Bile Bombs won't kill an Exo being repaired. Chomping won't kill an exo being repaired. An Onos can barely kill an Exo being repaired. Hell, why not give Skulks the chance to do some SERIOUS damage at the expense of their lives?
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Because Skulks are free and expendable. You would have an unlimited army of exo/base destroying suicide soldiers.
True, I wasn't really thinking about that at the time. I guess ~150 normal damage would only be ~75 damage to an Exo, and that seems perfectly fine.
<!--quoteo(post=2035481:date=Nov 26 2012, 08:02 PM:name=Ellen Ripley)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ellen Ripley @ Nov 26 2012, 08:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2035481"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because Skulks are free and expendable. You would have an unlimited army of exo/base destroying suicide soldiers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The part you should be focusing on there is <b>suicide</b>. Aliens take forever to respawn, especially if you happen to miss a spawn wave because other Skulks using Xenocide have eaten up all the eggs.
Not to mention, upgrades are how aliens scale. You wouldn't want to go charging into a hive room or come up against an Onos end-game with W0/A0, but that's how Skulks are the entire game.
Not to mention, upgrades are how aliens scale. You wouldn't want to go charging into a hive room or come up against an Onos end-game with W0/A0, but that's how Skulks are the entire game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that skulks scale poorly, while out of the box marines with a3/w3 are still viable. I don't think they should be turned into exo destroying bombs though. I do think that xenocide should be more effective against soldiers, and perhaps a distinction should be made between heavy armor (exos, arcs, most buildings) and light armor (marines, macs, light buildings like obs/phase gates).
And can anyone tell me why parasite exists? I know it does 10 damage and can drop an a0 marine to only 2 bites of health but as a utility skill it's pretty pointless. I'd definitely consider supporting any change that makes it more useful.
Xenocide should simply decimate marines. In NS1 it was the mother of all turtle enders. I think it would be fair if xenocide left a level 2 armour marine on 5% health, but in a much smaller radius than it currently has, obviously.
If they think it would be too easy to get massive reward from, then make it more a case of killing the skulk before it goes off.
I propose the following system: When xenocide is used, have the skulks health start rapidly decreasing, with the explosion occuring when it reaches zero health. Assuming the entire process take 1.5 seconds (I think that's about right), have a minimum timer of 0.75 seconds. If the skulk's health reaches zero before this minimum timer expires (either through being shot, or if the health countdown reaches zero) then no explosion occurs. After the minimum timer, the skulk should do a full damage xenocide if its health reaches zero via the countdown, or a half damage xenocide if it reaches zero as a result of being shot. Alternatively have the xenocide be cancelled if the skulk dies from being shot.
The health count down should start relative to the skulks current health. IE if a skulk with 15 hp begins xenocide with a countdown of 1.5 seconds, the skulk should lose 1HP every 0.1 seconds.
Skulks eat up eggs, especially when they suicide. 200 normal damage is 100 damage to an Exo. For that one dead skulk, that's one hit from an Onos (nerfed damage, by the way). The one dead skulk costs one egg. One skulk every 12 seconds.
I don't see how 200 damage every 12 seconds is too much. Sure, you could complain that three skulks working together to suicide rush an exo train could destroy the whole thing, but that's TEAMWORK. A skulk will one shot any marine at A1 with the current Xenocide. . A2, they're still alive.
As it stands, Xenocide is completely useless outside of having fun. 200 normal damage won't kill an A3 Marine, an Exo, a MAC, or any structure.
And now that the Onos does 100 damage to an Exo per hit, it takes 6 hits to kill one not even being welded. This means you have to have two Oni to kill one exo, an exo who can't track the onos, or an enzyme cloud from a drifter.
EDIT: Did I mention that one marine dies, comes back 7 seconds later, gets himself a gun at the armory, a jetpack at the prototype lab, then walks through a phase gate directly into the fight while that suicide skulk comes back 12 seconds later if there's an egg, then has to get their upgrades again, then has to run back to the fight?
EDIT: I'm an idiot. So much time spent not playing Marines made me forget that A2 is 70 armor, not 50!