<!--quoteo(post=2033485:date=Nov 24 2012, 08:09 PM:name=dumbo11)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dumbo11 @ Nov 24 2012, 08:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033485"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- onos should be produced by 'something other than pres'. My own suggestion is that hives simply generate onos eggs. (with 3 hives, 1 immediately produced then 1 egg every 5 minutes etc). Buff/nerf the onos as appropriate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ooh, now there's an intruiging idea: Doing that, or making Onos & Exos tres-only. If you wanted to get really crazy, you could have the alien player's previous lifeform remain in an egg at the hive while the player is off being a tres Onos. When the Onos dies, the player hatches as their previous pres lifeform. Similarly, when the exo dies, the marine inside is forcibly ejected with all of their previous upgrades! :D
1) At least game needs a scrollable chat that supports the unicode characters because It's pretty stupid to write messages on English or on Latin instead of your primary language. 2) Console with tab-completion. 3) List of favourite servers that don't rely from master-server.
1. Score System tied to res income like OP 2. Earn exierience based on score to earn ranks. 3. Slow down respawn time. 4. Add acid rocket like skill as 4th hive ability. Read 4 hives, not 2 mature. 5. Give proper crosshairs to all weapons. 6. Skulks being able to clench their teeth into marines by holding the mouse. <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121605" target="_blank">see post</a> 7. Lower hive health/armor, increase egg hp/armor. 8. Let marines electrify rts or powernodes. 9. Give onos devour back!
<ul><li>Bring back energy for scans & beacon. Making scan cost tRes just messes with build queues too much, and camo is prohibitively expensive to counter. The reason for the switch to tRes was to simplify the interface. Switching back will bring back an interface problem for the marine commander, so there would need to be work done to make the energy level more apparent to the commander.</li><li>Remodel drifters. Their current appearance isn't telling of their purpose. One of my 'newbie' friends remarked that he saw a drifter revealed by a scan and had no idea what it was for, and it didn't seem to threaten him so he didn't worry about it. Sounds like a newbie but given that he's actually a QA lead in game development it makes me take his point seriously. It would be much more obvious if it looked like it was covered in eyeballs, for example. What they are currently is legacy assets from the beta. Their function and the gameplay they produce is good. I would love to see them given to gorges to spit on surfaces and made about 1/2 the size of a drifter.</li><li>Change shotgun to back to light damage. I've harped on about this for ages. I think shotguns are too much of a universal upgrade. Switching back to light damage makes carapace a more interesting early game choice, rather than just a general upgrade. Shotgun should still one-shot a skulk, but maybe a cara skulk requires W1 shotty. Ultimately I want marines to prefer the rifle over the shotgun for fighting Onos.</li><li>I also want a package of changes to make fade combat more interesting (for both sides): a) no damage while blinking b) swipe delay c) maximum of three swipes to kill a fully upgraded marine d) flamethrower sets lifeforms on fire, draining their energy but doing minimal HP damage - basically much stronger at preventing fades escaping. Currently, good fades will only die if/when they are simultaneously hit by two shotgun shots which feels much more luck based than skill based. Also, that fact creates just another incentive for marines to shotgun/blob war, which is not very skillful or interesting. The change to make flamethowers a viable DPS weapon was too hastily done to placate newbies who thought such an expensive weapon should be more generally combat effective. Those newbies didn't get the opportunity to learn how it could work as a support weapon. And it was to the detriment of the game.</li></ul> Whatever balance problems these changes create should be addressed without altering these game mechanics.
So, 3/4 of these points are "make stuff like it was back in the beta". Hey, at least I'm not saying "make it like NS1". And I am actually saying stuff based on experience rather than wild speculation. And I love NS2, and only want to see it become a better game. <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><3<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Many people agree with the removal of armor healing. It's just over the top. Additionally, I myself have suggested that the current armories only be build within a radius of command stations, but then have a smaller, weaker, and cheaper version of armories available to build anywhere on the map.
Good thinking on the changes to scan. I always thought the radius was a bit gigantic. And it definitely makes sense to keep it in line with shades.
I also like your arms lab model. Smooths out the progression and scaling of tech, and requires marines to get that third TP! The numbers on the buffs themselves might need a bit of tweaking if this were to be done.
Lastly your hydra idea is interesting. Invincible sounds a bit ridiculous. Are you saying that shooting them has no effect? That in itself seems like a bad idea, but I thought about it and it might actually make them much more useful if they could be shot down, but instead of dying completely like they do now, they would just slump over and become inactive, and would require healing or just a 30 sec cooldown before they sprung up again. Would make them quite a nuisance. There would still have to be a way to remove them permanently if the marines end up taking over that particular room. Maybe building a power node would kill them for good?
<!--quoteo(post=2033665:date=Nov 24 2012, 03:03 PM:name=Bad Mojo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bad Mojo @ Nov 24 2012, 03:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lastly your hydra idea is interesting. Invincible sounds a bit ridiculous. Are you saying that shooting them has no effect? That in itself seems like a bad idea, but I thought about it and it might actually make them much more useful if they could be shot down, but instead of dying completely like they do now, they would just slump over and become inactive, and would require healing or just a 30 sec cooldown before they sprung up again. Would make them quite a nuisance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't be opposed to that (though I don't know if 30 seconds would be ideal--maybe 20 seconds but healing can reduce that time by half? Dunno). Perhaps shooting them disables them for 3 seconds, meaning a dedicated Marine would have to provide "suppressing fire" to get around to the Gorge. I just dislike that the 3 PRes "investment" is just a waste as it is right now.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There would still have to be a way to remove them permanently if the marines end up taking over that particular room. Maybe building a power node would kill them for good?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I may have mis-worded it at the time but I meant that if the Gorge or a Cyst (or built Hive) isn't in proximity, then they would die off. No "battery" to power them, of sorts. I imagine a Gorge could be a right nuisance if he stays in a clogged vent within radius of them. Hmm. My idea would actually reintroduce vent-camping Gorges, though they'd still be much less annoying in NS2 with the tech point win/loss system.
Install stat trackers, get tons of statistics, observe observe observe, make small changes slowly here and there to balance.
Honestly, there are things I feel like should be done, there are puppy tails I suspect are issues, I don't want the game to be ripped apart and changed a whole lot all of a sudden, and I REALLY don't want all of the NS2 changes from NS1 rolled back to the stuff from NS1. NS1 still exists, this game should not be that one. It's too similar already in my opinion.
<!--quoteo(post=2033665:date=Nov 25 2012, 05:03 AM:name=Bad Mojo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bad Mojo @ Nov 25 2012, 05:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lastly your hydra idea is interesting. Invincible sounds a bit ridiculous. Are you saying that shooting them has no effect? That in itself seems like a bad idea, but I thought about it and it might actually make them much more useful if they could be shot down, but instead of dying completely like they do now, they would just slump over and become inactive, and would require healing or just a 30 sec cooldown before they sprung up again. Would make them quite a nuisance. There would still have to be a way to remove them permanently if the marines end up taking over that particular room. Maybe building a power node would kill them for good?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe have it so that Hydras only come back to life if they remain on infestation for the entire time they are dead?
A cyst-less hydra will survive until it dies. A cysted hydra will keep coming back until the cyst is removed and the infestation from it has receded.
Remove alien commander Give gorge a real role Make fades scary Remove SGs Add HMG Give bombard whips an arc style effect Shrink skulk model and hitbox size whilst adding proper wall jumping Remove the stupid effect on flashlights that blinds friendly players Take aliens back to more upgrade possibilities.
Basically revert to an improved version of NS1 rather than a stripped down version
Only change that should be made is to increase the skill ceiling of the game immensely.. The game currently is so terribly skill capped that its not even remotely enjoyable to play most of the time... How they manage to accomplish that is up to them but honestly NS2 is not going to become a hugely popular game based on the public play.. that doesnt mean it should be ignored but the only way this game will become huge is through a large competitive scene, and the only way to increase that is to actually make the gameplay skillful and rewarding. There are plenty of ways to balance and keep public play fun even while greatly increasing the skillcap, its time to start doing some of those changes.
Except Fades are virtually worthless at breaking defense or at doing absolutely anything against Exos. Sure, they might be able to kill the Welder monkey...but if the Exo doesn't instantaneously gun them down, the Marines were bad in the first place (of course, we're talking Exos, here). They're simply inferior in those incredibly vital situations to a Gorge, Lerk, Onos, or even the Skulk because of its reduced hitbox.
I mean, I love to play Fade but don't kid yourself that it's anything more than a slightly tougher Skulk right now. And Aliens don't need a slightly tougher Skulk. That's pointless.
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As for Lerks, I agree. I feel they're right in the perfect place. I wish Spores was slightly wider than it is but it's still adequate.
<!--quoteo(post=2033829:date=Nov 24 2012, 06:51 PM:name=RobustPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobustPenguin @ Nov 24 2012, 06:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033829"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Add HMG<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why do you hate aliens so much?
More weapons, more tech and more life forms. It's the future... come up with something creative. Add more weapons than just shotgun, flamethrower and grenade launcher. Add some future.
<!--quoteo(post=2033876:date=Nov 25 2012, 01:55 AM:name=Syriquez)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Syriquez @ Nov 25 2012, 01:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033876"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Except Fades are virtually worthless at breaking defense or at doing absolutely anything against Exos. Sure, they might be able to kill the Welder monkey...but if the Exo doesn't instantaneously gun them down, the Marines were bad in the first place (of course, we're talking Exos, here). They're simply inferior in those incredibly vital situations to a Gorge, Lerk, Onos, or even the Skulk because of its reduced hitbox.
I mean, I love to play Fade but don't kid yourself that it's anything more than a slightly tougher Skulk right now. And Aliens don't need a slightly tougher Skulk. That's pointless.
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As for Lerks, I agree. I feel they're right in the perfect place. I wish Spores was slightly wider than it is but it's still adequate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why does a fade have to be good at everything? A marine with a gl might be very good vs static defenses (excluding whips) but very poor vs skulks who get close. Fades are neither meant to combat exos nor kill structures, that's what they are. But a fade is extremly effective in distracting marines by simple blinking past them.
<!--quoteo(post=2034200:date=Nov 25 2012, 08:05 AM:name=bERt0r)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bERt0r @ Nov 25 2012, 08:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034200"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A marine with a gl might be very good vs static defenses (excluding whips) but very poor vs skulks who get close. Fades are neither meant to combat exos nor kill structures, that's what they are. But a fade is extremly effective in distracting marines by simple blinking past them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a real selling point in an FPS:
<b><i>Don't bother actually fighting your enemies! Just run past them like a shooting gallery duck! Oh what fun and innovation!</i></b>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why does a fade have to be good at everything?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you failed to read a damn bit of my reasoning, solely reacting to what seems to be the first sentence of anything I wrote. Fantastic job.
I said nothing about Fades being good "at everything". I said they need to be good at <i>something</i>. Right now, they are a larger, easier-to-hit Skulk that takes 2 Shotgun blasts instead of 1. My change? Doesn't remove their vulnerability. Gives them something they can actually do that makes them valuable compared to saving another 25 res for Onos. I love my Fade but I'm not naive enough to suggest I play it in any situation other than one where I'm already going to win in 5 minutes.
@xDragon I feel like your understanding of what gives birth to a competitive game to be really quite shortsighted.
Your statement completely overlooks both League of Legends and DOTA2, if what you said were true then the figures of the recent QuakeLive games at Dreamhack wouldn't have garnered less than a 10th of League of Legends.
To say this game has a low skillcap is biased, in relation to other competitive games I would put it up there with Starcraft2 and Quake3 from a mechanical standpoint. I come from TFC and AGMod and I can still appreciate the effort that NS2 takes, to think that the ceiling need be higher to increase the player base is stupid when all it will do is create a larger rift in the community. It's easy enough as is to go 20-1 as marines or aliens, if you want to make the community more insular then a slow death awaits you.
<!--quoteo(post=2033983:date=Nov 25 2012, 04:11 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Nov 25 2012, 04:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033983"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do you hate aliens so much?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you add the HMG as a higher tech alternative to the shotgun then you can reduce the shotguns late game power (and thus prevent fades from being so pathetic) by making it an earlier tech weapon. Much of the issue with the shotty being so brutal is that its the only upgraded direct combat weapon that a marine has access to.
<b>A second commander resource pool that scales with player count to purchase items and structures that scale with player count. </b> With this scaled resource, devs can better balance the game so there is less of a disconnect between the smaller comp matches compared to the larger pub matches. Makes the devs job easier since they can feel less guilty slightly favoring comp play balancing knowing it will translate better into pub play. BTW I don't play NS2 competitively, but all dev should balance their multiplayer game by looking at the top tiers of skill level.
<b>Cheaper alien lifeforms with less abilities that can later purchase abilities.</b> Example, a 10-pres lerk with only bite, but can later purchase spikes, gas and/or umbra for certain amount of pres. This creates more gameplay choices for alien players from start to finish. We'll see less lifeform explosions, since lifeforms will all be used more often from the start (albeit not as powerful as they will be later on). This will also allow more evolutions to be viable to more lifeforms. Example, celerity is redundant on a fade. However if the default fade only cost 15 pres, but had no blink or shadow step, then celerity and even camo might be a viable loadout on the basic fade (which right now are near useless on him). Again, more gameplay choices.
<b>Get rid of marine passive upgrades, and in its place add in more purchasable gameplay items.</b> This adds in more interesting gameplay choices for marine players, and gets rid of the boring and free power swing for marines late game. Since I'm also suggesting that aliens purchase their abilities, this equals out on both sides. So instead of getting a free +10-30% damage increase for weapons, you purchase an HMG, that fires slower but does +X% more damage/DPS ... plus does heavy damage. And you can purchase armor piercing ammunition (<i>this acts as a purchasable buff, similar to evolutions like carapace...when it did cost res</i>) that provides puncture damage to all your bullet firing weapons. Instead of free 20+ armor boost increments, marines instead purchase an armored vest, helmet and gauntlet/greave combo...each providing that +20 armor boost. Now since they are distinct items, each could be made to provide further gameplay bonuses, such as the vest negating the 25% bonus of puncture damage or the helmet doubling as a gas mask and reducing gas damage (would need more gas damage sources, heal spray, umbra (less damage than spores) basically anything gaseous on alien side would need a gas damage component).
<b>Upgradable res towers.</b> Since I'm suggesting that players purchase everything that were once free upgrades/abilities, comms should have the ability to upgraded res towers to provide more pres per tick to players so that they have the res to purchase more and stronger upgrades/items/abilities as the game goes on (instead of players passively getting stronger as the game goes on).
<b>More counters.</b> Not hard counters, but if I see the other team favoring one thing too much, there should be something to that we could do to counter it. So if marines are favoring shotguns and grenade launchers, aliens can get an evolution that provides them a "clog-like" trait that caps all damage from a single source to 50 damage. Or if there are a lot of fades, marines can focus more on getting those armored vests to cancel out the puncture damage bonus.
If? What do you mean if? Everything's coded in Lua, and very easy to change. After I get together a big list of things to change, I'll be making a balance mod. Unless I find myself too busy.
And as soon as I get reacquainted with modelling... EVERYBODY GETS A TOP HAT, MONOCLE, AND MOUSTACHE! EVERYBODY!
I would find a way to get the fade blink back to the way it was. You know, where he disappeared completely and reappeared elsewhere? That made the fade overpowered, but the fun value was immense.
Yeah so I would find a way to put that back in and maintain balance.
First of all, I would revisit what NS2 is supposed to be about at its core. Is it supposed to be a competitive multiplayer shooter, where we'll have lots of clans and talk about skill? Or is it supposed to be just a fun multiplayer game? A good example is the RTS scene - there's lots of RTS games, and Relic (my favorite RTS dev) doesn't really put a lot of focus on trying to break into the e-sports RTS field, because it knows Starcraft will never be unseated. Instead, with Dawn of War, Homeworld 2, Company of Heroes, they focus on making a game that is FUN.
NS2 will never be serious e-sports material, and will never be popular enough to drive sales and keep the company afloat based on that premise. Player counts have already sagged dramatically after only a month.
FPS games aren't what they used to be. NS1 was an FPS game based off of the concept of multiplayer FPS games in the late 90s. NS2 feels like that. This is a dead end. Games stopped being made like that long ago for a good reason, because people grew bored of them. Every attempt to capitalize and revive the genre has failed considerably. Games aren't about competing, they're more about fun. Do you think EA made BF3 thinking it was going to be an e-sport and have lots of competition? God no, it was made to be fun to the average player, and it's sustained a high playercount for over a year because of it.
So my 'creative control' of NS2 would start with axing the premise of NS2, that it needs to kowtow to the impossible-to-please clan-tag wearing nostalgic diehards of the 90s. They're an insignificant bunch who will never bring sales. The game needs to be FUN. It needs to take the concept of alien vs. marine and run with it. Prometheus came out earlier this year, and showed that the space horror genre is still alive and well, and NS2 needed to seize upon that desire.
At its heart, the concept of the game needs to be switched. It makes absolutely zero sense - and really underscores the misdirection of the game's design - that marines are considered disposable and aliens need to constantly be running away to escape with their lives. Marines need to be the slower, more deliberate antagonists of the game. The alien design should be defensively-focused, and they should be handled like one would expect a hive-mind species of easily replaced drones to be handled - by being disposable. This is the concept that made the Aliens franchise a cultural staple and is what NS should've always been about. This is the concept that all successful space horror games have undertaken as well.
The game would be played in larger maps (it's distressing that the NS2 maps are as small, if not smaller than NS1 maps) and the pacing would be engineered towards 35-45 minute games for the 'average' length.
Marines would progress through levels of 'hard tech', where they get deliberate, obvious hardware upgrades. Rather than a magical +30% weapon damage upgrade, they'd instead actually get a new rifle.
Aliens, on the other hand, would be rapidly deployed and be able to adapt to any situation extremely quickly. Unlike the marines which rely on singular technologies to improve the team, aliens would be based around developing genetic points for themselves. As you gain genetic points, you can invest them into dozens of kinds of personal upgrades that change how you play the game. For example, if the marines are investing in incendiary weapons, you can evolve a carapace that shatters easily from concussive and melee damage, but can resist flame attacks.
I think that about sums up where I think NS2 went wrong and how it should've been done differently. It's the wrong game, developed for the wrong crowd, and it continues what became a series of increasingly absurd design decisions of NS1, and it doesn't do enough to actually feel like the second title in a franchise - it feels more like NS1 v5.0.
Well, that was a depressing read, because NS2 will never be anywhere near that. The moddability of the game could lead to something that far surpasses the core game though, in the same way that NS or CS surpass vanilla Half-Life Deathmatch.
Right now the difficulty in using the editor makes creating larger maps an extremely daunting task.
UWE Needs to some heavy expansion with their staff numbers. Seems like they don't have the manpower to get things done as quickly as they could/should be. It also seems like they need more perspective in their design decisions.
for 95% ofyour change suggestions I am so happy that you guys are not in charge of game design decisions ^^ while I am not agreeing with flayra in total too, most of the stuff named here is nonsense...
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto-->Ending Game Map Objectives<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
If you got more than 85% of the map. An Objective is spawned for max. 1-2 minutes - if reached by the leading team, the game is DONE.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto-->Map related interactivity<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto-->Make Onos the ultimate rare boss enemy you gotta trick<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
You don't want to go for the "buildings on the whole map" style? Then go for the "Beam in heavy tanks" style. Just a little bit of overall style variation. It's always the same tech. Always. So boring.
I can't weld anyone cause they are jumping and running liek maniacs. More dancing with skulks than wrestling them. I'm an exo watch me rotate like a discoball. Beeing a egg is boring. Let me squish around a bit. yay onos stomp time to chill on the floor.
<!--quoteo(post=2034330:date=Nov 25 2012, 01:03 PM:name=Timarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Timarius @ Nov 25 2012, 01:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034330"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If? What do you mean if? Everything's coded in Lua, and very easy to change. After I get together a big list of things to change, I'll be making a balance mod. Unless I find myself too busy.
And as soon as I get reacquainted with modelling... EVERYBODY GETS A TOP HAT, MONOCLE, AND MOUSTACHE! EVERYBODY!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
correction: everything is NOT coded in lua. the engine and other low level functions such as netcode are done in c++. you wouldnt be able to compile a EXE with lua. lua handles the easy things like the game mechanics, in game gui, etc.
I would add back the ability to teleport to hives through the movement/shift structure like it was in ns1. also, add back the ability to change your upgrades back and forth as needed.
Comments
2) Console with tab-completion.
3) List of favourite servers that don't rely from master-server.
2. Earn exierience based on score to earn ranks.
3. Slow down respawn time.
4. Add acid rocket like skill as 4th hive ability. Read 4 hives, not 2 mature.
5. Give proper crosshairs to all weapons.
6. Skulks being able to clench their teeth into marines by holding the mouse. <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121605" target="_blank">see post</a>
7. Lower hive health/armor, increase egg hp/armor.
8. Let marines electrify rts or powernodes.
9. Give onos devour back!
Whatever balance problems these changes create should be addressed without altering these game mechanics.
So, 3/4 of these points are "make stuff like it was back in the beta". Hey, at least I'm not saying "make it like NS1". And I am actually saying stuff based on experience rather than wild speculation. And I love NS2, and only want to see it become a better game. <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><3<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Great read man. Like almost all of your ideas.
Many people agree with the removal of armor healing. It's just over the top. Additionally, I myself have suggested that the current armories only be build within a radius of command stations, but then have a smaller, weaker, and cheaper version of armories available to build anywhere on the map.
Good thinking on the changes to scan. I always thought the radius was a bit gigantic. And it definitely makes sense to keep it in line with shades.
I also like your arms lab model. Smooths out the progression and scaling of tech, and requires marines to get that third TP! The numbers on the buffs themselves might need a bit of tweaking if this were to be done.
Lastly your hydra idea is interesting. Invincible sounds a bit ridiculous. Are you saying that shooting them has no effect? That in itself seems like a bad idea, but I thought about it and it might actually make them much more useful if they could be shot down, but instead of dying completely like they do now, they would just slump over and become inactive, and would require healing or just a 30 sec cooldown before they sprung up again. Would make them quite a nuisance. There would still have to be a way to remove them permanently if the marines end up taking over that particular room. Maybe building a power node would kill them for good?
I wouldn't be opposed to that (though I don't know if 30 seconds would be ideal--maybe 20 seconds but healing can reduce that time by half? Dunno). Perhaps shooting them disables them for 3 seconds, meaning a dedicated Marine would have to provide "suppressing fire" to get around to the Gorge. I just dislike that the 3 PRes "investment" is just a waste as it is right now.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There would still have to be a way to remove them permanently if the marines end up taking over that particular room. Maybe building a power node would kill them for good?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I may have mis-worded it at the time but I meant that if the Gorge or a Cyst (or built Hive) isn't in proximity, then they would die off. No "battery" to power them, of sorts. I imagine a Gorge could be a right nuisance if he stays in a clogged vent within radius of them. Hmm. My idea would actually reintroduce vent-camping Gorges, though they'd still be much less annoying in NS2 with the tech point win/loss system.
Honestly, there are things I feel like should be done, there are puppy tails I suspect are issues, I don't want the game to be ripped apart and changed a whole lot all of a sudden, and I REALLY don't want all of the NS2 changes from NS1 rolled back to the stuff from NS1. NS1 still exists, this game should not be that one. It's too similar already in my opinion.
Maybe have it so that Hydras only come back to life if they remain on infestation for the entire time they are dead?
A cyst-less hydra will survive until it dies. A cysted hydra will keep coming back until the cyst is removed and the infestation from it has receded.
EDIT: Oops, Syriquez already beat me to it.
Give gorge a real role
Make fades scary
Remove SGs
Add HMG
Give bombard whips an arc style effect
Shrink skulk model and hitbox size whilst adding proper wall jumping
Remove the stupid effect on flashlights that blinds friendly players
Take aliens back to more upgrade possibilities.
Basically revert to an improved version of NS1 rather than a stripped down version
I mean, I love to play Fade but don't kid yourself that it's anything more than a slightly tougher Skulk right now. And Aliens don't need a slightly tougher Skulk. That's pointless.
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As for Lerks, I agree. I feel they're right in the perfect place. I wish Spores was slightly wider than it is but it's still adequate.
Anyway, I'd change Fade vs. Shotguns so it wasn't a ridiculous 2-shot endeavor for the Shotgun to kill a Fade.
Why do you hate aliens so much?
I mean, I love to play Fade but don't kid yourself that it's anything more than a slightly tougher Skulk right now. And Aliens don't need a slightly tougher Skulk. That's pointless.
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As for Lerks, I agree. I feel they're right in the perfect place. I wish Spores was slightly wider than it is but it's still adequate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why does a fade have to be good at everything? A marine with a gl might be very good vs static defenses (excluding whips) but very poor vs skulks who get close. Fades are neither meant to combat exos nor kill structures, that's what they are. But a fade is extremly effective in distracting marines by simple blinking past them.
That's a real selling point in an FPS:
<b><i>Don't bother actually fighting your enemies! Just run past them like a shooting gallery duck! Oh what fun and innovation!</i></b>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why does a fade have to be good at everything?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you failed to read a damn bit of my reasoning, solely reacting to what seems to be the first sentence of anything I wrote. Fantastic job.
I said nothing about Fades being good "at everything". I said they need to be good at <i>something</i>. Right now, they are a larger, easier-to-hit Skulk that takes 2 Shotgun blasts instead of 1. My change? Doesn't remove their vulnerability. Gives them something they can actually do that makes them valuable compared to saving another 25 res for Onos. I love my Fade but I'm not naive enough to suggest I play it in any situation other than one where I'm already going to win in 5 minutes.
Your statement completely overlooks both League of Legends and DOTA2, if what you said were true then the figures of the recent QuakeLive games at Dreamhack wouldn't have garnered less than a 10th of League of Legends.
To say this game has a low skillcap is biased, in relation to other competitive games I would put it up there with Starcraft2 and Quake3 from a mechanical standpoint. I come from TFC and AGMod and I can still appreciate the effort that NS2 takes, to think that the ceiling need be higher to increase the player base is stupid when all it will do is create a larger rift in the community. It's easy enough as is to go 20-1 as marines or aliens, if you want to make the community more insular then a slow death awaits you.
Most of what I want changed i've posted up;
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124379" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=124379</a>
If you add the HMG as a higher tech alternative to the shotgun then you can reduce the shotguns late game power (and thus prevent fades from being so pathetic) by making it an earlier tech weapon. Much of the issue with the shotty being so brutal is that its the only upgraded direct combat weapon that a marine has access to.
<b>Cheaper alien lifeforms with less abilities that can later purchase abilities.</b> Example, a 10-pres lerk with only bite, but can later purchase spikes, gas and/or umbra for certain amount of pres. This creates more gameplay choices for alien players from start to finish. We'll see less lifeform explosions, since lifeforms will all be used more often from the start (albeit not as powerful as they will be later on). This will also allow more evolutions to be viable to more lifeforms. Example, celerity is redundant on a fade. However if the default fade only cost 15 pres, but had no blink or shadow step, then celerity and even camo might be a viable loadout on the basic fade (which right now are near useless on him). Again, more gameplay choices.
<b>Get rid of marine passive upgrades, and in its place add in more purchasable gameplay items.</b> This adds in more interesting gameplay choices for marine players, and gets rid of the boring and free power swing for marines late game. Since I'm also suggesting that aliens purchase their abilities, this equals out on both sides. So instead of getting a free +10-30% damage increase for weapons, you purchase an HMG, that fires slower but does +X% more damage/DPS ... plus does heavy damage. And you can purchase armor piercing ammunition (<i>this acts as a purchasable buff, similar to evolutions like carapace...when it did cost res</i>) that provides puncture damage to all your bullet firing weapons.
Instead of free 20+ armor boost increments, marines instead purchase an armored vest, helmet and gauntlet/greave combo...each providing that +20 armor boost. Now since they are distinct items, each could be made to provide further gameplay bonuses, such as the vest negating the 25% bonus of puncture damage or the helmet doubling as a gas mask and reducing gas damage (would need more gas damage sources, heal spray, umbra (less damage than spores) basically anything gaseous on alien side would need a gas damage component).
<b>Upgradable res towers.</b> Since I'm suggesting that players purchase everything that were once free upgrades/abilities, comms should have the ability to upgraded res towers to provide more pres per tick to players so that they have the res to purchase more and stronger upgrades/items/abilities as the game goes on (instead of players passively getting stronger as the game goes on).
<b>More counters.</b> Not hard counters, but if I see the other team favoring one thing too much, there should be something to that we could do to counter it. So if marines are favoring shotguns and grenade launchers, aliens can get an evolution that provides them a "clog-like" trait that caps all damage from a single source to 50 damage. Or if there are a lot of fades, marines can focus more on getting those armored vests to cancel out the puncture damage bonus.
And as soon as I get reacquainted with modelling... EVERYBODY GETS A TOP HAT, MONOCLE, AND MOUSTACHE! EVERYBODY!
That made the fade overpowered, but the fun value was immense.
Yeah so I would find a way to put that back in and maintain balance.
NS2 will never be serious e-sports material, and will never be popular enough to drive sales and keep the company afloat based on that premise. Player counts have already sagged dramatically after only a month.
FPS games aren't what they used to be. NS1 was an FPS game based off of the concept of multiplayer FPS games in the late 90s. NS2 feels like that. This is a dead end. Games stopped being made like that long ago for a good reason, because people grew bored of them. Every attempt to capitalize and revive the genre has failed considerably. Games aren't about competing, they're more about fun. Do you think EA made BF3 thinking it was going to be an e-sport and have lots of competition? God no, it was made to be fun to the average player, and it's sustained a high playercount for over a year because of it.
So my 'creative control' of NS2 would start with axing the premise of NS2, that it needs to kowtow to the impossible-to-please clan-tag wearing nostalgic diehards of the 90s. They're an insignificant bunch who will never bring sales. The game needs to be FUN. It needs to take the concept of alien vs. marine and run with it. Prometheus came out earlier this year, and showed that the space horror genre is still alive and well, and NS2 needed to seize upon that desire.
At its heart, the concept of the game needs to be switched. It makes absolutely zero sense - and really underscores the misdirection of the game's design - that marines are considered disposable and aliens need to constantly be running away to escape with their lives. Marines need to be the slower, more deliberate antagonists of the game. The alien design should be defensively-focused, and they should be handled like one would expect a hive-mind species of easily replaced drones to be handled - by being disposable. This is the concept that made the Aliens franchise a cultural staple and is what NS should've always been about. This is the concept that all successful space horror games have undertaken as well.
The game would be played in larger maps (it's distressing that the NS2 maps are as small, if not smaller than NS1 maps) and the pacing would be engineered towards 35-45 minute games for the 'average' length.
Marines would progress through levels of 'hard tech', where they get deliberate, obvious hardware upgrades. Rather than a magical +30% weapon damage upgrade, they'd instead actually get a new rifle.
Aliens, on the other hand, would be rapidly deployed and be able to adapt to any situation extremely quickly. Unlike the marines which rely on singular technologies to improve the team, aliens would be based around developing genetic points for themselves. As you gain genetic points, you can invest them into dozens of kinds of personal upgrades that change how you play the game. For example, if the marines are investing in incendiary weapons, you can evolve a carapace that shatters easily from concussive and melee damage, but can resist flame attacks.
I think that about sums up where I think NS2 went wrong and how it should've been done differently. It's the wrong game, developed for the wrong crowd, and it continues what became a series of increasingly absurd design decisions of NS1, and it doesn't do enough to actually feel like the second title in a franchise - it feels more like NS1 v5.0.
Right now the difficulty in using the editor makes creating larger maps an extremely daunting task.
UWE Needs to some heavy expansion with their staff numbers. Seems like they don't have the manpower to get things done as quickly as they could/should be. It also seems like they need more perspective in their design decisions.
and then start changing stuff from there
while I am not agreeing with flayra in total too, most of the stuff named here is nonsense...
If you got more than 85% of the map. An Objective is spawned for max. 1-2 minutes - if reached by the leading team, the game is DONE.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto-->Map related interactivity<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Weldables, Vacuums, Exploding stuff..
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto-->Remove Alien Khamm<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
They got a Hivemind, no boss.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto-->Make Onos the ultimate rare boss enemy you gotta trick<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I'm not even scared of that fat ######.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto-->Make Gorges REWARDING<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Nobody gives a ###### when im healing or defends me.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto-->Visual Weapon Indicators<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Class 3 = HMG
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto-->More interesting room conquering<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I can't even barricade or weld ###### together.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto-->Suit Playstyle<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
You don't want to go for the "buildings on the whole map" style? Then go for the "Beam in heavy tanks" style. Just a little bit of overall style variation. It's always the same tech. Always. So boring.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto-->Smoother gameplay<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I can't weld anyone cause they are jumping and running liek maniacs.
More dancing with skulks than wrestling them.
I'm an exo watch me rotate like a discoball.
Beeing a egg is boring. Let me squish around a bit.
yay onos stomp time to chill on the floor.
And as soon as I get reacquainted with modelling... EVERYBODY GETS A TOP HAT, MONOCLE, AND MOUSTACHE! EVERYBODY!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
correction: everything is NOT coded in lua. the engine and other low level functions such as netcode are done in c++. you wouldnt be able to compile a EXE with lua. lua handles the easy things like the game mechanics, in game gui, etc.
I would add back the ability to teleport to hives through the movement/shift structure like it was in ns1. also, add back the ability to change your upgrades back and forth as needed.