Yeah, when 230/1 came out, my framerate fell through the floor. I'd been getting a steady 25-35 on lowest in 229, but as soon as it patched to 230 I went to 20-30, but with up to 50-60ms waiting for render thread. I know the framerate was hampering me before, but with the additional lag from the render thread delay I can't hit a thing and am left with pretty much no choice outside of gorging. It's a bit better since 232, but still not as good as it was before.
Also, Imbalanxd telling fana to l2p wins everything ever, and I printed this thread out and put it on my fridge. I need more laughter in my life.
<!--quoteo(post=2032000:date=Nov 22 2012, 03:48 AM:name=Gliss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gliss @ Nov 22 2012, 03:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032000"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->tracking a Skulk at 120 FPS and then suddenly dropping to 80 during the middle of a fight - a new player probably won't even notice this, let alone realize it as a deciding factor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i would eat someone babies if i could get my fps to <b>DROP</b> to 80fps in a fight lol. i'm lucky if it stays above 25, but I guess that's my fault for having a 2 year-old AMD. this just makes me miss "fps_max 125" (and getting that no matter what is on my screen) in ns1 so much more.... it's disappointing that CPU power has to be such a deciding factor in this game right now.
<!--quoteo(post=2032000:date=Nov 22 2012, 09:48 AM:name=Gliss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gliss @ Nov 22 2012, 09:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032000"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->tracking a Skulk at 120 FPS and then suddenly dropping to 80 during the middle of a fight - a new player probably won't even notice this, let alone realize it as a deciding factor. same thing applies to something such as the scan sensors. new players probably even appreciate the massive white icons, but they are probably one of the most frustrating things to deal with as a marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why only new players don't limit their FPS to something reasonable.
<!--quoteo(post=2032064:date=Nov 22 2012, 12:28 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Nov 22 2012, 12:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032064"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can't we just do a simple mod to test hitreg? Like spwan a marine bot that aim perfectly, and spawn skulk in front of him, something like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hit registration can be easily tested by comparing how many client side hits the server disagrees with.
<!--quoteo(post=2032053:date=Nov 22 2012, 02:06 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Nov 22 2012, 02:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032053"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is why only new players don't limit their FPS to something reasonable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 120fps isn't reasonable, got it
<!--quoteo(post=2032087:date=Nov 22 2012, 03:14 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Nov 22 2012, 03:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, I don't want to think about what kind of behemoth would be required to run a current generation game reliably at 120 FPS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not to mention how quicker you'd have to upgrade/play in low graphical settings to keep up.
Wow... fana coming out and saying this is pretty significant IMO.
I've felt the same way recently, since ~230 but I thought it was just me. I hate to say it but it might be loss of FPS in fights; I'm not entirely sure.
Sometimes shots which should be connecting don't, and sometimes everything works as intended...
<!--quoteo(post=2031467:date=Nov 21 2012, 04:19 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Nov 21 2012, 04:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031467"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would love to know if there's a problem here.
In the past, when we've had hit-reg problems, people have made videos showing the problem exactly and that a) convinced us that there was a problem and b) allowed us to fix it. So if anyone can show any problem exactly, that would be incredibly helpful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
okay, will make some videos again... =)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-ahQ2jSAQg&feature=plcp" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-ahQ2jSAQg&feature=plcp</a> as you can see, no damage numbers after the second hit (still no number no damage?).
in the next video, can you see that there are 7 lmg hits, but the damage numbers shown 60... but 70 damage are done.?!? the skulk was full health, and had 20hp left! <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87GWCP5KXF0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87GWCP5KXF0</a>
for all upcoming videos the same: 30 ticks, 30 ping, around 60fps for the record
*edit* But all in all, after 2 hours frame by frame watch the "b232 hitreg" seems not that bad. The only major miss was the sg in my first video. And i noticed a few times a differnez in the damage numbers and the truly done damage.
I just experienced this as well. This is only anecdotal mind you, but I was playing in this server and on one map I felt good as a skulk. Then after the server changed maps, suddenly it felt like every single marine was becoming MUCH MUCH better at aiming. Inconsistent hitreg seems to be the best explanation to me here, because it's quite impossible that marines who used to miss a lot suddenly hit so often.
PErsonally, I have avoided fire from three marines shooting at me in their base using their buildings as cover with regen as an upgrade. I do think there might be serious problem with hitreg when I'm able to avoid the combined fire of 2-3 marines for around 20 seconds. I refuse to believe the marines I was fighting against were that bad.
This is of course anecdotal as I don't have a video recording of it.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=2032166:date=Nov 22 2012, 05:44 AM:name=SiGGi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SiGGi @ Nov 22 2012, 05:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032166"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->okay, will make some videos again... =)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-ahQ2jSAQg&feature=plcp" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-ahQ2jSAQg&feature=plcp</a> as you can see, no damage numbers after the second hit (still no number no damage?).
in the next video, can you see that there are 7 lmg hits, but the damage numbers shown 60... but 70 damage are done.?!? the skulk was full health, and had 20hp left! <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87GWCP5KXF0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87GWCP5KXF0</a>
for all upcoming videos the same: 30 ticks, 30 ping, around 60fps for the record
*edit* But all in all, after 2 hours frame by frame watch the "b232 hitreg" seems not that bad. The only major miss was the sg in my first video. And i noticed a few times a differnez in the damage numbers and the truly done damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Damage numbers not being accurate is less concerning than actual hits not being registered.. That first video with the shotgun, the second shot with no damage numbers, did you confirm that the lerk took zero damage?
I was just dubbing it in Vegas and found that it took 20 rounds to kill a skulk standing still..
8 rounds wasted afterwards due to my reaction time I guess.. And ofc, it includes some Tane frag video music for lolz where I almost die to some skulks like a tard.
The quality is kinda poor. If this sort of thing helps at all, (shooting at skulks standing still with what seems to be roughly 50% noreg) I can record this in higher quality and with more detail.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited November 2012
Videos like this definitely help, and having it in higher quality and slow mo helps even more. For instance.. its hard to tell, but it looks like you had 47 rounds in the mag by the time u actually hit him/produced blood, and some of the mid 30's look as if they _may_ be too far left/off of the model.. but its really hard to be sure. Not saying your video doesnt prove anything, but its really hard to be sure whats going on Definitely looks like the skulk's butt area is dropping rounds lol.
Well, in full resolution on Vegas I can see I am hitting every shot. Roughly hitting his back leg/body center over and over. Since this helps I will endeavor to get it uploaded in a much higher quality.
<!--quoteo(post=2032444:date=Nov 22 2012, 04:21 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Nov 22 2012, 04:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032444"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Damage numbers not being accurate is less concerning than actual hits not being registered.. That first video with the shotgun, the second shot with no damage numbers, did you confirm that the lerk took zero damage?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Confirmed. 0 damage for the 2nd shot. In the rest of the video I did around 120 more damage to kill the lerk. Was not a cara lerk and full on health. But I recorded a lot today and that was the only not registered shot I noticed.
Gotta correct this, if damage numbers are incorrect that is just as big if not a BIGGER issue, damage numbers are now server side, if your logging damage there that isnt getting applied, that indicates other issues outside of just hitreg being a factor...
The importance of this issue cannot be understated.
Major FPS drops seem to occur when the combat is more close-up.
Shooting at a skulk across the room is pretty simple (as it should be)... but as soon as I have to whirl my view around and track the skulk within about 10 feet I get some pretty noticeable FPS drops. Not sure if there is a hitreg issue because it's hard to test... but I've noticed that I start to personally feel like there is bad hitreg when in close-combat.
<!--quoteo(post=2032534:date=Nov 23 2012, 09:36 AM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Nov 23 2012, 09:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032534"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My rego has been 100% perfect. I can get 80-120fps ingame but lock it manually down to 60.
In fights, it is spiking between 40-60, previously I would always 100% maintain 60fps. It's always like the game is skipping or something I donno...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> same guy who thought hitreg was perfect when we had the update view bug :p *cough*
<!--quoteo(post=2032622:date=Nov 23 2012, 11:53 AM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Nov 23 2012, 11:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032622"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->same guy who thought hitreg was perfect when we had the update view bug :p *cough*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know that I've noticed many hitreg problems, but today I was seeing a lot of stuttering as an alien while moving. The faster I went, the more pronounced it became. Looked at my FPS and it was solid, checked the net stats and they were fine - the game just looked like my FPS was tanking whenever I went fast.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
The problem described in the OP has been vastly reduced in b232. I don't know what they did, but I guess it wasn't mentioned in the changelog. It's still far from perfect, as Treffnix's video shows, but at least I don't feel constantly frustrated as marine anymore.
<!--quoteo(post=2032769:date=Nov 23 2012, 04:43 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Nov 23 2012, 04:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032769"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem described in the OP has been vastly reduced in b232. I don't know what they did, but I guess it wasn't mentioned in the changelog. It's still far from perfect, as Treffnix's video shows, but at least I don't feel constantly frustrated as marine anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh lucky you then. I've still all but given up on hitting anything as Marine these days. Just an exercise in frustration when I have to roll the dice hoping my tracking actually means something. Though I will agree that it's better than B230, but that just changed it from "why am I still playing?" to banging my head against the wall every so often.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited November 2012
<!--quoteo(post=2032537:date=Nov 22 2012, 02:41 PM:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon @ Nov 22 2012, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032537"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gotta correct this, if damage numbers are incorrect that is just as big if not a BIGGER issue, damage numbers are now server side, if your logging damage there that isnt getting applied, that indicates other issues outside of just hitreg being a factor...
The importance of this issue cannot be understated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Incorrect, from my point of view. After a conversation in person with Brian and Dushan, there is a potential (read: very rare network case) for dmg numbers to get dropped. (as some vids from glissy have shown, despite damage being successful)
Therefore they aren't the best method for diagnosing actual hitreg issues. Damage numbers not showing would also be multitudes easier to fix than something like a true hit registration issue such as what occurs from prediction errors (what seems be happening in those vids) I get your point of there being another issue related to network traffic or handshakes etc that could be causing this for all issues.. but given the network priority damage numbers have i dont think thats the case.
@Siggi thanks for the info man.
<!--quoteo(post=2032534:date=Nov 22 2012, 02:36 PM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Nov 22 2012, 02:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032534"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My rego has been 100% perfect. I can get 80-120fps ingame but lock it manually down to 60.
In fights, it is spiking between 40-60, previously I would always 100% maintain 60fps. It's always like the game is skipping or something I donno...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maxfps command or vsync will both create stuttering for you currently. Something about the transition from 60 to 30 fps. When the game renders 59 fps or less it automatically drops down to 30 fps (As vsync is designed to do) but while doing this , massive stuttering occurs that you can observe with profile turned on. I've reported this to Max already in the past, and many others in the tech support forums experience this. My suggestion: dont limit the frames in the meantime :)
<!--quoteo(post=2032684:date=Nov 22 2012, 08:20 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 22 2012, 08:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know that I've noticed many hitreg problems, but today I was seeing a lot of stuttering as an alien while moving. The faster I went, the more pronounced it became. Looked at my FPS and it was solid, checked the net stats and they were fine - the game just looked like my FPS was tanking whenever I went fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've noticed this too as a lerk with celerity... trying to track it down, if you find reliable repro steps please let me know!
The 2 biggest problems for hitreg seem to be flinching animations and performance. The first is rather easy to fix, just get rid of them, or keep the hitbox the same. You can see in locklear's video the first clip where a skulk is hard to hit even when he's standing still because both his model and hitbox twitch around like crazy.
Comments
Also, Imbalanxd telling fana to l2p wins everything ever, and I printed this thread out and put it on my fridge. I need more laughter in my life.
i would eat someone babies if i could get my fps to <b>DROP</b> to 80fps in a fight lol. i'm lucky if it stays above 25, but I guess that's my fault for having a 2 year-old AMD. this just makes me miss "fps_max 125" (and getting that no matter what is on my screen) in ns1 so much more.... it's disappointing that CPU power has to be such a deciding factor in this game right now.
This is why only new players don't limit their FPS to something reasonable.
Hit registration can be easily tested by comparing how many client side hits the server disagrees with.
120fps isn't reasonable, got it
Well, I don't want to think about what kind of behemoth would be required to run a current generation game reliably at 120 FPS.
Not to mention how quicker you'd have to upgrade/play in low graphical settings to keep up.
I've felt the same way recently, since ~230 but I thought it was just me. I hate to say it but it might be loss of FPS in fights; I'm not entirely sure.
Sometimes shots which should be connecting don't, and sometimes everything works as intended...
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->Less trolling please. --Zaggy<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
In the past, when we've had hit-reg problems, people have made videos showing the problem exactly and that a) convinced us that there was a problem and b) allowed us to fix it. So if anyone can show any problem exactly, that would be incredibly helpful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
okay, will make some videos again... =)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-ahQ2jSAQg&feature=plcp" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-ahQ2jSAQg&feature=plcp</a>
as you can see, no damage numbers after the second hit (still no number no damage?).
in the next video, can you see that there are 7 lmg hits, but the damage numbers shown 60... but 70 damage are done.?!? the skulk was full health, and had 20hp left!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87GWCP5KXF0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87GWCP5KXF0</a>
for all upcoming videos the same: 30 ticks, 30 ping, around 60fps for the record
*edit* But all in all, after 2 hours frame by frame watch the "b232 hitreg" seems not that bad. The only major miss was the sg in my first video.
And i noticed a few times a differnez in the damage numbers and the truly done damage.
This is of course anecdotal as I don't have a video recording of it.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-ahQ2jSAQg&feature=plcp" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-ahQ2jSAQg&feature=plcp</a>
as you can see, no damage numbers after the second hit (still no number no damage?).
in the next video, can you see that there are 7 lmg hits, but the damage numbers shown 60... but 70 damage are done.?!? the skulk was full health, and had 20hp left!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87GWCP5KXF0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87GWCP5KXF0</a>
for all upcoming videos the same: 30 ticks, 30 ping, around 60fps for the record
*edit* But all in all, after 2 hours frame by frame watch the "b232 hitreg" seems not that bad. The only major miss was the sg in my first video.
And i noticed a few times a differnez in the damage numbers and the truly done damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damage numbers not being accurate is less concerning than actual hits not being registered..
That first video with the shotgun, the second shot with no damage numbers, did you confirm that the lerk took zero damage?
I was just dubbing it in Vegas and found that it took 20 rounds to kill a skulk standing still..
8 rounds wasted afterwards due to my reaction time I guess.. And ofc, it includes some Tane frag video music for lolz where I almost die to some skulks like a tard.
The quality is kinda poor. If this sort of thing helps at all, (shooting at skulks standing still with what seems to be roughly 50% noreg) I can record this in higher quality and with more detail.
<a href="http://www.twitch.tv/l2pns2/b/341452008" target="_blank">http://www.twitch.tv/l2pns2/b/341452008</a>
For instance.. its hard to tell, but it looks like you had 47 rounds in the mag by the time u actually hit him/produced blood, and some of the mid 30's look as if they _may_ be too far left/off of the model.. but its really hard to be sure.
Not saying your video doesnt prove anything, but its really hard to be sure whats going on
Definitely looks like the skulk's butt area is dropping rounds lol.
Thanks
Probably tonight!
That first video with the shotgun, the second shot with no damage numbers, did you confirm that the lerk took zero damage?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Confirmed. 0 damage for the 2nd shot. In the rest of the video I did around 120 more damage to kill the lerk. Was not a cara lerk and full on health. But I recorded a lot today and that was the only not registered shot I noticed.
In fights, it is spiking between 40-60, previously I would always 100% maintain 60fps. It's always like the game is skipping or something I donno...
The importance of this issue cannot be understated.
Shooting at a skulk across the room is pretty simple (as it should be)... but as soon as I have to whirl my view around and track the skulk within about 10 feet I get some pretty noticeable FPS drops. Not sure if there is a hitreg issue because it's hard to test... but I've noticed that I start to personally feel like there is bad hitreg when in close-combat.
In fights, it is spiking between 40-60, previously I would always 100% maintain 60fps. It's always like the game is skipping or something I donno...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
same guy who thought hitreg was perfect when we had the update view bug :p *cough*
I'm just a bad :P
Heh lucky you then. I've still all but given up on hitting anything as Marine these days. Just an exercise in frustration when I have to roll the dice hoping my tracking actually means something. Though I will agree that it's better than B230, but that just changed it from "why am I still playing?" to banging my head against the wall every so often.
The importance of this issue cannot be understated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Incorrect, from my point of view.
After a conversation in person with Brian and Dushan, there is a potential (read: very rare network case) for dmg numbers to get dropped. (as some vids from glissy have shown, despite damage being successful)
Therefore they aren't the best method for diagnosing actual hitreg issues.
Damage numbers not showing would also be multitudes easier to fix than something like a true hit registration issue such as what occurs from prediction errors (what seems be happening in those vids)
I get your point of there being another issue related to network traffic or handshakes etc that could be causing this for all issues.. but given the network priority damage numbers have i dont think thats the case.
@Siggi thanks for the info man.
<!--quoteo(post=2032534:date=Nov 22 2012, 02:36 PM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Nov 22 2012, 02:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032534"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My rego has been 100% perfect. I can get 80-120fps ingame but lock it manually down to 60.
In fights, it is spiking between 40-60, previously I would always 100% maintain 60fps. It's always like the game is skipping or something I donno...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maxfps command or vsync will both create stuttering for you currently. Something about the transition from 60 to 30 fps. When the game renders 59 fps or less it automatically drops down to 30 fps (As vsync is designed to do) but while doing this , massive stuttering occurs that you can observe with profile turned on. I've reported this to Max already in the past, and many others in the tech support forums experience this. My suggestion: dont limit the frames in the meantime :)
<!--quoteo(post=2032684:date=Nov 22 2012, 08:20 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 22 2012, 08:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know that I've noticed many hitreg problems, but today I was seeing a lot of stuttering as an alien while moving. The faster I went, the more pronounced it became. Looked at my FPS and it was solid, checked the net stats and they were fine - the game just looked like my FPS was tanking whenever I went fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've noticed this too as a lerk with celerity... trying to track it down, if you find reliable repro steps please let me know!