<!--quoteo(post=2028447:date=Nov 19 2012, 01:42 AM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Nov 19 2012, 01:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028447"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do not see anyone asking for a system to defend harvesters, they are even more vulnerable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The reason being that a solo marine would rarely be able to take out a harvester without getting rolled by a skulk. Remember, it's aliens that have the speed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Taking out extractors is the one thing skulks are good for late game and should not be removed. As is if you can't get a marine to a extractors before one skulk takes it down it means your marines are not very good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It's not taking out anything. Skulks would still be able to 'harass' by taking out the power instead of the extractor. The end result is the same, res stops flowing. The difference is that there is a second step if you want to take out the extractor.
Marines can't be expected to have phase gates at every extractor. Furthermore, most marines aren't sitting around in base waiting for a skulk to start chewing on a node. The reason electrification was brought it was because it was too easy for a ZERO RES alien to take out a extractor. It takes less than 30 seconds for a skulk to kill an extractor, and unless a marine is sitting at base, they won't be in position to stop it in most cases.
It only takes ~15 seconds to kill a power node. After 15 seconds, you are still free to kill the extractor. Even if you don't, the end result is the same. No res flow from the node. If you are shrewd you don't kill the extractor right away, but instead wait for the marine to come and repair it. Then you kill him AND the extractor.
We had the same debate when NS was a mod, and they ended up adding it since it is just too quick and easy to kill extractors with zero res lifeforms. What makes it better in NS2 is that you can disable the res node, so unlike in NS1 skulks can still kill the extractor.
I can't really imagine a price point for upgrading res to electric res in the way it's being described right now that won't either make actually upgrading not viable or be so cheap you always upgrade.
It's an extremely useless upgrade, because it doesn't actually protect your res inflow, it just possibly prevents you from losing 10 res... so 10 res would be too expensive, but I feel like 5 res is silly.
I would rather have powernodes electrified to prevent single skulks from chewing down tech point nodes when the marines push a hive. It would prevent the basetrading to a certain amount. I remember in NS1, if your hive was under attack every single alien had to help defend it.
you can't/shouldn't balance against lack of player skill. if one team is not as good as the other team, that team should lose. don't give them a mechanic to turtle and make their loss slower. that's what electrify did.
Let me tell you how this works out: Skulk kills stuff, Marines rebuild it, Comm electrifies stuff, Skulk now needs a gorge to heal him in order to kill it. Teamwork is a skill. If you want to promote rewards to skilled players you are for electrify.
In the case of baserushes, you hardly have skulks chewing down powernodes during an assault because a sitting skulk on a power node is dead meat. You alwas have the oni kill the powernode and electrify doesnt do much against an onos.
<!--quoteo(post=2028945:date=Nov 19 2012, 12:28 PM:name=bERt0r)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bERt0r @ Nov 19 2012, 12:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028945"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let me tell you how this works out: Skulk kills stuff, Marines rebuild it, Comm electrifies stuff, Skulk now needs a gorge to heal him in order to kill it. Teamwork is a skill. If you want to promote rewards to skilled players you are for electrify.
In the case of baserushes, you hardly have skulks chewing down powernodes during an assault because a sitting skulk on a power node is dead meat. You alwas have the oni kill the powernode and electrify doesnt do much against an onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So what you're saying is, Aliens should need teamwork to defend and attack but Marines should be able to do whatever they want. Riiiiight.
I think the route of having something in-game automatically do something for you should always be the weaker method. Skulks are agile creatures that work off of deception and speed. Those are pretty cool abilities to work with if you know how to use them effectively. By that, one thing you have to take into account is that you're not so strong in big Braveheart cannon fodder groups; however, you can quite easily reach undefended resource nodes.
On the other hand, marines easily have all the tools to set up a strong defense when they mean to. I know because I've DONE it as Marine commander. It also provides some incentive to only take hold of territory that you can maintain; setting up more of a "border push".
I would always be for the encouragement of empowering players over buildings. I really like how incredibly useless sentries are -EXCEPT- when they're covering marines. I like how most alien defenses don't work well on their own. I like how the game's more powerful weaponry requires a -player- to devote skill and resources towards it, and the game's few NPCs are really only there to support players, and could never stand up to another player on their own.
If the marines wish for something to get their MARINES to defend resource nodes more quickly, ie some kind of fast travel, that's slightly more on the table for discussion. But I am absolutely against an impenetrable automated defense, or anything that in ANY way discourages new players from attacking vital components of the enemy army.
<!--quoteo(post=2027795:date=Nov 18 2012, 02:29 PM:name=mushookees)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mushookees @ Nov 18 2012, 02:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2027795"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->electrify was lame in NS1 but it could possibly work in NS2
it would force skulks to destroy the powernode first before attacking the res node (no power, no electrify)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2031482:date=Nov 21 2012, 01:41 PM:name=Katana314)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katana314 @ Nov 21 2012, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the marines wish for something to get their MARINES to defend resource nodes more quickly, ie some kind of fast travel, that's slightly more on the table for discussion. But I am absolutely against an impenetrable automated defense, or anything that in ANY way discourages new players from attacking vital components of the enemy army.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is a lot of wiggle room between an 'impenetrable' defense and the rather expensive and utterly useless sentries that can be taken out by an unupgraded tier 1 skulk. While it may encourage skulk guerilla warfare, I would argue that having to run from node to node to node to defend is part of the reason why it is so hard to exert any meaningful pressure as marines, ultimately leading to passive gameplay on the other side of the coin.
People are still forgetting that an electrified node is *NOT* unkillable. Just take out the power node, boom - dead extractor. Then you can destroy the (unelectrified) extractor. No gorge needed, no suicide rushes. Attack power node instead of extractor.
If people don't want electrify, then give marines free extractor drops. Fair?
<!--quoteo(post=2027658:date=Nov 18 2012, 03:05 AM:name=Al_Ka_Pwn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Al_Ka_Pwn @ Nov 18 2012, 03:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2027658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why did this feature go away?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because the disparity between Alien and Marine mobility is vastly reduced in NS2, coupled with what feels like *significantly* smaller map sizes. A Skulk could dedicate himself to RT harassment in NS1 and be the single deciding factor in an Alien victory because of it and Marines had little to no recourse against it because they simply didn't have mobility anywhere near the level of the Skulk, even with a Jetpack. That said, the problem with Electrify's value then became that a Gorge would counter your 30 resource investment (RT+Electrify, if I remember the resource cost correctly) with 10 resources in going Gorge (was it 20? I forget) and dropping a 10 resource OC near your RT and it was very, very likely that that OC (maybe coupled with Spit or Bile Bomb) would destroy the RT long before your Marines could save it. Either way, it ended up being that Electrify was largely useless except in cementing a Marine victory.
Some people have made noise that forcing the Aliens to destroy the node is a valid option. It isn't. The power nodes cost nothing for the Comm if they're lost and cost nothing to place. By the time the Skulk destroys the node, <i>if</i> he destroys the node, a Marine with his significantly greater movement ability (compared to NS1) will reach the Skulk before any actual resource damage is done. The Marine may have to spend 20 seconds rebuilding the node but the Skulk will have failed to really cost the Marines anything significant. Comparatively, a Marine destroying a Cyst costs the Aliens 1 TRes and can significantly cripple forward pushes by disrupting the Cyst chain a distance back from where the push is occurring. Nodes are all individual environments, meaning that disrupting power in one area of the map means nothing if the Marines can simply phase in to one room away. In addition to that, because Cyst health is so ###### low, an individual Marine with a 5 PRes Welder is able to cost your Alien Commander upwards of 10-20 TRes in less than a minute.
<!--quoteo(post=2031547:date=Nov 21 2012, 06:36 PM:name=Syriquez)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Syriquez @ Nov 21 2012, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031547"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some people have made noise that forcing the Aliens to destroy the node is a valid option. It isn't. The power nodes cost nothing for the Comm if they're lost and cost nothing to place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->And the skulk costs nothing and are easy to replace. Sounds like a fair tradeoff to me.
Please don't start with "Marines (and their) significantly greater movement ability" since it means nothing if you *still* can't defend the nodes. There are only a select few nodes on each map that are within range of a tech point that a marine can reach (with their "significantly greater movement ability") - *IF* and this is a big if, *IF* they are at the nearest tech point when the alarm sounds. If they are anywhere else the node is lost.
Killing extractors is actually becoming boring now since it's so easy and monotonous. I run in, kill the extractor, hide up in the ceiling or vent and wait for marine to arrive after it's been destroyed, then I proceed to kill him. Usually he will have dropped a welder too. So add up the res lost to hold one extractor - which in the end was lost anyway. I do this over and over and over.
When I'm playing as alien it's so easy it actually feels unfair to the other team. I can almost certainly assure a win just by going from node to node, and then one of two things happens... Either marines lose so much res to lost extractors that they are gimped for upgrades, or they spend so much time guarding a few extractors that aliens take the rest of the map. No matter what it leads to a marine loss.
It's getting to the point where I'm seeing marine comms setting up sentries at extractors now. Of course this is pointless since the limited sentry range from the battery almost always leave a 'dead spot'.
Electrified extractors would make this game a <b>*challenge*</b> to play as alien, something that it isn't right now.
<!--quoteo(post=2031702:date=Nov 21 2012, 08:10 PM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Nov 21 2012, 08:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031702"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And the skulk costs nothing and are easy to replace. Sounds like a fair tradeoff to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not an argument and you know it. Don't kid yourself.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please don't start with "Marines (and their) significantly greater movement ability" since it means nothing if you *still* can't defend the nodes. There are only a select few nodes on each map that are within range of a tech point that a marine can reach (with their "significantly greater movement ability") - *IF* and this is a big if, *IF* they are at the nearest tech point when the alarm sounds. If they are anywhere else the node is lost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Significantly greater as compared to NS1. Marines take virtually no time in NS2 to cross the entire map in comparison to NS1. And there's rarely more than one node between tech points. It should be noted that this is not always the case. A map like Veil has several nodes between tech points but this is something you need to factor in to your Marine team's strategy.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Killing extractors is actually becoming boring now since it's so easy and monotonous. I run in, kill the extractor, hide up in the ceiling or vent and wait for marine to arrive after it's been destroyed, then I proceed to kill him. Usually he will have dropped a welder too. So add up the res lost to hold one extractor - which in the end was lost anyway. I do this over and over and over.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the solution to awful Marines is to make them more powerful because they're too incompetent to take you down? Right, that's a good idea.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When I'm playing as alien it's so easy it actually feels unfair to the other team. I can almost certainly assure a win just by going from node to node, and then one of two things happens... Either marines lose so much res to lost extractors that they are gimped for upgrades, or they spend so much time guarding a few extractors that aliens take the rest of the map. No matter what it leads to a marine loss.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because the Marines are apparently failing miserably at map control, which is something they're supposed to be good at. If they're too awful to maintain it, that's an issue with the players, not the game. Using Docking as an example, I personally camp between Terminal and East Wing and keep both areas free of RT sniping. Additionally, I'm close enough to Phase to, say, Cafeteria or Departures as needed.
"But then you have a Marine that's not helping on pushes!" Boo-hoo? We called it a base monkey back in NS1. Also, what the hell do you think a Gorge does on the Alien side?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's getting to the point where I'm seeing marine comms setting up sentries at extractors now. Of course this is pointless since the limited sentry range from the battery almost always leave a 'dead spot'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your Marine Commanders are awful at placing Sentries. They have a 160° view. It doesn't take complicated angles calculations to figure out how to maximize that.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Electrified extractors would make this game a <b>*challenge*</b> to play as alien, something that it isn't right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, they'd add an unnecessary level of camping potential to the Marines, something for which they sorely do <i>not</i> need. Damn, it'll be a week and there will be people whining that Whips reflecting grenades is OP, despite it being literally just a counter to turtling their last base. (If there isn't already...)
---
I love that the entirety of my responses basically fall to "Marines needs to learn how to play" which has been the thing I've repeated constantly. Want to know why you're getting killed by the Onos? Because your Commander went Armor 3/Weapons 1/Exos. And that your team can't aim or is sitting on 100/100/90/90/90/100/100 PRes, waiting to buy a single Minigun Exo. Want to know why camo is destroying you? Because your Comm went Weapons 3/Armor 0 and never scanned during pushes. And that you're incredibly slow to react.
Please also remember that when defending individual resource towers is too difficult, the marines can try to use their existing tech points to force some kind of map control, and actually prevent skulks from even reaching their favorite vents.
Keep in mind it's not quite as simple as "You enter a vent and fast-travel to the other side of the map"; obviously so. Skulks have increased mobility, but often times there are just undefended places I'd love to gnaw on, but can't reach because there are enough garrisons (sometimes only 3) spread across the map at all the strategic points, and not nearly enough vents and access points.
I'd also highlight that if a proximity mine kills a skulk, it feels like that player killed the skulk. If a sentry kills a skulk, that's actually kind of impressive given their low power, so it feels like the commander killed the skulk via smart placement. If electricity kills a skulk, or even deals most of the damage needed to kill it, that doesn't feel like any application of skill or good strategy; it's like Martyrdom in COD4, just a coincidential kill based on a very simple investment. I don't think it would even be very rewarding to the marine team.
<!--quoteo(post=2031722:date=Nov 21 2012, 09:31 PM:name=Syriquez)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Syriquez @ Nov 21 2012, 09:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031722"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marines take virtually no time in NS2 to cross the entire map in comparison to NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->So? They could be flying around the map at light speed, but if they can't reach the node before it is killed then their relative speed means nothing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So the solution to awful Marines is to make them more powerful because they're too incompetent to take you down? Right, that's a good idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The problem isn't awful marines, and the solution isn't to make marines more powerful. Stop throwing up strawmen to knock down. Electrified nodes would COST res, just like in NS1. That cost increases the value of an extractor. So now if you kill the power node and the extractor, you will have deprived marines of MORE res. It's a fair tradeoff. Increased time to kill extractor but increased cost for extractor. (a 5 res cost to electrify would be fair)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because the Marines are apparently failing miserably at map control, which is something they're supposed to be good at.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Map control is the aliens game, not the marine's game. That's why aliens are faster. If marines are controlling the entire map then the alien team has failed spectacularly.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"But then you have a Marine that's not helping on pushes!" Boo-hoo? We called it a base monkey back in NS1. Also, what the hell do you think a Gorge does on the Alien side?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Gorge is totally different, and gorge isn't protecting harvesters. Apples and oranges.
So your solution is that marines should sit around in base to wait for extractors to get hit? Yeah, like aliens won't benefit from that.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->(electrified extractors would) add an unnecessary level of camping potential to the Marines, something for which they sorely do <i>not</i> need.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->How do you figure that? It's the opposite. Camping is what is happening now since marines have to hang around their extractors to keep them alive, which means they can't push, which means they don't get map control, which means they lose.
Also, please don't feed me the bull that "marines need to learn how to play", since I'm on marine teams with people who have been around since the NS1 beta and they know 'how to play'. There simply isn't enough time to reach the nodes before they are dead.
It's not a matter of if electrification will come, it's a matter of when. I was around when we put electrification in NS1, and I can see them doing the same thing here.
<!--quoteo(post=2031702:date=Nov 21 2012, 06:10 PM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Nov 21 2012, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031702"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And the skulk costs nothing and are easy to replace. Sounds like a fair tradeoff to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So earlier when you were complaining that a marine would have to peel off from his offensive to save a node, it's unfair, but if a skulk is peeling himself off from his teams offensive, that investment of a player should be worth nothing?
<!--quoteo(post=2031702:date=Nov 21 2012, 06:10 PM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Nov 21 2012, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031702"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please don't start with "Marines (and their) significantly greater movement ability" since it means nothing if you *still* can't defend the nodes. There are only a select few nodes on each map that are within range of a tech point that a marine can reach (with their "significantly greater movement ability") - *IF* and this is a big if, *IF* they are at the nearest tech point when the alarm sounds. If they are anywhere else the node is lost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe get a phase gate? If you can phase from one side of the map to the other, every single res node that is close to either phase gate is easily defensible. You keep saying things like "Oh, putting a phase in every room is unreasonable!" Yeah, it is. That's why you put one at every tech point you own, and since all the maps are set up for res nodes to be easily accessible from tech points, you can defend your extractors easily. You don't need a phase in overlook if you have one in sub.
<!--quoteo(post=2031702:date=Nov 21 2012, 06:10 PM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Nov 21 2012, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031702"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Killing extractors is actually becoming boring now since it's so easy and monotonous. I run in, kill the extractor, hide up in the ceiling or vent and wait for marine to arrive after it's been destroyed, then I proceed to kill him. Usually he will have dropped a welder too. So add up the res lost to hold one extractor - which in the end was lost anyway. I do this over and over and over.
When I'm playing as alien it's so easy it actually feels unfair to the other team. I can almost certainly assure a win just by going from node to node, and then one of two things happens... Either marines lose so much res to lost extractors that they are gimped for upgrades, or they spend so much time guarding a few extractors that aliens take the rest of the map. No matter what it leads to a marine loss.
It's getting to the point where I'm seeing marine comms setting up sentries at extractors now. Of course this is pointless since the limited sentry range from the battery almost always leave a 'dead spot'.
Electrified extractors would make this game a <b>*challenge*</b> to play as alien, something that it isn't right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try playing on better servers. You can filter out the ones that are meant for rookies in the server browser with just one click. I'd recommend the KKG servers; generally, the teams are good, the players are competent, and since comms tell their marines to save extractors under pressure, it almost always happens!
<!--quoteo(post=2032717:date=Nov 22 2012, 09:57 PM:name=bERt0r)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bERt0r @ Nov 22 2012, 09:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032717"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->minos, do you realise that you are suggesting this to a player who has been a member of the ns community for 10 years?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2032070:date=Nov 22 2012, 07:34 AM:name=minos_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (minos_ @ Nov 22 2012, 07:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032070"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So earlier when you were complaining that a marine would have to peel off from his offensive to save a node, it's unfair, but if a skulk is peeling himself off from his teams offensive, that investment of a player should be worth nothing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->A skulk killing a node *is* an offensive. It's a very effective one.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe get a phase gate? If you can phase from one side of the map to the other, every single res node that is close to either phase gate is easily defensible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Actually, they're not. I could go through every map and point out which half of the nodes are indefensible. However, even with phase gates, *still* marines have to be at the phase gate in order to go through it, and with each additional phase gate it takes 2 seconds to phase back out. If you are trying to get to the 4th phase gate on a chain, that's 8 seconds *plus* the time to sprint to the node. By the time you do, it's gone.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Try playing on better servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I think you're missing the point. Aside from the fact that I make a point to play on ALL the various servers (to get a better idea of where the game is at) the reality is that it's not the players that are the problem. It's the time and distance involved. God forbid should two skulks decide to team up on a node, you're not gonna stop that unless you're sitting on top of it.
There are a couple big problems with res nodes as they stand.
This whole exercise of marines running around from node to node to try and protect them is turning into a boring game of whack-a-mole. Honestly, it gets REAL boring running back and forth, since even if the marine does happen to get there in time, the skulk just sits in a vent and waits for him to leave. We've been down this road before. I'm already seeing commanders start to sentry farm up res nodes.
On the alien side killing extractors is also BORING. Maybe you get a kick out of sitting in one spot holding down your mouse button, but I don't. I do it because I have to, but not because it's fun.
Which brings us to the bottom line here, is this game mechanic 'fun'? No, it isn't.
Electrified extractors make it so that there is an 'expense' for aliens and marines to play the whack-a-mole meta-game. For marines it costs more res, for aliens it costs more time. Back in NS1 what made the game fun is that with electrified nodes in the beginning of the game, skulks were attacking attacking the marines, instead of the extractors. *THAT* is fun. That's player-versus-player combat, which is what people play this game for.
People want to have to battle. Right now the only battles are when marines get rolled at game end. The rest of the time is spent trying to rebuild extractors. Wonder why extractors are dying faster now than before? Because people are sick and tired of spending the entire game running from one node to another only to either not get there in time, or get there in time and the skulk runs away to hide, or they get there in time and get rolled since they don't have armor upgrades that early in the game and are vulnerable alone. After a while it stops being fun, and so people stop doing it.
Maybe it's the servers I play on but I haven't had such a huge problem with skulks taking nodes, they do it and it's annoying but most of the time it works out well because they are busy nomming and I can sneak around and shoot them before they can even react. This is made way easier if they are on the power node, I can't imagine if that was required before they could kill the node, you can own a couple skulks on a power node if not more before they can react.
And with the whole playing whack a mole thing, it's not like marines don't do this sort of them, and actually they can be even more annoying because they can get into a hive and start working on upgrades which aren't the toughest. If marines get electrify, maybe we can get acid that shoots out of eggs or our upgrades when they are attacked :P
If you have trouble killing harvesters, try killing the cysts first, often they will finish off themselves if you can't. I do get that res nodes are different for each side, it being so easy for the alien comm to stick the harvester back compared to the marine comm. If skulks are really such a problem for marines then if anything i'd say add a bit of life to the res nodes.
And as far as phasegates go, if the marines are so far away from a certain res node then I would assume you have phasegates, usually in my games someone just tells the next person that resses to run over to the node, which is usually either near or through a phasegate and then not much further.
<!--quoteo(post=2032790:date=Nov 23 2012, 02:25 AM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Nov 23 2012, 02:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032790"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On the alien side killing extractors is also BORING. Maybe you get a kick out of sitting in one spot holding down your mouse button, but I don't. I do it because I have to, but not because it's fun.
Which brings us to the bottom line here, is this game mechanic 'fun'? No, it isn't.
Electrified extractors make it so that there is an 'expense' for aliens and marines to play the whack-a-mole meta-game. For marines it costs more res, for aliens it costs more time. Back in NS1 what made the game fun is that with electrified nodes in the beginning of the game, skulks were attacking attacking the marines, instead of the extractors. *THAT* is fun. That's player-versus-player combat, which is what people play this game for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's boring to sit as a skulk killing a res node, so you think it would be better to have the option to electrify it so the skulk has to chew the power first then chew the res node. That sounds like loads more fun.
<!--quoteo(post=2032969:date=Nov 23 2012, 02:08 PM:name=LilbitHeartless)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LilbitHeartless @ Nov 23 2012, 02:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032969"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's boring to sit as a skulk killing a res node, so you think it would be better to have the option to electrify it so the skulk has to chew the power first then chew the res node. That sounds like loads more fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's the thing though, I want to make it so that early game extractor kills are *hard* so that instead of the skulks going to kill the extractors, <b>they instead go after the marines that are trying to build them</b>. Once you get gorges and lerks they can bile them from a distance and the point becomes moot. Bottom line?
Player versus player. <b> That's where the fun is in this game. </b>Yeah building/destroying structures has its place, but it should be as an ancillary measure, not the primary objective. Otherwise why have combat at all?
Tell me, what is more fun to you? Trying to kill an enemy opponent, or building/destroying structures? We both know the answer. The thrill is in the hunt and the attack.
By electrifying extractors we remove the incentive for skulks to focus on killing the extractors directly, and instead move more towards killing the <b>MARINES </b>that want to <i><b>BUILD </b></i>the extractor. See what I'm getting at? I'm just shifting the resource game so that there is more emphasis on killing the players. The end result is the same. If you can't live long enough to build the extractor, then you're in big trouble. I'd rather see the comm worry more about the 'building meta-game' and the marines worry more about claiming territory and fighting the aliens to take/hold it.
I'd be willing to see Electrify attempted, at least, by UWE. At the end of the day, all this back and forth comes down to a fundamental disagreement in heuristic models, possibly even a difference in what both sides want to get out of the game. The people who need to see if they like electrify in action are UWE; after all, it's their game.
The price should start around or above 10 res though. We don't need it to instantly dominate the game when it's implemented.
<!--quoteo(post=2027668:date=Nov 18 2012, 03:10 AM:name=Al_Ka_Pwn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Al_Ka_Pwn @ Nov 18 2012, 03:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2027668"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Devour went away because of the complications that would arise from swallowing an exo suit and also because the "digesting" mechanic was not fun for the player on the receiving end and only served to make them frustrated and slow down game play. that's why it was gone, care to give an actual explanation and not a useless waste of type?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont think stomp is fun, get it out GET IT OUT!!!!
Comments
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Taking out extractors is the one thing skulks are good for late game and should not be removed. As is if you can't get a marine to a extractors before one skulk takes it down it means your marines are not very good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It's not taking out anything. Skulks would still be able to 'harass' by taking out the power instead of the extractor. The end result is the same, res stops flowing. The difference is that there is a second step if you want to take out the extractor.
Marines can't be expected to have phase gates at every extractor. Furthermore, most marines aren't sitting around in base waiting for a skulk to start chewing on a node. The reason electrification was brought it was because it was too easy for a ZERO RES alien to take out a extractor. It takes less than 30 seconds for a skulk to kill an extractor, and unless a marine is sitting at base, they won't be in position to stop it in most cases.
It only takes ~15 seconds to kill a power node. After 15 seconds, you are still free to kill the extractor. Even if you don't, the end result is the same. No res flow from the node. If you are shrewd you don't kill the extractor right away, but instead wait for the marine to come and repair it. Then you kill him AND the extractor.
We had the same debate when NS was a mod, and they ended up adding it since it is just too quick and easy to kill extractors with zero res lifeforms. What makes it better in NS2 is that you can disable the res node, so unlike in NS1 skulks can still kill the extractor.
It's an extremely useless upgrade, because it doesn't actually protect your res inflow, it just possibly prevents you from losing 10 res... so 10 res would be too expensive, but I feel like 5 res is silly.
In the case of baserushes, you hardly have skulks chewing down powernodes during an assault because a sitting skulk on a power node is dead meat. You alwas have the oni kill the powernode and electrify doesnt do much against an onos.
In the case of baserushes, you hardly have skulks chewing down powernodes during an assault because a sitting skulk on a power node is dead meat. You alwas have the oni kill the powernode and electrify doesnt do much against an onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So what you're saying is, Aliens should need teamwork to defend and attack but Marines should be able to do whatever they want. Riiiiight.
On the other hand, marines easily have all the tools to set up a strong defense when they mean to. I know because I've DONE it as Marine commander. It also provides some incentive to only take hold of territory that you can maintain; setting up more of a "border push".
I would always be for the encouragement of empowering players over buildings. I really like how incredibly useless sentries are -EXCEPT- when they're covering marines. I like how most alien defenses don't work well on their own. I like how the game's more powerful weaponry requires a -player- to devote skill and resources towards it, and the game's few NPCs are really only there to support players, and could never stand up to another player on their own.
If the marines wish for something to get their MARINES to defend resource nodes more quickly, ie some kind of fast travel, that's slightly more on the table for discussion. But I am absolutely against an impenetrable automated defense, or anything that in ANY way discourages new players from attacking vital components of the enemy army.
it would force skulks to destroy the powernode first before attacking the res node (no power, no electrify)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Brilliant!
There is a lot of wiggle room between an 'impenetrable' defense and the rather expensive and utterly useless sentries that can be taken out by an unupgraded tier 1 skulk. While it may encourage skulk guerilla warfare, I would argue that having to run from node to node to node to defend is part of the reason why it is so hard to exert any meaningful pressure as marines, ultimately leading to passive gameplay on the other side of the coin.
If people don't want electrify, then give marines free extractor drops. Fair?
Because the disparity between Alien and Marine mobility is vastly reduced in NS2, coupled with what feels like *significantly* smaller map sizes. A Skulk could dedicate himself to RT harassment in NS1 and be the single deciding factor in an Alien victory because of it and Marines had little to no recourse against it because they simply didn't have mobility anywhere near the level of the Skulk, even with a Jetpack. That said, the problem with Electrify's value then became that a Gorge would counter your 30 resource investment (RT+Electrify, if I remember the resource cost correctly) with 10 resources in going Gorge (was it 20? I forget) and dropping a 10 resource OC near your RT and it was very, very likely that that OC (maybe coupled with Spit or Bile Bomb) would destroy the RT long before your Marines could save it. Either way, it ended up being that Electrify was largely useless except in cementing a Marine victory.
Some people have made noise that forcing the Aliens to destroy the node is a valid option. It isn't. The power nodes cost nothing for the Comm if they're lost and cost nothing to place. By the time the Skulk destroys the node, <i>if</i> he destroys the node, a Marine with his significantly greater movement ability (compared to NS1) will reach the Skulk before any actual resource damage is done. The Marine may have to spend 20 seconds rebuilding the node but the Skulk will have failed to really cost the Marines anything significant. Comparatively, a Marine destroying a Cyst costs the Aliens 1 TRes and can significantly cripple forward pushes by disrupting the Cyst chain a distance back from where the push is occurring. Nodes are all individual environments, meaning that disrupting power in one area of the map means nothing if the Marines can simply phase in to one room away. In addition to that, because Cyst health is so ###### low, an individual Marine with a 5 PRes Welder is able to cost your Alien Commander upwards of 10-20 TRes in less than a minute.
Please don't start with "Marines (and their) significantly greater movement ability" since it means nothing if you *still* can't defend the nodes. There are only a select few nodes on each map that are within range of a tech point that a marine can reach (with their "significantly greater movement ability") - *IF* and this is a big if, *IF* they are at the nearest tech point when the alarm sounds. If they are anywhere else the node is lost.
Killing extractors is actually becoming boring now since it's so easy and monotonous. I run in, kill the extractor, hide up in the ceiling or vent and wait for marine to arrive after it's been destroyed, then I proceed to kill him. Usually he will have dropped a welder too. So add up the res lost to hold one extractor - which in the end was lost anyway. I do this over and over and over.
When I'm playing as alien it's so easy it actually feels unfair to the other team. I can almost certainly assure a win just by going from node to node, and then one of two things happens... Either marines lose so much res to lost extractors that they are gimped for upgrades, or they spend so much time guarding a few extractors that aliens take the rest of the map. No matter what it leads to a marine loss.
It's getting to the point where I'm seeing marine comms setting up sentries at extractors now. Of course this is pointless since the limited sentry range from the battery almost always leave a 'dead spot'.
Electrified extractors would make this game a <b>*challenge*</b> to play as alien, something that it isn't right now.
That's not an argument and you know it. Don't kid yourself.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please don't start with "Marines (and their) significantly greater movement ability" since it means nothing if you *still* can't defend the nodes. There are only a select few nodes on each map that are within range of a tech point that a marine can reach (with their "significantly greater movement ability") - *IF* and this is a big if, *IF* they are at the nearest tech point when the alarm sounds. If they are anywhere else the node is lost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Significantly greater as compared to NS1. Marines take virtually no time in NS2 to cross the entire map in comparison to NS1. And there's rarely more than one node between tech points. It should be noted that this is not always the case. A map like Veil has several nodes between tech points but this is something you need to factor in to your Marine team's strategy.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Killing extractors is actually becoming boring now since it's so easy and monotonous. I run in, kill the extractor, hide up in the ceiling or vent and wait for marine to arrive after it's been destroyed, then I proceed to kill him. Usually he will have dropped a welder too. So add up the res lost to hold one extractor - which in the end was lost anyway. I do this over and over and over.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the solution to awful Marines is to make them more powerful because they're too incompetent to take you down? Right, that's a good idea.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When I'm playing as alien it's so easy it actually feels unfair to the other team. I can almost certainly assure a win just by going from node to node, and then one of two things happens... Either marines lose so much res to lost extractors that they are gimped for upgrades, or they spend so much time guarding a few extractors that aliens take the rest of the map. No matter what it leads to a marine loss.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because the Marines are apparently failing miserably at map control, which is something they're supposed to be good at. If they're too awful to maintain it, that's an issue with the players, not the game. Using Docking as an example, I personally camp between Terminal and East Wing and keep both areas free of RT sniping. Additionally, I'm close enough to Phase to, say, Cafeteria or Departures as needed.
"But then you have a Marine that's not helping on pushes!" Boo-hoo? We called it a base monkey back in NS1. Also, what the hell do you think a Gorge does on the Alien side?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's getting to the point where I'm seeing marine comms setting up sentries at extractors now. Of course this is pointless since the limited sentry range from the battery almost always leave a 'dead spot'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your Marine Commanders are awful at placing Sentries. They have a 160° view. It doesn't take complicated angles calculations to figure out how to maximize that.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Electrified extractors would make this game a <b>*challenge*</b> to play as alien, something that it isn't right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, they'd add an unnecessary level of camping potential to the Marines, something for which they sorely do <i>not</i> need. Damn, it'll be a week and there will be people whining that Whips reflecting grenades is OP, despite it being literally just a counter to turtling their last base. (If there isn't already...)
---
I love that the entirety of my responses basically fall to "Marines needs to learn how to play" which has been the thing I've repeated constantly. Want to know why you're getting killed by the Onos? Because your Commander went Armor 3/Weapons 1/Exos. And that your team can't aim or is sitting on 100/100/90/90/90/100/100 PRes, waiting to buy a single Minigun Exo. Want to know why camo is destroying you? Because your Comm went Weapons 3/Armor 0 and never scanned during pushes. And that you're incredibly slow to react.
Keep in mind it's not quite as simple as "You enter a vent and fast-travel to the other side of the map"; obviously so. Skulks have increased mobility, but often times there are just undefended places I'd love to gnaw on, but can't reach because there are enough garrisons (sometimes only 3) spread across the map at all the strategic points, and not nearly enough vents and access points.
I'd also highlight that if a proximity mine kills a skulk, it feels like that player killed the skulk. If a sentry kills a skulk, that's actually kind of impressive given their low power, so it feels like the commander killed the skulk via smart placement. If electricity kills a skulk, or even deals most of the damage needed to kill it, that doesn't feel like any application of skill or good strategy; it's like Martyrdom in COD4, just a coincidential kill based on a very simple investment. I don't think it would even be very rewarding to the marine team.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So the solution to awful Marines is to make them more powerful because they're too incompetent to take you down? Right, that's a good idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The problem isn't awful marines, and the solution isn't to make marines more powerful. Stop throwing up strawmen to knock down. Electrified nodes would COST res, just like in NS1. That cost increases the value of an extractor. So now if you kill the power node and the extractor, you will have deprived marines of MORE res. It's a fair tradeoff. Increased time to kill extractor but increased cost for extractor. (a 5 res cost to electrify would be fair)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because the Marines are apparently failing miserably at map control, which is something they're supposed to be good at.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Map control is the aliens game, not the marine's game. That's why aliens are faster. If marines are controlling the entire map then the alien team has failed spectacularly.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"But then you have a Marine that's not helping on pushes!" Boo-hoo? We called it a base monkey back in NS1. Also, what the hell do you think a Gorge does on the Alien side?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Gorge is totally different, and gorge isn't protecting harvesters. Apples and oranges.
So your solution is that marines should sit around in base to wait for extractors to get hit? Yeah, like aliens won't benefit from that.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->(electrified extractors would) add an unnecessary level of camping potential to the Marines, something for which they sorely do <i>not</i> need.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->How do you figure that? It's the opposite. Camping is what is happening now since marines have to hang around their extractors to keep them alive, which means they can't push, which means they don't get map control, which means they lose.
Also, please don't feed me the bull that "marines need to learn how to play", since I'm on marine teams with people who have been around since the NS1 beta and they know 'how to play'. There simply isn't enough time to reach the nodes before they are dead.
It's not a matter of if electrification will come, it's a matter of when. I was around when we put electrification in NS1, and I can see them doing the same thing here.
So earlier when you were complaining that a marine would have to peel off from his offensive to save a node, it's unfair, but if a skulk is peeling himself off from his teams offensive, that investment of a player should be worth nothing?
<!--quoteo(post=2031702:date=Nov 21 2012, 06:10 PM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Nov 21 2012, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031702"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please don't start with "Marines (and their) significantly greater movement ability" since it means nothing if you *still* can't defend the nodes. There are only a select few nodes on each map that are within range of a tech point that a marine can reach (with their "significantly greater movement ability") - *IF* and this is a big if, *IF* they are at the nearest tech point when the alarm sounds. If they are anywhere else the node is lost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe get a phase gate? If you can phase from one side of the map to the other, every single res node that is close to either phase gate is easily defensible. You keep saying things like "Oh, putting a phase in every room is unreasonable!" Yeah, it is. That's why you put one at every tech point you own, and since all the maps are set up for res nodes to be easily accessible from tech points, you can defend your extractors easily. You don't need a phase in overlook if you have one in sub.
<!--quoteo(post=2031702:date=Nov 21 2012, 06:10 PM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Nov 21 2012, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031702"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Killing extractors is actually becoming boring now since it's so easy and monotonous. I run in, kill the extractor, hide up in the ceiling or vent and wait for marine to arrive after it's been destroyed, then I proceed to kill him. Usually he will have dropped a welder too. So add up the res lost to hold one extractor - which in the end was lost anyway. I do this over and over and over.
When I'm playing as alien it's so easy it actually feels unfair to the other team. I can almost certainly assure a win just by going from node to node, and then one of two things happens... Either marines lose so much res to lost extractors that they are gimped for upgrades, or they spend so much time guarding a few extractors that aliens take the rest of the map. No matter what it leads to a marine loss.
It's getting to the point where I'm seeing marine comms setting up sentries at extractors now. Of course this is pointless since the limited sentry range from the battery almost always leave a 'dead spot'.
Electrified extractors would make this game a <b>*challenge*</b> to play as alien, something that it isn't right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try playing on better servers. You can filter out the ones that are meant for rookies in the server browser with just one click. I'd recommend the KKG servers; generally, the teams are good, the players are competent, and since comms tell their marines to save extractors under pressure, it almost always happens!
And is a playtester.
And one of the few sane people on this forum.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe get a phase gate? If you can phase from one side of the map to the other, every single res node that is close to either phase gate is easily defensible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Actually, they're not. I could go through every map and point out which half of the nodes are indefensible. However, even with phase gates, *still* marines have to be at the phase gate in order to go through it, and with each additional phase gate it takes 2 seconds to phase back out. If you are trying to get to the 4th phase gate on a chain, that's 8 seconds *plus* the time to sprint to the node. By the time you do, it's gone.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Try playing on better servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I think you're missing the point. Aside from the fact that I make a point to play on ALL the various servers (to get a better idea of where the game is at) the reality is that it's not the players that are the problem. It's the time and distance involved. God forbid should two skulks decide to team up on a node, you're not gonna stop that unless you're sitting on top of it.
There are a couple big problems with res nodes as they stand.
This whole exercise of marines running around from node to node to try and protect them is turning into a boring game of whack-a-mole. Honestly, it gets REAL boring running back and forth, since even if the marine does happen to get there in time, the skulk just sits in a vent and waits for him to leave. We've been down this road before. I'm already seeing commanders start to sentry farm up res nodes.
On the alien side killing extractors is also BORING. Maybe you get a kick out of sitting in one spot holding down your mouse button, but I don't. I do it because I have to, but not because it's fun.
Which brings us to the bottom line here, is this game mechanic 'fun'? No, it isn't.
Electrified extractors make it so that there is an 'expense' for aliens and marines to play the whack-a-mole meta-game. For marines it costs more res, for aliens it costs more time. Back in NS1 what made the game fun is that with electrified nodes in the beginning of the game, skulks were attacking attacking the marines, instead of the extractors. *THAT* is fun. That's player-versus-player combat, which is what people play this game for.
People want to have to battle. Right now the only battles are when marines get rolled at game end. The rest of the time is spent trying to rebuild extractors. Wonder why extractors are dying faster now than before? Because people are sick and tired of spending the entire game running from one node to another only to either not get there in time, or get there in time and the skulk runs away to hide, or they get there in time and get rolled since they don't have armor upgrades that early in the game and are vulnerable alone. After a while it stops being fun, and so people stop doing it.
That's what this is all about, 'fun'.
And with the whole playing whack a mole thing, it's not like marines don't do this sort of them, and actually they can be even more annoying because they can get into a hive and start working on upgrades which aren't the toughest. If marines get electrify, maybe we can get acid that shoots out of eggs or our upgrades when they are attacked :P
If you have trouble killing harvesters, try killing the cysts first, often they will finish off themselves if you can't. I do get that res nodes are different for each side, it being so easy for the alien comm to stick the harvester back compared to the marine comm. If skulks are really such a problem for marines then if anything i'd say add a bit of life to the res nodes.
And as far as phasegates go, if the marines are so far away from a certain res node then I would assume you have phasegates, usually in my games someone just tells the next person that resses to run over to the node, which is usually either near or through a phasegate and then not much further.
<!--quoteo(post=2032790:date=Nov 23 2012, 02:25 AM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Nov 23 2012, 02:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032790"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On the alien side killing extractors is also BORING. Maybe you get a kick out of sitting in one spot holding down your mouse button, but I don't. I do it because I have to, but not because it's fun.
Which brings us to the bottom line here, is this game mechanic 'fun'? No, it isn't.
Electrified extractors make it so that there is an 'expense' for aliens and marines to play the whack-a-mole meta-game. For marines it costs more res, for aliens it costs more time. Back in NS1 what made the game fun is that with electrified nodes in the beginning of the game, skulks were attacking attacking the marines, instead of the extractors. *THAT* is fun. That's player-versus-player combat, which is what people play this game for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's boring to sit as a skulk killing a res node, so you think it would be better to have the option to electrify it so the skulk has to chew the power first then chew the res node. That sounds like loads more fun.
Player versus player. <b> That's where the fun is in this game. </b>Yeah building/destroying structures has its place, but it should be as an ancillary measure, not the primary objective. Otherwise why have combat at all?
Tell me, what is more fun to you? Trying to kill an enemy opponent, or building/destroying structures? We both know the answer. The thrill is in the hunt and the attack.
By electrifying extractors we remove the incentive for skulks to focus on killing the extractors directly, and instead move more towards killing the <b>MARINES </b>that want to <i><b>BUILD </b></i>the extractor. See what I'm getting at? I'm just shifting the resource game so that there is more emphasis on killing the players. The end result is the same. If you can't live long enough to build the extractor, then you're in big trouble. I'd rather see the comm worry more about the 'building meta-game' and the marines worry more about claiming territory and fighting the aliens to take/hold it.
The price should start around or above 10 res though. We don't need it to instantly dominate the game when it's implemented.
I dont think stomp is fun, get it out GET IT OUT!!!!