UWE: Fix your Game!
StaticVoiD
Join Date: 2012-10-30 Member: 164631Members
Join Date: 2012-10-30 Member: 164631Members
Read CAREFULLY or do not comment:
I already started a topic, right after release, where I stated that this game needs (<u>only visual!</u>) Unlocks, Achievements and Stats.
The Community at these forums said, that this would be something which only "CoD Noobs" needed, "Real Gamer" would just find the fun in the game itself and blah blah.
Fact is that the user numbers are plummeting.
Nobody in my Steam FL isn't playin it anymore either and I played one single game in the last week.
Why?
Because there is NOTHING which keeps you playing.
Achievements and Unlocks are usually a good way to keep players but ONLY if the gameplay itself is funny.
How does the game work out for me?
I join a server and I am either in the team which has already won or already lost.
Because regarding the fact that the RTS elements have the major impact on the game, rounds mostly decide in the first 10 min, if not earlier.
If I play f.e. a round of StarCraft and screw up within the first 5 minutes, i will be crushed.
NS2 works identically.
If your Com is bad, fails to expand and to secure the ress at the start of the game, you will just struggle for about 20 min until the enemy redeems you.
This problem is even more pressing because of the huge differences of the 2 races:
While Aliens have the possibility to get some ground back by dropping one or two Onos eggs, Marines are just plain ###### if they cannot hold most of their bases throughout an entire game.
While this mechanic might be intended, it just doesn't work out with the FPS-character of the Servers.
If players can just join and leave in the middle of a game as they want, it is merely impossible to keep up tactics or movements.
SOLUTION:
Alternate the server structure and implement MATCHMAKING and RANKING and RATING!
Earn higher ranks by playin more and get some special ranks for commanders.
Earn higher rating by winning, scoring points, etc.
So I would just have to press TAB and would know if my Com knows what he is doin or can be ejected right away.
And if im commanding I would see that the 2 guys who are out to secure an extractor will both die to a single skulk.
Matchmakin would use the RATING to set up balanced teams before a game starts.
If the server is full, the game starts with FULL TEAMS and with equally rated playerson both sides.
So if I have to play with 3 Noobs, the enemy has to do the same. And everyone is ready at the start of a game, where it is most important.
Another point is that, as long as I'm not commanding, I don't feel like having a greater imfluence on how the game ends.
So winning or losing doesn't feel like having achieved something in most cases.
That's where Ranking and Rating helps, but also freakin ACHIEVEMENTS and VISUAL (!!!!) UNLOCKS.
THERE ARE GUYS HERE WHO DON'T WANT 'EM: BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER!
Many people are used to them and love them. And the people who doesn't like 'em would play the game anyway.
So just add them, and more people will start to play it again.
UWE: Your game is so freakin easy to fix, I don't see why you just leave it to rot.
I already started a topic, right after release, where I stated that this game needs (<u>only visual!</u>) Unlocks, Achievements and Stats.
The Community at these forums said, that this would be something which only "CoD Noobs" needed, "Real Gamer" would just find the fun in the game itself and blah blah.
Fact is that the user numbers are plummeting.
Nobody in my Steam FL isn't playin it anymore either and I played one single game in the last week.
Why?
Because there is NOTHING which keeps you playing.
Achievements and Unlocks are usually a good way to keep players but ONLY if the gameplay itself is funny.
How does the game work out for me?
I join a server and I am either in the team which has already won or already lost.
Because regarding the fact that the RTS elements have the major impact on the game, rounds mostly decide in the first 10 min, if not earlier.
If I play f.e. a round of StarCraft and screw up within the first 5 minutes, i will be crushed.
NS2 works identically.
If your Com is bad, fails to expand and to secure the ress at the start of the game, you will just struggle for about 20 min until the enemy redeems you.
This problem is even more pressing because of the huge differences of the 2 races:
While Aliens have the possibility to get some ground back by dropping one or two Onos eggs, Marines are just plain ###### if they cannot hold most of their bases throughout an entire game.
While this mechanic might be intended, it just doesn't work out with the FPS-character of the Servers.
If players can just join and leave in the middle of a game as they want, it is merely impossible to keep up tactics or movements.
SOLUTION:
Alternate the server structure and implement MATCHMAKING and RANKING and RATING!
Earn higher ranks by playin more and get some special ranks for commanders.
Earn higher rating by winning, scoring points, etc.
So I would just have to press TAB and would know if my Com knows what he is doin or can be ejected right away.
And if im commanding I would see that the 2 guys who are out to secure an extractor will both die to a single skulk.
Matchmakin would use the RATING to set up balanced teams before a game starts.
If the server is full, the game starts with FULL TEAMS and with equally rated playerson both sides.
So if I have to play with 3 Noobs, the enemy has to do the same. And everyone is ready at the start of a game, where it is most important.
Another point is that, as long as I'm not commanding, I don't feel like having a greater imfluence on how the game ends.
So winning or losing doesn't feel like having achieved something in most cases.
That's where Ranking and Rating helps, but also freakin ACHIEVEMENTS and VISUAL (!!!!) UNLOCKS.
THERE ARE GUYS HERE WHO DON'T WANT 'EM: BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER!
Many people are used to them and love them. And the people who doesn't like 'em would play the game anyway.
So just add them, and more people will start to play it again.
UWE: Your game is so freakin easy to fix, I don't see why you just leave it to rot.
Comments
The question is however is why does a game need unlocks or ranks to keep a player interested instead of great gameplay?
Most games do this as an illusion of progression. Sort of something for players who have a short attention span for something to do.
Which however is in my opinion is the masses and many games want to appeal the masses, so they can get huge profits.
For stats you can go <a href="http://ns2stats.org/all/index" target="_blank">here </a>
Though not in the game itself, it is still there.
Also number of players usually go down on weekdays but spike back up on weekends.
Matchmaking sounds nice however in my opinion is not needed in NS2.
So you want the game to be the way you want it and not the way it was meant to be?
If you put two teams of equally skilled players together, they aren't going to have a close game most of the time, because so much of it is down to luck. If one guesses the right path at the start, and runs into the enemy base, they might cause lots of damage, or they might run into the enemy team and lose horribly, or they might capture a lot of land. A lot depends on the initial arbitrary choice as to how to spread out.
As to getting people to play the game through unlocks/ranks/desire for bigger numbers next to your name. I can't deny that it works, but it's a very... shallow way to make a game addictive. To the point where I won't play games that rely on it that transparently. Especially because the side effect it has of messing horribly with game balance makes it an active detraction from the quality of the game.
The one that sticks in my mind was that I absolutely loved the crysis 2 demo, best game I'd played in years. I bought the full one and the multiplayer had unlocks. Completely ruined the game because it made it entirely dependent on who had unlocked the better equipment.
I haven't played a game with unlocks that I didn't think that applied to in a very long time. About the only one I didn't hate was the original COD4:MW and that's probably because it was a lot lighter than later iterations of the series. I don't feel it added anything to the game though, it was quite fun to play as is, which was the other reason I liked it. Later editions just made the game less about the quite fun combat and more about unlocking crap, made the game less fun.
I really don't think that if you have an unenjoyable game, sticking an unlock system on it and saying 'hey look you can earn shiny trinkets in our game, YOU MUST PLAY IT' is a good solution. Far better to make the game fun in and of itself. Seems kinda like saying 'this food is boring, lace it with nicotine, that way people will eat more of it'.
Earn higher ranks by playin more and get some special ranks for commanders.
Earn higher rating by winning, scoring points, etc.
So I would just have to press TAB and would know if my Com knows what he is doin or can be ejected right away.
And if im commanding I would see that the 2 guys who are out to secure an extractor will both die to a single skulk.
Matchmakin would use the RATING to set up balanced teams before a game starts.
If the server is full, the game starts with FULL TEAMS and with equally rated playerson both sides.
So if I have to play with 3 Noobs, the enemy has to do the same. And everyone is ready at the start of a game, where it is most important.
*snip*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so.... new players may not try to be commander? well your a d*ck, and if you won't let new players command they'll never learn and will never return because a d*ckface like you ejected them just because they where new! AND SINCE WHEN DOES NEW = ######??? my first game: we started, and at a certain point our commander left, so i jumped in the chair, we were pushed back to nearly our base... YET we won as i used the resources our previous commander stockpiled, and we got a total annihalition.
I think that's the link the OP is looking for. She/He's got everything already figured out for them.....
If you are one of those people who just play to get a achievements and do not consider.
"Enjoyment brought by playing" as a reason to play the game, you should leave.
This is a team game, we don't need people running around trying to get 15 axe kills in a game so they can get a ####ing achievement and in-turn spoiling the fun for other people and thus giving other people less reason to play.
<b>The Community at these forums said, that this would be something which only "CoD Noobs" needed, "Real Gamer" would just find the fun in the game itself and blah blah.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Back for seconds?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Many people are used to them and love them. And the people who doesn't like 'em would play the game anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would prefer it if these people stayed the hell away from NS2 and every other game I like. People already do weird and counter-productive things without adding further incentives to "axe three skulks in one life" or "do 100000 damage to power nodes".
The game being decided before it ends thing is really only a problem with crummy pub teams. If the teams are even things usually go teet for tat into the late game with some nice tech on field which means any push can end the game if coordinated properly and the other team drops the defense ball.
Well iek webs and babblers and other things they said they would provided. And then much more.
Take tf2 for example. That is probably the only game I've played more than ns1/ns2. Why does it remain so popular after almost 10 years? I would say it's because of the steady flow of new weapons (not hats =P). And that remains remarkably balanced.
Once a game remains stale, that's when I lose interest and play something else, personally at least.
A: Because it is mainly addressed to the devs.
There is no point in discussing missing features with fanboys. They just don't need them or they wouldn't be fanboys otherwise.
If you want to play with a small, carefully selected circle of players, good for you.
But Devs usually want to sell their stuff to as many people as possible.
And there are many people out there who are not playing this game (anymore) for the reasons stated above.
It's about them.
I like the idea and most of the mechanics of the game and I would like to see it succeed. So my only slight hope to bring sanity to the devs is by posting that stuff here.
----
Q: Why aren't you workin for UWE if you're such an smartass?
A: As long as my studies at the university aren't finished yet, I doubt they would hire me. Though I think I'm freakin impressive in Terms of Game Design, I need some sort of paper which gives me any sort of commendation. Like at least a Bachelor.
----
Q: Why are you such an a** and don't want to give new players a chance for commanding?
A: That is what Matchmaking is for. As long as you're a noob, you will be playing with other noobs, so you can learn to command there.
So your Command ranking increases along with your game experience increases.
It helps nobody if the whole team of experienced players has to suffer under a commander who has no freakin idea what he is doin.
----
Q: Why can't you just like the game for itself? Does your life suck that much, that you need to find self-affirmation in a pc game with your fancy unlocks and achievements?
A: Yeah! Exactly! I live in a small apartement with smoked windows and a lot ( I mean A LOT) of cats. The only positive thing in my life are Steam Achievements.
The fact that nearly 99% of multiplayer games today offer Achievements and Unlocks has absolutely nothing to do with the stuff im sayin.
It's not that a lot of players are common with such stuff and EXPECT a game to have it.
It's just all about my cats.
----
Q: Achievements and Unlocks will make the game so much worse! People will try to kill all skulks with axes, because the Achievement demands it. It will screw up any sort of teamplay....
A: Chill. It all depends on the implementation of such a system. If you make achievements which encourage bullpoop, people will more likely do bullpoop.
If you make achievements which encourage teamplay and good performance, people will less likely do bullpoop.
f.e. an achievement: "Kill 8 Skulks in a row with an axe, while typing 'olololololololol'" = bad
contrary to: "Repair 1000 points of armor on a single allied Exo-Suit" = good
If you unlock more fancy stuff with points which you gain mostly by WINNING, people might try to win harder. And if you only hand out points if you're still in match if it ends, it will help to solve the leaver problem.
I honestly don't see where you might want to find a problem with this.
From my perspective it will just create a better experience for everyone who plays pub matches.
People who play solely for an achievement wall on steam, or to unlock the latest hat for their in game character? These are sad times indeed.
People who play solely for an achievement wall on steam, or to unlock the latest hat for their in game character? These are sad times indeed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Luckily, the OP is in the clear minority in this case. I will never understand the new generation and their needs for virtual cred. And I am quite happy with that.
The following years will belong to independent developers. And that will ultimately end up with that the previous horrible decade of recycled gaming ideas, engines and sequels for the masses is completely forgotten and a new whole "new" gaming era begins. And this itself will bring many old timers back, and at the same time the new players will re-discover the real fun in gaming.
I hope.
seriously, i creased playing because of lacking content and death, not achievement. else i would have stopped 10 years ago oh wait.
A: Because it is mainly addressed to the devs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So write them an email if you dont want the public to tell you your ideas are stupid.
Otherwise.
Your ideas are stupid.
People who play solely for an achievement wall on steam, or to unlock the latest hat for their in game character? These are sad times indeed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ehh, it works. It's kinda like gaming junk food. It's really not good for you and only barely qualifies as nutritious, but you eat it anyway, especially if you have no taste.
It does not, however preclude the existence of decent cooking.
Not really 'sad times' as much as inevitable consequence of any developed medium. People eventually figure out the bits that sell and appeal to the most people, and then make things completely composes of the marketable things, while leaving out the substance because... well... it just isn't needed to make money. Hence artificial sweetener, autotuned dance club music, reality television, and COD clones.
It's a good thing really, it shows gaming is becoming a more well understood medium, eventually people get bored of the mass produced stuff and you get some new innovation, which in turn becomes mass produced eventually and necessitates a new innovation again. But all the while you build more knowledge and understanding of the medium, and the whole thing lurches unsteadily forwards, leaving a trail of occasional masterpieces in its wake.
Plus some things are just good. I don't care for COD but it's a great example of how to do an interface well. If every game had an interface and controls like that we'd have a lot more good FPS games. Some things don't get old, they become an integral part of the medium, those are the things that make the whole cycle worth it.
Over 400 achievements and constant content additions didn't manage to make me want to go back to TF2, though.
More often than the other way around does my motivation to come back to a game ebb away once I actually reached most of the achievements in it or reached the highest rank (bye, Modern Warfare 1).
Your credibility also went out of the window at the point where you called everyone who does not agree with your opinion a fanboy. I never heard about UWE and never played the original NS. I am only here because I bought a game two weeks ago and like it. Does that make me a fanboy? Nope, I am just disappointed with today's torpid casual gaming generation like many others and am happy that there is finally a game in such a long time that dares to make things differently.
And the wrong people for the wrong reasons in the game can hurt the community of the game more than the lack of those guys. Saw it happening in SMNC already: the weeks after the cross-promotion with TF2 launched were just horrible for the existing player base because there were a lot of players around who were giving a damn about the game and just came for the free hats that they got from the achievements.
Using "UWE wants to make money" as argument doesn't work a lot in this discussion either: people already bought the game. The devs don't need to worry as much about player retention after the purchase as F2P titles would need to.