30 Tic Servers Compared To 100tic?
grizzlyyy
Join Date: 2012-10-09 Member: 161924Members
Join Date: 2012-10-09 Member: 161924Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Why 30 Tic?</div>"During each tick, the server processes incoming user commands, runs a physical simulation step, checks the game rules, and updates all object states. After simulating a tick, the server decides if any client needs a world update and takes a snapshot of the current world state if necessary. A higher tickrate increases the simulation precision, but also requires more CPU power and available bandwidth on both server and client."
With this being said. Why are all the servers 30 Tic? That might be a huge reason as to why the hit registration is off and people are dying around corners. And that the gameplay feels choppy. Being an avid Counter-Strike player since 1.3. I can assure you there is a huge difference in feel and registry from 30 Tic to 100 Tic.
Update: Also, client netcode cvars would be nice as well as graphical cvars.
With this being said. Why are all the servers 30 Tic? That might be a huge reason as to why the hit registration is off and people are dying around corners. And that the gameplay feels choppy. Being an avid Counter-Strike player since 1.3. I can assure you there is a huge difference in feel and registry from 30 Tic to 100 Tic.
Update: Also, client netcode cvars would be nice as well as graphical cvars.
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Comments
I'm just thinking why this isn't the case with Counter-Strike. It didn't seem to be an issue there. 30 Tic is what listen servers are and that's god awful.
Different engines, different requirements. From a quick google it seems the UT3 engine runs on a default of 30-40 tick rate, don't quote me on that though... just the general consensus of the top 3 results.
######, CS:GO comp servers run at 128tick and still have registry issues.
######, CS:GO comp servers run at 128tick and still have registry issues.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well Counter-Strike 1.6 ran on the GldSrc engine and ran optimally at 100 tic. Counter-Strike: Source ran on the Source engine and ran optimally at 100 tic. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive runs on a modified Source engine and runs optimally at 100+ tic. The main difference been between 1.6 and source. Different engines but both run optimally at 100 tic. I believe Counter-Strike 1.5 and below ran on the Quake engine and also ran optimally at 100 tic. It was my belief that tick rate really has nothing to do with the engine as much as it has to do with netcode. It would appear that it would not be difficult at all to implement 100 tic servers into Natural Selection 2. In 1.6 and Source you were able to choose between 66 tic and 100 tic. All competitive servers had 100 tic as it was a must for optimal hit registration. Anything below that was considered not decent for competitive play.
I've played a lot of games competitively. Counter-Strike 1.6, CS:S, CoD 4, Team Fortress 2, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament 2004, Tribes. The main thing that all these games shared is that if I played on a server that was 60 tic or below you could feel the difference. It was noticeable how lacking in updates the gameplay was. You would fire an extra shot at the end of a clip because the server failed to update that information or people would be killed around corners because the hit registration took too long to update. The gameplay would feel sluggish and the hitboxes off. Which is exactly how NS2 feels right now.
There were even some mad men running 10k tic, but you could notice that because the game then ran faster.
Aren't you noticing a trend here? Every single one of those engines was made by Valve and to their own personal liking/experience.
Are you also aware that Left 4 Dead, a valve game, runs optimally (and only) on 30 (or 33?) tick? Might be others, that's just the only one I know off the top of my head.
There were even some mad men running 10k tic, but you could notice that because the game then ran faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're talking about 1000 FPS servers instead of tic. FPS and tic are completely different.
<!--quoteo(post=2029566:date=Nov 19 2012, 08:09 PM:name=turtsmcgurt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (turtsmcgurt @ Nov 19 2012, 08:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029566"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aren't you noticing a trend here? Every single one of those engines was made by Valve and to their own personal liking/experience.
Are you also aware that Left 4 Dead, a valve game, runs optimally (and only) on 30 (or 33?) tick? Might be others, that's just the only one I know off the top of my head.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well Counter-Strike 1.5 and below ran on the Quake engine. So does CoD 4. Both of those games run optimal at 100 tic server side and are made by different developers. Like I said I believe it has nothing to do with the engine itself. It just needs to simply be implemented by the developers. Because tic rate is on the networking side of things and effects how the server reads updates from the client. They already have 30 tic implemented. How hard is it to add in 100 tic?
HL1 and GldSrc is built upon the Quake 3 engine. It's the same engine, just modified. The ticrate won't do much with hit registration, it's a problem with the game engine itself. Quite similar to Source engine's issues with hit reg.
<b>@ Maritz:</b>
1000 FPS = 100 ticrate
HL1 and GldSrc is built upon the Quake 3 engine. It's the same engine, just modified. The ticrate won't do much with hit registration, it's a problem with the game engine itself. Quite similar to Source engine's issues with hit reg.
<b>@ Maritz:</b>
1000 FPS = 100 ticrate<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still believe it has to do with a lot of the issues that are going on though. Such as the pistol reload bug happening to some players. Or extra bullet animations being played at the end of a clip. Or people being killed from around the corner with low latency. I do think that the engine is partly to blame in it's current state but I strongly believe tic rate is partly to blame for a lot of these issues as well. I mean heck I can run a 30 tic listen/dedicated server off my desktop, that should tell you something right there.
Unreal Tournament 2004 games run on a default of 20tick with unwanted effects if raised from that. Tribes 2 runs at something absurd like 14 tickrate, I highly doubt Tribes 1 runs any higher than that, I too also played T2/TF2 competitively. You never saw a tribes server above 20 tick. Quake 3 ran at about 20 tick rate while Quake Live is rocking a 40. Couldn't find any documentation of the IW3.0 engine's tick rate (aka COD4). TF2/CS1.6/CS:S all share the same engine and I've already commented on those in a different post.
edit: I got all of these numbers from quick google of the game's engine, may or may not be correct but I tried at least :3
edit: I got all of these numbers from quick google of the game's engine, may or may not be correct but I tried at least :3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh I was just about to ask for links because I tried googling them and came up with nothing. Only posts speculating about packets but not official tic rate.
Regardless I can run a 30 tic server off of my iphone (dramatization). No but seriously off of my desktop without having to go through a server company. That should raise a red flag right there.
1000 FPS = 100 ticrate<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then why was the cvar named sys_ticrate? Am I missing something here?
It won't have much of a significant difference as you would like to believe. You can have a 200 ticrate server for Src engine games, yet you will still experience hit registration issues.
<b>@ turtsmcgurt:</b>
Left 4 Dead, Counter-Strike: Source, Half-Life 2: Deathmatch, Team Fortress 2 etc. They all share the very same issues. Horrible hit registration.
PS! CS 1.6 is based on GldSrc, an updated engine of the HL1, which essentially is a modified engine of the Q3A's engine.
Edit:
<b>@ Maritz:</b>
fps_max and sys_ticrate is the same thing. The values works just different from HL1 to Source, that's all. Hence, 1000 = 100.
Regardless I can run a 30 tic server off of my iphone (dramatization). No but seriously off of my desktop without having to go through a server company. That should raise a red flag right there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All I did was google the game name + tick rate, or engine name + tick rate, feel free to check for yourself I guess.
"Unreal Engine 3 tick rate"
"Quake 3 tick rate"
Sure you can start the server, but how many people can join before it starts running like ######.
It won't have much of a significant difference as you would like to believe. You can have a 200 ticrate server for Src engine games, yet you will still experience hit registration issues.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wouldn't the registration issues be client sided though in this case. I've found in 1.6 and source those that experience registration issues on a 100 tic server usually don't have a good connection. I'm on a fios 25 up/25 down connection hardwired and have no registry problems at 100 tic. Also it could be that they aren't setting up their netvars properly client side (eg. rate 100000 cl_cmdrate 101 cl_updaterate 101 cl_interp 0.1)
No, it's nothing of that sort. It's been proven time after time in various licensed games and mods built on the Src engine.
######, CS:GO comp servers run at 128tick and still have registry issues.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no they don't, they run at 64, which is why many are complaining of their forums... hit reg is pretty bad at low tics, especially for a game like cs
No, it's nothing of that sort. It's been proven time after time in various licensed games and mods built on the Src engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know. I just hope they fix it soon. I find that I have to terminate every running service on my computer that I'm not using, run NS2.exe on high priority and play at 1024x768 just to achieve a playable fps. I can't even play on my native resolution of 1920x1080 or else it feels like I'm wading through quicksand. My PC far surpasses the minimum requirements listed and even the dev's said in a post I made in the technical forums that my PC is more than capable of running NS2 just fine, but apparently not. I know this is aside from the ticrate topic, but just so many things are wrong.
<u><b>My Specifications:</b></u>
Windows 7 64 bit
AMD Athlon II x4 640 @ 3.5 GHz (overclocked from stock 3.0 GHz)
XFX Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 (overclocked: 930 gpu clock, 1250 memory clock)
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (4 x 2GB) DDR3 1600
MSI 870-G45 AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power Supply
Western Digital WD Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
YA DON'T SAY.
Modern, non death match games all run at around 30 to 40. Because, you know, they have actual processing to do. And no, the tick rate has nothing to do with you being shot around corners. The fact that you are playing on the <b>internet </b>is why it happens, you've just never played a game in which you move fast enough to notice it.
YA DON'T SAY.
Modern, non death match games all run at around 30 to 40. Because, you know, they have actual processing to do. And no, the tick rate has nothing to do with you being shot around corners. The fact that you are playing on the <b>internet </b>is why it happens, you've just never played a game in which you move fast enough to notice it.</strike>
a troll.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've played Tribes. Does that count as moving fast?
I definitely hope they will fix this very soon. There's just so many things that literally are game-breaking.
Do you have vertical synchronization enabled? Adaptive anti-aliasing? Smoothvision HD? Things like that can really ruin your performance in games.
<u><b>Hardware Specification:</b></u>
<b>CPU:</b> Intel i7-920 (@ 3.4 GHz)
<b>GPU:</b> Radeon HD 4870 X2
<b>RAM:</b> Corsair XMS3 8 GB (@ 1833 MHz)
<u><b>Game Configuration:</b></u>
<b>Resolution:</b> 1920 x 1080
<b>Texture Quality:</b> Low
<b>Infestation:</b> Minimal
<b>Anti-Analising:</b> Off
<b>Bloom:</b> Off
<b>Atmospherics:</b> Off
<b>Anistropic Filtering:</b> Off
<b>Ambient Occlusion:</b> Off
<b>Shadows:</b> Off
<b>Texture Streaming:</b> Off
<b><u>In-Game Performance:</u></b>
<b>Out of combat:</b> 110-130 FPS
<b>In combat:</b> 70-90 FPS
<b>Late game:</b> 40-60 FPS
Ok, let me rephrase.
You've never played a game that allowed you to move this fast in whichever direction you wanted to. A 12 year old could do the prediction code for tribes, because you move in almost the exact same direction all the time, with only slight changes. Also, acceleration is incredibly slow in tribes, meaning the prediction never has to suddenly catch up.
<u><b>Game Configuration:</b></u>
Resolution: 1920x1080
Texture Quality: Low
Infestation: Minimal
Anti-Analising: Off
Bloom: Off
Atmospherics: Off
Anistropic Filtering: Off
Ambient Occlusion: Off
Shadows: Off
Texture Streaming: Off
Multicore Rendering: On
<u><b>In-Game Performance:</b></u>
Out of combat: 35 FPS
In combat: 15-25 FPS
Late game: 10-15 FPS
<u><b>Game Configuration:</b></u>
Resolution: 1024x768
Texture Quality: Low
Infestation: Minimal
Anti-Analising: Off
Bloom: Off
Atmospherics: Off
Anistropic Filtering: Off
Ambient Occlusion: Off
Shadows: Off
Texture Streaming: Off
Multicore Rendering: On
<u><b>In-Game Performance:</b></u>
Out of combat: 75 FPS
In combat: 35-50 FPS
Late game: 25-35 FPS
Is it just me or is there a huge difference in switching resolutions lol
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=123956" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=123956</a>
Unfortunately there is, in most other games I can play at my native resolution (1920x1080) and perform well with my meager computer.
In ns2, I have to drop it to "720p" to run the game in a semi-playable state. Detail still on medium as it doesn't noticeably affect performance and the game is heavily cpu bound.
Anything outside of Shadows, Atmospherics, and Ambient Occlusion can be turned on as their performance impact is negligible. You'll still hitch like crazy if there are a lot of particle effects on the screen.
Nope. Left 4 Dead was played competitively for years at 30 tick and everyone knew it was awful. In the past year modders have been able to unlock altering the tick rate and anything above 30 is definitely noticeable. Listing games that run at lower tick rates is pointless, it's pretty simple maths that higher tick rate will create a better online experience.
However, it's been said before, the tick rate is set at 30 because that is the most stable number for server performance. Given future optimisation to the game the tick rate could be increased.