Just my two cents but i don't think we should have a surrender vote, simply remove the auto balance annoyance. This is a game i had last night on veil, marines got sub and pipe locked down within the first 5-6 minutes of the game, and then never left those areas, we had plenty of res but were completely screwed since we couldn't get either hive back. So some of us f4 to try to speed to the next round, what happens? it limits the marines taking out the whole reason we f4'd.
The auto balance is a big factor that makes games drag on from what i've seen, i've been a marine late game we were pushing and ending the game aliens start f4ing and suddenly half of our team is in limbo.
My suggestion would be put a 4-5 minute window on the auto balance, it makes sense early game since thats when having more people really helps you. but after 20 minutes its just prolonging a game that needs to just end.
As it is now it mostly just serves as annoyance for the team that's facing a team that already lost and is F4ing but still has a bunch of guys who are not F4ing.
I think a surrender vote option is a good idea. I've been trying to win a game as marines (hasn't happened yet) and almost all the games drag on for 5+ minutes after the loss is already inevitable. Usually what happens is we lose all of our res nodes outside the main base, have onos running in and spawn killing us constantly, but the aliens still can't quite seal the deal and knock out the power or IPs. This part of the game is pointless and frustrating. You have no res and no chance of a comeback, all you do is get spawnkilled by onos repeatedly.
<!--quoteo(post=2028568:date=Nov 19 2012, 12:42 AM:name=dethfield)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dethfield @ Nov 19 2012, 12:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028568"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think if anything, its attitudes like OP's that are ruining alot of games lately. As soon as things start to look a little bad, a bunch of players either leave to go and wait in the waiting room. Which means that team is guarenteed to lose because some of its members to cowardly to try and turn it around. That kind of crap may fly in RTS games, but should be happening in NS2.
People seem to only want to play when they are winning, and are not able to have fun (or believe they cant) when their team isnt doing well, despite that they are still right in the game, in the fight and playing. If anything, this surrender business needs to be removed and the auto balance function needs to be more aggressive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's a difference between being in a bad position such as the enemy team having more of the map and perhaps higher tech and being in an unwinnable position where your team has significantly less resource nodes, no upgrades/tech and are completely unable to push effectively.
We had one hive and exos in hive room, our comm left 20 seconds before it went down. I jumped in and dropped 2 (two!) hives on other tech point right the second it died. 30 minutes later, we win. Never surrender.
Dragging the game out for 30 minutes might be fun for some people, but I frequently have better ###### to do than shoot grenades at a power node. If it's the weekend and I have no plans, I don't really mind games not ending right away, but I ALWAYS try on the winning team to coordinate a finishing attack asap, getting the khamm to drifter enzyme, telling someone to go lerk and umbra, and coralling all the onos and gorges.
I also advocate f4ing when the game is over. This is an RTS game before it is an FPS game. When it's over, it's over. In starcraft, when you lose your 3rd base, you don't quit. But when you lose your entire army in the middle of the map and you don't have any more mining bases, it's considered BM to lift off your buildings and drag the game out for half an hour.
Yes, you can make comebacks, especially as aliens. But a match that is clearly over should be ENDED.
It would be nice if aliens have a recycle mechanic similar to marines. Let the commander decide when to concede the game as is the right of the leader of the team. If commander is stubborn about it, players can override via eject and someone else can be commander to recycle/decompose everything.
Marines have it already so don't see why Aliens can't have it as well.
<!--quoteo(post=2028868:date=Nov 19 2012, 09:28 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 19 2012, 09:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028868"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The DAK admin mod has a surrender vote, and honestly I sort of hate it. People don't vote to surrender when they're turtling up in base and fighting as hard as they can. They vote to surrender when the enemy team is on the march and death is inevitable, which is basically just stealing the satisfaction from the winning team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find just as much satisfaction from defeating a F4d team as I do from sieging their last chair for 15 minutes. It's much more fast and efficient if they F4, and enables me to play another interesting round for those 15 minutes rather than siege where you can't learn anything more about the game, or improve your gameplay in hardly any way.
It'd be nice if marines could get something like a portable nuke from 4 chairs, and aliens something equivalent (acid wave? lol) to enable those utterly stupid "matches" to end more quickly.
Given balanced teams, when one team has all RTs except 1 in your base, there's mathematically NO WAY you're going to win. I don't know what's so hard for people to understand there. I attribute it to the lack of RTS experience among FPS players personally. The only way to even get a second tech point is if somehow very soon after the siege starts 50%+ of the alien team quits, including the commander, absolutely terrible players join, then 50%+ of the marine team quits, and absolutely amazing players join, i.e. INCREDIBLE stacking on marine side very quickly after the siege starts.
If marines can't dig turtling aliens out of their last hive with exos, arcs, grenade launchers, and flamethrowers, they're doin' it wrong. The problem is trying to dig marines out of their last CC, when the only things they don't have access to are any new exos or JPs. Give aliens an endgame siege tech more advanced than a space rhino, and you'll see less of this.
I'm hoping things like Babblers end up being useful for swamping a base, Xenocide either gets replaced with something useful or becomes worth the massive time-on-target and pres loss for killing yourself, and the Fade sees an endgame tech (acid rockets or an improved Vortex, if nothing else). As is, I don't even bother getting Vortex or Xeno unless someone specifically asks for it.
Some way to spread infestation further out than cysts normally go, and maybe have it slowly start eating at structures, would be great. Force the marines to come out and do something about it, because their base is slowly crumbling around them. Right now, the only real way to finish a game is mass onos rush backed up with Umbra and Bile, and getting that going on a pub server is hard.
<!--quoteo(post=2028581:date=Nov 19 2012, 04:55 AM:name=Fappuchino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fappuchino @ Nov 19 2012, 04:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028581"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like the poster above mentioned, giving easy surrender options is essentially the devs supporting unfavorable behavior. At some point certain people would ask themselves why play a multiplayer game with 2 competing sides in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You're missing the point, it's not "unfavorable behavior" at all. Let's be real clear about this.
<b>I DON'T MIND LOSING.</b>
I am thrilled if the other team can pull off a sustained push that efficiently and directly ends the game. Hey, GG to the other team, a battle well played.
What I don't like is when your team can lose without losing. Usually with Marines it means losing their second tech point and most of their extractors. If the other team would roll in and finish it, I'd be fine with that. The problem is either that they don't, they won't or they can't.
Maybe you like spending 30 minutes playing a game you know you're going to lose, but I don't. Guess what? Neither do the other 11 guys on my 12 man team. If it's over, then END IT. Win the game.
If not, I'm not going to waste my time playing. No one wants to play a game they can't win. <b>It defeats the entire purpose of playing the game to begin with.</b>
I'm offering an alternative. Either allow teams to surrender, allowing for a "gentleman's victory" - or insert a mechanism that will force the game to end in X number of minutes.
Give the people something to play for.
Like I suggested above. Consider bombs at all the other tech points. If marines feel the game is lost they arm them. They explode in 10 minutes (or whatever) and in that time aliens have to win or their hives are toast. Guess what?
<b>We have a game here folks! </b>
Now, instead of the marines hitting F4 and leaving, it's a fight to the death to beat the clock. The marines have something to play for. They have a REASON to play. That's what it is all about. Give people a REASON to play and they will play. My suggestion will keep every last marine in the base playing to win. Since they now have a <i>chance </i>(albeit a slim one) to win.
For aliens the same would apply. Instead of bombs it could be that the last hive triggers a massive infestation that totally takes over the entire map. Game over for marines unless they kill that last hive. The bombs/infestation would not be able to be armed for 10-15 minutes (or whatever is reasonable), and the team would have to be down to their last tech/hive and res node.
If the other team just wants bodies to kill, put bots in. I'm not there to be target practice while the other team takes their sweet ass time to finish the game.
All I want is an end to the game - one way or another - without having to play a game that cannot be won. I don't think that's too much to ask.
<!--quoteo(post=2029019:date=Nov 19 2012, 06:20 PM:name=Brainmaggot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brainmaggot @ Nov 19 2012, 06:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029019"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I want to touch on another branch of this discussion. Something Necrosis said. He mentioned that quitting out before the game "actually" ends doesn't teach players anything. I think that's entirely wrong. Ending the game when the game really isn't able to turn around anymore makes it much more clear than having the team fight a battle they can't win under the impression that it isn't lost. I personally extend this and tell them over voice chat why the game was lost, what the opponents did well and what we as a team did bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I said was:
Encouraging players to quit doesn't teach them to learn from their mistake, and I would agree that forcing them to finish a game doesn't teach them to learn from their mistake either. However, it's a chance for more experience with weapons, coordination, learning how to work the interface.
So while I agree that dragging a game out doesn't teach them why they lost, it does give them more time with their weapons.
The difficulty with telling people that they have lost, F4, etc., is that a lot of players will ask you to F4 at the drop of a hat. Wrong upgrades, wrong tech, don't like the sound of the Comm's/Khamm's voice, you name it. For every well intentioned person vocally encouraging, in the right circumstances, for the game to end you'll have five other players screaming for F4s because they're not being medded fast enough.
But yes, the problem is with the people. Walling a team into their base with a stack of resources is only to drag a game out. The solution is not to grind them back into their base. Others in this thread have said that this problem occurs most often when marines are holed up in their spawn.
If we take this as fact, what can we do to strengthen alien endgame vs marine defence? If people cannot avoid grinding marines into their spawn then the only other solution is to boost abilities, like Xenocide, which trade your res advantage for damage. If you own the map then you can afford to bleed res.
<!--quoteo(post=2029433:date=Nov 19 2012, 08:37 PM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Nov 19 2012, 08:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're missing the point, it's not "unfavorable behavior" at all. Let's be real clear about this.
<b>I DON'T MIND LOSING.</b>
I am thrilled if the other team can pull off a sustained push that efficiently and directly ends the game. Hey, GG to the other team, a battle well played.
What I don't like is when your team can lose without losing. Usually with Marines it means losing their second tech point and most of their extractors. If the other team would roll in and finish it, I'd be fine with that. The problem is either that they don't, they won't or they can't.
Maybe you like spending 30 minutes playing a game you know you're going to lose, but I don't. Guess what? Neither do the other 11 guys on my 12 man team. If it's over, then END IT. Win the game.
If not, I'm not going to waste my time playing. No one wants to play a game they can't win. <b>It defeats the entire purpose of playing the game to begin with.</b>
I'm offering an alternative. Either allow teams to surrender, allowing for a "gentleman's victory" - or insert a mechanism that will force the game to end in X number of minutes.
Give the people something to play for.
Like I suggested above. Consider bombs at all the other tech points. If marines feel the game is lost they arm them. They explode in 10 minutes (or whatever) and in that time aliens have to win or their hives are toast. Guess what?
<b>We have a game here folks! </b>
Now, instead of the marines hitting F4 and leaving, it's a fight to the death to beat the clock. The marines have something to play for. They have a REASON to play. That's what it is all about. Give people a REASON to play and they will play. My suggestion will keep every last marine in the base playing to win. Since they now have a <i>chance </i>(albeit a slim one) to win.
For aliens the same would apply. Instead of bombs it could be that the last hive triggers a massive infestation that totally takes over the entire map. Game over for marines unless they kill that last hive. The bombs/infestation would not be able to be armed for 10-15 minutes (or whatever is reasonable), and the team would have to be down to their last tech/hive and res node.
If the other team just wants bodies to kill, put bots in. I'm not there to be target practice while the other team takes their sweet ass time to finish the game.
All I want is an end to the game - one way or another - without having to play a game that cannot be won. I don't think that's too much to ask.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not finishing the game was the chief complaint many of my friends had in NS1. It usually stemmed from one side cornering the other then refusing to attack until everyone had the top tier tech (which then led to "Hide and Seek" in the vents; glad to see that fixed).
I like the idea of marines having bombs to force an end, but what about the alien side? What mechanism can the aliens have to force the marines to end it?
A subject close to my heart. I cannot stand F4ers. Let me qualify that. I dont mind losing, and im sure the opposition didnt mind winning in that case. Let them win! Let them have a good game. If the game is fun then what is the problem? Even last stand bunkered marines can be amusing and a great time to try new things out.
As a comm I really really hate F4ers. I have had a match on the brink when people decide "its hopeless lets F4". Only for a lone lerk to take out the power in one chair then another and its a whole different game with no marine exos and no PRES. Ninja a hive on the freshly opened rooms and watch as exos cannot beacon to save the last chair.
A vote surrender option would be good. If that doesnt work then find another server.
F4ing is just lame though. Either quit the server completely or quit whining.
<!--quoteo(post=2030114:date=Nov 20 2012, 10:21 AM:name=kk20)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk20 @ Nov 20 2012, 10:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2030114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A vote surrender option would be good. If that doesnt work then find another server.
F4ing is just lame though. Either quit the server completely or quit whining.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really seeing the distinction between a "vote to surrender" and "f4ing". They seem to be one and the same.
Yes, comebacks happen. But not often enough to warrant aliens being continually spawn killed until the whole team is dual Exos, or worse Dual Exos holding the aliens in until the ARCS arrive... This likely goes back to the RTS portion of the game. Most commanders are probably RTS junkies, and RTS junkies like to finish with a bang (all research, units with max tech, etc). This does not lend it's self well to the FPS portion of the game.
So what is the point having arcs then? If a comm never gets to use them to finish a hive then why bother? People should play the game or quit. F4ing is lame. Vote surrender is a TEAM option. If the vote fails then people want to play on. Let them! F4ing takes the fun out of both sides, it can be fun to play with advanced lifeforms in the end game likewise EXO or kitted JP for marines. Just as much fun can be had on a "last stand" than winning. I suppose it depends what you want out of a public game.
Plus the team dont necessarily need to do as the comm says, if they go charging in with EXO, welder mates then the comm cant stop them. Max tech doesnt take that long to get (on either side). Likewise on the aliens by that time it is a case of charge the last stand which again can be fun.
<!--quoteo(post=2030171:date=Nov 20 2012, 11:25 AM:name=kk20)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk20 @ Nov 20 2012, 11:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2030171"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So what is the point having arcs then? If a comm never gets to use them to finish a hive then why bother?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It isn't ARCs that are the problem at all. It's the point of waiting for them with a force that is more than capable of destroying the Hive on it's own. It's pointless. The EXOs should move in and take the hive, not exclusively spawn kill while waiting for the whole team to have max tech, gear, a sentry farm, an armory, and Arcs to kill one hive aliens.
The same could be said for aliens, but it doesn't happen as often that you have everyone waiting to Onos, the Khaam surrounding the only marine base with crags and such.
<!--quoteo(post=2030097:date=Nov 20 2012, 12:07 PM:name=MMZ_Torak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MMZ_Torak @ Nov 20 2012, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2030097"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the idea of marines having bombs to force an end, but what about the alien side? What mechanism can the aliens have to force the marines to end it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I offered a possible suggestion above. A 'massive infestation'. The hive goes on countdown and if not destroyed will spawn infestation throughout the entire map. So while with marines the bombs would kill the hives, the alien alternative would see everything get covered in infestation. Game over.
There could also be strategy employed here to AVOID this. Aliens could leave the marines with three extractors to prevent them from starting a bomb timer. (recycling extractors wouldn't count - they have to be destroyed to allow the marine comm to start the bomb timer)
I like this 'timer' option better since it forces the game to end, while not actually depriving a team from their 'earned win'. Like I said, give people something to play for and they will play. When marines are down to their base and single res node, and they are in mid to late game, then let them start a bomb timer. Then it's up to aliens to 'finish' the marines with a coordinated push.
One massive end game battle, both teams fighting for a win. Isn't that what the game should be all about?
Right now after a certain point people know that they aren't going to win, but they are still forced to play. That's what I want to see end.
Comments
The auto balance is a big factor that makes games drag on from what i've seen, i've been a marine late game we were pushing and ending the game aliens start f4ing and suddenly half of our team is in limbo.
My suggestion would be put a 4-5 minute window on the auto balance, it makes sense early game since thats when having more people really helps you. but after 20 minutes its just prolonging a game that needs to just end.
As it is now it mostly just serves as annoyance for the team that's facing a team that already lost and is F4ing but still has a bunch of guys who are not F4ing.
People seem to only want to play when they are winning, and are not able to have fun (or believe they cant) when their team isnt doing well, despite that they are still right in the game, in the fight and playing. If anything, this surrender business needs to be removed and the auto balance function needs to be more aggressive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's a difference between being in a bad position such as the enemy team having more of the map and perhaps higher tech and being in an unwinnable position where your team has significantly less resource nodes, no upgrades/tech and are completely unable to push effectively.
Never surrender.
I also advocate f4ing when the game is over. This is an RTS game before it is an FPS game. When it's over, it's over. In starcraft, when you lose your 3rd base, you don't quit. But when you lose your entire army in the middle of the map and you don't have any more mining bases, it's considered BM to lift off your buildings and drag the game out for half an hour.
Yes, you can make comebacks, especially as aliens. But a match that is clearly over should be ENDED.
Marines have it already so don't see why Aliens can't have it as well.
I find just as much satisfaction from defeating a F4d team as I do from sieging their last chair for 15 minutes. It's much more fast and efficient if they F4, and enables me to play another interesting round for those 15 minutes rather than siege where you can't learn anything more about the game, or improve your gameplay in hardly any way.
It'd be nice if marines could get something like a portable nuke from 4 chairs, and aliens something equivalent (acid wave? lol) to enable those utterly stupid "matches" to end more quickly.
Given balanced teams, when one team has all RTs except 1 in your base, there's mathematically NO WAY you're going to win. I don't know what's so hard for people to understand there. I attribute it to the lack of RTS experience among FPS players personally. The only way to even get a second tech point is if somehow very soon after the siege starts 50%+ of the alien team quits, including the commander, absolutely terrible players join, then 50%+ of the marine team quits, and absolutely amazing players join, i.e. INCREDIBLE stacking on marine side very quickly after the siege starts.
I'm hoping things like Babblers end up being useful for swamping a base, Xenocide either gets replaced with something useful or becomes worth the massive time-on-target and pres loss for killing yourself, and the Fade sees an endgame tech (acid rockets or an improved Vortex, if nothing else). As is, I don't even bother getting Vortex or Xeno unless someone specifically asks for it.
Some way to spread infestation further out than cysts normally go, and maybe have it slowly start eating at structures, would be great. Force the marines to come out and do something about it, because their base is slowly crumbling around them. Right now, the only real way to finish a game is mass onos rush backed up with Umbra and Bile, and getting that going on a pub server is hard.
<b>I DON'T MIND LOSING.</b>
I am thrilled if the other team can pull off a sustained push that efficiently and directly ends the game. Hey, GG to the other team, a battle well played.
What I don't like is when your team can lose without losing. Usually with Marines it means losing their second tech point and most of their extractors. If the other team would roll in and finish it, I'd be fine with that. The problem is either that they don't, they won't or they can't.
Maybe you like spending 30 minutes playing a game you know you're going to lose, but I don't. Guess what? Neither do the other 11 guys on my 12 man team. If it's over, then END IT. Win the game.
If not, I'm not going to waste my time playing. No one wants to play a game they can't win. <b>It defeats the entire purpose of playing the game to begin with.</b>
I'm offering an alternative. Either allow teams to surrender, allowing for a "gentleman's victory" - or insert a mechanism that will force the game to end in X number of minutes.
Give the people something to play for.
Like I suggested above. Consider bombs at all the other tech points. If marines feel the game is lost they arm them. They explode in 10 minutes (or whatever) and in that time aliens have to win or their hives are toast. Guess what?
<b>We have a game here folks! </b>
Now, instead of the marines hitting F4 and leaving, it's a fight to the death to beat the clock. The marines have something to play for. They have a REASON to play. That's what it is all about. Give people a REASON to play and they will play. My suggestion will keep every last marine in the base playing to win. Since they now have a <i>chance </i>(albeit a slim one) to win.
For aliens the same would apply. Instead of bombs it could be that the last hive triggers a massive infestation that totally takes over the entire map. Game over for marines unless they kill that last hive. The bombs/infestation would not be able to be armed for 10-15 minutes (or whatever is reasonable), and the team would have to be down to their last tech/hive and res node.
If the other team just wants bodies to kill, put bots in. I'm not there to be target practice while the other team takes their sweet ass time to finish the game.
All I want is an end to the game - one way or another - without having to play a game that cannot be won. I don't think that's too much to ask.
He mentioned that quitting out before the game "actually" ends doesn't teach players anything.
I think that's entirely wrong. Ending the game when the game really isn't able to turn around anymore makes it much more clear than having the team fight a battle they can't win under the impression that it isn't lost. I personally extend this and tell them over voice chat why the game was lost, what the opponents did well and what we as a team did bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I said was:
Encouraging players to quit doesn't teach them to learn from their mistake, and I would agree that forcing them to finish a game doesn't teach them to learn from their mistake either. However, it's a chance for more experience with weapons, coordination, learning how to work the interface.
So while I agree that dragging a game out doesn't teach them why they lost, it does give them more time with their weapons.
The difficulty with telling people that they have lost, F4, etc., is that a lot of players will ask you to F4 at the drop of a hat. Wrong upgrades, wrong tech, don't like the sound of the Comm's/Khamm's voice, you name it. For every well intentioned person vocally encouraging, in the right circumstances, for the game to end you'll have five other players screaming for F4s because they're not being medded fast enough.
But yes, the problem is with the people. Walling a team into their base with a stack of resources is only to drag a game out. The solution is not to grind them back into their base. Others in this thread have said that this problem occurs most often when marines are holed up in their spawn.
If we take this as fact, what can we do to strengthen alien endgame vs marine defence? If people cannot avoid grinding marines into their spawn then the only other solution is to boost abilities, like Xenocide, which trade your res advantage for damage. If you own the map then you can afford to bleed res.
<b>I DON'T MIND LOSING.</b>
I am thrilled if the other team can pull off a sustained push that efficiently and directly ends the game. Hey, GG to the other team, a battle well played.
What I don't like is when your team can lose without losing. Usually with Marines it means losing their second tech point and most of their extractors. If the other team would roll in and finish it, I'd be fine with that. The problem is either that they don't, they won't or they can't.
Maybe you like spending 30 minutes playing a game you know you're going to lose, but I don't. Guess what? Neither do the other 11 guys on my 12 man team. If it's over, then END IT. Win the game.
If not, I'm not going to waste my time playing. No one wants to play a game they can't win. <b>It defeats the entire purpose of playing the game to begin with.</b>
I'm offering an alternative. Either allow teams to surrender, allowing for a "gentleman's victory" - or insert a mechanism that will force the game to end in X number of minutes.
Give the people something to play for.
Like I suggested above. Consider bombs at all the other tech points. If marines feel the game is lost they arm them. They explode in 10 minutes (or whatever) and in that time aliens have to win or their hives are toast. Guess what?
<b>We have a game here folks! </b>
Now, instead of the marines hitting F4 and leaving, it's a fight to the death to beat the clock. The marines have something to play for. They have a REASON to play. That's what it is all about. Give people a REASON to play and they will play. My suggestion will keep every last marine in the base playing to win. Since they now have a <i>chance </i>(albeit a slim one) to win.
For aliens the same would apply. Instead of bombs it could be that the last hive triggers a massive infestation that totally takes over the entire map. Game over for marines unless they kill that last hive. The bombs/infestation would not be able to be armed for 10-15 minutes (or whatever is reasonable), and the team would have to be down to their last tech/hive and res node.
If the other team just wants bodies to kill, put bots in. I'm not there to be target practice while the other team takes their sweet ass time to finish the game.
All I want is an end to the game - one way or another - without having to play a game that cannot be won. I don't think that's too much to ask.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not finishing the game was the chief complaint many of my friends had in NS1. It usually stemmed from one side cornering the other then refusing to attack until everyone had the top tier tech (which then led to "Hide and Seek" in the vents; glad to see that fixed).
I like the idea of marines having bombs to force an end, but what about the alien side? What mechanism can the aliens have to force the marines to end it?
As a comm I really really hate F4ers. I have had a match on the brink when people decide "its hopeless lets F4". Only for a lone lerk to take out the power in one chair then another and its a whole different game with no marine exos and no PRES. Ninja a hive on the freshly opened rooms and watch as exos cannot beacon to save the last chair.
A vote surrender option would be good. If that doesnt work then find another server.
F4ing is just lame though. Either quit the server completely or quit whining.
F4ing is just lame though. Either quit the server completely or quit whining.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really seeing the distinction between a "vote to surrender" and "f4ing". They seem to be one and the same.
Yes, comebacks happen. But not often enough to warrant aliens being continually spawn killed until the whole team is dual Exos, or worse Dual Exos holding the aliens in until the ARCS arrive... This likely goes back to the RTS portion of the game. Most commanders are probably RTS junkies, and RTS junkies like to finish with a bang (all research, units with max tech, etc). This does not lend it's self well to the FPS portion of the game.
Plus the team dont necessarily need to do as the comm says, if they go charging in with EXO, welder mates then the comm cant stop them. Max tech doesnt take that long to get (on either side). Likewise on the aliens by that time it is a case of charge the last stand which again can be fun.
It isn't ARCs that are the problem at all. It's the point of waiting for them with a force that is more than capable of destroying the Hive on it's own. It's pointless. The EXOs should move in and take the hive, not exclusively spawn kill while waiting for the whole team to have max tech, gear, a sentry farm, an armory, and Arcs to kill one hive aliens.
The same could be said for aliens, but it doesn't happen as often that you have everyone waiting to Onos, the Khaam surrounding the only marine base with crags and such.
There could also be strategy employed here to AVOID this. Aliens could leave the marines with three extractors to prevent them from starting a bomb timer. (recycling extractors wouldn't count - they have to be destroyed to allow the marine comm to start the bomb timer)
I like this 'timer' option better since it forces the game to end, while not actually depriving a team from their 'earned win'. Like I said, give people something to play for and they will play. When marines are down to their base and single res node, and they are in mid to late game, then let them start a bomb timer. Then it's up to aliens to 'finish' the marines with a coordinated push.
One massive end game battle, both teams fighting for a win. Isn't that what the game should be all about?
Right now after a certain point people know that they aren't going to win, but they are still forced to play. That's what I want to see end.