Hit Detection suspects
Csae
Join Date: 2012-11-17 Member: 172145Members
Join Date: 2012-11-17 Member: 172145Members
<div class="IPBDescription">It might be network lag ontop of fps lag</div>After the new patch i noticed i couldn't hit ######. And seen at least two players go 41-1.
So i started r_stats and net_stats and after awhile i noticed that even though my fps stayed the same (40-50), my client packet rate would now randomly drop my 40 into 15s and 20s and whenever this happened, GL hitting anything, even if they were standing still.
Most servers i play on (including officials) seem to be set to 30 packet rate(server side), and before the patch i enjoyed a nice 40 p.r. pretty much all the time and the net_stats ping would stay very close to my tab ping. ( i usually only hop on servers where i ping <70 and perf >90)
Now? ###### all, my ping goes from 20 to 160 (in the net stats, doesn't update that often in tab), the packet rate from 15-40 like a ping pong. So, if you're having hit detection woes, how about checking up on your net_stats for a bit and letting us know ?
That being said, and i'm obviously not the only one complaining, What the hell is up with the hit detection in NS2 ? Even with poor fps its never been this bad in any other video game i've ever played, and i used to play games at 15fps just for the purdy factor. Not to mention that i played a ######-ton of ns1 and would go pistol early for easy skulk kills, now i just wait for GLs.
On the flip side, i've become a pretty decent commander now :D
So i started r_stats and net_stats and after awhile i noticed that even though my fps stayed the same (40-50), my client packet rate would now randomly drop my 40 into 15s and 20s and whenever this happened, GL hitting anything, even if they were standing still.
Most servers i play on (including officials) seem to be set to 30 packet rate(server side), and before the patch i enjoyed a nice 40 p.r. pretty much all the time and the net_stats ping would stay very close to my tab ping. ( i usually only hop on servers where i ping <70 and perf >90)
Now? ###### all, my ping goes from 20 to 160 (in the net stats, doesn't update that often in tab), the packet rate from 15-40 like a ping pong. So, if you're having hit detection woes, how about checking up on your net_stats for a bit and letting us know ?
That being said, and i'm obviously not the only one complaining, What the hell is up with the hit detection in NS2 ? Even with poor fps its never been this bad in any other video game i've ever played, and i used to play games at 15fps just for the purdy factor. Not to mention that i played a ######-ton of ns1 and would go pistol early for easy skulk kills, now i just wait for GLs.
On the flip side, i've become a pretty decent commander now :D
Comments
shotgun is a bit dodgy, sometimes it gives you a glancing hit instead of a full-on hit, but the registration is no worse than any other game i've played.
maybe the shotgun hitreg is suffering because the random bullet spread requires more data to be sent to the server, more stuff to get delayed/dropped etc. i definitely don't see it with the other weapons though.
shotgun is a bit dodgy, sometimes it gives you a glancing hit instead of a full-on hit, but the registration is no worse than any other game i've played.
maybe the shotgun hitreg is suffering because the random bullet spread requires more data to be sent to the server, more stuff to get delayed/dropped etc. i definitely don't see it with the other weapons though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get the exact opposite, or maybe i don't notice because i actually get hits with the shotty, even a glancing hit is better than no hit.
I'd record myself playing and freezeframing random misses on what should be hits, but my fps couldn't handle it.
My ping usually stays around 40-50 and every 30 secs or so it will jump to 100+ and I won't be able to hit anything. Prior to this build I didn't notice this problem at all. I'm not complaining about the balance of the game or anything of that nature but whatever is going on is making the game <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>entirely unplayable</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> for me anymore =/
(I've mainly been playing marine this build so I don't know how its affected my alien)
I also noticed in net_stats that the number of msgs received and sent are very low, sometimes as low as 3/s a FAR Cry from the 30tick server rate. This would CLEARLY explain why hit detection is completely retarded. I understand maybe trying to keep this number low when things aren't happening, but perhaps the delay between all hell loose and walking in the park makes for all the first couple shots to be completely ignored cause last the game heard you were walking in the park.
To be specific, i don't think hit detection *working* is bad, i think there is a specific bug?problem? causing a certain amount of people to get completely retarded hit detection, this is easily brushed off by people who aren't suffering from it by "nub" "noskill" calls but thats just ignoring the problem, a simple "I haven't had any issues" is more helpful.
Now, anyone with hit detection problems, who can keep an eye on their net_stats might want to contribute here instead of continuing a long running thread that talks about the general aspect of hit detection.
This has been frustrating especially in instances where many marines (3-5) are attacked by a single skulk, and it takes a full clip or two from every member to finally take it down.
In summary: I've noticed the exact same thing that you're talking about.
I'd record myself playing and freezeframing random misses on what should be hits, but my fps couldn't handle it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing about the shotty is that I see a miss and it pops up as 100 or 133 damage (full shot damage). So a glancing shot from my perspective is somehow a full damage hit. I tend to aim just a tiny fraction behind aliens movement, which tends to have a much higher success rate of being a full damage shot (one shot kill vs skulks)
This is only related to aliens moving across you screen, instead of coming right at you. but it does show something weird with the shotty... :)
Next step would be to get some video footage with r_stats and net_stats i guess.
Back in my day, "lag compensation" meant kicking or banning people with over 150 ping!
But, honestly, what I wouldn't do to at least have a chance to try a test build without the lag compensation... just to see what it's like. I imagine a world where I no longer belly slide down a winding tunnel and die after the second turn from Marines still in the doorway. (Only a SLIGHT exaggeration. It has happened.)
Back in my day, "lag compensation" meant kicking or banning people with over 150 ping!
But, honestly, what I wouldn't do to at least have a chance to try a test build without the lag compensation... just to see what it's like. I imagine a world where I no longer belly slide down a winding tunnel and die after the second turn from Marines still in the doorway. (Only a SLIGHT exaggeration. It has happened.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be unplayable on marines when you are trying to aim far enough ahead of the pancaking lerk or leaping skulk to hit where the hitbox is on the server. People really need to stop ###### about lag compensation and realize the alternative is far worse unless you are playing with less than 50ms all the time.
Well that's rather rude. All I said was I would like to have a chance to see it for myself, not that I would want it suddenly forced upon everyone.
And the hit registration is not a small problem. Aliens who are constantly killed around corners are not likely to be having fun, as it feels very unfair. Players are pushing for a fix sooner rather than later because it is hurting exactly what a game should be, FUN.
And, of course, I remember playing Quake 2 and 3, and Aliens vs Predator 2 with no lag problems on 56k back in the day, but I can't remember if AvP2 had lag compensation.
EDIT: And it's not just aliens having problems. Marines watching blood fly out of an alien, seeing hit markers, then getting no damage popups, and finally, dying to an enemy they filled with ineffective rounds.
Back in my day, "lag compensation" meant kicking or banning people with over 150 ping!
But, honestly, what I wouldn't do to at least have a chance to try a test build without the lag compensation... just to see what it's like. I imagine a world where I no longer belly slide down a winding tunnel and die after the second turn from Marines still in the doorway. (Only a SLIGHT exaggeration. It has happened.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->Amen.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=2028410:date=Nov 18 2012, 09:52 PM:name=MinstrelJCF)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MinstrelJCF @ Nov 18 2012, 09:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028410"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would be unplayable on marines when you are trying to aim far enough ahead of the pancaking lerk or leaping skulk to hit where the hitbox is on the server. People really need to stop ###### about lag compensation and realize the alternative is far worse unless you are playing with less than 50ms all the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->Sounds like you've never experienced gaming without lag compensation. It is <b>far</b> from unplayable and generally preferred by any old school gamer. Do you not care about ping? I sort servers by ping and <b>always</b> join the lowest available, it's a rare occasion if I play on a server if it has over a 50 ping<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->Sounds like you've never experienced gaming without lag compensation. It is <b>far</b> from unplayable and generally preferred by any old school gamer. Do you not care about ping? I sort servers by ping and <b>always</b> join the lowest available,<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><b> it's a rare occasion if I play on a server if it has over a 50 ping<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></b>
This. If you can't get less than 65 ping consistently, you're either picking bad servers or something's up with your internet. The only times I EVER see my ping go above 65 is if I'm playing on a server that's not on the west coast.
Yeah the client side predicted blood and hiticon on crosshair are a big part of this frustration
This. If you can't get less than 65 ping consistently, you're either picking bad servers or something's up with your internet. The only times I EVER see my ping go above 65 is if I'm playing on a server that's not on the west coast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Something i noticed is that your ping is averaged out very roughly.
Try net_stats and watch your ping fly across the board even on a server that you joined because it was marked as 60 ping.
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->This has <b>A LOT</b> to do with the game's performance and your hardware, namely TCP/IP Offloading.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->Sounds like you've never experienced gaming without lag compensation. It is <b>far</b> from unplayable and generally preferred by any old school gamer. Do you not care about ping? I sort servers by ping and <b>always</b> join the lowest available, it's a rare occasion if I play on a server if it has over a 50 ping<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played quake 2 from eastern europe with 150+ ping, I played original TF on dial up, thanks for your tip on connecting to servers where you get a low ping, sometimes I'm forced to play with double digit ping in London.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/gTTii.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This. If you can't get less than 65 ping consistently, you're either picking bad servers or something's up with your internet. The only times I EVER see my ping go above 65 is if I'm playing on a server that's not on the west coast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I live on the west coast on a military base in which you have little to no internet options. I play video games competitively, and there isn't a single team I have <b>ever</b> (literally) heard of that has had a west coast server at any point in time. It's almost always Chicago or Dallas, pinging 60-80 and 90-120 respectively. Lag Interpolation is going to be implemented in every modern FPS until a better option is available.
<!--quoteo(post=2028569:date=Nov 18 2012, 11:43 PM:name=ritualsacrifice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ritualsacrifice @ Nov 18 2012, 11:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028569"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only times I EVER see my ping go above 65 is if I'm playing on a server that's not on the west coast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's great and all for pubs, I guess. I don't think I have ever heard an actual good player say they dislike lag interpolation, just random people that complain that they got shot around corners. Perhaps it's just because they<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--> (the good players)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> know the alternative is even worse?
When you can't dodge, or get hit with burst fire instead of normal incremental dmg, skill really doesn't help. You'll be hitting a power node and instead of getting shot and having a split second to move, you'll just instantly die.
Its not a matter of skill or what lag interpolation is meant, its clearly a bug of sorts, and it all points to network issues of sorts, not related to pings.
Oh, and for those that want a say on it ...
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124924" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=124924</a><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I died around 3 corners later.
Meaning i was fighting Repair room from Logistics, and blinked back to the hive only to die right at the door. (we had logistics and the hive build and cleared, so no possibility of a stray marine)
That makes the shot lag compensation about 2seconds worth. (We were both pinging about 70)
Unplayable.