<!--quoteo(post=2025212:date=Nov 15 2012, 09:48 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Nov 15 2012, 09:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025212"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are definitely some problems that slipped into 229 on the alien side. We're about to start testing some fixes now so we can get a build out to you shortly. Sorry!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any buffs to movement and the fade??? Changes to Tres model for Onos??? There have to be! These changes are of utmost importance!
<!--quoteo(post=2025271:date=Nov 15 2012, 07:54 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Nov 15 2012, 07:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, lets send crags back to the way they were. You know, when almost no one bothered to even build them until you started to siege the final Marines turtle.
Yes, lets put regeneration back to where it was. You know, when no one used it at all because Carapace was simply <i>so much better</i>.
Yes, lets leave the Armory in the game as-is. You know, the one that you can build walls that heal both health and armor?
Not that Carapace isn't still far better for most higher life forms, mind you. At least Fades and Lerks have an alternative now, while Gorges and Onos are still mini-tanks with Carapace.
Because Marines should be able to down an Onos while it's standing on three heal stations. You know, the same Onos that has zero ranged attacks.
After all, it isn't like the aliens need to spend 3 T.Res per crag every 8 seconds. <i>That would be broken.</i>
(Just came across Flayra saying it's going to be reverted. Oh well, back to regen being left out until end-game by this commander.)
I never said that they didnt need to change things. I said said that the changes made where to extreme. They went from one extreme to another. And even if they revert only regen. Doesnt mean that aliens are now totally nerfed, the other buffs still are in effect.
<!--quoteo(post=2025270:date=Nov 15 2012, 08:53 PM:name=xposed-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xposed- @ Nov 15 2012, 08:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025270"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My honest opinion, just get better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't mean to raise another issue, but I think that right there is part of the problem. Some people <b>have </b>gotten better. And us, who don't have time to spend "getting better" are stuck getting plowed by people who already have (gotten better).
I guess the only thing I can suggest is either matchmaking, or (a probably much simpler solution, definitely not the best, but it's all I got right now) maybe have something like a "pro" or "veteran" tag, similar to the rookie tag, so inexperience players know to just quit immediately upon seeing something like that, instead of joining a game just get kicked around like a ragdoll, which does not make for a fun game, nor a repeat player.
<!--quoteo(post=2025309:date=Nov 15 2012, 08:27 PM:name=eaturbrainz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eaturbrainz @ Nov 15 2012, 08:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025309"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't mean to raise another issue, but I think that right there is part of the problem. Some people <b>have </b>gotten better. And us, who don't have time to spend "getting better" are stuck getting plowed by people who already have (gotten better).
I guess the only thing I can suggest is either matchmaking, or (a probably much simpler solution, definitely not the best, but it's all I got right now) maybe have something like a "pro" or "veteran" tag, similar to the rookie tag, so inexperience players know to just quit immediately upon seeing something like that, instead of joining a game just get kicked around like a ragdoll, which does not make for a fun game, nor a repeat player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And its not about "get better". I find myself excelling at both races. I do not favor playing one side or the other, just whatever style I am in the mood for. Now aliens are so much easier to play than marines, by such a large amount that it is unfun to play either.
So this "get better" is a poor excuse to make an excuses for something that you know is wrong.
Well I´m new to NS2 and have just been playing since 228, so I can just describe what I`m seeing on all the public servers I´ve been playing on these last few days.
Since 229 I haven`t seen a single Marine Win in ~20 games. Lategame, even with all upgrades Marines just get overrun :/
<!--quoteo(post=2025326:date=Nov 15 2012, 09:41 PM:name=g0dAr1es)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g0dAr1es @ Nov 15 2012, 09:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025326"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And its not about "get better". I find myself excelling at both races. I do not favor playing one side or the other, just whatever style I am in the mood for. Now aliens are so much easier to play than marines, by such a large amount that it is unfun to play either.
So this "get better" is a poor excuse to make an excuses for something that you know is wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know, I don't think that it's <i>that</i> OP until mid-game when Fades start to appear. I fully acknowledge that it's possible it's been tweaked too far in the opposite direction, but it didn't seem vastly different than 228 to me as a commander. I know I actually researched it for once, just to give people the chance to mess with it. Not sure how many went with it, but I know that as a skulk people were still dying left and right. Fades seemed to be holding their own perhaps a bit better than usual. Couldn't say how much of that was regen, or how much of that was just skilled fade work.
I can tell you that the Aliens players seemed to be a higher caliber today. I had very few derps on the aliens team, and I didn't have even a single game where someone didn't pay attention to orders. That, more than anything else, is what struck me about todays matches.
<!--quoteo(post=2025335:date=Nov 15 2012, 08:50 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Nov 15 2012, 08:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025335"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know, I don't think that it's <i>that</i> OP until mid-game when Fades start to appear. I fully acknowledge that it's possible it's been tweaked too far in the opposite direction, but it didn't seem vastly different than 228 to me as a commander. I know I actually researched it for once, just to give people the chance to mess with it. Not sure how many went with it, but I know that as a skulk people were still dying left and right. Fades seemed to be holding their own perhaps a bit better than usual. Couldn't say how much of that was regen, or how much of that was just skilled fade work.
I can tell you that the Aliens players seemed to be a higher caliber today. I had very few derps on the aliens team, and I didn't have even a single game where someone didn't pay attention to orders. That, more than anything else, is what struck me about todays matches.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am not just talking about regen. Yes I see it being a bit over the top (it did need a buff however) if you add that to all the other buffs it becomes to much. But for comparison for my own account. I usually get 1:1 2:1 as skulk, sometimes more. Now with regen I have gotten closer to 8:1. Go in bite once or twice, back out, wait for 2 seconds to regen and go back in, repeat.
I just play on aliens instead of not playing, but I can't blame anyone who wants to shelve the game for a few weeks to see where it goes. <!--quoteo(post=2025271:date=Nov 16 2012, 12:54 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Nov 16 2012, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, lets leave the Armory in the game as-is. You know, the one that you can build walls that heal both health and armor?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is this really a big problem? Usually if I'm gorge I just keep bile bomb up on structures and they go down really fast. They can probably weld through bile bomb, but they can't weld through a bile bomb and an onos etc. They're quite strong but the alien counter costs half the cost of the wall itself :\
Everybody gripes about Regeneration, but honestly I think the passive regen might be the biggest buff of the patch. It makes a massive difference to alien map presence - a skulk that might otherwise have run all the way back to the hive can instead just get back in position and be full health for the next fight. I don't know if it should be nerfed or not but we shouldn't pin the winrate shift entirely on Regen and Crags.
<!--quoteo(post=2025344:date=Nov 15 2012, 10:08 PM:name=Draco Houston)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco Houston @ Nov 15 2012, 10:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025344"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just play on aliens instead of not playing, but I can't blame anyone who wants to shelve the game for a few weeks to see where it goes.
Is this really a big problem? Usually if I'm gorge I just keep bile bomb up on structures and they go down really fast. They can probably weld through bile bomb, but they can't weld through a bile bomb and an onos etc. They're quite strong but the alien counter costs half the cost of the wall itself :\<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was a bit of hyperbole, but one could also say GL spam would be an effective counter to crags. It was, but couldn't really say since at no point today did the Marines get GL's to clear out my structures beyond maybe one guy that got separated from the rest of his little squad. I can say the whips seem to be a lot more effective at not killing themselves with crappy rebounds though.
<!--quoteo(post=2025351:date=Nov 16 2012, 02:15 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Nov 16 2012, 02:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025351"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was a bit of hyperbole, but one could also say GL spam would be an effective counter to crags. It was, but couldn't really say since at no point today did the Marines get GL's to clear out my structures beyond maybe one guy that got separated from the rest of his little squad. I can say the whips seem to be a lot more effective at not killing themselves with crappy rebounds though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah there isn't much you can do about a bad team. :( Such is life I guess.
There are definite imbalances but I'm not sure if any of the recent changes are a <b>big</b> problem for balance. The 2 hive tres onos is still the strongest, safest build and until then basically the whole alien side is 'overpowered' because it comes in addition to something that is already too powerful. Thankfully, UWE have seen that there is a problem, and it is good to see Flayra post about it, I just hope it gets fixed before people stop playing. Once it is fixed things will probably be more clear.
At least there are still enough bad pub alien teams out there to let the marines win sometimes, and no one is locked in to playing a certain side.
<!--quoteo(post=2025160:date=Nov 15 2012, 05:47 PM:name=g0dAr1es)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g0dAr1es @ Nov 15 2012, 05:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025160"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However with aliens its so EASY to have literally 0 deaths the whole game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We have roflcopters on the horizon.
It may be a <b>little</b> easier to play aliens right now, with crags which actually work, very active passive/active regen, and 100% camouflage, but marines seem to be winning quite a lot of games too. The above statement is literally ridiculous for obvious reasons.
<!--quoteo(post=2025365:date=Nov 16 2012, 01:40 AM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 16 2012, 01:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025365"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->marines seem to be winning quite a lot of games too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not on the servers I play. I've played around 12 matches on the last 2 days, marines won once.
I seriously doubt that's the overall case in the game right now. I'm not sure about the internal stats from the entire game, but nsstats shows more towards 40/60.
If winrates are really 20% or below for marines, I wouldn't be surprised if they issue a patch as early as tomorrow. I played a few games yesterday and it didn't seem anywhere nearly as dramatic, but maybe people didn't know about the changes yet...
<!--quoteo(post=2025386:date=Nov 15 2012, 09:55 PM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 15 2012, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025386"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I seriously doubt that's the overall case in the game right now. I'm not sure about the internal stats from the entire game, but nsstats shows more towards 40/60.
If winrates are really 20% or below for marines, I wouldn't be surprised if they issue a patch as early as tomorrow. I played a few games yesterday and it didn't seem anywhere nearly as dramatic, but maybe people didn't know about the changes yet...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dev all ready stated they are reverting regen. Plus the stats will continue to decrease for marines unless a viable option is found or changes are made. The only option at this point for marines is to rush base and win way early, but I dont consider that even viable.
I'll be really honest, there seems to be a real lack of good Marine commanders for some reason. I know they're out there, because I've had match ups with some guys that were truly amazing. But the last few days I've kind of felt bad. I've tried playing as Marines a few times, even commanding, and tentatively I think the big issue is that Marines like to split up a hundred different ways and die in a fire for the first two minutes, then get scared and refuse to leave base. They also seem to be completely unaware of even the most basic tenants of Natural Selection 2 play, such as using a phase gate instead of walking across the map every time. Or checking the map to see where a res node is being destroyed. They are rambo on a mission, and stopping to build a res node is not a part of that mission.
There are other issues at work, I'm sure, but I almost wonder if most Marines players are streaming Pandora over their headset with the player audio completely disabled. The insane accuracy of the LMG actually seems to work against newer players that can't aim. Instead of maybe winging a skulk, they spray a full clip into a wall and die. I've learned that I'm a crappy Marine, so I think I've had my fill of them for a while again.
I mean, good Marines players and bad Marines players are like night and day. Sad to say, I fall into the latter category but I find myself telling people where to go even as a Marine just because I'm the only one who can read a map.
Maybe that's just it. A marine commander needs to micromanage a bad team to the <i>n</i>th degree. The aliens commander doesn't really need to micromanage his players, just give out information to people that will run with it on their own. This leads me to think that most of the 'good' players in Natural Selection simply like the Aliens because it's different, while the Marines are not terribly different in any significant way from most other FPS shooters aside from the strategy portion. The 'good' players that are attracted to Marines are there because they have wicked good aim, and know what kind of advantage they have. The worse players? Well, good luck hitting that Celerity skulk Mr. Marine.
<!--quoteo(post=2025407:date=Nov 16 2012, 01:32 AM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Nov 16 2012, 01:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025407"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll be really honest, there seems to be a real lack of good Marine commanders for some reason. I know they're out there, because I've had match ups with some guys that were truly amazing. But the last few days I've kind of felt bad. I've tried playing as Marines a few times, even commanding, and tentatively I think the big issue is that Marines like to split up a hundred different ways and die in a fire for the first two minutes, then get scared and refuse to leave base. They also seem to be completely unaware of even the most basic tenants of Natural Selection 2 play, such as using a phase gate instead of walking across the map every time. Or checking the map to see where a res node is being destroyed. They are rambo on a mission, and stopping to build a res node is not a part of that mission.
There are other issues at work, I'm sure, but I almost wonder if most Marines players are streaming Pandora over their headset with the player audio completely disabled. The insane accuracy of the LMG actually seems to work against newer players that can't aim. Instead of maybe winging a skulk, they spray a full clip into a wall and die. I've learned that I'm a crappy Marine, so I think I've had my fill of them for a while again.
I mean, good Marines players and bad Marines players are like night and day. Sad to say, I fall into the latter category but I find myself telling people where to go even as a Marine just because I'm the only one who can read a map.
Maybe that's just it. A marine commander needs to micromanage a bad team to the <i>n</i>th degree. The aliens commander doesn't really need to micromanage his players, just give out information to people that will run with it on their own. This leads me to think that most of the 'good' players in Natural Selection simply like the Aliens because it's different, while the Marines are not terribly different in any significant way from most other FPS shooters aside from the strategy portion. The 'good' players that are attracted to Marines are there because they have wicked good aim, and know what kind of advantage they have. The worse players? Well, good luck hitting that Celerity skulk Mr. Marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I honestly don't think most good players wildly prefer one team or the other. Good players are good players because they play a lot, they have a lot of time invested. If you're going to play 8 solid hours of NS, it starts to become really nice that once you get bored of machine gunning down skulks, you can go be skulk and fade for an hour or two, and vice versa. There's a very different play experience between marine and alien.
I think, if what you're saying is accurate, one of the biggest factors is that, I can play fade one game, play lerk the next, play onos the next game... There's sort of 4 fundamentally different experiences as alien, where as marine it's mostly the same thing every game.
I actually think there's more depth to the marine game though. An individual marine has more jobs than an individual skulk, or an individual fade. Skulks job is basically to either bite marines, or bite buildings. Marines have their own equivalents of those jobs as well, but they also have to secure resources, secure phase positions, secure tech points, and you have to change everything up regarding the way you do those things once fades are out, once onos are out, etc. Where as skulk, it's harder to bite marines when marines have a shotgun, but it doesn't fundamentally change the tactics and strategy you use to get that done all that much. Marine gameplay can be very fun.
All I can say in regards to the above is that I was a pretty average beta player, and I frequent the top of the scoreboard and k/d in the game. And I'm not even good...
Also, if your commander builds a robo factory in the first 5 minutes of the game without the intention to rush arcs, please don't come here to complain that aliens are OP. That's all I have to say.
<!--quoteo(post=2025170:date=Nov 15 2012, 04:56 PM:name=Bicsum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bicsum @ Nov 15 2012, 04:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025170"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My guess is that the new players are starting to figure out how to play alien.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think this is the only reason why marines have chance to win even rarely, if aliens are completely armless players then yay, win for marines, all other games are for aliens.
something like win scoreboard tells nothing about balance of the game.... this game is BROKEN, because it's so alien favored in public games, yes, i want to say again, IN PUBLIC GAMES, i don't care how well pro players own with marines, it does not matter, if UWE wants new players to stay playing this game and become hardcore fans of this game, then mayby they should focus making public games <u><b>FUN</b></u>, that's key point here, it doesn't matter wich team is more powerful with some certain overpowered tactic that requires INSANE ammount of teamplay and skills to pull off, you can't expect pub's to EVER learn that tactic, let alone follow commander orders.
only way marines to win this game is DOMINATE earlygame, wich is just stupid, if marines control 50% of the map and aliens have only 1rt, it's actually quite balanced moment in earlygame, if aliens have even 30% of the map and marines 70%, aliens are WINNING by that moment, it's just so STUPID.
and yes, you're not only one quiting this game because of this ridicilous huge issue wich no one fails to see, if UWE only knew how big issue this was, i think they would have fixed it already, well let me tell you, me and him are not only one leaving this game because of this issue, most people who leave won't bother coming in forums and cry about it, they just... leave, we cry because we care about this game.
<!--quoteo(post=2025451:date=Nov 15 2012, 11:29 PM:name=Juomari)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juomari @ Nov 15 2012, 11:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025451"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i think this is the only reason why marines have chance to win even rarely, if aliens are completely armless players then yay, win for marines, all other games are for aliens.
something like win scoreboard tells nothing about balance of the game.... this game is BROKEN, because it's so alien favored in public games, yes, i want to say again, IN PUBLIC GAMES, i don't care how well pro players own with marines, it does not matter, if UWE wants new players to stay playing this game and become hardcore fans of this game, then mayby they should focus making public games <u><b>FUN</b></u>, that's key point here, it doesn't matter wich team is more powerful with some certain overpowered tactic that requires INSANE ammount of teamplay and skills to pull off, you can't expect pub's to EVER learn that tactic, let alone follow commander orders.
only way marines to win this game is DOMINATE earlygame, wich is just stupid, if marines control 50% of the map and aliens have only 1rt, it's actually quite balanced moment in earlygame, if aliens have even 30% of the map and marines 70%, aliens are WINNING by that moment, it's just so STUPID.
and yes, you're not only one quiting this game because of this ridicilous huge issue wich no one fails to see, if UWE only knew how big issue this was, i think they would have fixed it already, well let me tell you, me and him are not only one leaving this game because of this issue, most people who leave won't bother coming in forums and cry about it, they just... leave, we cry because we care about this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just had a game, where I commanded the aliens. I wont go into details other than I literally told the team not to attack the base and let the cregs and 20 whips do the job. Game ended in less than 20 min. (could of ended faster but I was to busy ######ing around). Here are some facts for you.
Regen is incredible. I will give you in game statistic.
As a skulk I went from 10 hp for full 70 +10 armor in 4-5 seconds. This of course being out of combat. However because you can regen while in combat makes it so much easier. Especially with speed upgrade. Marines cannot heal unless next to armory, or being welded. How does that help when you are not at base? It doesnt.
I can gorge and take incredible amount of firepower from healing myself and regen, I just have to take a second of not taking damage and be at full hp again.
This upgrade alone sustained the team enough for me to whatever I wanted. In this case build 20 whips (half with upgrades).
Fact is. If equally skilled players went against each other, aliens will win at LEAST 5:1.
I am all for balancing a game for competitive play in all, but for this one? <b>Not as important</b> IMO. 98% of your consumers are non-competitive (professional players). Screw up fun for them........ Keep in mind I said not as important. It still is important none the less but should not be the absolute focus. Sorry this game is not Starcraft where most of your money comes from competitive aspect.
<!--quoteo(post=2025451:date=Nov 16 2012, 12:29 AM:name=Juomari)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juomari @ Nov 16 2012, 12:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025451"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...it doesn't matter wich team is more powerful with some certain overpowered tactic that requires INSANE ammount of teamplay and skills to pull off, you can't expect pub's to EVER learn that tactic, let alone follow commander orders.
only way marines to win this game is DOMINATE earlygame, wich is just stupid, if marines control 50% of the map and aliens have only 1rt, it's actually quite balanced moment in earlygame, if aliens have even 30% of the map and marines 70%, aliens are WINNING by that moment, it's just so STUPID.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Team play actually matters quite a lot, perhaps even more so than individual player skill although that's debatable and relies on the players in question. Saying a fast Onos strategy requires lots of team work isn't really true either, it's used precisely because it's derp proof as long as the person in the Onos isn't themselves a derp. Marines can come back mid game just like Aliens can, it just requires the Marines commander to not research Exo's so he can avoid all of his Rambo's that don't even use a microphone from losing the game for him by instantly having everyone go Dual-Exo.
The team that gets out there and kills the other teams resource nodes while protecting their own will win 9 out of 10 times, with the exception being a brilliant comeback with excellent team work.
Also, if you can't follow your commanders orders or if your team can't you will not win. That's just an obvious given in a game that has RTS elements.
Aliens are easier to just jump into and go kill stuff, whereas the Marines will need to utilize some form of 'tactics' to actually win unless they have aimbot like aim. A good Marines team set the pace for a game, if you let the aliens do it you'll eventually get crushed under the weight of compound interest.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fact is. If equally skilled players went against each other, aliens will win at LEAST 5:1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's being reverted, you can stop moaning about it already.
<!--quoteo(post=2025465:date=Nov 15 2012, 11:58 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Nov 15 2012, 11:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025465"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Team play actually matters quite a lot, perhaps even more so than individual player skill although that's debatable and relies on the players in question. Saying a fast Onos strategy requires lots of team work isn't really true either, it's used precisely because it's derp proof as long as the person in the Onos isn't themselves a derp. Marines can come back mid game just like Aliens can, it just requires the Marines commander to not research Exo's so he can avoid all of his Rambo's that don't even use a microphone from losing the game for him by instantly having everyone go Dual-Exo.
The team that gets out there and kills the other teams resource nodes while protecting their own will win 9 out of 10 times, with the exception being a brilliant comeback with excellent team work.
Also, if you can't follow your commanders orders or if your team can't you will not win. That's just an obvious given in a game that has RTS elements.
Aliens are easier to just jump into and go kill stuff, whereas the Marines will need to utilize some form of 'tactics' to actually win unless they have aimbot like aim. A good Marines team set the pace for a game, if you let the aliens do it you'll eventually get crushed under the weight of compound interest.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This a joke? Aliens can kill/harass nodes extremely more effectively than marines can, which was fine. But now they can harass and not die just do to one upgrade that you can get in the first 5 min of the game.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's being reverted, you can stop moaning about it already.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know it is, we will just see how the other buffs play out. I am just simply arguing the fact it takes far less effort to win as aliens. I am all for challenges, and fighting a uphill battle. But when the challenge becomes so overwhelming that never to you get a sense of "we could still win this if". Hope, in a desperate time gives huge amounts of power, and winning after such is even more rewarding. But whats the point if I never get even a glimmer of that.
Side edit: I will moan about it. Cause this is the problem. It wasn't a bug that caused this issue it was made this way without giving it a chance for proper testing.
I had a job as a QA tester for a few different games. I understand and know what it takes sometimes. I understand unknownworlds position with this game. That is why I may of been harder than maybe others. If you want to make it, issues (that have such extremely easy fixes) like these cannot come up. Bring attention to the problem now, create a better solution, and have the benefits. I dont know the whole story behind how they do things. This is strictly from my personal knowledge and experience.
<!--quoteo(post=2025379:date=Nov 16 2012, 01:51 AM:name=Buckfast)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Buckfast @ Nov 16 2012, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025379"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not on the servers I play. I've played around 12 matches on the last 2 days, marines won once.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now it's 16 / 1
Marines require WAY more coordination and teamplay than aliens. As alien in a pub all you have to do is run around chewing RT's until some people can go onos, get some gorges and game over.
<!--quoteo(post=2025473:date=Nov 16 2012, 01:12 AM:name=g0dAr1es)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g0dAr1es @ Nov 16 2012, 01:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025473"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This a joke? Aliens can kill/harass nodes extremely more effectively than marines can, which was fine. But now they can harass and not die just do to one upgrade that you can get in the first 5 min of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You would be very surprised at exactly how fast Marines are, if they want to be. And a Marine will kill an Alien res tower or upgrade stupid fast. You can honestly quit your forum raging now. <i>It's being reverted.</i> <b>You've won.</b> Turn down the angry a touch, and that's coming from me. A dedicated forum rager. I still find it necessary to point out that if you're actually hitting the skulk with the bullets coming out of your gun, it dies faster than a skulk with carapace. It's only if the skulk can actually get away from you where it gets silly. I can't shoot for crap in this game though, so I can feel your pain on this one. I'm sure the players with awesome aim found it much less game breaking at the end of the day.
Regeneration was never really that well thought out in the first place, to be honest. It's either massively OP, or horribly worthless. I'm not honestly sure if there's a middle ground concerning this upgrade, although we shall see with other updates. Since you obviously can't stand a skulk with regeneration that does anything, I don't know if tweaks are going to cause that throbbing vein to subside any though.
<!--quoteo(post=2025480:date=Nov 15 2012, 11:27 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Nov 15 2012, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025480"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regeneration was never really that well thought out in the first place, to be honest. It's either massively OP, or horribly worthless. I'm not honestly sure if there's a middle ground concerning this upgrade, although we shall see with other updates. Since you obviously can't stand a skulk with regeneration that does anything, I don't know if tweaks are going to cause that throbbing vein to subside any though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> there is most definitely a middle ground (this applies to pretty much everything except maybe camouflage), it's that each patch swings the numbers massively. just because the changes are drastic and never balanced doesn't mean that the ability is inherently flawed
<!--quoteo(post=2025464:date=Nov 15 2012, 11:57 PM:name=g0dAr1es)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g0dAr1es @ Nov 15 2012, 11:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025464"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As a skulk I went from 10 hp for full 70 +10 armor in 4-5 seconds. This of course being out of combat. However because you can regen while in combat makes it so much easier. Especially with speed upgrade. Marines cannot heal unless next to armory, or being welded. How does that help when you are not at base? It doesnt.
I can gorge and take incredible amount of firepower from healing myself and regen, I just have to take a second of not taking damage and be at full hp again.
This upgrade alone sustained the team enough for me to whatever I wanted. In this case build 20 whips (half with upgrades).
Fact is. If equally skilled players went against each other, aliens will win at LEAST 5:1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know that regen worked like that before the patch (back to 100% after 4-5 seconds after regen starts), and every time I chose it almost everyone would moan about why I didn't choose carapace instead?
Now with a change from 4 seconds delay to regen to 1.5 seconds delay to regen it's OP. Uh, okay.
IDK about 5:1. I'd love to see some stats posted from UWE. I wish they'd make them public.
Comments
Any buffs to movement and the fade??? Changes to Tres model for Onos??? There have to be! These changes are of utmost importance!
Yes, lets put regeneration back to where it was. You know, when no one used it at all because Carapace was simply <i>so much better</i>.
Yes, lets leave the Armory in the game as-is. You know, the one that you can build walls that heal both health and armor?
Not that Carapace isn't still far better for most higher life forms, mind you. At least Fades and Lerks have an alternative now, while Gorges and Onos are still mini-tanks with Carapace.
Because Marines should be able to down an Onos while it's standing on three heal stations. You know, the same Onos that has zero ranged attacks.
After all, it isn't like the aliens need to spend 3 T.Res per crag every 8 seconds. <i>That would be broken.</i>
(Just came across Flayra saying it's going to be reverted. Oh well, back to regen being left out until end-game by this commander.)
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124595" target="_blank">Link Here.</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never said that they didnt need to change things. I said said that the changes made where to extreme. They went from one extreme to another. And even if they revert only regen. Doesnt mean that aliens are now totally nerfed, the other buffs still are in effect.
I don't mean to raise another issue, but I think that right there is part of the problem. Some people <b>have </b>gotten better. And us, who don't have time to spend "getting better" are stuck getting plowed by people who already have (gotten better).
I guess the only thing I can suggest is either matchmaking, or (a probably much simpler solution, definitely not the best, but it's all I got right now) maybe have something like a "pro" or "veteran" tag, similar to the rookie tag, so inexperience players know to just quit immediately upon seeing something like that, instead of joining a game just get kicked around like a ragdoll, which does not make for a fun game, nor a repeat player.
I guess the only thing I can suggest is either matchmaking, or (a probably much simpler solution, definitely not the best, but it's all I got right now) maybe have something like a "pro" or "veteran" tag, similar to the rookie tag, so inexperience players know to just quit immediately upon seeing something like that, instead of joining a game just get kicked around like a ragdoll, which does not make for a fun game, nor a repeat player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And its not about "get better". I find myself excelling at both races. I do not favor playing one side or the other, just whatever style I am in the mood for. Now aliens are so much easier to play than marines, by such a large amount that it is unfun to play either.
So this "get better" is a poor excuse to make an excuses for something that you know is wrong.
Since 229 I haven`t seen a single Marine Win in ~20 games. Lategame, even with all upgrades Marines just get overrun :/
So this "get better" is a poor excuse to make an excuses for something that you know is wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know, I don't think that it's <i>that</i> OP until mid-game when Fades start to appear. I fully acknowledge that it's possible it's been tweaked too far in the opposite direction, but it didn't seem vastly different than 228 to me as a commander. I know I actually researched it for once, just to give people the chance to mess with it. Not sure how many went with it, but I know that as a skulk people were still dying left and right. Fades seemed to be holding their own perhaps a bit better than usual. Couldn't say how much of that was regen, or how much of that was just skilled fade work.
I can tell you that the Aliens players seemed to be a higher caliber today. I had very few derps on the aliens team, and I didn't have even a single game where someone didn't pay attention to orders. That, more than anything else, is what struck me about todays matches.
I can tell you that the Aliens players seemed to be a higher caliber today. I had very few derps on the aliens team, and I didn't have even a single game where someone didn't pay attention to orders. That, more than anything else, is what struck me about todays matches.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am not just talking about regen. Yes I see it being a bit over the top (it did need a buff however) if you add that to all the other buffs it becomes to much. But for comparison for my own account. I usually get 1:1 2:1 as skulk, sometimes more. Now with regen I have gotten closer to 8:1. Go in bite once or twice, back out, wait for 2 seconds to regen and go back in, repeat.
<!--quoteo(post=2025271:date=Nov 16 2012, 12:54 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Nov 16 2012, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, lets leave the Armory in the game as-is. You know, the one that you can build walls that heal both health and armor?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is this really a big problem? Usually if I'm gorge I just keep bile bomb up on structures and they go down really fast. They can probably weld through bile bomb, but they can't weld through a bile bomb and an onos etc. They're quite strong but the alien counter costs half the cost of the wall itself :\
Is this really a big problem? Usually if I'm gorge I just keep bile bomb up on structures and they go down really fast. They can probably weld through bile bomb, but they can't weld through a bile bomb and an onos etc. They're quite strong but the alien counter costs half the cost of the wall itself :\<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was a bit of hyperbole, but one could also say GL spam would be an effective counter to crags. It was, but couldn't really say since at no point today did the Marines get GL's to clear out my structures beyond maybe one guy that got separated from the rest of his little squad. I can say the whips seem to be a lot more effective at not killing themselves with crappy rebounds though.
Yeah there isn't much you can do about a bad team. :( Such is life I guess.
There are definite imbalances but I'm not sure if any of the recent changes are a <b>big</b> problem for balance. The 2 hive tres onos is still the strongest, safest build and until then basically the whole alien side is 'overpowered' because it comes in addition to something that is already too powerful. Thankfully, UWE have seen that there is a problem, and it is good to see Flayra post about it, I just hope it gets fixed before people stop playing. Once it is fixed things will probably be more clear.
At least there are still enough bad pub alien teams out there to let the marines win sometimes, and no one is locked in to playing a certain side.
We have roflcopters on the horizon.
It may be a <b>little</b> easier to play aliens right now, with crags which actually work, very active passive/active regen, and 100% camouflage, but marines seem to be winning quite a lot of games too. The above statement is literally ridiculous for obvious reasons.
Not on the servers I play. I've played around 12 matches on the last 2 days, marines won once.
If winrates are really 20% or below for marines, I wouldn't be surprised if they issue a patch as early as tomorrow. I played a few games yesterday and it didn't seem anywhere nearly as dramatic, but maybe people didn't know about the changes yet...
If winrates are really 20% or below for marines, I wouldn't be surprised if they issue a patch as early as tomorrow. I played a few games yesterday and it didn't seem anywhere nearly as dramatic, but maybe people didn't know about the changes yet...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dev all ready stated they are reverting regen. Plus the stats will continue to decrease for marines unless a viable option is found or changes are made. The only option at this point for marines is to rush base and win way early, but I dont consider that even viable.
There are other issues at work, I'm sure, but I almost wonder if most Marines players are streaming Pandora over their headset with the player audio completely disabled. The insane accuracy of the LMG actually seems to work against newer players that can't aim. Instead of maybe winging a skulk, they spray a full clip into a wall and die. I've learned that I'm a crappy Marine, so I think I've had my fill of them for a while again.
I mean, good Marines players and bad Marines players are like night and day. Sad to say, I fall into the latter category but I find myself telling people where to go even as a Marine just because I'm the only one who can read a map.
Maybe that's just it. A marine commander needs to micromanage a bad team to the <i>n</i>th degree. The aliens commander doesn't really need to micromanage his players, just give out information to people that will run with it on their own. This leads me to think that most of the 'good' players in Natural Selection simply like the Aliens because it's different, while the Marines are not terribly different in any significant way from most other FPS shooters aside from the strategy portion. The 'good' players that are attracted to Marines are there because they have wicked good aim, and know what kind of advantage they have. The worse players? Well, good luck hitting that Celerity skulk Mr. Marine.
There are other issues at work, I'm sure, but I almost wonder if most Marines players are streaming Pandora over their headset with the player audio completely disabled. The insane accuracy of the LMG actually seems to work against newer players that can't aim. Instead of maybe winging a skulk, they spray a full clip into a wall and die. I've learned that I'm a crappy Marine, so I think I've had my fill of them for a while again.
I mean, good Marines players and bad Marines players are like night and day. Sad to say, I fall into the latter category but I find myself telling people where to go even as a Marine just because I'm the only one who can read a map.
Maybe that's just it. A marine commander needs to micromanage a bad team to the <i>n</i>th degree. The aliens commander doesn't really need to micromanage his players, just give out information to people that will run with it on their own. This leads me to think that most of the 'good' players in Natural Selection simply like the Aliens because it's different, while the Marines are not terribly different in any significant way from most other FPS shooters aside from the strategy portion. The 'good' players that are attracted to Marines are there because they have wicked good aim, and know what kind of advantage they have. The worse players? Well, good luck hitting that Celerity skulk Mr. Marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I honestly don't think most good players wildly prefer one team or the other. Good players are good players because they play a lot, they have a lot of time invested. If you're going to play 8 solid hours of NS, it starts to become really nice that once you get bored of machine gunning down skulks, you can go be skulk and fade for an hour or two, and vice versa. There's a very different play experience between marine and alien.
I think, if what you're saying is accurate, one of the biggest factors is that, I can play fade one game, play lerk the next, play onos the next game... There's sort of 4 fundamentally different experiences as alien, where as marine it's mostly the same thing every game.
I actually think there's more depth to the marine game though. An individual marine has more jobs than an individual skulk, or an individual fade. Skulks job is basically to either bite marines, or bite buildings. Marines have their own equivalents of those jobs as well, but they also have to secure resources, secure phase positions, secure tech points, and you have to change everything up regarding the way you do those things once fades are out, once onos are out, etc. Where as skulk, it's harder to bite marines when marines have a shotgun, but it doesn't fundamentally change the tactics and strategy you use to get that done all that much. Marine gameplay can be very fun.
Also, if your commander builds a robo factory in the first 5 minutes of the game without the intention to rush arcs, please don't come here to complain that aliens are OP. That's all I have to say.
i think this is the only reason why marines have chance to win even rarely, if aliens are completely armless players then yay, win for marines, all other games are for aliens.
something like win scoreboard tells nothing about balance of the game.... this game is BROKEN, because it's so alien favored in public games, yes, i want to say again, IN PUBLIC GAMES, i don't care how well pro players own with marines, it does not matter, if UWE wants new players to stay playing this game and become hardcore fans of this game, then mayby they should focus making public games <u><b>FUN</b></u>, that's key point here, it doesn't matter wich team is more powerful with some certain overpowered tactic that requires INSANE ammount of teamplay and skills to pull off, you can't expect pub's to EVER learn that tactic, let alone follow commander orders.
only way marines to win this game is DOMINATE earlygame, wich is just stupid, if marines control 50% of the map and aliens have only 1rt, it's actually quite balanced moment in earlygame, if aliens have even 30% of the map and marines 70%, aliens are WINNING by that moment, it's just so STUPID.
and yes, you're not only one quiting this game because of this ridicilous huge issue wich no one fails to see, if UWE only knew how big issue this was, i think they would have fixed it already, well let me tell you, me and him are not only one leaving this game because of this issue, most people who leave won't bother coming in forums and cry about it, they just... leave, we cry because we care about this game.
Great game. Ill be playing on and off and checking the forums and NS2 Stats until things get ironed out.
something like win scoreboard tells nothing about balance of the game.... this game is BROKEN, because it's so alien favored in public games, yes, i want to say again, IN PUBLIC GAMES, i don't care how well pro players own with marines, it does not matter, if UWE wants new players to stay playing this game and become hardcore fans of this game, then mayby they should focus making public games <u><b>FUN</b></u>, that's key point here, it doesn't matter wich team is more powerful with some certain overpowered tactic that requires INSANE ammount of teamplay and skills to pull off, you can't expect pub's to EVER learn that tactic, let alone follow commander orders.
only way marines to win this game is DOMINATE earlygame, wich is just stupid, if marines control 50% of the map and aliens have only 1rt, it's actually quite balanced moment in earlygame, if aliens have even 30% of the map and marines 70%, aliens are WINNING by that moment, it's just so STUPID.
and yes, you're not only one quiting this game because of this ridicilous huge issue wich no one fails to see, if UWE only knew how big issue this was, i think they would have fixed it already, well let me tell you, me and him are not only one leaving this game because of this issue, most people who leave won't bother coming in forums and cry about it, they just... leave, we cry because we care about this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just had a game, where I commanded the aliens. I wont go into details other than I literally told the team not to attack the base and let the cregs and 20 whips do the job. Game ended in less than 20 min. (could of ended faster but I was to busy ######ing around). Here are some facts for you.
Regen is incredible. I will give you in game statistic.
As a skulk I went from 10 hp for full 70 +10 armor in 4-5 seconds. This of course being out of combat. However because you can regen while in combat makes it so much easier. Especially with speed upgrade. Marines cannot heal unless next to armory, or being welded. How does that help when you are not at base? It doesnt.
I can gorge and take incredible amount of firepower from healing myself and regen, I just have to take a second of not taking damage and be at full hp again.
This upgrade alone sustained the team enough for me to whatever I wanted. In this case build 20 whips (half with upgrades).
Fact is. If equally skilled players went against each other, aliens will win at LEAST 5:1.
I am all for balancing a game for competitive play in all, but for this one? <b>Not as important</b> IMO. 98% of your consumers are non-competitive (professional players). Screw up fun for them........ Keep in mind I said not as important. It still is important none the less but should not be the absolute focus. Sorry this game is not Starcraft where most of your money comes from competitive aspect.
only way marines to win this game is DOMINATE earlygame, wich is just stupid, if marines control 50% of the map and aliens have only 1rt, it's actually quite balanced moment in earlygame, if aliens have even 30% of the map and marines 70%, aliens are WINNING by that moment, it's just so STUPID.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Team play actually matters quite a lot, perhaps even more so than individual player skill although that's debatable and relies on the players in question. Saying a fast Onos strategy requires lots of team work isn't really true either, it's used precisely because it's derp proof as long as the person in the Onos isn't themselves a derp. Marines can come back mid game just like Aliens can, it just requires the Marines commander to not research Exo's so he can avoid all of his Rambo's that don't even use a microphone from losing the game for him by instantly having everyone go Dual-Exo.
The team that gets out there and kills the other teams resource nodes while protecting their own will win 9 out of 10 times, with the exception being a brilliant comeback with excellent team work.
Also, if you can't follow your commanders orders or if your team can't you will not win. That's just an obvious given in a game that has RTS elements.
Aliens are easier to just jump into and go kill stuff, whereas the Marines will need to utilize some form of 'tactics' to actually win unless they have aimbot like aim. A good Marines team set the pace for a game, if you let the aliens do it you'll eventually get crushed under the weight of compound interest.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fact is. If equally skilled players went against each other, aliens will win at LEAST 5:1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's being reverted, you can stop moaning about it already.
The team that gets out there and kills the other teams resource nodes while protecting their own will win 9 out of 10 times, with the exception being a brilliant comeback with excellent team work.
Also, if you can't follow your commanders orders or if your team can't you will not win. That's just an obvious given in a game that has RTS elements.
Aliens are easier to just jump into and go kill stuff, whereas the Marines will need to utilize some form of 'tactics' to actually win unless they have aimbot like aim. A good Marines team set the pace for a game, if you let the aliens do it you'll eventually get crushed under the weight of compound interest.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This a joke? Aliens can kill/harass nodes extremely more effectively than marines can, which was fine. But now they can harass and not die just do to one upgrade that you can get in the first 5 min of the game.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's being reverted, you can stop moaning about it already.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know it is, we will just see how the other buffs play out. I am just simply arguing the fact it takes far less effort to win as aliens. I am all for challenges, and fighting a uphill battle. But when the challenge becomes so overwhelming that never to you get a sense of "we could still win this if". Hope, in a desperate time gives huge amounts of power, and winning after such is even more rewarding. But whats the point if I never get even a glimmer of that.
Side edit: I will moan about it. Cause this is the problem. It wasn't a bug that caused this issue it was made this way without giving it a chance for proper testing.
I had a job as a QA tester for a few different games. I understand and know what it takes sometimes. I understand unknownworlds position with this game. That is why I may of been harder than maybe others. If you want to make it, issues (that have such extremely easy fixes) like these cannot come up. Bring attention to the problem now, create a better solution, and have the benefits. I dont know the whole story behind how they do things. This is strictly from my personal knowledge and experience.
Now it's 16 / 1
Marines require WAY more coordination and teamplay than aliens. As alien in a pub all you have to do is run around chewing RT's until some people can go onos, get some gorges and game over.
You would be very surprised at exactly how fast Marines are, if they want to be. And a Marine will kill an Alien res tower or upgrade stupid fast. You can honestly quit your forum raging now. <i>It's being reverted.</i> <b>You've won.</b> Turn down the angry a touch, and that's coming from me. A dedicated forum rager. I still find it necessary to point out that if you're actually hitting the skulk with the bullets coming out of your gun, it dies faster than a skulk with carapace. It's only if the skulk can actually get away from you where it gets silly. I can't shoot for crap in this game though, so I can feel your pain on this one. I'm sure the players with awesome aim found it much less game breaking at the end of the day.
Regeneration was never really that well thought out in the first place, to be honest. It's either massively OP, or horribly worthless. I'm not honestly sure if there's a middle ground concerning this upgrade, although we shall see with other updates. Since you obviously can't stand a skulk with regeneration that does anything, I don't know if tweaks are going to cause that throbbing vein to subside any though.
there is most definitely a middle ground (this applies to pretty much everything except maybe camouflage), it's that each patch swings the numbers massively. just because the changes are drastic and never balanced doesn't mean that the ability is inherently flawed
I can gorge and take incredible amount of firepower from healing myself and regen, I just have to take a second of not taking damage and be at full hp again.
This upgrade alone sustained the team enough for me to whatever I wanted. In this case build 20 whips (half with upgrades).
Fact is. If equally skilled players went against each other, aliens will win at LEAST 5:1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know that regen worked like that before the patch (back to 100% after 4-5 seconds after regen starts), and every time I chose it almost everyone would moan about why I didn't choose carapace instead?
Now with a change from 4 seconds delay to regen to 1.5 seconds delay to regen it's OP. Uh, okay.
IDK about 5:1. I'd love to see some stats posted from UWE. I wish they'd make them public.
everyone runs around map, not listening orders.
anything you do or try to order them to do they argue back that it's a bad idea (i.e jetpacks > exo's)
they get upset very easily, and then blames you. ( ie, if you're losing a game )
they get scared of aliens and wants to turtle in base and start to cry turrets.
mayby this is why no good commander wants to go command =D