There is a Need for Differentiation in Gameplay
Mortaegus
Join Date: 2012-11-13 Member: 170614Members
Join Date: 2012-11-13 Member: 170614Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A serious discussion of the structure of NS2 gameplay options</div>First, I want to thank the developers for putting together a great game, and the NS1 community for supporting them and making it possible for all of us to enjoy this fantastic experience.
Second, I want to tear apart the whole thing - ranting and raving for a few paragraphs.
Onwards to the rant, then. The game lacks options and variety. It centers around the concept of expanding territory control, defending threatened territory and attacking vulnerable territory, and defeating the enemy. In this it is very dynamic, with pushes and counter-pushes that often reverse the fortunes of the teams and players. For the most part this is handled well, and from a strategic sense of the commander this functions to provide a unique and enjoyable experience.
But for the players it quickly becomes repetitive. This is more especially true for the marines, than for the aliens. Perhaps this is because there are so many shooters out there, and so many different games and varieties of experiences to choose from, but I feel that there is a serious lack of any specialization on the marine side of things. They need roles. Team fortress, for example, does this exceedingly well. It forces players to work together as squads, and to help each other to achieve victory. This grouping function is also present in NS2, although its presence here is more of a response to the external threat of the enemy team than anything else.
What I think would promote cooperative gameplay would be the ability to better define roles. With marines, for example, if a starting marine could choose between three weapons; a sub-machine gun, the standard assault rifle, and a belt-fed chaingun, the options dramatically increase. For balance, a sub-machine gun should deal less damage per bullet and have far less ammo, while expending its entire clip much more quickly: increasing DPS but decreasing total time to deal damage, and adding in a more frequent need to reload. Perhaps to balance it the SMG would carry a different number of clips.
The chaingun would have a far more massive clip size, but fire slower as well, perhaps two to three bullets per second. These would deal more damage, to balance it slightly against the higher damage per second dealt by the default rifle, but the purpose of this gun is not to deal damage but to act as a suppression tool and for area control. The reload time could be much longer, requiring a full ten to fifteen seconds to better balance the gun. For obvious reasons, any chaingun in a first person shooter must be carefully modeled after the Doom chaingun.
Even more customization could be added. The role of a medic should be something that a player can fill. Instead of a secondary weapon, the medic carries a medpack, and has an energy pool with which to heal allies. This is a very, very powerful tool, and balance would require that the medic be less functional as a damage dealer. Perhaps instead of a primary weapon, the medic could dual wield pistols.
As an additional upgrade, later in the game, marines should be able to purchase a knife, and dual wield a knife and tomahawk, should they so choose. Their melee damage should be buffed in accordance to how awesome that would be. Another idea that passed muster was for marines to be able to wield a shield, like a riot shield, and for it to either negate damage when held facing an attack or add bonus armor and as a special upon activation to shock a melee attacker, stunning them for half a second and dealing light damage. This would necessitate the major balance changes to the marine's primary weapon while wielding a shield. Perhaps the marine could only use a light weapon, or must drop the shield to fire at all.
Marines should also be able to buy night vision or heat spectrum goggles, replacing the flashlight for that player. Further, a forward facing motion tracker with active pings. A sonic beacon structure should be able, when in a room with power, to actively hamper alien vision (which is echo-location if I recall). If an alien attacks a powered room with such a structure and with alien vision on, their vision should daze and glare painfully before their vision automatically reverts.
I have exhausted all of my ideas for the marines. The basic premise that I am pushing for here is that players need MORE OPTIONS in all areas of gameplay and that, besides the limited number of maps, is the largest flaw in this otherwise beautiful game. I regret that I have almost no ideas for aliens. That area needs examined just as fully.
Edit: Some minor alien ideas. A new evolution that unlocks an additional attack. Skulks, Gorges, and Lurks could get a wasp like homing missile that quickly tracks a target and detonates on it. The missile would be targetable and able to be shot down. Fades could get some modified bile rockets, launching an area of effect, medium damage attack with a recharge timer and a high energy cost. Onos could get a bio-plasma discharge, firing a bolt of plasma in a line forward of them, which deals massive damage.
Second, I want to tear apart the whole thing - ranting and raving for a few paragraphs.
Onwards to the rant, then. The game lacks options and variety. It centers around the concept of expanding territory control, defending threatened territory and attacking vulnerable territory, and defeating the enemy. In this it is very dynamic, with pushes and counter-pushes that often reverse the fortunes of the teams and players. For the most part this is handled well, and from a strategic sense of the commander this functions to provide a unique and enjoyable experience.
But for the players it quickly becomes repetitive. This is more especially true for the marines, than for the aliens. Perhaps this is because there are so many shooters out there, and so many different games and varieties of experiences to choose from, but I feel that there is a serious lack of any specialization on the marine side of things. They need roles. Team fortress, for example, does this exceedingly well. It forces players to work together as squads, and to help each other to achieve victory. This grouping function is also present in NS2, although its presence here is more of a response to the external threat of the enemy team than anything else.
What I think would promote cooperative gameplay would be the ability to better define roles. With marines, for example, if a starting marine could choose between three weapons; a sub-machine gun, the standard assault rifle, and a belt-fed chaingun, the options dramatically increase. For balance, a sub-machine gun should deal less damage per bullet and have far less ammo, while expending its entire clip much more quickly: increasing DPS but decreasing total time to deal damage, and adding in a more frequent need to reload. Perhaps to balance it the SMG would carry a different number of clips.
The chaingun would have a far more massive clip size, but fire slower as well, perhaps two to three bullets per second. These would deal more damage, to balance it slightly against the higher damage per second dealt by the default rifle, but the purpose of this gun is not to deal damage but to act as a suppression tool and for area control. The reload time could be much longer, requiring a full ten to fifteen seconds to better balance the gun. For obvious reasons, any chaingun in a first person shooter must be carefully modeled after the Doom chaingun.
Even more customization could be added. The role of a medic should be something that a player can fill. Instead of a secondary weapon, the medic carries a medpack, and has an energy pool with which to heal allies. This is a very, very powerful tool, and balance would require that the medic be less functional as a damage dealer. Perhaps instead of a primary weapon, the medic could dual wield pistols.
As an additional upgrade, later in the game, marines should be able to purchase a knife, and dual wield a knife and tomahawk, should they so choose. Their melee damage should be buffed in accordance to how awesome that would be. Another idea that passed muster was for marines to be able to wield a shield, like a riot shield, and for it to either negate damage when held facing an attack or add bonus armor and as a special upon activation to shock a melee attacker, stunning them for half a second and dealing light damage. This would necessitate the major balance changes to the marine's primary weapon while wielding a shield. Perhaps the marine could only use a light weapon, or must drop the shield to fire at all.
Marines should also be able to buy night vision or heat spectrum goggles, replacing the flashlight for that player. Further, a forward facing motion tracker with active pings. A sonic beacon structure should be able, when in a room with power, to actively hamper alien vision (which is echo-location if I recall). If an alien attacks a powered room with such a structure and with alien vision on, their vision should daze and glare painfully before their vision automatically reverts.
I have exhausted all of my ideas for the marines. The basic premise that I am pushing for here is that players need MORE OPTIONS in all areas of gameplay and that, besides the limited number of maps, is the largest flaw in this otherwise beautiful game. I regret that I have almost no ideas for aliens. That area needs examined just as fully.
Edit: Some minor alien ideas. A new evolution that unlocks an additional attack. Skulks, Gorges, and Lurks could get a wasp like homing missile that quickly tracks a target and detonates on it. The missile would be targetable and able to be shot down. Fades could get some modified bile rockets, launching an area of effect, medium damage attack with a recharge timer and a high energy cost. Onos could get a bio-plasma discharge, firing a bolt of plasma in a line forward of them, which deals massive damage.
Comments
I think marine game-play is generally in a good place. Of course it could use improvement, like all aspects of the game, but I'm not sure these ideas fit with the theme and feel of NS2.
Good job on showing exactly where your preference lies. Specifically, playing a weird mix of Chivalry 2 and TF2 with a splash of Battlefield.
I would prefer to see none of these changes, ever.
(As a side note, I suggest putting in a lot more time in NS2 before saying there are no well-defined roles for the Marines. They are there, it's just not decided by an arbitrary class system. That's how the Aliens team works, but not the Marines. Maybe you're just playing the wrong team for your preferences.)
Want to be anti-structure and AoE? Get a grenade launcher. You now need other marines to defend you.
Want to repair stuff? Buy a welder.
Only complaint I have about marines is overlapping of roles with stuff from robotics factory. MACs do what players do, ARCs are basically players with grenade launchers that fire through walls. It devalues marines who choose to play these roles.
<!--quoteo(post=2022586:date=Nov 13 2012, 04:43 PM:name=Mortaegus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mortaegus @ Nov 13 2012, 04:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2022586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First, I want to thank the developers for putting together a great game, and the NS1 community for supporting them and making it possible for all of us to enjoy this fantastic experience.
Second, I want to tear apart the whole thing - ranting and raving for a few paragraphs.
Onwards to the rant, then. The game lacks options and variety. It centers around the concept of expanding territory control, defending threatened territory and attacking vulnerable territory, and defeating the enemy. In this it is very dynamic, with pushes and counter-pushes that often reverse the fortunes of the teams and players. For the most part this is handled well, and from a strategic sense of the commander this functions to provide a unique and enjoyable experience.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is because this is, in fact, a strategy game before it is a shooter.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But for the players it quickly becomes repetitive. This is more especially true for the marines, than for the aliens. Perhaps this is because there are so many shooters out there, and so many different games and varieties of experiences to choose from, but I feel that there is a serious lack of any specialization on the marine side of things. They need roles. Team fortress, for example, does this exceedingly well. It forces players to work together as squads, and to help each other to achieve victory. This grouping function is also present in NS2, although its presence here is more of a response to the external threat of the enemy team than anything else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You negated your own statement in this paragraph. You want more team play, but then turn around and say it already has great team play. You claim NS2 has repetitive play, then compared it to a game that has some of the most repetitive play in existence that has very little in common with NS2, if anything.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What I think would promote cooperative gameplay would be the ability to better define roles. With marines, for example, if a starting marine could choose between three weapons; a sub-machine gun, the standard assault rifle, and a belt-fed chaingun, the options dramatically increase. For balance, a sub-machine gun should deal less damage per bullet and have far less ammo, while expending its entire clip much more quickly: increasing DPS but decreasing total time to deal damage, and adding in a more frequent need to reload. Perhaps to balance it the SMG would carry a different number of clips.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A marine, upon spawning, is able to buy all of the things you have just listed as long as their commander has done the proper research. The LMG fits the bill of both a sub-machinegun and an assault-rifle, while the Exo is equiped with <i>two</i> infinite ammo chainguns. In addition, you can buy a shotgun, mines, a welder for team support, a flamethrower for anti-strucutre, and a grenade launcher for heavy-infantry support. What you want is to do away with the resource management function of the game, which is inherently what makes NS2 different from the games you compare it to.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The chaingun would have a far more massive clip size, but fire slower as well, perhaps two to three bullets per second. These would deal more damage, to balance it slightly against the higher damage per second dealt by the default rifle, but the purpose of this gun is not to deal damage but to act as a suppression tool and for area control. The reload time could be much longer, requiring a full ten to fifteen seconds to better balance the gun. For obvious reasons, any chaingun in a first person shooter must be carefully modeled after the Doom chaingun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, it's already in the game only it's better than what you're suggesting. I get the impression that you haven't actually played NS2 at all, especially from this paragraph.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even more customization could be added. The role of a medic should be something that a player can fill. Instead of a secondary weapon, the medic carries a medpack, and has an energy pool with which to heal allies. This is a very, very powerful tool, and balance would require that the medic be less functional as a damage dealer. Perhaps instead of a primary weapon, the medic could dual wield pistols.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A player can be a 'medic', of sorts, when using a 5 P.Res welder with the Commanders ability to drop med packs <i>anywhere on the map</i>. Again, have you actually played the game? The only downside to a welder? Exactly what you propose, less damage to most structures.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As an additional upgrade, later in the game, marines should be able to purchase a knife, and dual wield a knife and tomahawk, should they so choose. Their melee damage should be buffed in accordance to how awesome that would be. Another idea that passed muster was for marines to be able to wield a shield, like a riot shield, and for it to either negate damage when held facing an attack or add bonus armor and as a special upon activation to shock a melee attacker, stunning them for half a second and dealing light damage. This would necessitate the major balance changes to the marine's primary weapon while wielding a shield. Perhaps the marine could only use a light weapon, or must drop the shield to fire at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Later in the game, or really at any point in the game, having a marine use a melee weapon is quite simply stupid in every possible way. I'd love a Marine to try to use a tomahawk against an Onos, which is a hybrid between a Rhino, an Elephant, and a brick wall. I really would. As to the shields? Yeah, like Marines really need even <i>more</i> armor to negate the lowest life form available to the Aliens.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marines should also be able to buy night vision or heat spectrum goggles, replacing the flashlight for that player. Further, a forward facing motion tracker with active pings. A sonic beacon structure should be able, when in a room with power, to actively hamper alien vision (which is echo-location if I recall). If an alien attacks a powered room with such a structure and with alien vision on, their vision should daze and glare painfully before their vision automatically reverts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, already in the game. It's called 'Scan' and is available to your commander to use for your benefit. Night vision would unfairly punish the Aliens team, as the lighting is specifically tailored to give the aliens a chance when it's dark. They get nightvision, Marines get a crappy flashlight. It's like that for a reason.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have exhausted all of my ideas for the marines. The basic premise that I am pushing for here is that players need MORE OPTIONS in all areas of gameplay and that, besides the limited number of maps, is the largest flaw in this otherwise beautiful game. I regret that I have almost no ideas for aliens. That area needs examined just as fully.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Considering that literally all of your suggestions are something that are already available to the Aliens, perhaps Aliens simply need more guns and powersuits for you to enjoy Natural Selection 2.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Edit: Some minor alien ideas. A new evolution that unlocks an additional attack. Skulks, Gorges, and Lurks could get a wasp like homing missile that quickly tracks a target and detonates on it. The missile would be targetable and able to be shot down. Fades could get some modified bile rockets, launching an area of effect, medium damage attack with a recharge timer and a high energy cost. Onos could get a bio-plasma discharge, firing a bolt of plasma in a line forward of them, which deals massive damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You quite literally are trolling aren't you? I mean, this is verbatim what the Aliens team already does.
I'm not trying to be mean, I'm trying to encourage you to play the game because all the things you want are already there. You just don't understand even the most fundamental things about NS2 or what is in the game. So please, play the game <i>then</i> talk about what you think about it.
Call of Duty puts in these weapons to achieve a sort of realism that players look for (a very different realism, but hey it looks cool). The problem with putting in different weapons like an SMG is that players are regularly responding to the same threat- Aliens. Think about it in a different military shooter- Need to go close up? Get a shotgun. Far engagements use sniper rifles. In this game however, the only gun you'd realistically want is a shotgun, because they're always in your face. That's just how skulk movement works.
What NS2 needs is out of UWE's budget. More alien classes, many different weapons that are only slightly different while retaining balance to alien gameplay, the whole COD million dollar budget. Sure, NS2 would benefit from these.... but NS2 has a budget, and respectively, what they've got, they've done pretty well with- Making a game with 7 peeps is hard work.
you already have grenade launcher, jetpack, shotgun, flamethrower etc...
medic would be terrible in every sense, story-wise your burly squad of marines turns into a train of wimpy fairies 'ahh medic help me i need to run away until i find a medic!'... from a gameplay/balance perspective it would also suck by adding an essential class which has to hold someone else's hand the entire time. not to mention you already have the commander being the 'medic', so wtf do you want to take up another slot on the team for another medic?
imo one of the great things about ns2 is you can be effective on your own... because the map is so big that if you roam around you will find enough cysts/RTs/solo enemies to kill and keep you going. eventually you'll be overwhelmed, but if they commit 2 of their players to finding you then you have given your team the advantage elsewhere.
it's brilliant and it's the total opposite of annoying TF2 where almost everyone wants to walk around in a big deathball of noobs so you can't actually show any individual skill, unless you're a sniper (720 hours pub sniper here).
stopped reading there
Neither an SMG nor a chaingun would need to be more powerful than the default rifle. Merely different. If it plays differently, it creates an entirely new experience for players. That's enough to promote more varied gameplay. To those knocking the team fortress reference, it is there for a reason: to equate the team interaction between the two games. I don't suggest predefined classes that trap a player in a particular role, merely an expansion of the existing system of equipment defining enhancements. Options. More options create more varied gameplay.
Certain abilities or specializations would promote better team coordination, beyond merely covering someone while they build, or fire grenades around the corner. More than merely standing back with a welder to repair an exosuit. That is the literal extent of the current squad level gameplay. The commander level, with the strategic view and objectives, can deal with coordinated attacks and higher level objectives, but that doesn't touch the players, except in the broadest sense of winning or losing the game.
I am merely pointing out that there is an entire area of the game that is underdeveloped. The squad level player interaction. It is still fully possible to form a small group of two or three individuals and work together exceedingly well. And that requires player initiative and that is good. But there is so much more potential! And this holds equally true for the aliens as the marines, though I am at a loss as to what can be suggested to improve their situation overall.
As for the people saying I have not played enough of the game. I have currently clocked over 65 hours in the game. I have played both marine and alien, without preference. Though I have landed alien more often than marine simply because it is the open team when I join a server. Before natural selection I played SCBW and SC2 on the strategy end, and Unreal and CS on the shooter end. I am not making these suggestions because I seriously believe them to be the best solutions. They are too simplistic. But they serve the purpose of pointing out what is lacking.
They are suggestions that give ideas to what could possibly make this a better game. If you feel offended that I have pointed this out, feel free to be offended. In life, people will often tell you things you don't want to hear. Vegetables are good for you, eat your peas. Hard work isn't always rewarded, except with more work. George Carlin is dead.
It is called life, deal with it. Have respect for others and they will respect you in turn.
I find it doubtful you've played 65 hours and have yet to see an Exo or recieved a medpack or a weld from a team-mate.
The 'suggestions' to change things just switches around the elements already present into a configuration that looks more like TF2.
Neither an SMG nor a chaingun would need to be more powerful than the default rifle. Merely different. If it plays differently, it creates an entirely new experience for players. That's enough to promote more varied gameplay. To those knocking the team fortress reference, it is there for a reason: to equate the team interaction between the two games. I don't suggest predefined classes that trap a player in a particular role, merely an expansion of the existing system of equipment defining enhancements. Options. More options create more varied gameplay.
Certain abilities or specializations would promote better team coordination, beyond merely covering someone while they build, or fire grenades around the corner. More than merely standing back with a welder to repair an exosuit. That is the literal extent of the current squad level gameplay. The commander level, with the strategic view and objectives, can deal with coordinated attacks and higher level objectives, but that doesn't touch the players, except in the broadest sense of winning or losing the game.
I am merely pointing out that there is an entire area of the game that is underdeveloped. The squad level player interaction. It is still fully possible to form a small group of two or three individuals and work together exceedingly well. And that requires player initiative and that is good. But there is so much more potential! And this holds equally true for the aliens as the marines, though I am at a loss as to what can be suggested to improve their situation overall.
As for the people saying I have not played enough of the game. I have currently clocked over 65 hours in the game. I have played both marine and alien, without preference. Though I have landed alien more often than marine simply because it is the open team when I join a server. Before natural selection I played SCBW and SC2 on the strategy end, and Unreal and CS on the shooter end. I am not making these suggestions because I seriously believe them to be the best solutions. They are too simplistic. But they serve the purpose of pointing out what is lacking.
They are suggestions that give ideas to what could possibly make this a better game. If you feel offended that I have pointed this out, feel free to be offended. In life, people will often tell you things you don't want to hear. Vegetables are good for you, eat your peas. Hard work isn't always rewarded, except with more work. George Carlin is dead.
It is called life, deal with it. Have respect for others and they will respect you in turn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mostly everyone's disagreed with your opinion and has shot everything down. Being a game designer is not so easy, even on a forum post. How about you try this?
Give us ONE good idea/good feature to put into the game. Say, like your SMG, and be detailed on how you'd make it work... BUT, you have to take something out as well. You're the Lead Game Designer for NS2 today, but I'm the budget guy, and I say that we simply do not have money to put in an extra weapon. We can only take something out, but we're willing to do it, because you are the idea guy.
Go ahead, try it. If your ideas are strong enough, you will come up with an idea that can completely remove another feature of the game of equal value. If you cannot come up with an idea, then please do not chastise the development team for not coming up with many more weapons under a limited budget.
Anyway, customization does nothing to reduce repetition. Just look at COD, masses of weapons, a bunch of perks, still boring as hell after 10 minutes. The intrinsic problem I see in trying to introduce replayability based on customization is that it undermines replayability based on gameplay. You are essentially saying "the base of our game is dude runs around corner and shoots other dude, now lets give him 100 different guns to shoot him with". Instead, you should be saying "instead of giving the player 100 different ways to run around a corner and shoot a dude, lets allow him to jump down a ledge, climb up a ledge, peak around the corner, wait for the other dude to come around the corner, etc.".
In terms of gameplay replayability, compared to other games, I think NS2 is pretty much king.
It is called life, deal with it. Have respect for others and they will respect you in turn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're proposing sweeping changes to the game that would instantly destroy any semblance of balance, and at the same time basically saying the game should just be TF2. The people on these forums have been following NS2 since its alpha and beta infancy, seen the tumult of balance changes and features added/removed--it's like it's their own communal baby. These guys have several hundreds/thousands of hours of experience. They're aware of how surgical game changes have to be. Anyone is free to make suggestions, but these guys are the ones who judge them. And they've earnt that right.
I think it isn't bad to slowly (and step by step) add weapons to the armory. Careful balanced this updates could keep the game alive in the long run. But I also think that aliens are much more in need of getting new upgrades and toys. YAY GorgeTunnels! :)
Neither an SMG nor a chaingun would need to be more powerful than the default rifle. Merely different. If it plays differently, it creates an entirely new experience for players. That's enough to promote more varied gameplay. To those knocking the team fortress reference, it is there for a reason: to equate the team interaction between the two games. I don't suggest predefined classes that trap a player in a particular role, merely an expansion of the existing system of equipment defining enhancements. Options. More options create more varied gameplay.
Certain abilities or specializations would promote better team coordination, beyond merely covering someone while they build, or fire grenades around the corner. More than merely standing back with a welder to repair an exosuit. That is the literal extent of the current squad level gameplay. The commander level, with the strategic view and objectives, can deal with coordinated attacks and higher level objectives, but that doesn't touch the players, except in the broadest sense of winning or losing the game.
I am merely pointing out that there is an entire area of the game that is underdeveloped. The squad level player interaction. It is still fully possible to form a small group of two or three individuals and work together exceedingly well. And that requires player initiative and that is good. But there is so much more potential! And this holds equally true for the aliens as the marines, though I am at a loss as to what can be suggested to improve their situation overall.
As for the people saying I have not played enough of the game. I have currently clocked over 65 hours in the game. I have played both marine and alien, without preference. Though I have landed alien more often than marine simply because it is the open team when I join a server. Before natural selection I played SCBW and SC2 on the strategy end, and Unreal and CS on the shooter end. I am not making these suggestions because I seriously believe them to be the best solutions. They are too simplistic. But they serve the purpose of pointing out what is lacking.
They are suggestions that give ideas to what could possibly make this a better game. If you feel offended that I have pointed this out, feel free to be offended. In life, people will often tell you things you don't want to hear. Vegetables are good for you, eat your peas. Hard work isn't always rewarded, except with more work. George Carlin is dead.
It is called life, deal with it. Have respect for others and they will respect you in turn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'm really confused and still unable to see why you believe the squad interactions are lacking in NS2... if anything it requires 10 times more coordination than tf2 already, and if the average level of pub coordination is anything to go by, being more complicated is probably the last thing this game needs.
i want to comment on your TF2 reference... since i have played at least 2300 hours of tf2 (mostly pub play and some 6v6 comp) i feel that i should be able to relate to it. the fact is that despite the classes, tf2 was severely lacking depth as a new game, it certainly benefitted from 'unlock' weapons, because there were literally no options before. the role of every class is glorified and what you basically have is 8 classes which are the same - they deal damage, plus a medic. there is no res management, build orders or asymmetric teams - it was just as shallow as a 2d body of water.
however, there are only very few unlocks in tf2 that i would consider 'fun'. 95% of the unlocks are gimmicky and annoying crap which make the game more derpy/spammy. e.g. the soldier vanilla rocket launcher versus the other rocket launcher options - it's stupid. the vanilla rocket launcher is still the best 'all round' option and the others are gimmicky, complicated and annoying.
i think the only unlocks in tf2 which i like are the ones which are <b><u>entirely</u></b> different. for example the sniper sacrificing his secondary weapon SMG for a jar of urine, which he can throw to amplify damage on a group of targets or 'highlight' a spy so it's easier for your (noob) team to spot and kill him when/if he gets away from you.
more diversity is not always a good thing, and should only be sought when the depth or level of diversity is not satisfactory to begin with. ns2 is designed as a competitive game, just 2 weeks after release is certainly not the right time to talk about adding 'padding'.
The only thing is that everything needs to cost res and research based, it's an RTS, you can't spawn with free stuff.
I cant believe anyone would suggest this.
What is happening to people???
You don't need to spend a ton of time showing how he's wrong or questioning whether he's <i>actually</i> played 65 hours; I'm sure UWE have their ideas about this game, and probably will not be taking it along these lines.
Give us ONE good idea/good feature to put into the game. Say, like your SMG, and be detailed on how you'd make it work... BUT, you have to take something out as well. You're the Lead Game Designer for NS2 today, but I'm the budget guy, and I say that we simply do not have money to put in an extra weapon. We can only take something out, but we're willing to do it, because you are the idea guy.
Go ahead, try it. If your ideas are strong enough, you will come up with an idea that can completely remove another feature of the game of equal value. If you cannot come up with an idea, then please do not chastise the development team for not coming up with many more weapons under a limited budget.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easiest thing in the world. Remove commander medpack. It is something that is entirely too situational, and turns into a click spamming festival where the com is attempting to keep a single player alive. Give that power to the players instead, as a purchasable item with a limited ammo capacity (2 or 3 depending on the cost). Run out of medpacks? Ask the com for a supply drop. A squad of marines giving the aliens trouble? Kill the marine playing at medic, swarm the rest.
<!--quoteo(post=2022719:date=Nov 13 2012, 05:57 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Nov 13 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2022719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A marine, upon spawning, is able to buy all of the things you have just listed as long as their commander has done the proper research. The LMG fits the bill of both a sub-machinegun and an assault-rifle, while the Exo is equiped with <i>two</i> infinite ammo chainguns.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right now the squad level interaction is based around killing stuff and building stuff. Give us more ways to do that that remain balanced. Give us new interactions to perform (such as medic), where we can have a variety of functions and roles within a group. A chaingun should not be compared to the gatling guns on the mechs. They would be far less powerful and fill a different role (suppression). You get into position at the end of a hallway and fire down its length, preventing aliens from coming around the corner while your squad moves in. If the aliens rush you, you are in a good position to deal massive damage before going down. If you have support, you probably wont be going down. But if the aliens sneak around and take out that key player, they have just dealt a major blow to the marines that were with him. Balance it with a set-up time, reduced fire rate, etc. I don't care, but give us options.
There should be medics to heal marines instead of the kind of terrible idea of the commander materializing instant health refills by dropping medpacks on players' heads. Not only is it pants-on-head retarded from a suspension of disbelief standpoint, it's also a bit overpowered as it stands for pushes. IMO.
There should also be less armories per map and no armour refill from them. But we've already covered that.
Medics and welders = teamplay
Medpack rain dance and armour refill at spammable vending machines = terrible, terrible implementation
Hahaha, it's actually a good idea! Lemme help. The marines should have a sort of syringe that they stab into another marine. It has a slow rate of fire, like a knife stab. This makes it so that marines have to stick together, comm stops spamming meds like you said, and marines would be doing "syringe high fives" during combat to stay alive. Of course this would be a major nerf to the Marine side and would require major rebalancing but it would make it way more interesting.
To be fair though, you removed a small feature in favor of a new item. The medpack item would require animation and generally a lot more work than magically appearing med packs do. Still, it's a solid idea. I *did* ask for a weapon, and I doubt you can give us a good weapon idea that is better than any of the current weapons, but I digress.
NS2 community, can you shoot down this medpack idea?
Joking aside, try the COMBATâ„¢ mod, its actually shaping up quite well.
Charlie built this game to be modded, so go go community, add in the medics to COMBATâ„¢ mod!
Joking aside, try the COMBATâ„¢ mod, its actually shaping up quite well.
Charlie built this game to be modded, so go go community, add in the medics to COMBATâ„¢ mod!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
combat shaping up quite well??
Have you played it? the maps are ridiculously bad and one sided.
Aliens suck, it is impossible to spawn, half the time you get stuck in a look "no room found for you to spawn in, reattempting" or something like that
combat is broken and that is why there is only 3 or 4 servers and a handful of people play it.
If it worked it would have a more solid player base.
Aliens do have an ability to see marines through walls, the ranged weapon of the skulk and lerk lights up marines through walls.
Mort commed for me in a pub game last night. Rushed 6 minute Ono's super original right.
He is a decent player but I could tell by playing with him that his idea of the game isn't on par with what the game is actually supposed to be.
Mort commed for me in a pub game last night. Rushed 6 minute Ono's super original right.
He is a decent player but I could tell by playing with him that his idea of the game isn't on par with what the game is actually supposed to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
are you sure you're not mort on a new forum account?