Buying supplies.
Blindga
Join Date: 2012-10-21 Member: 162931Members
Join Date: 2012-10-21 Member: 162931Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Getting health, ammo, and armor should take res.</div>So I've seen a few ideas and requests about taking away marine healing armor in base, and how armories can make any area into a defensive stronghold too easily due to quick healing and armor recovery being available anywhere an armory can be built. I wanted to try an idea I have and see what you guys think balance wise.
I think a good counter to that would be to have recovering health and armor and ammo should take a drop of res to do. This would make hit and run tactics more appealing because forcing them to heal constantly would chip away at that man's res, and would either force them to keep spending or to take a risk and go out injured.
To balance the penalty of purchasing supplies, these items are more instantaneous and can be picked out of the shop quickly. This would prevent having to stand around in front of an armory during dire situations to get ready (which I think just looks silly), and would speed up marines and reduce the need to stand around before actually doing anything. While it requires more navigating in the armory shop, it only takes a second to choose a gun as of right now, and the same would apply for any other supplies. The time needed in the shop would be minimal compared to having to stand in front of a glowing box for several seconds while you try to heal up like now.
Here's what I had in mind:
"
<b>Restore Health (Purchase at armory for 1 res)</b> Nanite surgery heals all wounds in just a second.
<b>Replenish Ammo (Purchase at armory for 1 res)</b> The armory is capable of producing any ammo, and this purchase instantly fills up all your guns.
<b>Repair armor (Purchase at armory for 1 res)</b> A nanite swarm repairs 50pts of armor on the spot.
<b>Full resupply (Purchase at advanced armory for 3 res)</b> The works. Gives you 50pts of armor, max ammo, and full heal on the spot. Requires an upgraded armory though.
"
I've said this once or twice now, and I've already gotten a few good counters I'm not sure about. One said this would cripple the marine's ability to fight back. Indeed, if the game is going badly for the marines, and marine resources are choking out, than merely healing would become a chore in this idea. Maybe that is not so bad though?
Since I think armor is much more valuable than normal health, I only suggested a partial armor restore so as to not completely counter the usefulness of a welder in the group (which would ultimately save res for everyone), but nearer to endgame when marines have more armor points, than would this become impractical?
Let me know what you think.
I think a good counter to that would be to have recovering health and armor and ammo should take a drop of res to do. This would make hit and run tactics more appealing because forcing them to heal constantly would chip away at that man's res, and would either force them to keep spending or to take a risk and go out injured.
To balance the penalty of purchasing supplies, these items are more instantaneous and can be picked out of the shop quickly. This would prevent having to stand around in front of an armory during dire situations to get ready (which I think just looks silly), and would speed up marines and reduce the need to stand around before actually doing anything. While it requires more navigating in the armory shop, it only takes a second to choose a gun as of right now, and the same would apply for any other supplies. The time needed in the shop would be minimal compared to having to stand in front of a glowing box for several seconds while you try to heal up like now.
Here's what I had in mind:
"
<b>Restore Health (Purchase at armory for 1 res)</b> Nanite surgery heals all wounds in just a second.
<b>Replenish Ammo (Purchase at armory for 1 res)</b> The armory is capable of producing any ammo, and this purchase instantly fills up all your guns.
<b>Repair armor (Purchase at armory for 1 res)</b> A nanite swarm repairs 50pts of armor on the spot.
<b>Full resupply (Purchase at advanced armory for 3 res)</b> The works. Gives you 50pts of armor, max ammo, and full heal on the spot. Requires an upgraded armory though.
"
I've said this once or twice now, and I've already gotten a few good counters I'm not sure about. One said this would cripple the marine's ability to fight back. Indeed, if the game is going badly for the marines, and marine resources are choking out, than merely healing would become a chore in this idea. Maybe that is not so bad though?
Since I think armor is much more valuable than normal health, I only suggested a partial armor restore so as to not completely counter the usefulness of a welder in the group (which would ultimately save res for everyone), but nearer to endgame when marines have more armor points, than would this become impractical?
Let me know what you think.
Comments
The Armory could have some visual bar where you can see how many more uses it can make,
The bar could also be shown in commander view on the map.
This could also make so that an upgraded Armory can carry more supply and wont get refilled as much.
Lets say that the normal Armory have 75 supplies and if you upgrade the armor then it will have 150 supplies,
Each Supply acts like one Health Pack/Ammo Pack. Armor should be free to get back because the Armory could have a built in welder that welds people that come close.
Giving Health and Ammo to players should always be the commanders job..
Can you explain? I'm not quite sure what you meant by that. Are you saying that buying supplies is to powerful?
The Armory could have some visual bar where you can see how many more uses it can make,
The bar could also be shown in commander view on the map.
This could also make so that an upgraded Armory can carry more supply and wont get refilled as much.
Lets say that the normal Armory have 75 supplies and if you upgrade the armor then it will have 150 supplies,
Each Supply acts like one Health Pack/Ammo Pack. Armor should be free to get back because the Armory could have a built in welder that welds people that come close.
Giving Health and Ammo to players should always be the commanders job..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, lets remove forward armouries, and crags, and shifts, and shades, just all onos all the time.
<!--quoteo(post=2020887:date=Nov 13 2012, 01:57 AM:name=Blindga)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blindga @ Nov 13 2012, 01:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020887"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can you explain? I'm not quite sure what you meant by that. Are you saying that buying supplies is to powerful?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be a huge drain on pres and completely negate the LMG being free, which gives you a no pres alternative. Also, armoury takes 10 tres to build, you invest in that because you don't want to have to drop ammo and health constantly, draining your tres.
I don't even get what the problem is, just bile bomb the armory and they can't resupply.
I don't even get what the problem is, just bile bomb the armory and they can't resupply.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wish people would agree with that, but some people just don't get it. All I ever hear is 'hit the power'. Bleh... I won't sit around gripe at the community though.
In this model though, I don't see why a single res would cause a problem for health and ammo. It would only punish the marine's if they are losing. If the game is going well for them than it shouldn't matter if they lose a single res. They'll get it back in just five seconds. The aliens can't get <i> anything </i> done without spending res, especially late game where skulks are nearly useless. The marines can do to be more level there a bit.
In any case, I don't like the current armory at all. I don't see why the strange and monsterous aliens take forever to heal and the marines have a super-regeneration box machine that heals health, ammo, and armor in just a few seconds. I would think the aliens would be the ones who heal fast, and the marines would have to be the careful ones. It just seems backwards to me...
I'm saying that 3 pres is nothing, no one will feel it. Would I spend 3pres to instaheal during a fight? Hell yeah I would, I'd do it 10 times in a row
Requiring pres for resupply is not the way, just deactivate armor healing and everything will be good
In this model though, I don't see why a single res would cause a problem for health and ammo. It would only punish the marine's if they are losing. If the game is going well for them than it shouldn't matter if they lose a single res. They'll get it back in just five seconds. The aliens can't get <i> anything </i> done without spending res, especially late game where skulks are nearly useless. The marines can do to be more level there a bit.
In any case, I don't like the current armory at all. I don't see why the strange and monsterous aliens take forever to heal and the marines have a super-regeneration box machine that heals health, ammo, and armor in just a few seconds. I would think the aliens would be the ones who heal fast, and the marines would have to be the careful ones. It just seems backwards to me...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jetpacks, mines and welders aren't free though. Also, I would argue that alien buildings can be just as annoying. Ever chased an onos into a shade with crags? Shifts are great too.
If you did this change, marines could never do early game pressure on alien hives. Currently they can deploy armoury near a hive and keep aliens busy for a long time, or even win the game. I like that, its very tense and makes things more interesting than a simple tech-up.
If you did this change, marines could never do early game pressure on alien hives. Currently they can deploy armoury near a hive and keep aliens busy for a long time, or even win the game. I like that, its very tense and makes things more interesting than a simple tech-up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think people ITT underestimate how easily a forward armory can be denied, and the difficulty in putting one down really close to the action. Like, it's 10 tres, build time, requires power, can't be built on infestation. If the marines want to build one they have to get rid of the infestation (lighting up the map with red circles, and you're easier to sneak up on usually if you're crouched down killing a cyst) and keep the area secure enough to get stuff built. Even then, it usually takes a phase gate to truly secure the area. A good push and a bunch of bile bombs can still dislodge it. The magical healy box is good but it just isn't as powerful as some think :S
Still, if it was at all possible to make a mini-mod with this mechanic, I would like to test it and see how it worked; just to test. I just have a hard time understanding that this wouldn't work at least a little better than it currently does.
<!--quoteo(post=2020923:date=Nov 12 2012, 11:38 AM:name=Blindga)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blindga @ Nov 12 2012, 11:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020923"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In any case, I don't like the current armory at all. I don't see why the strange and monsterous aliens take forever to heal and the marines have a super-regeneration box machine that heals health, ammo, and armor in just a few seconds. I would think the aliens would be the ones who heal fast, and the marines would have to be the careful ones. It just seems backwards to me...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've always felt the same way. Maybe that's why we'd both like to see what having this implemented would be like?
<!--quoteo(post=2021047:date=Nov 12 2012, 01:36 PM:name=Blindga)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blindga @ Nov 12 2012, 01:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2021047"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Too bad no one like this idea. Well, I guess that's that.
Still, if it was at all possible to make a mini-mod with this mechanic, I would like to test it and see how it worked; just to test. I just have a hard time understanding that this wouldn't work at least a little better than it currently does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, maybe you could try and get this into the prototyping mod? I might play around with a variant of my original idea in my own mod.