<!--quoteo(post=2019158:date=Nov 10 2012, 07:28 PM:name=ogz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogz @ Nov 10 2012, 07:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019158"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think maybe new players assume that cysts and infestation needs to connect together
I think its pretty intuitive. They even glow when connected and dull when not connected so they can know. If you see your cysts exploding just remind your com to keep em connected. I don't think its a mistake someone will make twice.
<!--quoteo(post=2019165:date=Nov 10 2012, 07:33 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Nov 10 2012, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019165"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They do need to be connected together. Did you mean the opposite?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol I failed at reading. Yeah cysts NEED to be connected.
I think it's pretty dumb how cysts need to be in LOS of each other to be extended. I also think the khammander should get a pool of free cysts that slowly recharges over time - either that or cysts need to have twice the hp they have now so Welders/Flamethrowers are more of a necessity for taking them out.
<!--quoteo(post=2019184:date=Nov 10 2012, 07:57 PM:name=Idleray)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Idleray @ Nov 10 2012, 07:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019184"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it's pretty dumb how cysts need to be in LOS of each other to be extended. I also think the khammander should get a pool of free cysts that slowly recharges over time - either that or cysts need to have twice the hp they have now so Welders/Flamethrowers are more of a necessity for taking them out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd rather see Infestation be more of a detriment to Marines. Slow them or just GOBBLE THEM TO PIECES THE SECOND THEY STEP ON IT, etc. idk
<!--quoteo(post=2019192:date=Nov 10 2012, 08:08 PM:name=TimmahIsASaint)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimmahIsASaint @ Nov 10 2012, 08:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd rather see Infestation be more of a detriment to Marines. Slow them or just GOBBLE THEM TO PIECES THE SECOND THEY STEP ON IT, etc. idk<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think just simply preventing marines from sprinting while on infestation would have enough of an impact. It would slow down marine movement while on it without being annoying and just slowing down base speed.
Infestation should be a detriment. It should make you fear stepping into alien territory. In StarCraft, it's incredible dangerous in the mid game vs Zerg to just run around on creep, especially vs Ling/Bling for Terran or mass Roach/Ling vs Protoss. Their huge movement speed can wipe out everything in your army in a matter of seconds if you aren't prepared.
My thoughts: - Deals small damage over time - Slows marine movement down to by 25% - Increases alien movement speed and/or energy regen - Prevents sprinting by marines - Heals aliens at half the rate of a crag, occurs while in combat - Landing on infestation with a jetpack roots/slows you for 1 second/3 seconds - As infestation progresses, it covers up lighting, making it almost pitch black inside infested areas, no emergency lighting - Cysts can be upgraded for 1TRes to plant sticky mines near the Cyst that attaches and explodes dealing about half marine HP in damage, only destroyed with FT or GL
<!--quoteo(post=2019223:date=Nov 10 2012, 09:42 PM:name=RaZDaZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaZDaZ @ Nov 10 2012, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019223"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Infestation should be a detriment. It should make you fear stepping into alien territory. In StarCraft, it's incredible dangerous in the mid game vs Zerg to just run around on creep, especially vs Ling/Bling for Terran or mass Roach/Ling vs Protoss. Their huge movement speed can wipe out everything in your army in a matter of seconds if you aren't prepared.
My thoughts: - Deals small damage over time - Slows marine movement down to by 25% - Increases alien movement speed and/or energy regen - Prevents sprinting by marines - Heals aliens at half the rate of a crag, occurs while in combat - Landing on infestation with a jetpack roots/slows you for 1 second/3 seconds - As infestation progresses, it covers up lighting, making it almost pitch black inside infested areas, no emergency lighting - Cysts can be upgraded for 1TRes to plant sticky mines near the Cyst that attaches and explodes dealing about half marine HP in damage, only destroyed with FT or GL<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> some of those thoughts are pretty big balance changes
I think it would good to allow the gorge to drop cysts with the same cost as the Khammander, maybe harvesters as well. Would let gorges help the alien comm, as well as give the gorges more purpose.
Maybe individual cysts can be upgraded into different cyst types with different abilities?
Pressure Cyst / 5 Team Res: Reveals a single Marine within its infestation range on the Kharaa map. Slime Cyst / 10 Team Res: Prevents sprinting, or gives sprinting Marines a chance to slip for a second (ala Onos Stomp) Acid Cyst / 15 Team Res: Deals structural damage upon rupture (ala Bile Bomb)
Maybe there could be individual cyst colors/models/skins/sounds to help Marines identify what threat they face.
One of the devs commented that a penalty for Marines on infestation would have to translate for a penalty to Aliens off of infestation and vice-versa, so they had no interest in pursuing that concept.
<!--quoteo(post=2019184:date=Nov 11 2012, 04:57 AM:name=Idleray)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Idleray @ Nov 11 2012, 04:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019184"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it's pretty dumb how cysts need to be in LOS of each other to be extended. I also think the khammander should get a pool of free cysts that slowly recharges over time - either that or cysts need to have twice the hp they have now so Welders/Flamethrowers are more of a necessity for taking them out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They don't need to be in LOS. It rather seems like it performs a pathfinding algorithm from the cyst in range to the position of the new cysts, so you are not exactly limited by the radius but instead how far a player had to walk the distance to the next cyst. So you can build around corners, but doing so requires more "walking distance" and so you can't extend the cyst as far as the radius indicates.
However, I sometimes had problems where a cyst would not be able to be placed somewhere, even though it was clearly in range of another one. Namely in C-12: if you have your cyst down at the RT point, you can't immediately connect to the east tunnel. Instead you have to plant cysts along the path on the other side of the wall at the RT to get there. Cyst chains also don't seem to update when you build a new Hive. If a cyst chain is sewered and your Hive finished growing, it still won't update those cysts before you build one more at that Hive to update the chain, which could cause your other cysts to die if you forget about it.
<!--quoteo(post=2019365:date=Nov 11 2012, 03:46 AM:name=Kopikat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kopikat @ Nov 11 2012, 03:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019365"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One of the devs commented that a penalty for Marines on infestation would have to translate for a penalty to Aliens off of infestation and vice-versa, so they had no interest in pursuing that concept.
Don't remember who exactly said it though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, we should watch what we wish for.
One thing that does annoy me with Infestation is that sometimes a cyst will place far, far above the map near the camera and grow a big cloud of infestation that I can't see through. Quite annoying, and odd since vertically they're way further apart than should be possible.
I do wish I could place it on the ceiling or something if I wanted to, but there's not really a good way to implement something like that.
<!--quoteo(post=2019184:date=Nov 10 2012, 07:57 PM:name=Idleray)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Idleray @ Nov 10 2012, 07:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019184"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it's pretty dumb how cysts need to be in LOS of each other to be extended. I also think the khammander should get a pool of free cysts that slowly recharges over time - either that or cysts need to have twice the hp they have now so Welders/Flamethrowers are more of a necessity for taking them out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the line of sight requiered is inded really stupid and waste a lot of res everytime there's different hights in a room like stairs, ramps etc. We should also be able to put them on walls, as a matter of fact, practically all alien buildins should be able to grow on walls.
<!--quoteo(post=2019531:date=Nov 11 2012, 05:47 AM:name=Soulfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soulfighter @ Nov 11 2012, 05:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019531"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the line of sight requiered is inded really stupid and waste a lot of res everytime there's different hights in a room like stairs, ramps etc. We should also be able to put them on walls, as a matter of fact, practically all alien buildins should be able to grow on walls.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be impractical given the Khammander's top-down non-isometric POV. We can't even see walls atm. How do you put stuff on something you can't see?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also think the khammander should get a pool of free cysts that slowly recharges over time<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was tried during the beta but was removed as: Alien expansion at the start becomes too slow, but once they build up that energy, they can spam cysts to a ridiculous amount.
The current Res for cyst system works nicely, where you have a trade-off - more cysts to expand, or save that res for upgrades/lifeforms?
it is a risk for marines to get on the infestation. You can rupture cysts for 1 tres when they are matured. Damaging the marines close to them. but I do not know how much damage they inflict.
I do not like the cooldown of cyst placement though. (or it shut only trigger if the cysts was actually placed)
<!--quoteo(post=2019658:date=Nov 11 2012, 03:45 PM:name=ogz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogz @ Nov 11 2012, 03:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i have no idea where the discussion has gone lol
The point I was trying to make is that people seem to think you need to cyst realllly close together, so that the infestation blobs are touching
I think the comm spent the game watching each infestation from cyst slowly grow outwards before placing the next one at the edge of the infestation
towards cave you can see he got a bit frustated at hte growing speed and stacked cysts even closer together
I think that picture was at the 20 minute mark with about 200 cysts placed lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's very obvious they don't need to be that close since you're shown the approximate range. If the is commander so bad he thinks they must touch you're screwed either way.
Yeah, there's a pretty clear radius shown on your screen when you do cyst placement. Not sure how it could be made more obvious that cysts don't have to be placed on infestation, just placed in the radius.
<!--quoteo(post=2019631:date=Nov 11 2012, 09:11 AM:name=Sehzade)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sehzade @ Nov 11 2012, 09:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019631"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it is a risk for marines to get on the infestation. You can rupture cysts for 1 tres when they are matured. Damaging the marines close to them. but I do not know how much damage they inflict.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They inflict zero damage. What they do is put some goo on their screen for like 1 second.
Comments
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/IG5Vg.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think its pretty intuitive. They even glow when connected and dull when not connected so they can know. If you see your cysts exploding just remind your com to keep em connected. I don't think its a mistake someone will make twice.
lol I failed at reading. Yeah cysts NEED to be connected.
I'd rather see Infestation be more of a detriment to Marines. Slow them or just GOBBLE THEM TO PIECES THE SECOND THEY STEP ON IT, etc. idk
I think just simply preventing marines from sprinting while on infestation would have enough of an impact. It would slow down marine movement while on it without being annoying and just slowing down base speed.
My thoughts:
- Deals small damage over time
- Slows marine movement down to by 25%
- Increases alien movement speed and/or energy regen
- Prevents sprinting by marines
- Heals aliens at half the rate of a crag, occurs while in combat
- Landing on infestation with a jetpack roots/slows you for 1 second/3 seconds
- As infestation progresses, it covers up lighting, making it almost pitch black inside infested areas, no emergency lighting
- Cysts can be upgraded for 1TRes to plant sticky mines near the Cyst that attaches and explodes dealing about half marine HP in damage, only destroyed with FT or GL
My thoughts:
- Deals small damage over time
- Slows marine movement down to by 25%
- Increases alien movement speed and/or energy regen
- Prevents sprinting by marines
- Heals aliens at half the rate of a crag, occurs while in combat
- Landing on infestation with a jetpack roots/slows you for 1 second/3 seconds
- As infestation progresses, it covers up lighting, making it almost pitch black inside infested areas, no emergency lighting
- Cysts can be upgraded for 1TRes to plant sticky mines near the Cyst that attaches and explodes dealing about half marine HP in damage, only destroyed with FT or GL<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
some of those thoughts are pretty big balance changes
Pressure Cyst / 5 Team Res: Reveals a single Marine within its infestation range on the Kharaa map.
Slime Cyst / 10 Team Res: Prevents sprinting, or gives sprinting Marines a chance to slip for a second (ala Onos Stomp)
Acid Cyst / 15 Team Res: Deals structural damage upon rupture (ala Bile Bomb)
Maybe there could be individual cyst colors/models/skins/sounds to help Marines identify what threat they face.
Don't remember who exactly said it though.
They don't need to be in LOS. It rather seems like it performs a pathfinding algorithm from the cyst in range to the position of the new cysts, so you are not exactly limited by the radius but instead how far a player had to walk the distance to the next cyst. So you can build around corners, but doing so requires more "walking distance" and so you can't extend the cyst as far as the radius indicates.
However, I sometimes had problems where a cyst would not be able to be placed somewhere, even though it was clearly in range of another one. Namely in C-12: if you have your cyst down at the RT point, you can't immediately connect to the east tunnel. Instead you have to plant cysts along the path on the other side of the wall at the RT to get there.
Cyst chains also don't seem to update when you build a new Hive. If a cyst chain is sewered and your Hive finished growing, it still won't update those cysts before you build one more at that Hive to update the chain, which could cause your other cysts to die if you forget about it.
Don't remember who exactly said it though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, we should watch what we wish for.
One thing that does annoy me with Infestation is that sometimes a cyst will place far, far above the map near the camera and grow a big cloud of infestation that I can't see through. Quite annoying, and odd since vertically they're way further apart than should be possible.
I do wish I could place it on the ceiling or something if I wanted to, but there's not really a good way to implement something like that.
the line of sight requiered is inded really stupid and waste a lot of res everytime there's different hights in a room like stairs, ramps etc. We should also be able to put them on walls, as a matter of fact, practically all alien buildins should be able to grow on walls.
It would be impractical given the Khammander's top-down non-isometric POV. We can't even see walls atm. How do you put stuff on something you can't see?
This was tried during the beta but was removed as: Alien expansion at the start becomes too slow, but once they build up that energy, they can spam cysts to a ridiculous amount.
The current Res for cyst system works nicely, where you have a trade-off - more cysts to expand, or save that res for upgrades/lifeforms?
but I do not know how much damage they inflict.
I do not like the cooldown of cyst placement though. (or it shut only trigger if the cysts was actually placed)
The point I was trying to make is that people seem to think you need to cyst realllly close together, so that the infestation blobs are touching
I think the comm spent the game watching each infestation from cyst slowly grow outwards before placing the next one at the edge of the infestation
towards cave you can see he got a bit frustated at hte growing speed and stacked cysts even closer together
I think that picture was at the 20 minute mark with about 200 cysts placed lol
The point I was trying to make is that people seem to think you need to cyst realllly close together, so that the infestation blobs are touching
I think the comm spent the game watching each infestation from cyst slowly grow outwards before placing the next one at the edge of the infestation
towards cave you can see he got a bit frustated at hte growing speed and stacked cysts even closer together
I think that picture was at the 20 minute mark with about 200 cysts placed lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's very obvious they don't need to be that close since you're shown the approximate range. If the is commander so bad he thinks they must touch you're screwed either way.
but I do not know how much damage they inflict.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They inflict zero damage. What they do is put some goo on their screen for like 1 second.