Marines and Aliens start with Base defense
biggians
Join Date: 2012-11-08 Member: 168454Members
Join Date: 2012-11-08 Member: 168454Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Because rushing is stupid and not fun</div>Nobody has fun when the aliens just rush into the marine base, munch the power node out, and GG the command station. I'd say the same for when the marines rush, but lol, that never happens and the aliens could still get to the marine base and kill it faster than un-upgraded ARs ever will. Anyway, the point is, nobody has fun when one team rushes and wins because the other team was far away setting up extractors and power and they run slow so they cant get back to base in time and... you get the idea.
For balance sake, i'm going to say that both teams start with base defense, although I really, REALLY, think only the marines need it. Not a lot, maybe like 3 sentries(with 2 batteries, since hydras don't have a battery weakness) around the command station/3 hydras around the hive. Enough to deter all but the heaviest of rushes, and enough so that when the commander on either side sees it happening, he has a chance to clean up along with the base defenses to prevent this stupid and silly tactic.
Thoughts?
For balance sake, i'm going to say that both teams start with base defense, although I really, REALLY, think only the marines need it. Not a lot, maybe like 3 sentries(with 2 batteries, since hydras don't have a battery weakness) around the command station/3 hydras around the hive. Enough to deter all but the heaviest of rushes, and enough so that when the commander on either side sees it happening, he has a chance to clean up along with the base defenses to prevent this stupid and silly tactic.
Thoughts?
Comments
Maybe the CC itself could let you place one or two sentries next to it (at a resource cost), just to provide a slight deterrent?
what you're asking for is a fail-safe anti-failure measure.
if the marine team don't epic fail, this never happens.
For balance sake, i'm going to say that both teams start with base defense, although I really, REALLY, think only the marines need it. Not a lot, maybe like 3 sentries(with 2 batteries, since hydras don't have a battery weakness) around the command station/3 hydras around the hive. Enough to deter all but the heaviest of rushes, and enough so that when the commander on either side sees it happening, he has a chance to clean up along with the base defenses to prevent this stupid and silly tactic.
Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marine rush.
Never happens.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
For balance sake, i'm going to say that both teams start with base defense, although I really, REALLY, think only the marines need it. Not a lot, maybe like 3 sentries(with 2 batteries, since hydras don't have a battery weakness) around the command station/3 hydras around the hive. Enough to deter all but the heaviest of rushes, and enough so that when the commander on either side sees it happening, he has a chance to clean up along with the base defenses to prevent this stupid and silly tactic.
Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2017600:date=Nov 9 2012, 10:57 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Nov 9 2012, 10:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017600"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marine rush.
Never happens.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
only the marine team falls behind from a full out rush, it is an almost strictly advantageous opening move for the aliens, as it forces the marines to stop everything they are doing and return to base, costing valuable early game time for marine expansion. Since the Alien commander doesn't need people to build his structures for him, you can see why a rush heavily favors aliens.
<!--quoteo(post=2017654:date=Nov 9 2012, 04:42 PM:name=Kodu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kodu @ Nov 9 2012, 04:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017654"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now im sure in pub games people are bad and they dont react well enough and you have some frustrating losses but that's simply not enough to go on and completely change the early metagame<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no proper reaction on the marine side, at the very start of the game marines must go out to build structures, with MAYBE 1 marine and the commander staying in base to build a few things. as the marines are easily expanding and building around, the aliens make it into the base and start munching on the command center, every single marine turns around to head back, but its too late. by the time they get there the CC has 5% health left at best. On docking as marines, I've been as close as departures and I still couldn't get back in time to kill any of them. A counter rush is also pointless because again, due to Marines moving slow when compared to skulks, they would never make it to the hive, let alone deal enough damage to make a difference. Skill has nothing to do with stopping a skulk rush, it's completely unpredictable, and unless for some magical reason all of your marines have gone nowhere since the game started, the skulks will easily deal serious damage and probably win.
A fair enough argument is that this would be a non-issue in competitive play. I agree, but not because it wouldn't work. Rather, something as simple and straightforward as a rush would be looked at as a childish tactic and poor sportsmanship, as there is no skill in rushing into a base and munching something to death while the other team is trying to be tactical and advance.
Early harassment is great, but the game isn't meant to be over in the first 5 minutes of gameplay, and early harassment is possible in more ways than directly attacking the CC/Hive, such as killing the first few extractors/harvesters that get placed.
My idea is far from bad, in fact its rooted in lots of personal experiences. I've played close to 50 games, (each game lasts roughly a half hour or more not counting rushes, so that's roughly 25 hours of in-game experience) so it's not as if I've lost to one or two rushes and decided to come here and rage about it. From my experience it heavily favors the aliens and ruins the fun of the game, so why not give both teams some kind of defense against it so a rush is a less desirable option? Someone said it themselves, its not as if the turrets or hydras are a major deterrent, but at least it's something.
Admittedly, it would seem that I end up in games that most people say never happen. An example would be that in almost every game i've played, the Aliens have won, yet people constantly tell me that Marines win more often. People also say that Marines do rushes too, but I have yet to see one. Granted, I haven't been playing since beta like some people have.
On marines however, it's possible to have the base rushed before you can get mines. Lowering the reserach time or maybe starting with armory could fix that (+ res adjustment possibly). Otherwise I don't think anything needs to be done.
<!--quoteo(post=2017415:date=Nov 9 2012, 09:10 PM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 9 2012, 09:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017415"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if the marine team don't epic fail, this never happens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. Even in competive games, where neither team is "epic fail", alien team can rush by being smart about it.
Congratulations! You just hard-countered skulk rush without even needing to be there.
Reading that just made me laugh a little. I'm not dissing your idea, in fact I'm modding in something vaguely similar, but there was a tournament about 2 weeks before launch day where one game literally lasted 56 seconds. :P
<!--quoteo(post=2017706:date=Nov 9 2012, 07:27 PM:name=biggians)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (biggians @ Nov 9 2012, 07:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017706"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->From my experience it heavily favors the aliens and ruins the fun of the game, so why not give both teams some kind of defense against it so a rush is a less desirable option? Someone said it themselves, its not as if the turrets or hydras are a major deterrent, but at least it's something.
Admittedly, it would seem that I end up in games that most people say never happen. An example would be that in almost every game i've played, the Aliens have won, yet people constantly tell me that Marines win more often. People also say that Marines do rushes too, but I have yet to see one. Granted, I haven't been playing since beta like some people have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marine rushes are a little more uncommon than alien rushes, but still just as effective. As often as marine base will be deserted in the first twenty seconds, the alien base is usually deserted twice as often twice as fast. All you need is three marines to go in there and egg-lock you, and you might as well call GG. Sure, the aliens could double back and try to get back to the hive before they can kill it, but that puts them all arriving at different time and completely removes their ability to surprise the marines. And by this point, usually the rest of the marines have figured out what's going on and head up to the hive as well.
Part of the crucial early gameplay for alien is skulk harassment. Without this, the marines are just free to go get res, res and more res.
Checks and balances.