[Video] Uncooperative Brushes
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I'm guessing this has already been mentioned before, but I wanted to add a few pointers on the subject.
Since I'm using Fraps and forgot to make the cursor visible the tools I'm using is not showing, but if you're somewhat familiar with the Spark Editor you should be able to recognize what I'm doing. I'm basically just using the Rectangle tool, Delete and Ctrl+Z buttons a lot, so don't get confused when things disappear.
What I have here is a simple room carved in 16". I've used the extrude tool to hallow out, and the move tool to increase and decrease depth. My goal, is to add a single flat surface in a designated area. I've had this problem many times over while I've made this particular room, in not just one area, but several. What happens, is that as soon as I attempt to add the surface, it makes a surface someplace else, somewhere I did not intend for it to appear. In this video you'll see how it reacts to the slightest reconstruction, and how I give up trying to figure out how to do it properly.
It took me about 20 minutes to create this room just because I don't seem to be using brushes properly. Frankly, I'm not sure if I will ever know how they intended for it to work unless someone tells me. The result, is that the process takes a hundred times longer because I'm spending the majority of my time rebuilding a single brush repeatedly.
<i>0:0 sec: Showing what the room looks like
0:30 sec: Using the rectangle tool to add the surface, first attempt.
0:43 sec: Deleting surface.
0:45 sec: Using the rectangle tool to add the surface, second attempt.
0:49 sec: Deleting surface.
0:53 sec: Deleting different surface.
0:58 sec: Using the rectangle tool to add the surface, third attempt.
1:00 sec: Woah, how did that happen?
and so on.</i>
I would like to suggest that
1.) the Rectangle tool is given a 4-8" radius of effect around its vertices and edges that prevents it from leaking over to other vertices and edges.
2.) to give the Rectangle tool a sub-tool that can toggle X, Y and Z to force the direction in which the surface is being made.
3.) vertices are "smartened up" to understand that when one of three vertices is deleted in a single edge it can glue the edge together (see example below).
*-------<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->-------* Deleting the middle vertex should not delete the entire edge. This problem mostly occurs when there is another edge in alignment, with a vertex in the same spot as the other edge. E.g., you've created a room by extruding, moving, extruding and moving, then you want to clean up the room by removing unnecessary vertices, but when you delete one of three vertices connected to a single edge it deletes half the room. *-------*-------* In this case, when deleting the middle vertex, what should happen is that it should ask itself "Are there more vertices?" then "In which direction are these vertices?" then understand that it should merge the edge in the direction of X, Y or Z depending on the direction of the other vertices in the edge.
But Hey! This is a new tool. People have used it, are using it, have made maps with it, are making maps with it. There is nothing wrong with the Spark Editor. Personally, I love it. I do not have the know-how, and can't possibly make it any better myself. All I can offer are my ideas, should you want them.
And if anyone has any ideas on how I can avoid this problem, please let me know, because it will definitely speed up my process.
I'm guessing this has already been mentioned before, but I wanted to add a few pointers on the subject.
Since I'm using Fraps and forgot to make the cursor visible the tools I'm using is not showing, but if you're somewhat familiar with the Spark Editor you should be able to recognize what I'm doing. I'm basically just using the Rectangle tool, Delete and Ctrl+Z buttons a lot, so don't get confused when things disappear.
What I have here is a simple room carved in 16". I've used the extrude tool to hallow out, and the move tool to increase and decrease depth. My goal, is to add a single flat surface in a designated area. I've had this problem many times over while I've made this particular room, in not just one area, but several. What happens, is that as soon as I attempt to add the surface, it makes a surface someplace else, somewhere I did not intend for it to appear. In this video you'll see how it reacts to the slightest reconstruction, and how I give up trying to figure out how to do it properly.
It took me about 20 minutes to create this room just because I don't seem to be using brushes properly. Frankly, I'm not sure if I will ever know how they intended for it to work unless someone tells me. The result, is that the process takes a hundred times longer because I'm spending the majority of my time rebuilding a single brush repeatedly.
<i>0:0 sec: Showing what the room looks like
0:30 sec: Using the rectangle tool to add the surface, first attempt.
0:43 sec: Deleting surface.
0:45 sec: Using the rectangle tool to add the surface, second attempt.
0:49 sec: Deleting surface.
0:53 sec: Deleting different surface.
0:58 sec: Using the rectangle tool to add the surface, third attempt.
1:00 sec: Woah, how did that happen?
and so on.</i>
I would like to suggest that
1.) the Rectangle tool is given a 4-8" radius of effect around its vertices and edges that prevents it from leaking over to other vertices and edges.
2.) to give the Rectangle tool a sub-tool that can toggle X, Y and Z to force the direction in which the surface is being made.
3.) vertices are "smartened up" to understand that when one of three vertices is deleted in a single edge it can glue the edge together (see example below).
*-------<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->-------* Deleting the middle vertex should not delete the entire edge. This problem mostly occurs when there is another edge in alignment, with a vertex in the same spot as the other edge. E.g., you've created a room by extruding, moving, extruding and moving, then you want to clean up the room by removing unnecessary vertices, but when you delete one of three vertices connected to a single edge it deletes half the room. *-------*-------* In this case, when deleting the middle vertex, what should happen is that it should ask itself "Are there more vertices?" then "In which direction are these vertices?" then understand that it should merge the edge in the direction of X, Y or Z depending on the direction of the other vertices in the edge.
But Hey! This is a new tool. People have used it, are using it, have made maps with it, are making maps with it. There is nothing wrong with the Spark Editor. Personally, I love it. I do not have the know-how, and can't possibly make it any better myself. All I can offer are my ideas, should you want them.
And if anyone has any ideas on how I can avoid this problem, please let me know, because it will definitely speed up my process.
Comments
I remember way back when that this was a big problem for me what I was just learning to use the editor. One of the other problems I had with having all faces merged was that eventually if you went crazy with it, if you double clicked, the entire map would be selected. So generally it is a good idea to try to segment things for ease of manipulation.
If you have seen any of the development videos by Mendasp, you will notice that he likes to do everything the manual way. That being manipulating individual faces vertex by vertex, or edge by edge. This can also take quite a bit of time, and you can develop shortcuts when you get more familiar with the editor. One of the things I've been wanting to do is make a documentation of a lot of tips and tricks I learned during my time mapping with Spark to make it easier and quicker for newer mappers to create content that fits together, works good, looks good, while still being easy to change if desired.
One thing you may want to try is to learn to switch between the extrusion process and the individual process.
A lot of the time, I like to start off extruding faces to make rooms quick and easy, and when I want to detail it more, I copy -> delete -> paste the face as an independent instance. From there I can either extrude further, or manipulate the face as I see fit. What that allows me is the ability to make smaller rooms, which I can select in its entirety with double click, without having to select the faces one at a time, and also without selecting the rest of the map.
Select, Translate, Rotate, and Scale are my most frequently used tools, and I found that binding them to 1, 2, 3 and 4 respectively helps in streamlining the process. Tab also alternates between the three manipulators if you also want to use that as well.
No matter how much I try to scale or recreate faces (even whole corridors) I still end up with cracks.
I'm not sure if this problem exists when all edges are merged, but I hear it doesn't really cause many problems with the game anyways. Aside from being ugly, that is. We just gotta wait on either UWE to find a tools programmer, or for Max or someone to get elbow deep in this and fix it. Obviously Max has a lot of stuff on his plate at any time, so it may be soon, or may take a while. All we know is that he doesn't have to worry about crunching for a release date anymore.
EDIT: Here is the thread if you're interested: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115747&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...=115747&hl=</a>
It does not cause any major problems so i'm fine with that, some extra props here and there can help.
Good thing, is that Spark/NS2 seems to ignore those glitches, unlike Hammer that needed everything to be 100% perfect or else you got critical errors left and right and the map refused to even load.
I'm hoping to do a comprehensive spark editor tutorial at some point, which will hopefully explain all the problems and workarounds for the different issues it has.