One of the things I hate most about NS2 is that there is no longer visual indicators on the onscreen icons as to how far away from you they are. They have added a (33 meters) thing, but it takes FAR more mental effort to work out how far away 33 meters is than it does to see "this circle is big, the thing is close". Additionally, I feel it was a bad design decision to put markers on screen for things that are behind you. It's not just way off to the skirt of the screen, we're talking about half way between the edge of the screen and the middle of the screen. I don't want an acceleration estimation gauge of what direction things are in, I want a line drawn between me and the thing you're indicating to me, and the icon placed where that line intersects my field of view. Knowing precisely what direction a point of interest is and instantly identifying how far away it is, is FAR less confusing and WAY WAY more useful to my decision making.
This is true of marine waypoints, and everything on alien hive sight except parasited marines.
This whole system has seen MASSIVE backwards progress since NS1. I really hope they gut it and replace with a more intuitive system. I've personally been confused by commander order requests in NS2, and I've seen many new players even more confused than I've been.
<!--quoteo(post=2011740:date=Nov 5 2012, 11:52 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Nov 5 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2011740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Doesn't it strike you as slightly weird though, in a game called Natural Selection, that the aliens evolve towards a less functional hivemind ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If folding a map in an instant as a clawed quadruped isn't evolution, I'm not sure what is.
Linking this to a related subject.... I miss the old Hive Sight too I guess. If the Hive Sight was extremely informative and the minimap for the Aliens wasn't, but Hive Sight didn't show up at all with Alien vision on, that would be a really good incentive to not use Alien vision all the time (and you wouldn't have to look at the map as much either).
I've been playing combat recently, and it has nothing to do with the COD crowd. It is just the style of the gameplay that really ruins the feel I get with classic NS maps.
This is just my opinion, but I am not a big fan. Great work on the mod though, in such a short time. I am extremely impressed.
<!--quoteo(post=2011828:date=Nov 6 2012, 12:47 AM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ Nov 6 2012, 12:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2011828"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If folding a map in an instant as a clawed quadruped isn't evolution, I'm not sure what is.
Linking this to a related subject.... I miss the old Hive Sight too I guess. If the Hive Sight was extremely informative and the minimap for the Aliens wasn't, but Hive Sight didn't show up at all with Alien vision on, that would be a really good incentive to not use Alien vision all the time (and you wouldn't have to look at the map as much either).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant as an evolution between NS1 and NS2. Minimap also was in NS1. Most evolutions I feel can be explained somehow (for example, marine weaponry became stronger, therefore aliens needed thicker hides, which is why the skulk feels so damn slow) but I'm not sure why they'd lose one of their more advanced communication traits.
I think the removed features should be reintroduced onto the Gorge. Hive teleport? Movement Chamber. Give it to the Gorge. Hivesight sweep structure? <b><i>Sensory Chamber</i></b>. Give it to the Gorge. Remove limitation on Hydras. Increase resource cost. Oh yeah, let Gorges use their pres to construct lifeform eggs for other players on their team. Two birds, one stone, y'know?
<!--quoteo(post=2011738:date=Nov 5 2012, 10:51 PM:name=BootyPoppin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BootyPoppin @ Nov 5 2012, 10:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2011738"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A lot of these things existed in the beta which has been on going for quite some time. Stop acting like it's a new game with mysterious problems that just arose on release.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but now there are 1000% more 'playtesters' than beta... are you saying that they don't count when it comes to opinions on the game?
to be honest, i had absolutely no clue that NS2 was even in development - let alone nearing release. i just happened to randomly see a tf2 player twitch stream and he was playing a cool looking game at midnight on oct 30th. i had to search 'kharaa' to even know that it was natural selection, at first i even thought it could have been halo 4.
anyway, you took my comment out of context - the guy said he wanted 'epic 2 hour redroom fights', well.... i didn't play NS1, but i doubt you had many monumental 'epic' games in the first week of release.
I think hivesight was nerfed to give drifters a purpose. The whole repurposing of drifters felt kinda like Charlie would rather not abandon the assets and hastily invented a new job for them. IMHO gorges should lay/spit drifters on to a surface but that's another story. It has kind of worked out, except that drifters can pretty easily be discovered by spraying bullets at the expected height and locations (another reason why they should be handed over to gorges).
On a semi-related topic...
"Get their obs!" "Where?" "It's in the corner!" "Which corner?" "Nevermind, beacon."
"They have a phase gate in crossroads but be careful of the sentries"
"Can somebody scout the east side of the map to see which extractors they have?" "They have flight and crevice is damaged"
<b>Bring back parasite on buildings! It will remove so much unnecessary voice comms!</b>
It also gives the skulks something useful to do for the team by way of reconnaissance!
Also why the ###### do props show up the same orange colour as marines? Seriously, is that like a legacy thing for map debugging?! It make absolutely no sense. If it is intended as a way to trick/nerf/distract alien vision, it's really an odd choice.
<!--quoteo(post=2012616:date=Nov 6 2012, 08:14 AM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 6 2012, 08:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but now there are 1000% more 'playtesters' than beta... are you saying that they don't count when it comes to opinions on the game?
to be honest, i had absolutely no clue that NS2 was even in development - let alone nearing release. i just happened to randomly see a tf2 player twitch stream and he was playing a cool looking game at midnight on oct 30th. i had to search 'kharaa' to even know that it was natural selection, at first i even thought it could have been halo 4.
anyway, you took my comment out of context - the guy said he wanted 'epic 2 hour redroom fights', well.... i didn't play NS1, but i doubt you had many monumental 'epic' games in the first week of release.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We did actually. It was not uncommon for NS1 games to pass the 30 minute mark. In fact, only high skill games took 30 mins or less. Most pub games averaged about an hour.
I don't think this is the problem with NS2, length of round isn't the issue, it's the fact that a lot of features have been replaced, like hive sight, with inferior ones.
UWE has my support. As an indie dev myself, I know how much time and effort it takes to make a game. But as an NS1 guy who played NS religiously for about two years, I think the ship is steering in the wrong direction, and I'd very much like to see it turn around :-)
Yeh I knew there was something missing from aliens from NS1. I found playing as aliens much more disorientating that marines.
People saying it's easy to press the c button. Yes it is, but you have to press the c button, find your tiny little blur triangle, then find where the problem/marine is, then decide where to go. That does take several seconds. And when you next get lost you have to do the same thing all over again.
The beauty of NS1 was that you could just head for the waypoint when a structure or hive was under attack. Just had to follow your nose. Ok it might not be the most optimum route, and you might bump into marines, but at least you knew where to head.
This is coming from someone who barely played the beta, but spent far too long playing NS1. Undoubtedly things will improve as I settle in and learn the maps, but it just seems more clumsy/disorientating as it stands.
(Yes NS2 is NOT NS1, but why throw away things that might be useful, note I say might).
Due to the lack of Hivesight, on all games, I tend to roam around with my map open.
I got used to this, but it is nothing near as useful as having hivesight at the first place. As I got better at reading the map (lol), I announce marines etc... that I see on the map immediately via microphone. But as I've said, this is no substitute for hivesight. And actually, it is not the same thing. What hivesight provided is, a simple direction, to simply put it. What I do (announcing where enemies are / which RT is under attack) still requires aliens to open their map and find their direction.
<!--quoteo(post=2012634:date=Nov 6 2012, 01:44 PM:name=Khyron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Khyron @ Nov 6 2012, 01:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think hivesight was nerfed to give drifters a purpose. The whole repurposing of drifters felt kinda like Charlie would rather not abandon the assets and hastily invented a new job for them. IMHO gorges should lay/spit drifters on to a surface but that's another story. It has kind of worked out, except that drifters can pretty easily be discovered by spraying bullets at the expected height and locations (another reason why they should be handed over to gorges).
On a semi-related topic...
"Get their obs!" "Where?" "It's in the corner!" "Which corner?" "Nevermind, beacon."
"They have a phase gate in crossroads but be careful of the sentries"
"Can somebody scout the east side of the map to see which extractors they have?" "They have flight and crevice is damaged"
<b>Bring back parasite on buildings! It will remove so much unnecessary voice comms!</b>
It also gives the skulks something useful to do for the team by way of reconnaissance!
Also why the ###### do props show up the same orange colour as marines? Seriously, is that like a legacy thing for map debugging?! It make absolutely no sense. If it is intended as a way to trick/nerf/distract alien vision, it's really an odd choice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
don't the buildings already show on the map as long as something is in LoS of it... what exactly is hive sight? seeing buildings through walls?
maybe it was dropped to reduce clutter on screen, imagine you're duelling a marine somewhere and to your left you have the marine main base highlighted through a wall and to your right you have a staging area highlighted through the wall... i find it hard enough already to improvise wall jumps etc without loads of random crap on screen which i can get by pressing C.
also, what's stopping the commander from throwing down a 'threat' beacon on top of a priority building etc... i'm not familiar with old hivesight, but a lot of the arguments to 'fix' it are basically "IT WAS IN NS1 GIVE IN NS2!!".
They need to give aliens a minimap, if nothing else, because I find myself trying to play with the overlay map up way too often, and it gets me killed.
<!--quoteo(post=2012735:date=Nov 6 2012, 10:25 AM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 6 2012, 10:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012735"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->don't the buildings already show on the map as long as something is in LoS of it... what exactly is hive sight? seeing buildings through walls?
maybe it was dropped to reduce clutter on screen, imagine you're duelling a marine somewhere and to your left you have the marine main base highlighted through a wall and to your right you have a staging area highlighted through the wall... i find it hard enough already to improvise wall jumps etc without loads of random crap on screen which i can get by pressing C.
also, what's stopping the commander from throwing down a 'threat' beacon on top of a priority building etc... i'm not familiar with old hivesight, but a lot of the arguments to 'fix' it are basically "IT WAS IN NS1 GIVE IN NS2!!".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should look at old hive sight before you complain about it.
The reason people want it back is because it was better. Not because it was in NS1.
Fact is, NS1 did a lot of things better than NS2. People want those things back, fairly simple.
Old hive sight alerted you about your base being under attack, and highlighted the building itself. Same thing with lifeforms.
Look it up, its harder for me to explain than for you to watch a video. Everyone arguing for it knows what it is, you're arguing against it when you don't even know what hive sight did. That seems highly illogical to me.
<!--quoteo(post=2012760:date=Nov 6 2012, 03:40 PM:name=Rico1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rico1 @ Nov 6 2012, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012760"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You should look at old hive sight before you complain about it.
The reason people want it back is because it was better. Not because it was in NS1.
Fact is, NS1 did a lot of things better than NS2. People want those things back, fairly simple.
Old hive sight alerted you about your base being under attack, and highlighted the building itself. Same thing with lifeforms.
Look it up, its harder for me to explain than for you to watch a video. Everyone arguing for it knows what it is, you're arguing against it when you don't even know what hive sight did. That seems highly illogical to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
when it says 'our hive is under attack', i get a health bar appear on my screen saying 'flight control shade hive 98%' etc. what exactly is different? do i need to press 'c' to look at the map to know where flight control is? not if i knew the map i wouldn't, the only reason i don't know the map is because i've only played it for about 5 rounds.
maybe marines get the same information and therefore it's alien don't get a sufficient 'hive sight' advantage... i don't know. but what i do know is that it's far from a whine-worthy issue. it's not such an essential feature that everything else should be f&&&ed to one side to put it in the game, for sure.
hive sight gives alien wallhacks versus marines, marines certainly don't get that unless you have an observatory in range or to a lesser extent an exosuit.
<!--quoteo(post=2012444:date=Nov 6 2012, 05:05 AM:name=MuckyMcFly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuckyMcFly @ Nov 6 2012, 05:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012444"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2 is not NS1 - sorry.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It kind of is, though. I honestly was expecting a lot more "new" than we got. Where are all the new units / evolutions?
To me, NS to NS2 feels like pre-NS 3.0 to post-NS 3.0. Lots of balance changes, but not really a sequel (outside of the much prettier engine, of course).
<!--quoteo(post=2012777:date=Nov 6 2012, 10:58 AM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 6 2012, 10:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012777"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->when it says 'our hive is under attack', i get a health bar appear on my screen saying 'flight control shade hive 98%' etc. what exactly is different? do i need to press 'c' to look at the map to know where flight control is? not if i knew the map i wouldn't, the only reason i don't know the map is because i've only played it for about 5 rounds.
maybe marines get the same information and therefore it's alien don't get a sufficient 'hive sight' advantage... i don't know. but what i do know is that it's far from a whine-worthy issue. it's not such an essential feature that everything else should be f&&&ed to one side to put it in the game, for sure.
hive sight gives alien wallhacks versus marines, marines certainly don't get that unless you have an observatory in range or to a lesser extent an exosuit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In NS1 you would see an icon on your screen showing you where the hive(or any other structure or player) was that was under attack. No need to look at the minimap. They should at least bring that much back, it's just about communicating information to the player in a helpful way. I also don't see any reason for the range on seeing parasited marines to be limited. Finally I agree that structure parasites should come back. Maybe make the color a little more dull so it doesn't stand out too much to clutter the screen.
<!--quoteo(post=2011394:date=Nov 6 2012, 05:23 AM:name=Davil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Davil @ Nov 6 2012, 05:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2011394"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't find pressing c too difficult.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^ This
* press 'c' * oh in Flow Control? * run like a madman knowing the map layout * press 'c' just before getting there and see 5 blue figures moving about and only 1 other skullk * 'oh ######' moment kicks in but I go for it anyway
<!--quoteo(post=2013682:date=Nov 7 2012, 01:04 AM:name=Daworm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daworm @ Nov 7 2012, 01:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013682"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->^ This
* press 'c' * oh in Flow Control? * run like a madman knowing the map layout * press 'c' just before getting there and see 5 blue figures moving about and only 1 other skullk * 'oh ######' moment kicks in but I go for it anyway<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No one's asking for that to go away completely. But for new players, and even experienced players, can we have other visual indicators so we don't have to do it so frequently that it's beyond annoying. I came into NS2 without previous experience on the maps. There are some confusing areas, I often have to press the map just to get from room to room because I quickly lose orientation of what direction I'm even facing.
I'm not an inexperienced player of FPS game, nor of NS, I played on a CAL team for 2 seasons. I feel bad for the any person who has to play alien and HASN'T figured out what the "c" hotkey does yet. God knows, it's not exactly like it flashes a big super-memorable warning! "by the way, you're an alien, you are supposed to play this game while having the popup map up 50% of the time"
I can understand experienced players getting used to it, but honestly, it's just outright bad design, I REALLY don't feel anyone should be defending this with anything but "they'll probably change this to be more intuitive later". Because if UWE honestly just doesn't care about this, it's actually extremely maddening.
Make structures that are under attack quickly flicker red on the mini-map, instead of this slow fade into transparency deal. Nothing is drawing my eyes to where the attention needs to be currently.
While there's no end for the excuses as to why you don't <i>have</i> to have Hivesight, can anyone actually name any reasons as to how its exclusion benefits the game at all? What was gained by removing it? What aspect of player enjoyment was made better?
The maximap is just a workaround for a problem that never should've existed in the first place.
I agree and disagree on what's been said here. Most of it infact.. I have a split opinion about the hivesight being 'gone'-perse. However. The Kharaa commander should be fully able to check the map at all time's. I mean. you can clearly hear where people are moving around, and in what direction they are running. Not only that. You can also see cloud's where they are running, and when an alien spot them, you can see them bright as day as a commander. Seing as the Alien race Kharaa now has a commander, it's also up to him, to relay information to his team.
If the team doesn't know the map, that's not his fault. People should be able to hold their own, and push their own weight in this game. Tactics in general doesn't win you the game. But strategy does. How you use it, is entierly up to you.
And only people prepare to be fired upon, should be allowed to fire.
<!--quoteo(post=2012634:date=Nov 6 2012, 03:44 PM:name=Khyron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Khyron @ Nov 6 2012, 03:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Bring back parasite on buildings! It will remove so much unnecessary voice comms!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^ This! We don't need the old hive sight. We just need back the ability to parasite buildings and also it should stick to the marine until he hugs an armory. With glancing bites, parasite has become nearly useless. Bring back some old glory and usefulness for skulks.
If buildings would cluster up the view to much, make them only visible on the map. Problem solved. Also Give aliens another color than marines, or ideally color marines in percentage of health left. From green to red. So you see a weak target fast.
Comments
Doesn't it strike you as slightly weird though, in a game called Natural Selection, that the aliens evolve towards a less functional hivemind ?
This is true of marine waypoints, and everything on alien hive sight except parasited marines.
This whole system has seen MASSIVE backwards progress since NS1. I really hope they gut it and replace with a more intuitive system. I've personally been confused by commander order requests in NS2, and I've seen many new players even more confused than I've been.
If folding a map in an instant as a clawed quadruped isn't evolution, I'm not sure what is.
Linking this to a related subject.... I miss the old Hive Sight too I guess. If the Hive Sight was extremely informative and the minimap for the Aliens wasn't, but Hive Sight didn't show up at all with Alien vision on, that would be a really good incentive to not use Alien vision all the time (and you wouldn't have to look at the map as much either).
This is just my opinion, but I am not a big fan. Great work on the mod though, in such a short time. I am extremely impressed.
Linking this to a related subject.... I miss the old Hive Sight too I guess. If the Hive Sight was extremely informative and the minimap for the Aliens wasn't, but Hive Sight didn't show up at all with Alien vision on, that would be a really good incentive to not use Alien vision all the time (and you wouldn't have to look at the map as much either).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant as an evolution between NS1 and NS2. Minimap also was in NS1.
Most evolutions I feel can be explained somehow (for example, marine weaponry became stronger, therefore aliens needed thicker hides, which is why the skulk feels so damn slow) but I'm not sure why they'd lose one of their more advanced communication traits.
Hive sight removed with the pheromone system, hence the outlines.
NS2 is not NS1 - sorry.
Lets all bring back bile bomb on lerks.... (sorry jumping on the winge wagon) ;-) x
but now there are 1000% more 'playtesters' than beta... are you saying that they don't count when it comes to opinions on the game?
to be honest, i had absolutely no clue that NS2 was even in development - let alone nearing release. i just happened to randomly see a tf2 player twitch stream and he was playing a cool looking game at midnight on oct 30th. i had to search 'kharaa' to even know that it was natural selection, at first i even thought it could have been halo 4.
anyway, you took my comment out of context - the guy said he wanted 'epic 2 hour redroom fights', well.... i didn't play NS1, but i doubt you had many monumental 'epic' games in the first week of release.
On a semi-related topic...
"Get their obs!"
"Where?"
"It's in the corner!"
"Which corner?"
"Nevermind, beacon."
"They have a phase gate in crossroads but be careful of the sentries"
"Can somebody scout the east side of the map to see which extractors they have?"
"They have flight and crevice is damaged"
<b>Bring back parasite on buildings! It will remove so much unnecessary voice comms!</b>
It also gives the skulks something useful to do for the team by way of reconnaissance!
Also why the ###### do props show up the same orange colour as marines? Seriously, is that like a legacy thing for map debugging?! It make absolutely no sense. If it is intended as a way to trick/nerf/distract alien vision, it's really an odd choice.
to be honest, i had absolutely no clue that NS2 was even in development - let alone nearing release. i just happened to randomly see a tf2 player twitch stream and he was playing a cool looking game at midnight on oct 30th. i had to search 'kharaa' to even know that it was natural selection, at first i even thought it could have been halo 4.
anyway, you took my comment out of context - the guy said he wanted 'epic 2 hour redroom fights', well.... i didn't play NS1, but i doubt you had many monumental 'epic' games in the first week of release.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We did actually. It was not uncommon for NS1 games to pass the 30 minute mark. In fact, only high skill games took 30 mins or less. Most pub games averaged about an hour.
I don't think this is the problem with NS2, length of round isn't the issue, it's the fact that a lot of features have been replaced, like hive sight, with inferior ones.
UWE has my support. As an indie dev myself, I know how much time and effort it takes to make a game. But as an NS1 guy who played NS religiously for about two years, I think the ship is steering in the wrong direction, and I'd very much like to see it turn around :-)
People saying it's easy to press the c button. Yes it is, but you have to press the c button, find your tiny little blur triangle, then find where the problem/marine is, then decide where to go. That does take several seconds. And when you next get lost you have to do the same thing all over again.
The beauty of NS1 was that you could just head for the waypoint when a structure or hive was under attack. Just had to follow your nose. Ok it might not be the most optimum route, and you might bump into marines, but at least you knew where to head.
This is coming from someone who barely played the beta, but spent far too long playing NS1. Undoubtedly things will improve as I settle in and learn the maps, but it just seems more clumsy/disorientating as it stands.
(Yes NS2 is NOT NS1, but why throw away things that might be useful, note I say might).
I got used to this, but it is nothing near as useful as having hivesight at the first place. As I got better at reading the map (lol), I announce marines etc... that I see on the map immediately via microphone. But as I've said, this is no substitute for hivesight. And actually, it is not the same thing. What hivesight provided is, a simple direction, to simply put it. What I do (announcing where enemies are / which RT is under attack) still requires aliens to open their map and find their direction.
On a semi-related topic...
"Get their obs!"
"Where?"
"It's in the corner!"
"Which corner?"
"Nevermind, beacon."
"They have a phase gate in crossroads but be careful of the sentries"
"Can somebody scout the east side of the map to see which extractors they have?"
"They have flight and crevice is damaged"
<b>Bring back parasite on buildings! It will remove so much unnecessary voice comms!</b>
It also gives the skulks something useful to do for the team by way of reconnaissance!
Also why the ###### do props show up the same orange colour as marines? Seriously, is that like a legacy thing for map debugging?! It make absolutely no sense. If it is intended as a way to trick/nerf/distract alien vision, it's really an odd choice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
don't the buildings already show on the map as long as something is in LoS of it... what exactly is hive sight? seeing buildings through walls?
maybe it was dropped to reduce clutter on screen, imagine you're duelling a marine somewhere and to your left you have the marine main base highlighted through a wall and to your right you have a staging area highlighted through the wall... i find it hard enough already to improvise wall jumps etc without loads of random crap on screen which i can get by pressing C.
also, what's stopping the commander from throwing down a 'threat' beacon on top of a priority building etc... i'm not familiar with old hivesight, but a lot of the arguments to 'fix' it are basically "IT WAS IN NS1 GIVE IN NS2!!".
maybe it was dropped to reduce clutter on screen, imagine you're duelling a marine somewhere and to your left you have the marine main base highlighted through a wall and to your right you have a staging area highlighted through the wall... i find it hard enough already to improvise wall jumps etc without loads of random crap on screen which i can get by pressing C.
also, what's stopping the commander from throwing down a 'threat' beacon on top of a priority building etc... i'm not familiar with old hivesight, but a lot of the arguments to 'fix' it are basically "IT WAS IN NS1 GIVE IN NS2!!".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should look at old hive sight before you complain about it.
The reason people want it back is because it was better. Not because it was in NS1.
Fact is, NS1 did a lot of things better than NS2. People want those things back, fairly simple.
Old hive sight alerted you about your base being under attack, and highlighted the building itself. Same thing with lifeforms.
Look it up, its harder for me to explain than for you to watch a video. Everyone arguing for it knows what it is, you're arguing against it when you don't even know what hive sight did. That seems highly illogical to me.
The reason people want it back is because it was better. Not because it was in NS1.
Fact is, NS1 did a lot of things better than NS2. People want those things back, fairly simple.
Old hive sight alerted you about your base being under attack, and highlighted the building itself. Same thing with lifeforms.
Look it up, its harder for me to explain than for you to watch a video. Everyone arguing for it knows what it is, you're arguing against it when you don't even know what hive sight did. That seems highly illogical to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
when it says 'our hive is under attack', i get a health bar appear on my screen saying 'flight control shade hive 98%' etc. what exactly is different? do i need to press 'c' to look at the map to know where flight control is? not if i knew the map i wouldn't, the only reason i don't know the map is because i've only played it for about 5 rounds.
maybe marines get the same information and therefore it's alien don't get a sufficient 'hive sight' advantage... i don't know. but what i do know is that it's far from a whine-worthy issue. it's not such an essential feature that everything else should be f&&&ed to one side to put it in the game, for sure.
hive sight gives alien wallhacks versus marines, marines certainly don't get that unless you have an observatory in range or to a lesser extent an exosuit.
It kind of is, though. I honestly was expecting a lot more "new" than we got. Where are all the new units / evolutions?
To me, NS to NS2 feels like pre-NS 3.0 to post-NS 3.0. Lots of balance changes, but not really a sequel (outside of the much prettier engine, of course).
maybe marines get the same information and therefore it's alien don't get a sufficient 'hive sight' advantage... i don't know. but what i do know is that it's far from a whine-worthy issue. it's not such an essential feature that everything else should be f&&&ed to one side to put it in the game, for sure.
hive sight gives alien wallhacks versus marines, marines certainly don't get that unless you have an observatory in range or to a lesser extent an exosuit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In NS1 you would see an icon on your screen showing you where the hive(or any other structure or player) was that was under attack. No need to look at the minimap. They should at least bring that much back, it's just about communicating information to the player in a helpful way. I also don't see any reason for the range on seeing parasited marines to be limited. Finally I agree that structure parasites should come back. Maybe make the color a little more dull so it doesn't stand out too much to clutter the screen.
^
This
* press 'c'
* oh in Flow Control?
* run like a madman knowing the map layout
* press 'c' just before getting there and see 5 blue figures moving about and only 1 other skullk
* 'oh ######' moment kicks in but I go for it anyway
This
* press 'c'
* oh in Flow Control?
* run like a madman knowing the map layout
* press 'c' just before getting there and see 5 blue figures moving about and only 1 other skullk
* 'oh ######' moment kicks in but I go for it anyway<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one's asking for that to go away completely. But for new players, and even experienced players, can we have other visual indicators so we don't have to do it so frequently that it's beyond annoying. I came into NS2 without previous experience on the maps. There are some confusing areas, I often have to press the map just to get from room to room because I quickly lose orientation of what direction I'm even facing.
I'm not an inexperienced player of FPS game, nor of NS, I played on a CAL team for 2 seasons. I feel bad for the any person who has to play alien and HASN'T figured out what the "c" hotkey does yet. God knows, it's not exactly like it flashes a big super-memorable warning! "by the way, you're an alien, you are supposed to play this game while having the popup map up 50% of the time"
I can understand experienced players getting used to it, but honestly, it's just outright bad design, I REALLY don't feel anyone should be defending this with anything but "they'll probably change this to be more intuitive later". Because if UWE honestly just doesn't care about this, it's actually extremely maddening.
The maximap is just a workaround for a problem that never should've existed in the first place.
Most of it infact.. I have a split opinion about the hivesight being 'gone'-perse.
However. The Kharaa commander should be fully able to check the map at all time's. I mean.
you can clearly hear where people are moving around, and in what direction they are running.
Not only that. You can also see cloud's where they are running, and when an alien spot them, you can see them bright as day as a commander. Seing as the Alien race Kharaa now has a commander, it's also up to him, to relay information to his team.
If the team doesn't know the map, that's not his fault.
People should be able to hold their own, and push their own weight in this game.
Tactics in general doesn't win you the game. But strategy does.
How you use it, is entierly up to you.
And only people prepare to be fired upon, should be allowed to fire.
^ This! We don't need the old hive sight. We just need back the ability to parasite buildings and also it should stick to the marine until he hugs an armory. With glancing bites, parasite has become nearly useless. Bring back some old glory and usefulness for skulks.
If buildings would cluster up the view to much, make them only visible on the map. Problem solved.
Also Give aliens another color than marines, or ideally color marines in percentage of health left. From green to red. So you see a weak target fast.