late game aliens boring
unkind
Join Date: 2012-02-04 Member: 143563Members
Join Date: 2012-02-04 Member: 143563Members
Has anyone else noticed the most effective way to win pubs is onos, onos, onos, onos, onos, the more onos the better. Even the competitive scene just rushes onos eggs because NOTHING, even more evolutions is more effective.
One guy able to use umbra PERFECTLY is probably just barely better than another onos. There is absolutely no reason to go skulk or fade when you can go onos.
On marine a line of exos gets murdered by all kinds of stuff, lerks hiding, onos totally destroys them, gorge can kill them etc. SO, the marines don't all go exo, they get some JP GLs, some JP shotties, and everybody gets a welder, they do a nice team push. It's more effective than herr derr line of exos
Now, you might say: "BUT ONOS SUCK ALONE U NEED SUPPORT!". No, you don't, the effective dps and speed of an onos, and the fact that you can hit jetpackers with like, no problem whatsoever makes them 100% the best unit to use in 90% of the situations if you have enough resources. This is BORING. Fades are garbage compared to onos and they're almost as expensive, wha the hell man.
a3 w3 JP shotty marine > fade, you can kill the fade faster than he can kill you, I don't understand why this is okay... lol
TLDR: Aliens are _WAY_ too linear, and people who haven't played as much as me might not notice it yet, but you will soon ><
Simple solutions to this: increase effectiveness of xeno, let aliens get res while dead, increase fade hp/armor by an effective value of 100+, increase lerk effective hp/armor, reduce lerk size, reduce skulk size, add FOCUS?, let hydras scale somehow, let EVOLUTIONS scale per hive, i dunno, something.
One guy able to use umbra PERFECTLY is probably just barely better than another onos. There is absolutely no reason to go skulk or fade when you can go onos.
On marine a line of exos gets murdered by all kinds of stuff, lerks hiding, onos totally destroys them, gorge can kill them etc. SO, the marines don't all go exo, they get some JP GLs, some JP shotties, and everybody gets a welder, they do a nice team push. It's more effective than herr derr line of exos
Now, you might say: "BUT ONOS SUCK ALONE U NEED SUPPORT!". No, you don't, the effective dps and speed of an onos, and the fact that you can hit jetpackers with like, no problem whatsoever makes them 100% the best unit to use in 90% of the situations if you have enough resources. This is BORING. Fades are garbage compared to onos and they're almost as expensive, wha the hell man.
a3 w3 JP shotty marine > fade, you can kill the fade faster than he can kill you, I don't understand why this is okay... lol
TLDR: Aliens are _WAY_ too linear, and people who haven't played as much as me might not notice it yet, but you will soon ><
Simple solutions to this: increase effectiveness of xeno, let aliens get res while dead, increase fade hp/armor by an effective value of 100+, increase lerk effective hp/armor, reduce lerk size, reduce skulk size, add FOCUS?, let hydras scale somehow, let EVOLUTIONS scale per hive, i dunno, something.
Comments
Until the marines go back to the armory..
Yep, three/five alien classes that rely on hit and run are hard-countered by the Armory.
It doesn't help that Shotguns are ridiculous as well.
So hopefully they'll be adding some of that stuff in some big content updates. [Babblers, Bone Shield, Gorge Web, Encrust, infestation tubes, and hopefully Fade Acid Rocket.]
Except we spend more time regenerating health than we do attacking on NS2 than we did NS1 (which is why NS1 Metabolize even existed).
It's a pain in the ass.
and that's when there's only one marine and he doesn't have a shotgun, otherwise lategame you can't even give them a bad noogie, you literally die within less then a second after appearing, fade late game are absolutly useless against relatively good marines with a cheap shotgun that can be picked up after their death anyway. In NS1 to counter that lategame weakness there was 2 things :
1. The main attack damage upgrade which made it slower but deal more dmg so that the hit'n'run tactic woudl actually be efficient
2. (and most important imo) the possibility to shoot some acid bombs in a straight line, allowing fade to deal some dmg from afar before engaging
Fades are still good early/mid game though but they're totally worthless lategame contrary to gorges or even skulks (which can still be useful to ninja some res point or force a beaconing)
(i don't really like vortex, the only use i found to it was to block a beacon while destroying it, preventing marines to teleport back there and kick my ass but i'm not sure it's worth the res spent to research it)
It's a pain in the ass.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A fair point :)
Quick-slash! Armor is down!
Now retreat to heal... (While Marine heals his armor)
Awesome skills shown? Check! Positive effect? Not check...?
How about we give Aliens a way to scale. Homogenize it if you want. I don't really care. Give aliens armor/weapon upgrades. or give them focus.
Marines can get W2/A2 off one CC. Wat? Surely wish Aliens could get that kind of power off one hive. Nah, they get one ability. And apparently, that ability makes them scale according to some. (Probably Marine only players, who think winrate is everything)
So, I'll let you keep thinking Aliens are fine due to Onos (and only Onos, maybe Skulk rushes too) keeping an even winrate between the two sides. But it's a reliance that Alien players shouldn't want. There should be trade offs between Onos, Lerk, Fade, and Gorge. Not one strictly better than any other, and thus should not be bought as it is a waste of res when in 25 res you can get an Onos.
The poster I quoted compared Fades to assassins. Except assassins tend to go for the vitals, rather than tweaking your nose and beating a hasty getaway.
The poster I quoted compared Fades to assassins. Except assassins tend to go for the vitals, rather than tweaking your nose and beating a hasty getaway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh yeah i know i was just trying to add a bit on the thoughts of why fade are bad lategame, i edited my post to make it a bit more clear (apologies for any misunderstanding, i'm not a native english speaker)
Marines can get W2/A2 off one CC. Wat? Surely wish Aliens could get that kind of power off one hive. Nah, they get one ability. And apparently, that ability makes them scale according to some. (Probably Marine only players, who think winrate is everything)
So, I'll let you keep thinking Aliens are fine due to Onos (and only Onos, maybe Skulk rushes too) keeping an even winrate between the two sides. But it's a reliance that Alien players shouldn't want. There should be trade offs between Onos, Lerk, Fade, and Gorge. Not one strictly better than any other, and thus should not be bought as it is a waste of res when in 25 res you can get an Onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the Onos is fine as it is now, it is the epitome of the Alien evolution tree and should be tough to deal with. But there have been several threads that somewhat touch this, and I agree that Onos should not be the only endgame strategy; right now it is the only effective one when you're dealing with fully upgraded marines. The tradeoff should be that it is expensive, and it already costs more in pres than an exosuit (last I checked anyway), and that would probably mean removing onos eggs, or making them just as expensive to spawn with tres as it would be for a player to buy one (which would mean the Aliens would be set back significantly in expansion if they went for onos eggs early on).
And with that sort of change, I would love to see alternative endgame tactics. I would love to see other aliens with endgame builds that could go toe to toe with Marines, and then the original point of the game still sticks- whoever is better at coordinating attacks, fighting, and getting/keeping those upgrades.
Of course I've no idea where to start with balancing things out, there'd be nerfs and buffs on both sides in the forms of various tweaks to get it right. But a recurring theme seems to be the significant amount of whining that causes things to revert back. If that really is influencing UWE, it needs to be lashed out against. If the numbers and reasoning work out properly with the changes, then the ones complaining should have more than baseless complaints about how they can't skillfree their way to a win anymore. And if that really isn't what happened then correct me, but as its been described it really sounds like the worst of the community actually got their way.
I'd much rather see late-game tech become more glass-cannon-ey.
Aliens need more abilities so we have the same numbers or more as NS1
We need more traits and not the 2/3 we have right now
Also global upgrades and more commander diversity would also make aliens more funt o play