Refinery Map Balance
SgtThompson
Join Date: 2005-01-18 Member: 36340Members
Join Date: 2005-01-18 Member: 36340Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Alien bias?</div>I didn't have the opportunity to play the beta, but I've been playing after work non-stop since the release (and I've played the first NS extensively, but that's not relevant in this thread). The rest of the maps seem balanced, however refinery does not. In fact, I have yet to see the marine team win on that map.
The game typically plays like this:
The round starts, and within 20 seconds of spawning (about the time it takes for a few people to pop in, the commander to get into the chair and drop one structure) the marines have to deal with a massive skulk rush that kills a few marines and damages newly built structures. After that, the marines set out and attempt to find res. Unfortunately, by the time they reach any, the 2nd skulk rush comes in bypassing the marines and destroying structures. So, the marines have to abandon what they are doing (building the extractor) and return to defend the base. The com hasn't had enough time to research welders at this point. By the time the marines cap one node, the alien team already has 4 or more. And worse, these extractors are in a position that is difficult to defend and are lost repeatedly, and the rushes keep coming. This happens again and again until the alien team start rolling fades and onoses, and the round is ended rather quickly.
The alternate play-through: The alien team (for some reason) doesn't rush, and instead decide to play it safe. However, 2 resource nodes are practically sitting outside their front door, so the alien comm buildings that up right away. This dual node point is extremely difficult for the marines to capture and hold due to its proximity to the alien base and the fact that it takes 3 times longer for a marine to respond to an attack there than it does a skulk. So there's a rather large advantage to the alien team on resources early on. What makes matters worse is that there are two easily capture resource nodes on the right and left of the alien base. So, which the marines are struggling to capture and defend the 2 closest nodes, the aliens have 4 easily defended points to gain resources.
I'm not a map designer, so I don't know the best way to fix this. But, it is a problem that needs to be addressed. Perhaps this an issue of tactics that players will learn to overcome in time, however, it seems unlikely.
The game typically plays like this:
The round starts, and within 20 seconds of spawning (about the time it takes for a few people to pop in, the commander to get into the chair and drop one structure) the marines have to deal with a massive skulk rush that kills a few marines and damages newly built structures. After that, the marines set out and attempt to find res. Unfortunately, by the time they reach any, the 2nd skulk rush comes in bypassing the marines and destroying structures. So, the marines have to abandon what they are doing (building the extractor) and return to defend the base. The com hasn't had enough time to research welders at this point. By the time the marines cap one node, the alien team already has 4 or more. And worse, these extractors are in a position that is difficult to defend and are lost repeatedly, and the rushes keep coming. This happens again and again until the alien team start rolling fades and onoses, and the round is ended rather quickly.
The alternate play-through: The alien team (for some reason) doesn't rush, and instead decide to play it safe. However, 2 resource nodes are practically sitting outside their front door, so the alien comm buildings that up right away. This dual node point is extremely difficult for the marines to capture and hold due to its proximity to the alien base and the fact that it takes 3 times longer for a marine to respond to an attack there than it does a skulk. So there's a rather large advantage to the alien team on resources early on. What makes matters worse is that there are two easily capture resource nodes on the right and left of the alien base. So, which the marines are struggling to capture and defend the 2 closest nodes, the aliens have 4 easily defended points to gain resources.
I'm not a map designer, so I don't know the best way to fix this. But, it is a problem that needs to be addressed. Perhaps this an issue of tactics that players will learn to overcome in time, however, it seems unlikely.
Comments
The map feels... dead and bare. I think it's just an early version, or it was rushed to be released.
<i>As of now</i>, it's my least favorite map, but it could have potential if worked on alot more.
I can see the long corridor in Lava falls as a Marine advantage, however, it never helps in capping that point.
Also, the games I played, we always went either pipe or smelting first, and that's pretty much as far as any of the teams ever got. By that time we had such a res disadvantage that it was almost impossible to push out.
Maybe it would be better if the base locations would randomize. Maybe let the marines spawn on the other side sometimes.
Also, the games I played, we always went either pipe or smelting first, and that's pretty much as far as any of the teams ever got. By that time we had such a res disadvantage that it was almost impossible to push out.
Maybe it would be better if the base locations would randomize. Maybe let the marines spawn on the other side sometimes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lava Falls is the exception because Lerks rape, rape, rape, rape, Lava Falls.
I don't know if others suffer from this, but my fps drop quite a bit in this map.
This is why I love playing Refinery, because I get to play Lerk in an optimal environment especially when the hive is right next to it. Good game trying to cap a well played Lerk in there. It's an entirely different matter when Marines push from the sides and use Grenade launchers through all the long narrow corridors. I like the idea of having certain areas that are of benefit to either side. Players have to get used to the map and avoid areas where they are vulnerable.
Really? I've found as a marine that it's extremely easy to hold Lava falls, and from there it's trivial to walk into containment and shoot the hive.
Generally speaking thoughI agree it's not a well thought map - perhaps it'd be better if aliens started in Turbine and Lava falls were displaced slightly to the right (or the way there made slightly longer from marine start)
But, if you leave lava falls (which is almost required), you are handing the other team 2 nodes. That's a huge source of res. With all the rushing, however, it's extremely hard to make that up with either of res points on the sides.
No... you just sit and shoot the nodes from Pipeworks.
The close by marine res nodes are very hard to hold. I am not too familiar with the names yet, but there is that res nozzle in between the marine starting base and Smelting (transit?) which is almost impossible to hold. That one really long ventilation shaft that ends right next to that res nozzle just makes it too easy for skulks to take that marine extractor out over and over again. It's also quite some distance away from either Smelting or the marine starting base so that marines that move to engage the perpetrator take too long and can't save the extractor.
I remember one game that I was the marine commander on refinery and that one extractor was just never built because the alien players constantly kept going for it. At some point I just decided to abandon the nozzle, because it was costing us too much res. By that time the aliens had clear map control and multiple oni (or whatever plural you choose for onos), without us even reaching jetpacks. This kind of situation has repeated itself multiple times during the matches I played on refinery.