I don't believe aliens are underpowered
sharnrock
Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 166084Members
Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 166084Members
One huge advantage aliens have over the marines is the comm can continue building while the aliens are fighting.
This means all the skulks are out gnawing on nodes and get to move on, while the marines have to stay and build before they can continue to another location.
Onos can be had early in the game, I don't even think you need a 2nd hive to evolve one.
Without phase gates marines are super slow to respond.
With the aliens you only have to coordinate attacks. All the buildings are growing around you. It makes for pretty simple game play IMO.
The biggest disadvantage is if a player doesn't know the map really well, it becomes difficult to get anywhere fast.
If you know where all the vents are, responding to marines or hiding in a safe area gives you a big advantage.
I just think people are misinterpreting what you're supposed to do as an alien. I try to sneak around using the vents and take out unguarded locations as a skulk. I don't take on teams of marines (unless they're trying to take out a hive or an important node). I don't go on killing spree until I have enough p-res to evolve into a fade or onos. It takes the marines a long time to research 3 levels of weapons/armor, then research all the weapons in the armory and exosuits. You should be able to go fade before you see exosuits, and if you're taking out enough nodes, they should be starving for resources all game. it costs them a lot of resources just to rebuild and keep those extractors. This will also keep the marines that are rebuilding from being able to push forward further.
A lot of the game is about time management. If you take out a phase gate, the marines are going to have to trek there on foot. This means they're tied up doing nothing while you're either off attacking something else of finishing off an extractor. If you have productive team mates and a good comm, you should be able to win.
This means all the skulks are out gnawing on nodes and get to move on, while the marines have to stay and build before they can continue to another location.
Onos can be had early in the game, I don't even think you need a 2nd hive to evolve one.
Without phase gates marines are super slow to respond.
With the aliens you only have to coordinate attacks. All the buildings are growing around you. It makes for pretty simple game play IMO.
The biggest disadvantage is if a player doesn't know the map really well, it becomes difficult to get anywhere fast.
If you know where all the vents are, responding to marines or hiding in a safe area gives you a big advantage.
I just think people are misinterpreting what you're supposed to do as an alien. I try to sneak around using the vents and take out unguarded locations as a skulk. I don't take on teams of marines (unless they're trying to take out a hive or an important node). I don't go on killing spree until I have enough p-res to evolve into a fade or onos. It takes the marines a long time to research 3 levels of weapons/armor, then research all the weapons in the armory and exosuits. You should be able to go fade before you see exosuits, and if you're taking out enough nodes, they should be starving for resources all game. it costs them a lot of resources just to rebuild and keep those extractors. This will also keep the marines that are rebuilding from being able to push forward further.
A lot of the game is about time management. If you take out a phase gate, the marines are going to have to trek there on foot. This means they're tied up doing nothing while you're either off attacking something else of finishing off an extractor. If you have productive team mates and a good comm, you should be able to win.
Comments
The only problem I have with "marines being OP" is their ridiculous ability to turtle. You need 3-4 onosses to kill off a human lategame base.
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->Lerk<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> spores are very useful in cutting marine visibility so the skulks can come in and mop up the area. Or sweep through to gas a marines repairing exosuits. Lerks also get umbra which stops 50% of bullet damage.
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->Skulks<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> should wait for the bigger lifeforms to go first to assault an area, to pop in when the marines are distracted. Or if in the early game, wait for an ambush with other skulks.
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->Gorge<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> should healspray the front-line aliens to keep the marines in check, start placing hydras and clogs for added defense. Or help your alien commander expand quickly by heal spraying structures to help them grow.
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->Onos<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> can destroy mines with stomp, or immobilize marine players.
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->Fade<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> vortex is op and can stop beacons and disable infantry portals. You could also vortex an exosuit and have your team kill the rest of the marines.
That's a few of the common strategies that happened during the beta.
Fade vortex is op and can stop beacons and disable infantry portals. You could also vortex an exosuit and have your team kill the rest of the marines.
That's a few of the common strategies that happened during the beta.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never knew these...
Can you elaborate more on stomp? What's the range on that thing? Can marines 'jump' to avoid stomps? All these strategies are 3-hive strategies right, since the abilities require 3 hives to be activated?
I disagree with that, Vortex only lasts a few seconds and uses a hell of a lot of energy (half your energy pool?) It was OP with old adrenaline, but now if you use it twice you can't blink out. I agree with everything else though, and I for one did not know about the Onos stomp (rarely play it anyway).
Can you elaborate more on stomp? What's the range on that thing? Can marines 'jump' to avoid stomps? All these strategies are 3-hive strategies right, since the abilities require 3 hives to be activated?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure on the specifics, but the range should be determined by the stomp effect and marines could jump over stomps at some point in the beta.
The third hive abilities are. [Xenocide, Umbra, Vortex, and Stomp]
So yes, most of those were late game strategies. Early game is more about diversionary tactics and mid game is about 2nd hive lerk spores.
The early game in ns2 is really short for some reason or another.
<!--quoteo(post=2009837:date=Nov 4 2012, 12:50 PM:name=azurescorch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (azurescorch @ Nov 4 2012, 12:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009837"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree with that, Vortex only lasts a few seconds and uses a hell of a lot of energy (half your energy pool?) It was OP with old adrenaline, but now if you use it twice you can't blink out. I agree with everything else though, and I for one did not know about the Onos stomp (rarely play it anyway).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's only op for the reasons I've stated. No other reason to use it currently.
I completely agree... I think that's why there are so many QQ threads for the aliens, one hot enough to garner more than 100+ pages worth of discussion. The aliens just feel like they could use so many quality of life improvements (over the marines) that it doesn't feel like there is really anything to complain when you're playing as the marines. Marine first world problems even if there are lol.
Darn, I've been mistaken for a while then. When was it removed exactly? I just thought people forgot about it, instead of myself forgetting that it was removed.
Shows how much I've been playing Onos.
<u><b>Step1:</b></u> Start off with fast carapace or celerity and skulk rush
<u><b>Step2:</b></u> Everyone goes lerk the moment they get 30 res and harasses every location on the map at once
<u><b>Step3:</b></u> Onos + Gorge Rush for the coop de grace
Did this on one server earlier today with a friend when we had full cooperation from aliens. . . Onos got stuck in a wall and Marines were still in tears when the hydras dropped
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They "feel" underpowered because they are.
-Lerks and Fades can be soloed by a good marine with a shotgun, easy. Lerk and Fade are hit and run classes which were extremely effective in NS1 because marines had to weld eachother. With the Armory restoring armor they have lost most of their utility and are pretty much used for picking off lone marines hitting RTs.
-Skulk speed needs to be increased and movement in general improved but I think he's in a good place other than that.
-Gorge and Onos are perfect at the moment in my opinion. I would like to see more Gorge structures but other than that, they are powerful.
-Observatories completely counter Shades. Camoflauge is a useless upgrade because of this. You can't cloak into any marine base and the commander can scan anywhere on the map and reveal you.
-Remove Camoflauge, bring back Focus. Anywhere you can actually Cloak there is normally a Shade anyway.
-Shades are fine.
-Shifts are fine.
-Crags suck. It takes at least 3 Crags for them to be worth a ######.
-Silence is fine.
-Carapace is fine.
-Regeneration is fine.
-Celerity is fine although I think it should work in combat.
-Adrenaline is underpowered. Give it an out of combat energy regen or something.
-All Alien lifeform abilities are tied to the second hive. The only useful abilty you can have with one hive is Celerity. This is a big big big big problem. I think all abilities on the second hive should be moved to the first and the second hive can be used to research some new abilities (Web? Primal Scream? Metabolize? Maybe move Umbra to hive 2?). Leave abilities like Stomp, Vortex, and Xenocide on Hive 3 as they can be very very powerful (especially Stomp).
-Onos Egg spam can get out of hand some games but at the moment it's the only way to end a 10+ minute game.
On the Marine side though?
-Flamethrowers need a buff. Maybe a slight one, but throw them something.
-I don't think maybe people have learned how to use ARCs and Exos effectively yet. Exos come out and 6/12 people buy one, rambo off, and die. Most commanders also haven't learned good ARC spots yet. Most seem to think they can just send 10 ARCs into a hive and win.
-GLs need to be nerfed. They destroy 4/5 of the alien lifeforms. They are mostly just used for shooting at other marine's feet or doorways. Their damage VS structures is fine but the damage against players is pretty staggering.
-If we ever get webs or something to deal more effectively with JPs I think they deserve a buff. Or maybe we can research MK2 JPs or something and make them cost 20 res for some extra maneuverability.
-Armories need to stop healing armor or you need to a require an Advanced Armory for healing armor.
-Turret batteries are perhaps too squishy?
I've been playing since 210, almost exclusively on aliens, and I had <i>no clue</i> that stomp did that. I usually asked a fade to shadowstep over them, or a gorge to spit/bile them.
If you have weapons 3 and armor 3 by the 7 minute mark you've essentially spent all of your resource on upgrades only and have completely forfeited map control on an extreme level. Sure, you can now turtle effectively but you've literally give the game away. Phase Tech first children, Phase Tech first.
@OP: Aliens are in now way underpowered at all. The current balance is pretty much even except for the fact that you can do a 5 minute Onos rush by rushing a second base and dropping the egg pretty much right as it's finished. At this point, most marine players are just now securing a second expansion. Remove the two base Onos and make it require three hives to drop the egg and you've got a balanced game. Granted, exo suits shouldn't be droppable either in my opinion.
No... No... No...
Games are balanced BECAUSE of the 5 min onos. (the win rate anyway)
Remove that 5 min onos TRes drop and you will see the true state of balance.
Tres Onos are a crutch that hold alien sides in the game, without those onos eggs being spammed... Well... I have written it too times already.