Marine Turtling is a problem
Moody
Join Date: 2010-07-18 Member: 72528Members
Join Date: 2010-07-18 Member: 72528Members
I played on a team that held in 1 room for at least half an hour, the game itself lasted over an hour before I quit to find a new game. It was on tram, and we blocked off both entrances with robotics factories and armories, supported by tons of welders and MACs. We would hump armories all day and use a swarm of GLs to kill anything that came close. You might says lerks are the solution by gassing the whole room and using umbra, but they died too fast and didn't seem to help enough.
My proposed fix to this is to simply limit 1 armory per room, and 1 robotics per room. Maybe even cap the amount of spawn portals at 2 so that people didn't come back as fast (we had 3). In general I find it's easier for Marines to break a hive room than for Aliens to break a Marine room, not by much, but it is a point in the game that I think could use a closer look. It wouldn't have been as much of a problem if the onos rushes could actually get in the room, but every time they were stopped by the structures and the grenades were too much.
My proposed fix to this is to simply limit 1 armory per room, and 1 robotics per room. Maybe even cap the amount of spawn portals at 2 so that people didn't come back as fast (we had 3). In general I find it's easier for Marines to break a hive room than for Aliens to break a Marine room, not by much, but it is a point in the game that I think could use a closer look. It wouldn't have been as much of a problem if the onos rushes could actually get in the room, but every time they were stopped by the structures and the grenades were too much.
Comments
Even make armories easier to kill, that would make marines think twice about placement and stop using them in doors.
marines have many of the same problems as terran in SC2, they are so damn unforgiving that you can literally ###### up so many times fall back to 1 base and still win.
And yet Aliens are like Zerg, one mistake and you loose the entire game or use 1 hour to win it, and barely i might add. And the last 10-15 min are Marines just wasting people's time, and yet they do it also because they can win 1 base vs 4 as crazy as that sounds.
Why don't you let the marines push out to some insignificant point on the map. Then group up with your team (OMG I KNOW TEAMWORK), and rush in when they're gone. By the time the commander beacons, even if you're all skulks, you can kill the power or command station.
Or heaven forbid you use gorges with bile bomb. There have been so many games even in the beta that demonstrate the aliens being just as sufficient as the marines in taking down bases.
"Marine Turtling" is only a problem in pubs as it forces a whole team of marines to work together, whereas the aliens are likely not working together as well. It just demonstrates how effective teamwork is, not how OP marines are.
Please, define what 'marine teamwork' means.
Because all I can gather is it's about as complicated and cerebral as 'let that guy go first so he gets eaten first. Oh and try to shoot at the same thing'.
That's a pretty shallow definition of teamwork.
What do aliens need? Oh, protect the gorge who needs to use healspray on us because all our regen abilities are garbage and W3 is so overpowered you literally cannot play without carapace on everything. And then get a lerk to fly through with spores in a combined attack. And then have him strategically place umbras. And then have the onos stomp so the skulks can hit the stunned marines, while the Fade mezzes the guy with the really big gun.
But please, I enjoy hearing about how marines need more teamwork than the aliens.
This. Aliens should have had two support gorges, and bile bomb ends structures. New players seem to have a serious aversion to playing gorges since you don't get a KDR with it but they are the bane of structures.
That being said I think Hydra's are weak sauce after armor 1 and skulks die too fast to make heal spray worth it early on. It's one reason why I always do shift hive first, as adrenaline is a prereq for gorge IMO. (I will say one thing, the visual splash a marine gets after being hit with spit is darn handy with a skulk giving backup. So probably decently balanced as is other than seriously weak hydra's. Either more HP, reduced cost, or more damage. They simply suck as is.)
I'll let you guess which one will die first.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That being said I think Hydra's are weak sauce after armor 1 and skulks die too fast to make heal spray worth it early on. It's one reason why I always do shift hive first, as adrenaline is a prereq for gorge IMO. (I will say one thing, the visual splash a marine gets after being hit with spit is darn handy with a skulk giving backup. So probably decently balanced as is other than seriously weak hydra's. Either more HP, reduced cost, or more damage. They simply suck as is.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sadly the impression I've gotten so far is that the game is 'balanced' around all aliens have Carapace and all Marines having A1/W1, which is why the Fade is a total joke without Carapace and even with Carapace, skulks, lerks, and Gorges die in less than a second of W3 LMG fire, and why Hydras and Whips just don't do a damn thing to stop any marine.
Aliens shouldn't be able to crush a location that marines are turtling in the midgame. I will agree that aliens need a more decisive endgame. They need some positional abilities. Things like bile bomb really need to come back.
Aliens shouldn't be able to crush a location that marines are turtling in the midgame. I will agree that aliens need a more decisive endgame. They need some positional abilities. Things like bile bomb really need to come back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bile bomb is a must. I have helped win many stalemates with just a couple of battle gorges. Bile bomb is VERY effective if used properly. Once people figure this out, I don't think you will see these long stalemates anymore.
Just give it time.
I'll let you guess which one will die first.
Sadly the impression I've gotten so far is that the game is 'balanced' around all aliens have Carapace and all Marines having A1/W1, which is why the Fade is a total joke without Carapace and even with Carapace, skulks, lerks, and Gorges die in less than a second of W3 LMG fire, and why Hydras and Whips just don't do a damn thing to stop any marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
gorge will be fine if it knows better than to run into an open area with its ass hanging out. all gorges have to do to effectively use bile bomb is peek out, shoot arcing upwards. let the bile do its damage over time, heal spray YOURSELF if you need to or run if the action gets to hot. repeat depending on the situation. if a gorge decides to fight a gl marine 1 on 1 then yea its going to most likely die. gorges are pitiful 1 on 1 fighters because they are NOT ATTACK UNITS.
This turtling only happens now because of inexperienced comms and inexperienced players. Give it some time and people will learn how to break the turtles.
Because all I can gather is it's about as complicated and cerebral as 'let that guy go first so he gets eaten first. Oh and try to shoot at the same thing'.
That's a pretty shallow definition of teamwork.
What do aliens need? Oh, protect the gorge who needs to use healspray on us because all our regen abilities are garbage and W3 is so overpowered you literally cannot play without carapace on everything. And then get a lerk to fly through with spores in a combined attack. And then have him strategically place umbras. And then have the onos stomp so the skulks can hit the stunned marines, while the Fade mezzes the guy with the really big gun.
But please, I enjoy hearing about how marines need more teamwork than the aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't believe I said teamwork, but "working together"... What I meant by it is, the marines, who were likely rambos split up across the map, are now all together in the same room. They are all essentially doing the same thing they were before... running out of base and shooting the first thing they see, but now they're all doing it in the same room. It's more of an illusion of team work.
I can only see turtling working when both teams, or at the very least the alien team, are full of newbies who don't yet know the ropes, and for this to be on a public server where the two teams lack the coordination to deliver the final blow.
Which is also why this trend is more indicative of how working together trumps almost everything, and not of how overpowered marines are.
Oh and bile bomb is your friend here.
I'll let you guess which one will die first.
Sadly the impression I've gotten so far is that the game is 'balanced' around all aliens have Carapace and all Marines having A1/W1, which is why the Fade is a total joke without Carapace and even with Carapace, skulks, lerks, and Gorges die in less than a second of W3 LMG fire, and why Hydras and Whips just don't do a damn thing to stop any marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To that I ask you where your Umbra was good sir!