<!--quoteo(post=1995099:date=Oct 22 2012, 03:04 PM:name=Zomb3h)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zomb3h @ Oct 22 2012, 03:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995099"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here we go again.
The only thing I really want from NS1, which remains absent in NS2, is the Focus Sensory ability.
Everything else (having to bother the commander for weapons [a COMPLETE waste of time], having to go gorge to drop structures cuz everyone else decides to be res-######s , Fades on steroids even with Lvl. 3 LMG, turtle games) can STAY in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you must play a lot of marine, and die an awful lot, fades were fine in ns1. i suppose you think the paper fade in ns2 is great tho (stat padding)
Everybody looks to NS1 as the defining arbiter of what should be used and what is good and right in the world. However most people forget that <b>NS1 failed</b>. Did it fail you and I, and fail to be a brilliant game that we enjoyed? No. Did it fail the vast majority of people that tried to play it against people who were vastly more experienced than they? Yes.
<!--quoteo(post=1995099:date=Oct 22 2012, 04:04 PM:name=Zomb3h)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zomb3h @ Oct 22 2012, 04:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995099"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here we go again.
The only thing I really want from NS1, which remains absent in NS2, is the Focus Sensory ability.
Everything else (having to bother the commander for weapons [a COMPLETE waste of time], having to go gorge to drop structures cuz everyone else decides to be res-######s , Fades on steroids even with Lvl. 3 LMG, turtle games) can STAY in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is true that the reasons you stated above make NS1 quite hard to be appreciated by the masses.
<!--quoteo(post=1995139:date=Oct 22 2012, 03:39 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 22 2012, 03:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995139"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everybody looks to NS1 as the defining arbiter of what should be used and what is good and right in the world. However most people forget that <b>NS1 failed</b>. Did it fail you and I, and fail to be a brilliant game that we enjoyed? No. Did it fail the vast majority of people that tried to play it against people who were vastly more experienced than they? Yes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
are you basing that on the number of player that were playing it. first its a niche gametype and 2nd its on an already aged at the time engine, which is why its regarded as the LAST great hl1 mod. id say ns1 was a success when a free mod can get donation and people to contribute real life money based on love of the game and the belief that the devs could produce a great game. no ns1 wasnt perfect, but it surely isnt as broken as some like to say it is
<!--quoteo(post=1995139:date=Oct 22 2012, 09:39 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 22 2012, 09:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995139"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everybody looks to NS1 as the defining arbiter of what should be used and what is good and right in the world. However most people forget that <b>NS1 failed</b>. Did it fail you and I, and fail to be a brilliant game that we enjoyed? No. Did it fail the vast majority of people that tried to play it against people who were vastly more experienced than they? Yes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, I dunno if that's true. First of all NS1 was hardly a failure. Second of all, it seems you define failure by the fact that a less experienced player has less chances than an experienced player. You can't expect to stand much of a chance against the really good CS players, yet that doesn't mean CS as a game failed. One just has to try to play within a certain skill bracket.
NS1 was an awesome mod. I loved it to bits (and yeah the graphics were fantastic back in the day, esp. the overbrightness trick was very effective). Natural Selection never catered to the lowest common denominator, nor should it. It's a freaking hard game.
What NS2 could improve is offer ways for total rookies to still be useful on the battlefield. In NS1 that was via gorging, but as others pointed out building endless amounts of OC does kinda encourage turtling.
<!--quoteo(post=1995158:date=Oct 22 2012, 11:00 PM:name=Toumal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Toumal @ Oct 22 2012, 11:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995158"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Um, I dunno if that's true. First of all NS1 was hardly a failure. Second of all, it seems you define failure by the fact that a less experienced player has less chances than an experienced player. You can't expect to stand much of a chance against the really good CS players, yet that doesn't mean CS as a game failed. One just has to try to play within a certain skill bracket.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People got steamrolled in counter strike and continued playing, because the game was still fun and you understood what was going on. When you got steam rolled in natural selection, if you didn't have indepth knowledge of the game it was a completely unintelligible situation which new players could not understand.
I would estimate that, after the first 6 months of the mod's release, a new player had something like an 80% chance of stopping playing within the first month. As far as media goes, that is a failure. I maintain that NS1 is one of the best games I have ever played, if not <b>the </b>best game. But I was lucky. I started playing when everyone was a noob. How can I judge those that came late to the party?
<!--quoteo(post=1995170:date=Oct 23 2012, 07:08 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 23 2012, 07:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995170"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People got steamrolled in counter strike and continued playing, because the game was still fun and you understood what was going on. When you got steam rolled in natural selection, if you didn't have indepth knowledge of the game it was a completely unintelligible situation which new players could not understand.
I would estimate that, after the first 6 months of the mod's release, a new player had something like an 80% chance of stopping playing within the first month. As far as media goes, that is a failure. I maintain that NS1 is one of the best games I have ever played, if not <b>the </b>best game. But I was lucky. I started playing when everyone was a noob. How can I judge those that came late to the party?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1995170:date=Oct 23 2012, 07:08 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 23 2012, 07:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995170"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everybody looks to NS1 as the defining arbiter of what should be used and what is good and right in the world. However most people forget that NS1 failed. Did it fail you and I, and fail to be a brilliant game that we enjoyed? No. Did it fail the vast majority of people that tried to play it against people who were vastly more experienced than they? Yes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your a retard. You speak like your some veteran of the game, yet everything that comes out of your mouth is absolutely madeup or very biased on your own little view of what NS was to you.
It had an amazing and super super active competitive scene for like 5-6 years (which is absolutely nuts when you compare that to modern games that typically have a life span of 6-12 months). You know what builds a strong competitive scene? <b>Having a strong, active and large public player base. NS1 player public player base was massive</b>
On top of that it competed in a era of the most competitive and skill based fps games to ever grace gaming.
It competed with * Tribes 1/2 * CS * Quake 3 * Wolf:ET * COD1/2
Don't quote me on this, but I'm fairly sure after CS & DOD, it was the 3rd most popular HL1 mod as well. The game was a fantastic success which attributed to its insane game life & support of many years.
It also had massive gaming communities in Europe, NA, Australia and SEA (sorry not sure about Africa/South America).
I think he should have said that ns1 failed to cater to noobs. Which was great in my opinion. I think I speak for the majority when I say that none of us want a bunch of COD scrubs running around with us. The steep learning curve is what is missing from games these days.
Played NS2 for so long I can’t play NS1 anymore. Just the act of moving in NS1 make me go WOAH!!! what is this. The only thing I’m still good at and love to do, is sitting under the vent in the blackmesa at the hive as an onos with cloak and silence, waiting for the jp to get a little too close. YES I got James-lee again.
<!--quoteo(post=1995268:date=Oct 23 2012, 01:42 AM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 23 2012, 01:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995268"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your a retard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good start.
You think it competed with CS? Do you think that NS1 had even 1% the number of active players counter strike did? Really? Admittedly, the gaming scene where I come from is relatively tiny compared to the US or Europe, but it represents a microcosm of such a community, and for every one NS player here, there were 100s of CS players.
Look, for a half life mod it was amazing, nobody is denying that, but that doesn't mean anything. Most played after CS and DoD? Ok, what was fourth? Half life bumper cars? All you have to do is ask yourself, out of every 10 new players who tried to join the NS community and get into the game, did more stay, or did more leave? In my own personal experience, many more left than stayed, and I'm not one to simply consider my experiences the general rule, but from what I've heard even the developers considered the "noob friendliness" of the game to be lacking.
<!--quoteo(post=1995274:date=Oct 23 2012, 02:01 AM:name=Toadvine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Toadvine @ Oct 23 2012, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995274"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think I speak for the majority when I say that none of us want a bunch of COD scrubs running around with us.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope not. I surely wouldn't want to be associated with a community which is majority elitist ######-bags.
<!--quoteo(post=1995376:date=Oct 23 2012, 07:30 AM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 23 2012, 07:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995376"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The counter to your entire argument?
RTS/FPS is a niche genre.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Niche genre = reduced profitability = dead genre. Lets hope UWE can make the necessary changes to NS1 in order to make NS2 less niche and more accessible.
<!--quoteo(post=1995383:date=Oct 22 2012, 10:54 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 22 2012, 10:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995383"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Niche genre = reduced profitability = dead genre. Lets hope UWE can make the necessary changes to NS1 in order to make NS2 less niche and more accessible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that so many people are here after years of waiting is testament to how short sighted you are.
<!--quoteo(post=1995383:date=Oct 23 2012, 03:54 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 23 2012, 03:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995383"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Niche genre = reduced profitability = dead genre. Lets hope UWE can make the necessary changes to NS1 in order to make NS2 less niche and more accessible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1995398:date=Oct 23 2012, 08:17 AM:name=Katana-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katana- @ Oct 23 2012, 08:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995398"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->actually this is generally considered to be true, especially for a small company.
If you want to win in a mainstream market, you need to be prepared to out spend your competition. Do you see UWE out spending Valve, or Activision?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Feasible argument, but its not an either or situation.
It's like people thinking that indie games could never sell a million copies, but then they, and they didn't sacrifice their indieness to do it. They just addressed the accessibility issues. You can be different and popular. It is possible.
BLEURGH, why is everyone determined to change NS so much? I find it absurd that you would want to take NS away from its niche where it flourished and I find it distressing that you would bother to bring that opinion here to one of the only places where a non-mainstream game has managed to find funding for a sequel (because it was successful...). I don't want to hear a word about profit either. I understand that its a driving force, but for members of the community to use it to justify certain directions is just ridiculous and annoying.
Also, the South African community was absolutely poo so I wouldn't be surprised if that's distorting your already distorted perception of what is successful and what isn't. There was like two and a half good players ever and two of them didn't even live there.
<!--quoteo(post=1995371:date=Oct 23 2012, 01:00 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 23 2012, 01:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995371"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope not. I surely wouldn't want to be associated with a community which is majority elitist ######-bags.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Elitest community > COD's community. But I agree both are bad.
Currently there's one european server that's mostly full, one server that's half-full and judging by my ping it's australian or something. Then there's a bunch of bot-infested ######-servers that show up as populated only due to bots.
Comments
The only thing I really want from NS1, which remains absent in NS2, is the Focus Sensory ability.
Everything else (having to bother the commander for weapons [a COMPLETE waste of time], having to go gorge to drop structures cuz everyone else decides to be res-######s , Fades on steroids even with Lvl. 3 LMG, turtle games) can STAY in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you must play a lot of marine, and die an awful lot, fades were fine in ns1. i suppose you think the paper fade in ns2 is great tho (stat padding)
The only thing I really want from NS1, which remains absent in NS2, is the Focus Sensory ability.
Everything else (having to bother the commander for weapons [a COMPLETE waste of time], having to go gorge to drop structures cuz everyone else decides to be res-######s , Fades on steroids even with Lvl. 3 LMG, turtle games) can STAY in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is true that the reasons you stated above make NS1 quite hard to be appreciated by the masses.
are you basing that on the number of player that were playing it. first its a niche gametype and 2nd its on an already aged at the time engine, which is why its regarded as the LAST great hl1 mod. id say ns1 was a success when a free mod can get donation and people to contribute real life money based on love of the game and the belief that the devs could produce a great game. no ns1 wasnt perfect, but it surely isnt as broken as some like to say it is
Um, I dunno if that's true. First of all NS1 was hardly a failure. Second of all, it seems you define failure by the fact that a less experienced player has less chances than an experienced player. You can't expect to stand much of a chance against the really good CS players, yet that doesn't mean CS as a game failed. One just has to try to play within a certain skill bracket.
NS1 was an awesome mod. I loved it to bits (and yeah the graphics were fantastic back in the day, esp. the overbrightness trick was very effective). Natural Selection never catered to the lowest common denominator, nor should it. It's a freaking hard game.
What NS2 could improve is offer ways for total rookies to still be useful on the battlefield. In NS1 that was via gorging, but as others pointed out building endless amounts of OC does kinda encourage turtling.
People got steamrolled in counter strike and continued playing, because the game was still fun and you understood what was going on. When you got steam rolled in natural selection, if you didn't have indepth knowledge of the game it was a completely unintelligible situation which new players could not understand.
I would estimate that, after the first 6 months of the mod's release, a new player had something like an 80% chance of stopping playing within the first month. As far as media goes, that is a failure. I maintain that NS1 is one of the best games I have ever played, if not <b>the </b>best game. But I was lucky. I started playing when everyone was a noob. How can I judge those that came late to the party?
I would estimate that, after the first 6 months of the mod's release, a new player had something like an 80% chance of stopping playing within the first month. As far as media goes, that is a failure. I maintain that NS1 is one of the best games I have ever played, if not <b>the </b>best game. But I was lucky. I started playing when everyone was a noob. How can I judge those that came late to the party?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1995170:date=Oct 23 2012, 07:08 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 23 2012, 07:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995170"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everybody looks to NS1 as the defining arbiter of what should be used and what is good and right in the world. However most people forget that NS1 failed. Did it fail you and I, and fail to be a brilliant game that we enjoyed? No. Did it fail the vast majority of people that tried to play it against people who were vastly more experienced than they? Yes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your a retard. You speak like your some veteran of the game, yet everything that comes out of your mouth is absolutely madeup or very biased on your own little view of what NS was to you.
It had an amazing and super super active competitive scene for like 5-6 years (which is absolutely nuts when you compare that to modern games that typically have a life span of 6-12 months). You know what builds a strong competitive scene? <b>Having a strong, active and large public player base. NS1 player public player base was massive</b>
On top of that it competed in a era of the most competitive and skill based fps games to ever grace gaming.
It competed with
* Tribes 1/2
* CS
* Quake 3
* Wolf:ET
* COD1/2
Don't quote me on this, but I'm fairly sure after CS & DOD, it was the 3rd most popular HL1 mod as well. The game was a fantastic success which attributed to its insane game life & support of many years.
It also had massive gaming communities in Europe, NA, Australia and SEA (sorry not sure about Africa/South America).
How you say the game failed is just mind blowing
ps: OP is troll
Good start.
You think it competed with CS? Do you think that NS1 had even 1% the number of active players counter strike did? Really? Admittedly, the gaming scene where I come from is relatively tiny compared to the US or Europe, but it represents a microcosm of such a community, and for every one NS player here, there were 100s of CS players.
Look, for a half life mod it was amazing, nobody is denying that, but that doesn't mean anything. Most played after CS and DoD? Ok, what was fourth? Half life bumper cars? All you have to do is ask yourself, out of every 10 new players who tried to join the NS community and get into the game, did more stay, or did more leave? In my own personal experience, many more left than stayed, and I'm not one to simply consider my experiences the general rule, but from what I've heard even the developers considered the "noob friendliness" of the game to be lacking.
<!--quoteo(post=1995274:date=Oct 23 2012, 02:01 AM:name=Toadvine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Toadvine @ Oct 23 2012, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995274"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think I speak for the majority when I say that none of us want a bunch of COD scrubs running around with us.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope not. I surely wouldn't want to be associated with a community which is majority elitist ######-bags.
RTS/FPS is a niche genre.
RTS/FPS is a niche genre.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Niche genre = reduced profitability = dead genre. Lets hope UWE can make the necessary changes to NS1 in order to make NS2 less niche and more accessible.
The fact that so many people are here after years of waiting is testament to how short sighted you are.
niche genre = less competition = more profit?
see how easy it is to spin
see how easy it is to spin<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually this is generally considered to be true, especially for a small company.
If you want to win in a mainstream market, you need to be prepared to out spend your competition. Do you see UWE out spending Valve, or Activision?
If you want to win in a mainstream market, you need to be prepared to out spend your competition. Do you see UWE out spending Valve, or Activision?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Feasible argument, but its not an either or situation.
It's like people thinking that indie games could never sell a million copies, but then they, and they didn't sacrifice their indieness to do it. They just addressed the accessibility issues. You can be different and popular. It is possible.
Today it's pretty popular.
NS2 will always be seen as a sequel though, because of the name - even though Minecraft was in a lot of ways an Infiniminer sequel :-) .
Also, the South African community was absolutely poo so I wouldn't be surprised if that's distorting your already distorted perception of what is successful and what isn't. There was like two and a half good players ever and two of them didn't even live there.
Elitest community > COD's community. But I agree both are bad.