NS1, did you play it recently?
Toumal
Join Date: 2010-05-02 Member: 71591Members
Join Date: 2010-05-02 Member: 71591Members
I haven't been playing NS1 for years. Ever since NS2 got to the point where the netcode got playable, GL and onos became available. And honestly I forgot how awkward NS1 was in most regards. So I fired it up again, just for kicks, and... oh boy...
<ul><li> The movement! God, are marines sliding around on bars of soap? Do they wear TSA-branded rollerskates? Why are they only tip-toeing backwards? Are they afraid of tripping?
</li><li> The field of view is super awkward. It's fine for 4:3 monitors, but unless you want to get disoriented on your widescreen monitor, you better crank it up with a console command.
</li><li> I keep pressing right mouse button to riflebash or do SOMETHING weapon related, like in every other game - but no, a menu pops up that you need to click to get rid of. That's about as useful in combat as a rhinoceros under your toenail, or the 9-key on your microwave. Why is there a scope on the rifle? Do you know how many times I tried to aim down the sights with the right mouse button because of that misleading thing?
</li><li> Think reloading in NS2 takes long? I can change magazines on my Glock 19 three times while the NS1-marine is reloading. Rifle is about the same, three to four times, give or take.
</li><li> What's that rifle sound? And how many times can you hear that same "You don't see this every day" taunt before it gets old? Do extractors have to sound like muffled dishwashers?
</li><li> I won't even get into the graphics.
</li><li> Strategy? Yeah there is one: PG, TF, Turrets, move to next location. To kill hives, build TF+Siege next door. Rinse, repeat. As alien your options are even more limited, safe for walling in marines with your offensive towers. The power node play in NS2 feels like Sun Tzu in comparison.</li></ul>
<i>EDIT: for those who don't get sarcasm: Yes I'm not entirely serious here. See sentence below.</i>
<b>This is of course an exaggeration.</b> NS1 is an awesome mod, and loads of fun to play. But to all those who basically want NS2 to be exactly like NS1 just with better graphics, I say: Do play NS1 with a critical eye. Yes turrets are more useful in NS1, the lerk gas spores are very useful, gorges have a lot more to do than in NS2, and the outlandish Onos devour is something sorely missing in NS2. These and some other points are all valid, but jeeze, look at NS2: It's a damn solid and polished product, loads of fun to play (balancing issues aside of course), and were are not even at 1.0 here. It's perfectly playable today and has huge potential in the near future. It not only looks better, it also simply "feels better", both in gameplay depth and controls.
I guess what I'm trying to say is: NS2 is not without flaws, but I have little understanding for individual commenters painting a drab picture and claiming that NS2 is broken, not fun to play, NS1 was much better in every regard etc. etc.
IMHO NS2 is in an outstanding shape, and unless UWE mess up the next couple patches and break the game at launch, this is gonna be a huge blast.
So... did YOU play NS1 lately?
<ul><li> The movement! God, are marines sliding around on bars of soap? Do they wear TSA-branded rollerskates? Why are they only tip-toeing backwards? Are they afraid of tripping?
</li><li> The field of view is super awkward. It's fine for 4:3 monitors, but unless you want to get disoriented on your widescreen monitor, you better crank it up with a console command.
</li><li> I keep pressing right mouse button to riflebash or do SOMETHING weapon related, like in every other game - but no, a menu pops up that you need to click to get rid of. That's about as useful in combat as a rhinoceros under your toenail, or the 9-key on your microwave. Why is there a scope on the rifle? Do you know how many times I tried to aim down the sights with the right mouse button because of that misleading thing?
</li><li> Think reloading in NS2 takes long? I can change magazines on my Glock 19 three times while the NS1-marine is reloading. Rifle is about the same, three to four times, give or take.
</li><li> What's that rifle sound? And how many times can you hear that same "You don't see this every day" taunt before it gets old? Do extractors have to sound like muffled dishwashers?
</li><li> I won't even get into the graphics.
</li><li> Strategy? Yeah there is one: PG, TF, Turrets, move to next location. To kill hives, build TF+Siege next door. Rinse, repeat. As alien your options are even more limited, safe for walling in marines with your offensive towers. The power node play in NS2 feels like Sun Tzu in comparison.</li></ul>
<i>EDIT: for those who don't get sarcasm: Yes I'm not entirely serious here. See sentence below.</i>
<b>This is of course an exaggeration.</b> NS1 is an awesome mod, and loads of fun to play. But to all those who basically want NS2 to be exactly like NS1 just with better graphics, I say: Do play NS1 with a critical eye. Yes turrets are more useful in NS1, the lerk gas spores are very useful, gorges have a lot more to do than in NS2, and the outlandish Onos devour is something sorely missing in NS2. These and some other points are all valid, but jeeze, look at NS2: It's a damn solid and polished product, loads of fun to play (balancing issues aside of course), and were are not even at 1.0 here. It's perfectly playable today and has huge potential in the near future. It not only looks better, it also simply "feels better", both in gameplay depth and controls.
I guess what I'm trying to say is: NS2 is not without flaws, but I have little understanding for individual commenters painting a drab picture and claiming that NS2 is broken, not fun to play, NS1 was much better in every regard etc. etc.
IMHO NS2 is in an outstanding shape, and unless UWE mess up the next couple patches and break the game at launch, this is gonna be a huge blast.
So... did YOU play NS1 lately?
Comments
<b>NS2 is clearly the work of <i>Satan himself</i>.</b>
I think there is a lot to be said for nostalgia, but seriously... NS2 game play PRIOR to 1.0 is astoundingly dynamic. I don't think anyone will ever stop the community from producing a NS1 mod for NS2, but you won't find me playing it.
It's incredible to think a mod has turned into this game that might as well be a AAA title.
I can definitely see the appeal in a classic mod. And I guess I would play it too, if only for seeing how NS1 gameplay mechanics would work out in NS2. But for me, vanilla NS2 is where it's at, and I hope UWE can make the next patches fix the balance issues and add a few strategic options.
We have to be careful that these changes don't break NS2. It's all too easy to add some gameplay mechanic that turns challenging and fun elements into drab stuff. I'm wary of the skulk bite changes coming up - but I guess we'll see how that goes.
Saying the graphics in a game 10 YEARS older are not comparable is pretty stupid too...
TLDR your comparing a ferrari to a pinto and choosing the pinto...
NS2 is enjoyable, too. Not as much as NS, mind you, and the questionable balance directions taken to bandaid issues for some statistical balance concern me, but the core of NS2 has a lot of amazing things to offer. Give it time to be properly placed and organized.
If not, then there's enough of a base for the community to make the ultimate version of NS2.
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This is what I remember far too often. I also recall a post in another thread of games exceeding an hour. This is IMHO why. The game was far too open to turtling. It didn't happen all the time, but it did. NS1 RTS felt more like tower defense at times to me compared with NS2. It feels much more like starcraft when it has it's moments.
Granted once everything hits the public it might devolve. Also, tis but one man's opinion. Some people like COD. Some people like CS. I applaud UWE's effort in dialing in some intense and refreshing game play while keeping a healthy mixture of many classic NS1 elements.
Just surprised to see someone who makes it sound like they have played NS1 before go make a post thats pretty much completely incorrect about it.. Especially the graphics part as pretty much every person I know has said NS1 has good graphics for its time, and has stood up quite well even up to a couple years ago.
And turtling must be a joke... theres so many games of NS2 currently that are just a back and forth mindless zergfest that reminds me of the old 1.0 days... but those games in 3.2 were pretty much non-existent
<!--quoteo(post=1995013:date=Oct 22 2012, 07:29 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Oct 22 2012, 07:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995013"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But there are ideas from NS1 that can be implemented in NS2 for the for betterment of the game and dismissing them ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you for noticing that I didn't dismiss the fact that some elements of NS1 would be really nice to have in NS2 too. Oh wait you didn't notice. Well maybe read my post, not just the first 5 sentences. Thank you.
Jeeze yes of course I'd love to see devour in NS1. Or more activity for Gorges. There's lots of good ideas floating around, and I was absolutely not stating that NS2 cannot be improved.
But yes, we do have posts that claim NS2 is completely broken. It's not the majority, and I never said it was.
<!--quoteo(post=1995013:date=Oct 22 2012, 07:29 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Oct 22 2012, 07:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995013"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...with the notion of, "WELL IF YOU WANNA PLAY NS1 THEN GO PLAY NS1," is borderline insanity.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah. Except I never said that, nor implied it. So don't put words into my mouth in an attempt to justify your response.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=radforChrist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (radforChrist)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2 is enjoyable, too. Not as much as NS, mind you, and the questionable balance directions taken to bandaid issues for some statistical balance concern me, but the core of NS2 has a lot of amazing things to offer. Give it time to be properly placed and organized.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It all boils down to personal tastes. And it would be silly to try to argue away the imbalance that is 223 right now. Playing and winning as aliens is not impossible, but it's far from balanced.
I love Doom, but I recognize its limitations. Same with NS1. It happened, it was great, but UWE is trying to evolve it. Sometimes you win (Quake 3) sometimes you lose (Doom 3).
many ideas from NS1 needed to be ported over to NS2. I'm sorry you don't see that or understand. With NS2, they're trying way to hard to water-down gameplay compared to what we had before. Hell ideas that worked for years got replaced with ideas that don't, still don't but are being forced to stay no matter what. I guess if it doesn't work we just keep patching the problem until it works and if it doesn't you just keep patch it some more.
Charlie took way to many combat ideas and shoved them up our classic mode, sounds about right. As time progresses his ideas started to fail he started to adopt working ideas from NS1 but with little twit to them, very original charlie. point is, they ignored ns1 ideas, i'm not saying ns1 didn't have flaws but to ignore working ideas and replace them with dead-end dreams and force them to work isn't going to suddenly make it work.
I also found it funny charlie said in his last interview, they're thinking about adding more modes to the game, no really charlie. We told you to make classic and combat modes but not together. This way the original classic mode will not suffer.
I kinda miss more strategic options for early aliens as well. Lerk with NS1 spores early on as an area denial unit would be quite effective. Expensive to evolve, but very useful if played well. It's one of those things that are more fun in NS1 for me. But yeah, the early game is definitely NS2's weak point in terms of strategy right now. Lots of room for improvement there.
many ideas from NS1 needed to be ported over to NS2. I'm sorry you don't see that or understand. With NS2, they're trying way to hard to water-down gameplay compared to what we had before. Hell ideas that worked for years got replaced with ideas that don't, still don't but are being forced to stay no matter what. I guess if it doesn't work we just keep patching the problem until it works and if it doesn't you just keep patch it some more.
Charlie took way to many combat ideas and shoved them up our classic mode, sounds about right. As time progresses his ideas started to fail he started to adopt working ideas from NS1 but with little twit to them, very original charlie. point is, they ignored ns1 ideas, i'm not saying ns1 didn't have flaws but to ignore working ideas and replace them with dead-end dreams and force them to work isn't going to suddenly make it work.
I also found it funny charlie said in his last interview, they're thinking about adding more modes to the game, no really charlie. We told you to make classic and combat modes but not together. This way the original classic mode will not suffer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT
this could be fixed in exactly 2 secs. early betas had the lerk perfect, then they decided to trash it for whatever reason
Oh I see that, and I understand and agree. What I'm saying is: NS2 could be better, but it's fun to play and an awesome game nonetheless.
<!--quoteo(post=1995049:date=Oct 22 2012, 08:05 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Oct 22 2012, 08:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With NS2, they're trying way to hard to water-down gameplay compared to what we had before. Hell ideas that worked for years got replaced with ideas that don't, still don't but are being forced to stay no matter what. I guess if it doesn't work we just keep patching the problem until it works and if it doesn't you just keep patch it some more.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some stubbornness in that area was weird, yes. Like the insisting that turrets should not be useful against alien players, only structures. Or the cropduster lerk, which I am still not convinced is a great idea. I don't know if you could call that "watered down" though.
<!--quoteo(post=1995049:date=Oct 22 2012, 08:05 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Oct 22 2012, 08:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Charlie took way to many combat ideas and shoved them up our classic mode, sounds about right. As time progresses his ideas started to fail he started to adopt working ideas from NS1 but with little twit to them, very original charlie. point is, they ignored ns1 ideas, i'm not saying ns1 didn't have flaws but to ignore working ideas and replace them with dead-end dreams and force them to work isn't going to suddenly make it work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I personally LOVE the fact that marines can purchase their own loadout now. It's just one of many changes that have immensely improved the game for me. I assume that's one of your gripes about the matter, is that correct?
<!--quoteo(post=1995049:date=Oct 22 2012, 08:05 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Oct 22 2012, 08:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also found it funny charlie said in his last interview, they're thinking about adding more modes to the game, no really charlie. We told you to make classic and combat modes but not together. This way the original classic mode will not suffer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
More gamemodes at this point would be silly. The current official game mode needs balancing first.
I love Doom, but I recognize its limitations. Same with NS1. It happened, it was great, but UWE is trying to evolve it. Sometimes you win (Quake 3) sometimes you lose (Doom 3).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One of the cool things about the NS2: Classic mod is that it's not just a straight copy of NS1. They're taking a bunch of the great stuff from NS2 and merging it with the cool ideas and mechanics from NS1, and throwing in some great balancing and adjustment tweaks.
It's almost like they're taking the guy that designed NS1 and having him design a sequel, rather than a re-imagining (which is what the current NS2 is).
If you take someone who has played NS1 but has never played NS2 before and show them NS2: Classic and vanilla NS2 (playing veil), and ask them which they thought was the mod and which they thought was the real game, I could easily see them thinking that vanilla NS2 was a fan-made mod, as it strays so much from the core mechanics of what made Natural Selection great.
Not to say that NS2 is bad, it's just a very different game from the original NS1 and I think that it will appeal to a larger audience as a whole (which is a good thing for UWE).
i dont agree, ill just let all of the complaints on the forums speak for themselves. the only thing going against ns1 is that its engine is dated. if ns1 could be directly ported to a new engine who knows how popular it could be
It is true that people on the forum are blasting NS2 in many ways, but it can't be denied that UWE has put a lot of effort into making the GUI / notifications n00b-friendly for new players.
The only thing I really want from NS1, which remains absent in NS2, is the Focus Sensory ability.
Everything else (having to bother the commander for weapons [a COMPLETE waste of time], having to go gorge to drop structures cuz everyone else decides to be res-######s , Fades on steroids even with Lvl. 3 LMG, turtle games) can STAY in NS1.
many ideas from NS1 needed to be ported over to NS2. I'm sorry you don't see that or understand. With NS2, they're trying way to hard to water-down gameplay compared to what we had before. Hell ideas that worked for years got replaced with ideas that don't, still don't but are being forced to stay no matter what. I guess if it doesn't work we just keep patching the problem until it works and if it doesn't you just keep patch it some more.
Charlie took way to many combat ideas and shoved them up our classic mode, sounds about right. As time progresses his ideas started to fail he started to adopt working ideas from NS1 but with little twit to them, very original charlie. point is, they ignored ns1 ideas, i'm not saying ns1 didn't have flaws but to ignore working ideas and replace them with dead-end dreams and force them to work isn't going to suddenly make it work.
I also found it funny charlie said in his last interview, they're thinking about adding more modes to the game, no really charlie. We told you to make classic and combat modes but not together. This way the original classic mode will not suffer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some ideas take a while to get them to work. If they just ditched everything that didn't work after the first implementation, we would never get anything new.
Still, you may think some things have stuck around longer than they should have, and you may be right, they might should have been ditched by now. But you still got to just wait and trust Unknown Worlds. Some things take time, some features might take a long time to get ironed out. Keep bugging them about how a feature should be changed and who knows, by the end we could have something awesome that we wouldn't have had if they just ditched it after 2 patches.