Consistent Skulk HUD that makes sense
Nex Carnifex
Join Date: 2011-01-06 Member: 76366Members
Join Date: 2011-01-06 Member: 76366Members
Ok, so I am really bothered by the fact that despite the Skulk being upside-down or sideways, his mouth is always parallel to the ground in first person and it doesn't make any sense visually or logically. This heavily detracts from the deep immersion this game tries to create in my opinion. But I have an idea that can fix this issue of visual inconsistency while not disorienting players.
My idea is to have the teeth pull back and rotate to keep things visually consistent while keeping the vision parallel to the floor, then you can say skulks adjust their vision based on gravity, but obviously their mouth rotates with their head. The teeth pull back so the mouth doesn't obstruct your vision, but they come back to their normal resting place when you jump off the walls.
So the camera inside the mouth is static and unchanging, but the inside of the Skulks mouth isn't and stays consistent with the character model. When I say pull back I mean whenever the skulk changes its body orientation its mouth will open more so when it turns the teeth won't get in the way and make it harder to see. You'd still see a bit of mouth around the edges but it would be much less than you normal see when the Skulk is running on the ground. The in-universe explanation for him opening his mouth more might be the same as the out of universe explanation, the Skulk just needs to see better.
My idea is to have the teeth pull back and rotate to keep things visually consistent while keeping the vision parallel to the floor, then you can say skulks adjust their vision based on gravity, but obviously their mouth rotates with their head. The teeth pull back so the mouth doesn't obstruct your vision, but they come back to their normal resting place when you jump off the walls.
So the camera inside the mouth is static and unchanging, but the inside of the Skulks mouth isn't and stays consistent with the character model. When I say pull back I mean whenever the skulk changes its body orientation its mouth will open more so when it turns the teeth won't get in the way and make it harder to see. You'd still see a bit of mouth around the edges but it would be much less than you normal see when the Skulk is running on the ground. The in-universe explanation for him opening his mouth more might be the same as the out of universe explanation, the Skulk just needs to see better.
Comments
I think its essential if they want the skulk to make sense.
Rotation of the skulk view model tends to cause severe disorientation, and even motion sickness, in more players than it excites. Many people bring up the AVP analogy to argue for view-model rotation, and even total view rotation. This analogy is not valid in the NS2 context: NS2 is not AVP, and the Skulk plays extremely differently to the Aliens universe xenomorphs.
The speed at which a good Skulk moves through the environment is simply unmatched by other games that do rotating view models. Wall jumping, ceiling running, clinging to obstacles at ever changing angles, bouncing off the floor; all these can all happen within the space of seconds. Often, the transition is so fast that the view model, or camera angle, does not even have time to react.
What you get is not an AVP style level immersion. Instead, you get a view model doing its best Washing Machine Simulator 2012.
At all times, in all games, there must be trade-offs between 'realism' and good gameplay. No, it does not make physical 'sense' for the view model and camera to remain static relative to the floor. But nanites don't make sense, the size of the teeth don'e make sense, infinite marine respawns don't make sense, the whole NS universe is a crazy non-sensical sci-fi playground. But is a fun playground.
To that end, we are doing what is best to keep the skulk fun, and making a reasonable realism sacrifice in the process.
Rotation of the skulk view model tends to cause severe disorientation, and even motion sickness, in more players than it excites. Many people bring up the AVP analogy to argue for view-model rotation, and even total view rotation. This analogy is not valid in the NS2 context: NS2 is not AVP, and the Skulk plays extremely differently to the Aliens universe xenomorphs.
The speed at which a good Skulk moves through the environment is simply unmatched by other games that do rotating view models. Wall jumping, ceiling running, clinging to obstacles at ever changing angles, bouncing off the floor; all these can all happen within the space of seconds. Often, the transition is so fast that the view model, or camera angle, does not even have time to react.
What you get is not an AVP style level immersion. Instead, you get a view model doing its best Washing Machine Simulator 2012.
At all times, in all games, there must be trade-offs between 'realism' and good gameplay. No, it does not make physical 'sense' for the view model and camera to remain static relative to the floor. But nanites don't make sense, the size of the teeth don'e make sense, infinite marine respawns don't make sense, the whole NS universe is a crazy non-sensical sci-fi playground. But is a fun playground.
To that end, we are doing what is best to keep the skulk fun, and making a reasonable realism sacrifice in the process.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
reading comprehension .... never leave home without it :)
I think that you think Hugh thinks OP is talking about camera rotation.
If I am right, then I say to you sir, you have left home without it. D:
Hugh's post talks about both viewmodel (mouth image) rotation and camera rotation.
Rotation of the skulk view model tends to cause severe disorientation, and even motion sickness, in more players than it excites. Many people bring up the AVP analogy to argue for view-model rotation, and even total view rotation. This analogy is not valid in the NS2 context: NS2 is not AVP, and the Skulk plays extremely differently to the Aliens universe xenomorphs.
The speed at which a good Skulk moves through the environment is simply unmatched by other games that do rotating view models. Wall jumping, ceiling running, clinging to obstacles at ever changing angles, bouncing off the floor; all these can all happen within the space of seconds. Often, the transition is so fast that the view model, or camera angle, does not even have time to react.
What you get is not an AVP style level immersion. Instead, you get a view model doing its best Washing Machine Simulator 2012.
At all times, in all games, there must be trade-offs between 'realism' and good gameplay. No, it does not make physical 'sense' for the view model and camera to remain static relative to the floor. But nanites don't make sense, the size of the teeth don'e make sense, infinite marine respawns don't make sense, the whole NS universe is a crazy non-sensical sci-fi playground. But is a fun playground.
To that end, we are doing what is best to keep the skulk fun, and making a reasonable realism sacrifice in the process.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that the camera should remain static, but if the teeth pull back and rotate without obstructing the view there should be no problem and no gaping inconsistency in front of everyone's face all the time (because the Skulk is the starting and basic class). Again I don't think the camera should rotate like in AvP, I didn't say that, but you don't completely understand my idea.
There will be no washing machine disorientation, if you knew what I was saying you wouldn't make that analogy.
I'm fine with things like Marine spawns and stuff, perhaps the Marines are being spawned in from a far-away base, but this is a HUGE visual inconsistency and it really takes away from the game for me and others who are bothered by these things. Again, if the Skulk opens its mouth on walls allowing the HUD model to rotate without being annoying, there should be no problem at all, please consider this.
I own AvP and well lets just say I never finished the Aliens story line.
A good idea but I think my idea works fine, there would be not disorientation or obstruction of sight it would work perfectly. NS2HDs argument would work if I was proposing stuff they have already tried but I knew of that prior and innovated, there would be no issues.
Rotation of the skulk view model tends to cause severe disorientation, and even motion sickness, in more players than it excites. Many people bring up the AVP analogy to argue for view-model rotation, and even total view rotation. This analogy is not valid in the NS2 context: NS2 is not AVP, and the Skulk plays extremely differently to the Aliens universe xenomorphs.
The speed at which a good Skulk moves through the environment is simply unmatched by other games that do rotating view models. Wall jumping, ceiling running, clinging to obstacles at ever changing angles, bouncing off the floor; all these can all happen within the space of seconds. Often, the transition is so fast that the view model, or camera angle, does not even have time to react.
What you get is not an AVP style level immersion. Instead, you get a view model doing its best Washing Machine Simulator 2012.
At all times, in all games, there must be trade-offs between 'realism' and good gameplay. No, it does not make physical 'sense' for the view model and camera to remain static relative to the floor. But nanites don't make sense, the size of the teeth don'e make sense, infinite marine respawns don't make sense, the whole NS universe is a crazy non-sensical sci-fi playground. But is a fun playground.
To that end, we are doing what is best to keep the skulk fun, and making a reasonable realism sacrifice in the process.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about you just rotate the teeth view-model?
<!--quoteo(post=1982585:date=Sep 24 2012, 05:21 PM:name=Nex Carnifex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nex Carnifex @ Sep 24 2012, 05:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1982585"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Again I don't think the camera should rotate like in AvP, I didn't say that, but you don't completely understand my idea.
There will be no washing machine disorientation, if you knew what I was saying you wouldn't make that analogy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1982671:date=Sep 24 2012, 08:05 PM:name=Luther)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Luther @ Sep 24 2012, 08:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1982671"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the first person view changed angles with where you where standing then I don't think I would be able to play ns2 like I am now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um... um.... hey guys..... I think you all need to reread this bit:
<!--quoteo(post=1982488:date=Sep 24 2012, 01:07 PM:name=Strayan (NS2HD))--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Strayan (NS2HD) @ Sep 24 2012, 01:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1982488"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The concept of a rotating <!--coloro:#0000FF--><span style="color:#0000FF"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>view-model</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> has been tested, tried, and debated many times in the past. After extensive iteration, the consensus here at UWE is that it is not a good gameplay feature.
Rotation of the skulk <!--coloro:#0000FF--><span style="color:#0000FF"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>view model</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> tends to cause severe disorientation, and even motion sickness, in more players than it excites. Many people bring up the AVP analogy to argue for <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#0000FF--><span style="color:#0000FF"><!--/coloro--><b>view-model rotation</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, and even <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><b>total view rotation.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> <i>[Please note how these are clearly acknowledged as two separate things]</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The ratio of reading to posting in this thread is remarkably bad....
<!--quoteo(post=1982717:date=Sep 24 2012, 10:50 PM:name=1dominator1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1dominator1 @ Sep 24 2012, 10:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1982717"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about you just rotate the teeth view-model?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
@_@
Your trolling amazes me. Did you read Strayan´s post? did you even read the post above the one I´m quoting?? everyone understood what you said, my 1 year old probably understood it as well, and he cant read. Read strayan´s post again, please.
Are teeth that much of a bother for you?
You want to rotate AND move the teeth out of the way. Strayan one shotted your idea, with clear argument that it was tested and found not suitable for the game.
If you were to present your idea AGAIN and ONLY for the teeth, then I think people would stop being annoyed by this. You want BOTH, you keep insisting in BOTH, when you have been told it WONT work.
Are teeth that much of a bother for you?
You want to rotate AND move the teeth out of the way. Strayan one shotted your idea, with clear argument that it was tested and found not suitable for the game.
If you were to present your idea AGAIN and ONLY for the teeth, then I think people would stop being annoyed by this. You want BOTH, you keep insisting in BOTH, when you have been told it WONT work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No I never wanted both I always meant just the teeth...
also the teeth don't need to rotate at a crazy speed like the skulk model, it can be a delay so that they rotate very smoothly.
And if you leap from the ground to the ceiling? That's a 180 rotation the teeth need to do, and if they don't do it relatively quickly, they could still be rotating after you've been running on the ceiling for a good few seconds. I think that would look even less consistent than what we have currently.
Nothing is less consistent as what we have now. I say just make the teeth disappear.
/Close thread
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He addressed the idea of having a rotating view model, but now I'm saying just have the view model completely disappear.