Hiding upgrades inside Clogs
MaximumSquid
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
Comments
Because seriously I cannot see it not being a legit strategy.
Yeah I know it happens, because I do it. I don't see why its a problem though. Clogs are, by design, for blocking access. Using them to block access to fragile upgrades seems to be proper use.
The developers make the game, but they can't always predict how the game will be played. Only if a part of the game becomes a detriment to the fun and fairness of the game, then the developers should fix it.
100% legit
This was even seen in the Guru tournament, wherein Hugh actually commented on the good strategy.
And it's not bad to see aliens "resorting to such measures" to protect upgrades. In fact, the armory block on the marine side is an almost exact mirror to this.
No, the fact aliens protect their structures in this way is not the problem. The problem is that if their upgrade chambers are destroyed, they have to be re-researched, as opposed to marines who just have to build the armory or power again.
Fixed.
The developers make the game, but they can't always predict how the game will be played. Only if a part of the game becomes a detriment to the fun and fairness of the game, then the developers should fix it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Such as they did with Tram, alien commanders were placing thier upgrades in the vent a RR so the devs took that away.
As of now and since clogs only block fire, mainly, rather than marines since in most cases they just jump right over them. It's sad to see a gorge blocking off a doorway when a marine jumps into a vent and just shoots his ass.
No it's not. Armory blocking is different because:
a) Armories aren't designed SPECIFICALLY for blocking, whereas clogs are. Using clogs to block is a feature, because that's what they're there for. Using armories to block, is an exploit.
b) as a result of a) armory's have a lot of health, whereas because clogs ARE designed for blocking, they are much more fragile to compensate for this (if an intended function of the armory was to keep the powernode from being damaged, then it would have a lot less health, for balance reasons).
c) I'm assuming that the powernode's heath is balanced WITHOUT the armory hp added to it. You may think it's okay to buff your powernode hp because you don't agree that the aliens should have such a fragile killswitch to take advantage of, but like it or not, the game is balanced for that, and circumventing the developers intentions by adding more hp to the powernode is exploitative and gives you an unfair advantage. Sure, the hp of the upgrades isn't balanced with the hp of the clogs added to it, but as mentioned, clogs are designed specifically for blocking and have low hp to compensate.
d) anybody can phase/beacon back to a marine base almost instantly. Aliens can't do this. Also, in addition to this there's a much shorter window of time to respond before your clogs/upgrades die than for your armory/powernode.
e) Powernodes and armories can be nanoshielded, to make it even more difficult to destroy
a) Armories aren't designed SPECIFICALLY for blocking, whereas clogs are. Using clogs to block is a feature, because that's what they're there for. Using armories to block, is an exploit.
b) as a result of a) armory's have a lot of health, whereas because clogs ARE designed for blocking, they are much more fragile to compensate for this (if an intended function of the armory was to keep the powernode from being damaged, then it would have a lot less health, for balance reasons).
c) I'm assuming that the powernode's heath is balanced WITHOUT the armory hp added to it. You may think it's okay to buff your powernode hp because you don't agree that the aliens should have such a fragile killswitch to take advantage of, but like it or not, the game is balanced for that, and circumventing the developers intentions by adding more hp to the powernode is exploitative and gives you an unfair advantage. Sure, the hp of the upgrades isn't balanced with the hp of the clogs added to it, but as mentioned, clogs are designed specifically for blocking and have low hp to compensate.
d) anybody can phase/beacon back to a marine base almost instantly. Aliens can't do this. Also, in addition to this there's a much shorter window of time to respond before your clogs/upgrades die than for your armory/powernode.
e) Powernodes and armories can be nanoshielded, to make it even more difficult to destroy<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems you're here to argue that armory blocking is unfair, correct?
There's a fine line between an exploit and a feature.
A. If you're arguing that if a feature in a game isn't designed for what players use it for it's illegal, I would have to disagree. If everything in a game happened this way, then the game progression would be much easier to predict, and would have less definable outcomes. I believe this was actually more or less discussed by Totalbiscuit (if you know him). Take a look at the overly-linear game of your choice and you'll see what I mean. Then, look at Dishonored. The game allows you to do stuff that the devs didn't ever expect you to do because of the wide amount of options a single ability ie. blink or possession grants you. Are they OP?
I've even heard stories where the marines weren't able to weld the power because they couldn't reach it. It adds a certain unpredictability to NS2.
When a certain "technique" becomes overpowered, THEN we have a problem. As it stands, both strategies are for the same purpose, just with different weaknesses. A marine comm has to have his men build the structure after dropping it, using TRES. A lone gorge can just clog up an upgrade on his own, with no res loss at all. Armory and clog blocking mirror each other much in the way aliens mirror 'rines. Their tools are different, but they use them to achieve the same goals.
D. Beacons were granted to marines as a small defense to a rush. It can, however leave other owned installations vulnerable. Aliens weren't given this ability because they can already move fast around the map. <i>That's</i> their response. It makes sense too, I only wish that alien base and most notably celerity run speed were increased a bit.
If you wanted to argue the balance of armory blocking more, then I could say that it helps (protect the node), but only to an extent. For example, it will have about nil effect on bilebomb and skulks. The only thing that it really gives problems to is the onos, and even that can just aim it's slam toward the power node sticking out of the corner of the wall. It can be used to slightly nullify the deadly alien rush (but it's not enough to halt one), which in my book is good strategy. As UWE believes in "soft" counters, I think this fits well with the game logic.
E. I would have to agree here. Aliens can't delay the destruction of anything. However nanoshielding is so situational that I hardly see it used, and when it is we usually just kill the supposed res tower anyway.
a) Armories aren't designed SPECIFICALLY for blocking, whereas clogs are. Using clogs to block is a feature, because that's what they're there for. Using armories to block, is an exploit.
b) as a result of a) armory's have a lot of health, whereas because clogs ARE designed for blocking, they are much more fragile to compensate for this (if an intended function of the armory was to keep the powernode from being damaged, then it would have a lot less health, for balance reasons).
c) I'm assuming that the powernode's heath is balanced WITHOUT the armory hp added to it. You may think it's okay to buff your powernode hp because you don't agree that the aliens should have such a fragile killswitch to take advantage of, but like it or not, the game is balanced for that, and circumventing the developers intentions by adding more hp to the powernode is exploitative and gives you an unfair advantage. Sure, the hp of the upgrades isn't balanced with the hp of the clogs added to it, but as mentioned, clogs are designed specifically for blocking and have low hp to compensate.
d) anybody can phase/beacon back to a marine base almost instantly. Aliens can't do this. Also, in addition to this there's a much shorter window of time to respond before your clogs/upgrades die than for your armory/powernode.
e) Powernodes and armories can be nanoshielded, to make it even more difficult to destroy<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree.
Cogs allow for aliens to arrive before a single marine kill all the upgrades.
Armouries on powernodes allow the beaconed marine team to slaughter the entire alien team.
If anything it makes the location of upgrades more obvious. But gives aliens x amount of time to respond before it dies.
I used to hate clogs, but they are actually being used for great effect in clan matches and pubs.
a) Armories aren't designed SPECIFICALLY for blocking, whereas clogs are. Using clogs to block is a feature, because that's what they're there for. Using armories to block, is an exploit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also a legit tactic, with an obvious counter.
Bilebomb.
So kill the obs first.
Nothing to stop them phase gating back instead in the increased time.