<!--quoteo(post=1990466:date=Oct 12 2012, 12:03 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Oct 12 2012, 12:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990466"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's hard to believe you released a patch without nerfing aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WHAT? How much more nerf can you get when marines can rush and aliens can't kill single marine in defense because the bite requires perfect 60fps to target them.
Anyway, not sure WTF but 222 & 223 go down in infamy with the top 5 worst builds. If you're a marine, it seems pretty good. But as aliens (especially skulk) it seems you can do nothing but die.
Had some of the worst games I've played tonight, and last night wasn't much better.
Love this game, but there is some things I would like to change:
-Remove building on infestation -Mines should cost 10 res -Add the choosing option on which hive to spawn, it was there at some stage, where is it now? -Bilebomb is annoying, maybe it's too powerful <b>-When marine is attacked from behind he should take something like 20-30% more damage</b> (Really would like to see this)
I loved 219 and thought that build with a few tweaks and especially performance ones would be great for the 1.0 release. But the changes since have made me play less and less with each build. I had two games on the latest yesterday with a few friends and we and wont be back until the next one. It needs to appeal to comp and casual gamers but atm it seems geared heavily towards comp play were every player knows what they are doing, using TS/vent, has a good commander and teamwork is used all the time. Casual pub players like me and 95% of the players who have no interest in clan play will reach for the escape key as I have done more than I should recently.
The marine side is just so easy its not funny and Aliens are so frustrating it just makes me not want to play them even though I like a challenge.
Changes to Marine movement encouraging them to pogo around even more is unbelievable as in every combat it just becomes Alien and Marine circle jump disco time. Skill based? No, its easy to do and even though I hate bhop, at least that took some practice in NS1 to become good at. I have lost count how many times I have suggested no reloading ala Day of Defeat when jumping or an accuracy penalty as at least that would make Marines in combat make choices and make Alien play fun and not frustrating. If we are talking skill based, what is skill based about Exo's for example? Get a few MACs with you, a marine spamming nades and you even a target on aliens to help it takes nothing to rack up huge k/d ratios.
After logging hundreds of hours in game and supporting UW over the last 3 years I really want this game to do well for them and for it to last years, but as it is too many people will not stick with it. They are a business now and need as many people to buy the game and keep with it to succeed but fear what they are doing with the changes will just cause players to rage quit and never come back, support the game or buy any future releases from UW.
I have followed the game for ages now and feel some pride in watching it grow and mature but the last few builds are a step backwards and this close to release is worrying.
This close to release and problems still with Turrets/Hydras and MACV/ARC trains (cant believe those are back), welders being used as a primary weapon, huge Drifter rushes which not only frustrate players but crash servers and many more and I wonder if they can pull of a good build for release. I hope so, I really do. the guys in UW are a great bunch of human beings and deserve to be successful.
Edit: Just noticed the post above with the suggestion that alien attacks from behind should be more powerful. Great idea.
<!--quoteo(post=1991003:date=Oct 14 2012, 01:57 AM:name=SkiT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SkiT @ Oct 14 2012, 01:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1991003"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm the only one who skulks move so choppy? and my fps are regularly lowered to 30. This was not the case 219/222.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had a similar problem the first day. then they changed something in the server and now it's very smooth. try some good servers..
Guys don't know where to tell this. You should update the steam store page with the official release date
<!--quoteo(post=1990786:date=Oct 13 2012, 12:11 AM:name=fUncie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fUncie @ Oct 13 2012, 12:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990786"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Love this game, but there is some things I would like to change:
-Remove building on infestation -Mines should cost 10 res -Add the choosing option on which hive to spawn, it was there at some stage, where is it now? -Bilebomb is annoying, maybe it's too powerful <b>-When marine is attacked from behind he should take something like 20-30% more damage</b> (Really would like to see this)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree with your ideas about Mines costing less (as there would be more mine spam and it's okay where it is now) and Bilebomb, but I <i><b>love</b></i><u></u> your idea about the marine "backstab"! It sounds like a great idea and it isn't just a straight up bite upgrade. It takes skill, discourages fleeing, and makes skulk rushes more effective (chasing down retreating marines).
My only concerns are that a skulk might accidentally bite a marine in the rear simply by spamming. Maybe it should be restrained so that it only works if the alien is at full health, so that he would need to be stealthy. But even that might not work if he has regen...maybe only works without regen? I think it should also be confined to skulks, as something like a fade and especially an onos doesn't rely on stealth as much.
I am also worried that it could make silence even more powerful. It would basically guarantee a bite from behind, as would camouflage.
It would be good if this were given to skulks with only certain base upgrades, like cara and celerity but would be lost as other evolutions were used. This would help with early game skulk domination too. Again, there are slight problems with this (it would encourage shift hives more than shades and maybe crags, which are already hardly used early game) but I think it's an interesting concept.
<!--quoteo(post=1990653:date=Oct 12 2012, 08:20 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Oct 12 2012, 08:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990653"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Re building power nodes goes at the same speed the old nano-boost ability provided.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is a bug, when destroyed power nodes get the blueprint again instead of the destroyed state, as a result marines build destroyed power nodes as fast as the first time when they are unsocketed. It's strange that the playtesters didn't pick this up to be honest.
<!--quoteo(post=1991008:date=Oct 14 2012, 10:44 AM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Oct 14 2012, 10:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1991008"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ns2c looks better and better each patch.. :S<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> quoted for truth
<!--quoteo(post=1990609:date=Oct 13 2012, 10:05 AM:name=maD maX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (maD maX @ Oct 13 2012, 10:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990609"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also getting the flicker with alien esspesially with hive sight... like a blinding white horazontal line not sure if its tearing or what?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lightning bolt like effect? yeah that's been in the game for sometime now and still hasn't been removed/fixed
A few things, honestly not like real bugs but rather weird things:
- After entering the hive for commanding with low hp, when coming out, the screen islashing red as if recently hit (gives the feeling a marine in the hive room shooting you). It might be a desired feature (reminding you you're on low hp) but it can be confusing. - When commanding (alien), it feels weird that you do not heal (although I understand it could be desired to prevent a onos to jump and hide in, peacefully healing). - the sign "Press E for commanding" appears before the hive is done building. - the alien vision flickers sometimes as described by others - seen this in the recent tournament and tested myself: a player (let's say onos) with low hp will use hypermutation to elvolve back to skulk to gain instantly his full hp back.. re-onosing straight afterwards. I feel this is somekind of.. unexpected behavior. - building stuff as marine, is having it oriented 90° to the side.. (like perpendicular to what you wanted), tested on a robotic facility.
<!--quoteo(post=1991025:date=Oct 14 2012, 02:15 AM:name=sushia11)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sushia11 @ Oct 14 2012, 02:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1991025"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree with your ideas about Mines costing less (as there would be more mine spam and it's okay where it is now) and Bilebomb, but I <i><b>love</b></i><u></u> your idea about the marine "backstab"! It sounds like a great idea and it isn't just a straight up bite upgrade. It takes skill, discourages fleeing, and makes skulk rushes more effective (chasing down retreating marines).
My only concerns are that a skulk might accidentally bite a marine in the rear simply by spamming. Maybe it should be restrained so that it only works if the alien is at full health, so that he would need to be stealthy. But even that might not work if he has regen...maybe only works without regen? I think it should also be confined to skulks, as something like a fade and especially an onos doesn't rely on stealth as much.
I am also worried that it could make silence even more powerful. It would basically guarantee a bite from behind, as would camouflage.
It would be good if this were given to skulks with only certain base upgrades, like cara and celerity but would be lost as other evolutions were used. This would help with early game skulk domination too. Again, there are slight problems with this (it would encourage shift hives more than shades and maybe crags, which are already hardly used early game) but I think it's an interesting concept.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you serious?! that was his WORST idea! when a marine is attacked in the back he is already being punished... by the time he turns back, he is already dead..... and this gets worse when the bad performance gives your marine insta-kill bites...
Thanks a lot for the perfs but PLEASE do somthing quickly about the balance ! The aliens can't hit anything at all ! (and I am more a marine player but this is just obvious on this patch : I do twice more kills than before as a marine and twice less as alien)
A few major/minor/nitpicking annoyances that I think need addressing before 1.0:
- <b>Alien vision flickering</b>. This only started happening to me this patch. Insanely nauseating. Radeon 6850
- <b>Change the name of Ore Deposit back to Refinery</b> in mineshaft. Or change the name of Ore Extraction hive. Way too confusing to have both when everyone abbreviates locations. "Ore! Ore? Which ore?!"
- <b>Blink sound continues playing</b> for a few seconds after you've stopped blinking (sometimes)
- <b>Celerity speed whooshing sound plays while you are walking</b> as a skulk. Besides being annoying, it just doesn't make any sense because the skulk isn't going fast enough to justify hearing such a noise.
For the longest time, a Marine could drop his rifle and pistol which would allow him to run faster than a non-celerity skulk. WTF is that? Skulks that still have 4 legs should ALWAYS be able to out run a pitiful 2-legged human. Until this "ability" is nerfed, Mother Hive burns with anger at the UWE dev team!
<!--quoteo(post=1993062:date=Oct 17 2012, 06:26 PM:name=HappyFlapps)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HappyFlapps @ Oct 17 2012, 06:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993062"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For the longest time, a Marine could drop his rifle and pistol which would allow him to run faster than a non-celerity skulk. WTF is that? Skulks that still have 4 legs should ALWAYS be able to out run a pitiful 2-legged human. Until this "ability" is nerfed, Mother Hive burns with anger at the UWE dev team!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno, have you ever seen an Ostrich run? those are pretty fast for having two legs. Marines clearly spliced some Ostrich into themselves.
Vladimir Van VodkaSexy BeastJoin Date: 2010-07-30Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1991823:date=Oct 15 2012, 08:48 PM:name=LUSITANER)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LUSITANER @ Oct 15 2012, 08:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1991823"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you serious?! that was his WORST idea! when a marine is attacked in the back he is already being punished... by the time he turns back, he is already dead..... and this gets worse when the bad performance gives your marine insta-kill bites...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the backstab mechanic could be an alien shade evolution... that would be pretty cool... Wait, but then you wouldn't have silence or cloak, damn. I just thought it would be cool to have something which can buff alien damage somehow.
<!--quoteo(post=1993062:date=Oct 17 2012, 07:26 PM:name=HappyFlapps)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HappyFlapps @ Oct 17 2012, 07:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993062"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For the longest time, a Marine could drop his rifle and pistol which would allow him to run faster than a non-celerity skulk. WTF is that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a 100m hurdles olympic champion.
Added læwlz if he buys a welder and gets aggro while 2-3 people shoot at his feet,
But he's <i>running</i> and striving and hugging the turns, And thinking of someone for whom he still burns. He's going the distance. He's going for speed.
1) I understand and support the competitive nature of the game. But I would place 'making it fun' over all else for release. You MUST have a good first impression for noobs to make this game successful and propagate the community.
2) Shooting as skulk as it approaches you typically is more performant (easier to react to) than up close combat. Frames drop and the marine doesn't just look like he's jumping around, he really is traveling a distance across your screen between frames. Melee combat in FPS is a unique experience for most and does require some skill, but shouldn't be a massive learning curve or feel frustrating to learn. In other words, noobs might feel it difficult, but shouldn't feel it impossible to bite.
3) After a lot of 223 play, I think the 8 bullet skulk kill <b><i>feels</i></b> right as a marine (13 with carapace). I wouldn't change it. But the level of difficulty in biting a marine right now is <b>VERY frustrating</b>. It needs to <b><i>feel</i></b> right. Not sure what needs to be done but the foundational combat mechanics for a unit should not be a discussion for balance. Balance should come some other way. Combat by itself should just feel correct (and satisfying). Each units combat mechanics should not be in question or doubt. If it's too easy for some, then re-balance (nerf) somewhere else.
Comments
WHAT? How much more nerf can you get when marines can rush and aliens can't kill single marine in defense because the bite requires perfect 60fps to target them.
Anyway, not sure WTF but 222 & 223 go down in infamy with the top 5 worst builds.
If you're a marine, it seems pretty good. But as aliens (especially skulk) it seems you can do nothing but die.
Had some of the worst games I've played tonight, and last night wasn't much better.
-Remove building on infestation
-Mines should cost 10 res
-Add the choosing option on which hive to spawn, it was there at some stage, where is it now?
-Bilebomb is annoying, maybe it's too powerful
<b>-When marine is attacked from behind he should take something like 20-30% more damage</b> (Really would like to see this)
The marine side is just so easy its not funny and Aliens are so frustrating it just makes me not want to play them even though I like a challenge.
Changes to Marine movement encouraging them to pogo around even more is unbelievable as in every combat it just becomes Alien and Marine circle jump disco time. Skill based? No, its easy to do and even though I hate bhop, at least that took some practice in NS1 to become good at. I have lost count how many times I have suggested no reloading ala Day of Defeat when jumping or an accuracy penalty as at least that would make Marines in combat make choices and make Alien play fun and not frustrating. If we are talking skill based, what is skill based about Exo's for example? Get a few MACs with you, a marine spamming nades and you even a target on aliens to help it takes nothing to rack up huge k/d ratios.
After logging hundreds of hours in game and supporting UW over the last 3 years I really want this game to do well for them and for it to last years, but as it is too many people will not stick with it. They are a business now and need as many people to buy the game and keep with it to succeed but fear what they are doing with the changes will just cause players to rage quit and never come back, support the game or buy any future releases from UW.
I have followed the game for ages now and feel some pride in watching it grow and mature but the last few builds are a step backwards and this close to release is worrying.
This close to release and problems still with Turrets/Hydras and MACV/ARC trains (cant believe those are back), welders being used as a primary weapon, huge Drifter rushes which not only frustrate players but crash servers and many more and I wonder if they can pull of a good build for release. I hope so, I really do. the guys in UW are a great bunch of human beings and deserve to be successful.
Edit: Just noticed the post above with the suggestion that alien attacks from behind should be more powerful. Great idea.
Sal
I had a similar problem the first day. then they changed something in the server and now it's very smooth. try some good servers..
Guys don't know where to tell this. You should update the steam store page with the official release date
-Remove building on infestation
-Mines should cost 10 res
-Add the choosing option on which hive to spawn, it was there at some stage, where is it now?
-Bilebomb is annoying, maybe it's too powerful
<b>-When marine is attacked from behind he should take something like 20-30% more damage</b> (Really would like to see this)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree with your ideas about Mines costing less (as there would be more mine spam and it's okay where it is now) and Bilebomb, but I <i><b>love</b></i><u></u> your idea about the marine "backstab"! It sounds like a great idea and it isn't just a straight up bite upgrade. It takes skill, discourages fleeing, and makes skulk rushes more effective (chasing down retreating marines).
My only concerns are that a skulk might accidentally bite a marine in the rear simply by spamming. Maybe it should be restrained so that it only works if the alien is at full health, so that he would need to be stealthy. But even that might not work if he has regen...maybe only works without regen? I think it should also be confined to skulks, as something like a fade and especially an onos doesn't rely on stealth as much.
I am also worried that it could make silence even more powerful. It would basically guarantee a bite from behind, as would camouflage.
It would be good if this were given to skulks with only certain base upgrades, like cara and celerity but would be lost as other evolutions were used. This would help with early game skulk domination too. Again, there are slight problems with this (it would encourage shift hives more than shades and maybe crags, which are already hardly used early game) but I think it's an interesting concept.
I think this is a bug, when destroyed power nodes get the blueprint again instead of the destroyed state, as a result marines build destroyed power nodes as fast as the first time when they are unsocketed. It's strange that the playtesters didn't pick this up to be honest.
quoted for truth
<!--quoteo(post=1990609:date=Oct 13 2012, 10:05 AM:name=maD maX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (maD maX @ Oct 13 2012, 10:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990609"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also getting the flicker with alien esspesially with hive sight... like a blinding white horazontal line not sure if its tearing or what?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lightning bolt like effect? yeah that's been in the game for sometime now and still hasn't been removed/fixed
- After entering the hive for commanding with low hp, when coming out, the screen islashing red as if recently hit (gives the feeling a marine in the hive room shooting you).
It might be a desired feature (reminding you you're on low hp) but it can be confusing.
- When commanding (alien), it feels weird that you do not heal (although I understand it could be desired to prevent a onos to jump and hide in, peacefully healing).
- the sign "Press E for commanding" appears before the hive is done building.
- the alien vision flickers sometimes as described by others
- seen this in the recent tournament and tested myself: a player (let's say onos) with low hp will use hypermutation to elvolve back to skulk to gain instantly his full hp back.. re-onosing straight afterwards. I feel this is somekind of.. unexpected behavior.
- building stuff as marine, is having it oriented 90° to the side.. (like perpendicular to what you wanted), tested on a robotic facility.
My only concerns are that a skulk might accidentally bite a marine in the rear simply by spamming. Maybe it should be restrained so that it only works if the alien is at full health, so that he would need to be stealthy. But even that might not work if he has regen...maybe only works without regen? I think it should also be confined to skulks, as something like a fade and especially an onos doesn't rely on stealth as much.
I am also worried that it could make silence even more powerful. It would basically guarantee a bite from behind, as would camouflage.
It would be good if this were given to skulks with only certain base upgrades, like cara and celerity but would be lost as other evolutions were used. This would help with early game skulk domination too. Again, there are slight problems with this (it would encourage shift hives more than shades and maybe crags, which are already hardly used early game) but I think it's an interesting concept.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you serious?! that was his WORST idea! when a marine is attacked in the back he is already being punished... by the time he turns back, he is already dead..... and this gets worse when the bad performance gives your marine insta-kill bites...
- <b>Alien vision flickering</b>. This only started happening to me this patch. Insanely nauseating. Radeon 6850
- <b>Change the name of Ore Deposit back to Refinery</b> in mineshaft. Or change the name of Ore Extraction hive. Way too confusing to have both when everyone abbreviates locations. "Ore! Ore? Which ore?!"
- <b>Blink sound continues playing</b> for a few seconds after you've stopped blinking (sometimes)
- <b>Celerity speed whooshing sound plays while you are walking</b> as a skulk. Besides being annoying, it just doesn't make any sense because the skulk isn't going fast enough to justify hearing such a noise.
Otherwise, the game is looking fantastic!
I dunno, have you ever seen an Ostrich run? those are pretty fast for having two legs. Marines clearly spliced some Ostrich into themselves.
If the backstab mechanic could be an alien shade evolution... that would be pretty cool...
Wait, but then you wouldn't have silence or cloak, damn.
I just thought it would be cool to have something which can buff alien damage somehow.
It's a 100m hurdles olympic champion.
Added læwlz if he buys a welder and gets aggro while 2-3 people shoot at his feet,
But he's <i>running</i> and striving and hugging the turns,
And thinking of someone for whom he still burns.
He's going the distance.
He's going for speed.
(<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9ZgmG8oZ7o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9ZgmG8oZ7o</a>)
OK now someone make a video mmkay?
So after a lot of discussion, debate, fun and pain. All I ask is one thing from 224:
<b>Fix skulk bite</b> (and maybe prevent marines from endless jumping). Here's why...
1) I understand and support the competitive nature of the game. But I would place 'making it fun' over all else for release. You MUST have a good first impression for noobs to make this game successful and propagate the community.
2) Shooting as skulk as it approaches you typically is more performant (easier to react to) than up close combat. Frames drop and the marine doesn't just look like he's jumping around, he really is traveling a distance across your screen between frames. Melee combat in FPS is a unique experience for most and does require some skill, but shouldn't be a massive learning curve or feel frustrating to learn. In other words, noobs might feel it difficult, but shouldn't feel it impossible to bite.
3) After a lot of 223 play, I think the 8 bullet skulk kill <b><i>feels</i></b> right as a marine (13 with carapace). I wouldn't change it. But the level of difficulty in biting a marine right now is <b>VERY frustrating</b>. It needs to <b><i>feel</i></b> right. Not sure what needs to be done but the foundational combat mechanics for a unit should not be a discussion for balance. Balance should come some other way. Combat by itself should just feel correct (and satisfying). Each units combat mechanics should not be in question or doubt. If it's too easy for some, then re-balance (nerf) somewhere else.