<!--quoteo(post=1992054:date=Oct 15 2012, 09:05 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Oct 15 2012, 09:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992054"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In most team based games, most players think they're in an unwinnable situation (dota type games are a great example) when they're only behind. Take NS2, where most games are just one or two organized rushes away from victory, and you'll have the same F4 crowd throwing up concede votes and being negative nancys on mics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aaaand how many organized rushes do you see in pubs? Theres not one of those rushes for every fifty agonizing stalemates that you see that can be prevented by the auto concede function.
Had a funny game as an alien today. Aliens had 2 hives, Cara, Cele, Adre, bilebomb, blink. Marines made an ARC train, we killed it, Hive at 80%, I healed it up then. Couple of minutes later, next train, same hive. 7 out of 10 aliens F4ed. With two perfectly fine Hives and the knowledge that an ARC rush does not equal dead hive. Somehow the F4-thing became overused.
<!--quoteo(post=1991831:date=Oct 15 2012, 01:41 PM:name=Omega_K2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Omega_K2 @ Oct 15 2012, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1991831"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Random "fact": In 50% of cases I can tell with 90% accuracy within the first minutes of the game which team will lose/win on a pub server :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1991789:date=Oct 16 2012, 02:32 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Oct 16 2012, 02:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1991789"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just wish others who also want to have fun, and who also probably enjoy the last few seconds of a round wouldn't steal that experience away from other players (new players too..) all because they couldn't wait a little bit longer?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its not fun sitting in an egg insta dying from GL's, sorry but i dont understand why you want people to play just so you can have 5 mins of fun at the cost of some of the worst experience possible.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
God forbid you experience the losing moments...
See I just feel that behavior is the root of this issue, "I'm not having fun anymore.. So neither will you!" Its poor sportsmanship, plain and simple.. If you f4 just because you personally feel like you cant win, youve selfishly already hurt your team morale and effort as more are likely to join because it feels less and less likely theres a win when people keep quitting.. Despite options being on the table.
@chicken: nice try but no one was discussing 15 stalemates or turtles. See count basie's post. Also, any rts is a poor example as they aren't team oriented games with dozens of players who rely on you.. professional sports irl are a better example/analogy... And they don't allow early quitting?
Actually NOT conceding the game after you know you've lost is poor sportsmanship. I play a lot of team SC2 games and theres this one guy my friends always bring along that sits in the game after we've all GG'd saying "I just wanna do a bit more damage!" wasting all of our time. He reminds me of you I think.
Uh sorry but yes we are talking 15 minute stalemates, thats exactly what we're talking about. One person's anecdotal experience does not change the fact that once the losing team is determined it takes usually around 10-15 minutes for that team to lose. I cant count the amount of times the aliens have clearly won but cant muster the forces to bust into that last marine base. So annoying.
RTSs are at least more comparable to NS2 because of the snowballing (you wont see a bunch of marines with LMGs headshot and instakill a bunch of onos ever, just like you wont see 15 marines kill 8 ultralisks) and professional sports would be a good example if you threw out the word 'professional'. Think about how many bases loaded homeruns or last minute touchdowns you would see if just a bunch of random people got together to play baseball or football. Not too many right? It's the same with pug games of NS2. Only instead of everyone getting a fair shot still at the end of the game to get that home run or make that touchdown you're either getting spawn killed by fades or spawn killed by GLs. Neither of which are fun for 10-15 minutes.
What needs to happen instead of taking away the auto concede function is to make stalemates less horrible. I've offered a solution before in the form of more RTs = bigger numbers but that was shut down if I recall.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1991434:date=Oct 14 2012, 04:02 PM:name=Mango)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mango @ Oct 14 2012, 04:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1991434"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do we have this option? It is very abusive and everyone who is on the losing team uses it before the game is over. Making the teams very un-even and just killing the mood.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> theres the OP, chicken.. No mention of stalemates or turtles. No one has an issue with RRing during those times, so theres zero reason to bring them into discussion.
Regarding not conceding when its over.. That applies to highly coordinated competitive matches.. Not dozens of strangers without leadership.
And yes there is snowballing occasionally, but just like your own anecdotal evidence of stale mates, count basie and others like myself have seen many many games lately with people quitting when there its still plenty of room for winning still. (especially on pubs!!) And THAT is what upsets people above all else - the selfish uninformed and unwilling hurting the experience of others. I laugh when I see people f4 right when their hive begins to be assaulted.. Auto balance making it so fewer marines able to help end it sooner.... Their selfishness can currently make things take longer to end, potentially. Makes me wonder where all the CS players who waited for 10 minutes for a round to end went?
So we are in agreement that AutoTeam balance doesnt solve the issue, case closed.
People are going to F4 when the game is lost, its much different in a game like NS where losing generally has you at a significant tech disadvantage, and especially as aliens where lifeforms are quite rare, compared to a TDM game like say CS. In CS you may be playing a 5/1 disadvantage, but you still have a chance (similar to NS2), but your on even footing in a 1v1 situation still. You most likely will loose, but you still have a chance at getting an extra kill or two here to a single death. NS2 end game is pretty terrible IMO with higher tier aliens vs 2 tech point marines being a slugfest that can take forever to end, with countless alien deaths just rushing exos as a skulk or fail bilebomb rushes.. the game can realllllly drag out.
If you flash fade and die or loose your shotgun pres early it can be a real drag to keep playing in a game thats not going anywhere quickly.
So people wanting to end a losing game without having to wait 15 minutes are selfish, yet you're not selfish for wanting to make people (who are going to F4 anyways, you said so yourself) wait in the readyroom for those 15 while you spawn camp the other team until your team can finally get a bit of teamwork together and end it. What planet are you from where that isnt blatantly contradicting yourself?
The OP's post is an opinion. A wrong one too, more often than not people actually F4 when the game is pretty much over, not before. And if they dont? Guess whats called? A STALEMATE. For 10-15 minutes until the winning team finally pulls through. Call my experiences anecdotal all you want but ask anyone and they'll say they've been in more annoying stalemates getting killed over and over again than they've actually brought back a losing game. That is a fact. That is why the auto concede function is needed in this game.
Haha are you kidding dragon? In CS one person can potentially kill five people. Can one marine kill 3 fades and 2 onos? One skulk kill three exos and two JPers with shotties?
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Where do you keep getting this 15 minutes from? 15 minutes is a good portion of a game and in my experience is not representative of the amount of time it takes to finish off a base? .. Show me I'm wrong with a sample size of say, 10 or 20 videos of a minimum time of 15 minute averages to actually take down a hive (it starts when the assault enters the room) and i'll believe you..
Until then its anecdotal at best, as you said... Unless people feel that they can predict the loss so well and so early into a game that they don't want to wait the 15 minutes that it generally takes for the round to end naturally? That's not a stalemate, if that's the case, buddy.
Also where did i say that i "want to make people wait in the RR for 15 minutes" ? I think you misread what i said..
Oh and opinions can't be wrong, by definition they are subjective in nature.. but you knew that. I feel like I'm being baited now tho.. hrmm.. :-/
Really Chicken, the same arguments like in the other post just a week ago where you didn't know how to reply after they were refuted. Do I have to repeat myself? Grow up, learn to lose and show some sportmanship. You are the one who keeps posting his opinion all the time. Most games are not fun if you lose. If you like being called a quitter that's fine but don't try to justify your behaviour.
<!--quoteo(post=1992625:date=Oct 16 2012, 11:06 PM:name=bERt0r)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bERt0r @ Oct 16 2012, 11:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992625"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Really Chicken, the same arguments like in the other post just a week ago where you didn't know how to reply after they were refuted. Do I have to repeat myself? Grow up, learn to lose and show some sportmanship. You are the one who keeps posting his opinion all the time. Most games are not fun if you lose. If you like being called a quitter that's fine but don't try to justify your behaviour.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Care to give a few examples of 'how I was refuted' in 'some other post'? I don't even know why I'm replying to this since it's irrelevant to the current discussion. I've already explained that bowing out when you know you've lost is good sportsmanship, it is now YOUR job to come up with a reason why it isn't.
Yes, losing can be frustrating. Best just start a new game then, no?
I don't think the people making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year playing videogames that 'gg' and leave the game when they know they've lost have to explain their behavior to anyone, especially not the likes of you. Why should NS2 be any different?
<!--quoteo(post=1992612:date=Oct 16 2012, 10:51 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Oct 16 2012, 10:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992612"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Where do you keep getting this 15 minutes from? 15 minutes is a good portion of a game and in my experience is not representative of the amount of time it takes to finish off a base? .. Show me I'm wrong with a sample size of say, 10 or 20 videos of a minimum time of 15 minute averages to actually take down a hive (it starts when the assault enters the room) and i'll believe you..
Until then its anecdotal at best, as you said... Unless people feel that they can predict the loss so well and so early into a game that they don't want to wait the 15 minutes that it generally takes for the round to end naturally? That's not a stalemate, if that's the case, buddy.
Also where did i say that i "want to make people wait in the RR for 15 minutes" ? I think you misread what i said..
Oh and opinions can't be wrong, by definition they are subjective in nature.. but you knew that. I feel like I'm being baited now tho.. hrmm.. :-/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well buddy if we're going to play that game I challenge you to do the same thing with the videos to prove your point.
You said "No mention of stalemates or turtles. No one has an issue with RRing during those times, so theres zero reason to bring them into discussion." as in people will F4 if theres a stalemate whether theres an autoconcede function or not. Since you're for taking away the auto concede function, you want those people to stay in the readyroom till the stalemate is over or find another server. Selfish.
This is just getting ridiculous. I'm not baiting you on, you're just failing to comprehend my points. So I'll start over by stating my main point very simply and you can reply to that, and nothing else, for the sake of staying on track.
Stalemates = bad. Autoconcede breaks more stalemates than it causes early, undeserved loses. In fact the simple act of F4ing alone can cause a loss, with autoconcede rarely to blame. My question to you: Is it worth it to have to sit through the ass end of every single game, even if half your team has left? Do you really think its fair to not only make the half that F4'd wait until you've been slowly slaughtered but half of the enemy team as well?
You must be one of the people who drags a DOTA game to the very ending or fights till his last SCV in Starcraft, floating his command center around the map. Yes sometimes miraculous comebacks are possible, but at other times one team clearly seems to be losing, so what's the point of dragging the game on for another 5-10 minutes? It's easier to gg and start a new game, luck of the draw, maybe you'll win the new one. I'm just often amazed at how little some people's time is worth to them that they'd be willing to stay in a clearly lost game
<!--quoteo(post=1992727:date=Oct 17 2012, 03:01 AM:name=lolwow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolwow @ Oct 17 2012, 03:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992727"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You must be one of the people who drags a DOTA game to the very ending or fights till his last SCV in Starcraft, floating his command center around the map. Yes sometimes miraculous comebacks are possible, but at other times one team clearly seems to be losing, so what's the point of dragging the game on for another 5-10 minutes? It's easier to gg and start a new game, luck of the draw, maybe you'll win the new one. I'm just often amazed at how little some people's time is worth to them that they'd be willing to stay in a clearly lost game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think there's some brand new irony as of late with competitive games on "wasting time" while I lose at this <b>video game</b>.
<!--quoteo(post=1992730:date=Oct 17 2012, 04:07 AM:name=Fappuchino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fappuchino @ Oct 17 2012, 04:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992730"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think there's some brand new irony as of late with competitive games on "wasting time" while I lose at this <b>video game</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There's isn't much irony (look up the definition of the word by the way). We all play games to relax and kill some time (some do it obsessively but whatever). Most people come home from work and have a couple of free hours here and there. I want to spend that time in a game that I have at least a *chance* to win. So once that glimmer of chance is gone, just GG. Or do you REALLY love spamming GL in the marine base just to drag it out? The game is over, gg. I'd much rather be able to play 2-4 more games in the time it would take me to *maybe* win some drawn out game
This basically what it'll always boil down to: I'd rather play more games (and thus have more random chance to win) that 2 particularly long drawn out games. Especially considering this isn't counterstrike, where a game lasts 4 minutes tops. You're locked in for 10-40mins
<!--quoteo(post=1992733:date=Oct 17 2012, 03:17 AM:name=lolwow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolwow @ Oct 17 2012, 03:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992733"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's isn't much irony (look up the definition of the word by the way). We all play games to relax and kill some time (some do it obsessively but whatever). Most people come home from work and have a couple of free hours here and there. I want to spend that time in a game that I have at least a *chance* to win. So once that glimmer of chance is gone, just GG. Or do you REALLY love spamming GL in the marine base just to drag it out? The game is over, gg. I'd much rather be able to play 2-4 more games in the time it would take me to *maybe* win some drawn out game
This basically what it'll always boil down to: I'd rather play more games (and thus have more random chance to win) that 2 particularly long drawn out games. Especially considering this isn't counterstrike, where a game lasts 4 minutes tops. You're locked in for 10-40mins<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, I'm pretty sure irony was used correctly when some people justify cutting a game short because "you're wasting time". I have no problem with surrenders if it's dead obvious, but I've also played games where a comeback is entirely possible and yet...
I would say that F4ing within 10 minutes because you are clearly going to lose is respectable. After 10 minutes, the round moves into good game zone, and thus must be concluded with the elimination of the other team. The end of a round is an important and cinematic moment. If everyone F4d once they knew they were done, the end of the game would never be reached.
Let me summarize this discussion for you angry angry guys
Some people like to camp in base and play out their hopeless games Some people only have fun when they feel there is something on the line (usually the good players because this is what drives them to play and practice).
There should be a majority vote system so that we can decide fairly what to do in each game.
And some people press F4 when they get owned 3 times in a row while other people try to make a winning effort till the last minute. In NS1 this was beautifully regulated by Server Admins and I think this is the only way to solve this issues. I have no doubt that there will be servers with rules for the quitters and those who want to actually have a game where you give it all. @Chicken, my mistake, you only did this <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121347&view=findpost&p=1983396" target="_blank">single post</a> in that thread. Maybe you still should read it again. You did not explain anything, you gave your opinion on giving up again. This was already discussed in said thread. I summarize quickly: Teamsport: The team has to agree that the game is lost. A single player giving up hurts the team. Solo: It is your decision, you can quit whenever you want. Dota is a prime example, you leave 5v5 or 4v5 -> ban.
Btw: Anyone seen <a href="http://www.uefa.com/worldcup/season=2014/matches/round=2000294/match=2008588/postmatch/report/" target="_blank">Germany vs Sweden</a>? Sweden so should have given up after 4:0, right?
<!--quoteo(post=1992734:date=Oct 17 2012, 04:23 AM:name=Fappuchino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fappuchino @ Oct 17 2012, 04:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992734"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, I'm pretty sure irony was used correctly when some people justify cutting a game short because "you're wasting time". I have no problem with surrenders if it's dead obvious, but I've also played games where a comeback is entirely possible and yet...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If the choice is between forcing 8 people to waste 10-15 minutes ######ing around a hopeless and losing a couple of possible comeback games, I'll choose losing the possible comebacks. You'll forget those soon anyways but the pointless timewaste games will annoy you longer
Is there potential for abuse? Sure. But if 3-4 people are managing to screw over a whole server by always autoconceding for no good reason, just change the server or kick them. That's why maybe a vote_concede should exist, because when 1 or 2 guys F4 while there is no consensus that you want to surrender it screws up the game of the others while still dragging on the game. With a vote you can still keep playing on but if you see the team is not ready to surrender
<!--quoteo(post=1992734:date=Oct 17 2012, 03:23 AM:name=Fappuchino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fappuchino @ Oct 17 2012, 03:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992734"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, I'm pretty sure irony was used correctly when some people justify cutting a game short because "you're wasting time". I have no problem with surrenders if it's dead obvious, but I've also played games where a comeback is entirely possible and yet...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The grammar police got you today I'm afraid. It would be ironic if the attempt to not waste time in fact caused the player to waste time, but since 95% of the interwebz uses ironic in a colloquial sense to mean seems odd or coincidental it barely matters what it actually means.
<!--quoteo(post=1991446:date=Oct 14 2012, 06:31 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Oct 14 2012, 06:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1991446"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->add a callvote: concede, f1 = yes f2 = no, if above 50% losing team gives up
remove ability to return to ready room.
problem completely solved
also, callvote elect commander "name"
callvote impeach commander "name"
callvote map (think its already in)
callvote nextmap
callvote scramble teams
callvote even teams
callvote kick "name"
callvote ban "name"
callvote restartmatch
just add all this ######, it's not complicated and it would go a long way lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This WOULD go a long way.
Just not the callvote ban i can see that getting abused.
<!--quoteo(post=1991789:date=Oct 15 2012, 12:32 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Oct 15 2012, 12:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1991789"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont get this... as this may be the case in comp games, but does not apply in public games.
Myself, as well as some others i know actually want to finish a game.. like actually enjoy the ending moments of blowing up your base? I consider that to be fun and the apex of a round.. something i've helped earn - Not some automatic win and then a splash screen?
I just wish others who also want to have fun, and who also probably enjoy the last few seconds of a round wouldn't steal that experience away from other players (new players too..) all because they couldn't wait a little bit longer?
Everyone plays to have fun.. so the few moments you aren't cant you guys just suck it up and allow the other team to have theirs that they have earned?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree completely, however there are games where the winning team doesn't coordinate a proper push. It happens a lot. I've played a losing game where it was 1 tech point to 4 and yet the game played out for an extra 10 minutes because the enemy didn't know how to end the game.
I feel there should be a surrender vote. Around 60% would need to vote yes for a surrender, you can't surrender before 10 minutes or if your team has two or more tech points.
Oh and of course F4 shouldn't be removed, it's got more uses than just giving up. However I do feel RR should have an auto kick of 2 minutes or so, only if a game is going though so post game chat can happen if the players like.
<!--quoteo(post=1992743:date=Oct 17 2012, 01:59 PM:name=statikg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (statikg @ Oct 17 2012, 01:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let me summarize this discussion for you angry angry guys
Some people like to camp in base and play out their hopeless games Some people only have fun when they feel there is something on the line (usually the good players because this is what drives them to play and practice).
There should be a majority vote system so that we can decide fairly what to do in each game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nice idea. This may help. But in the end it is dead simple. If I don't want to play a (in my eyes) lost game, you can't force me. I will F4, change server or simply play another game if you try.
Comments
Aaaand how many organized rushes do you see in pubs? Theres not one of those rushes for every fifty agonizing stalemates that you see that can be prevented by the auto concede function.
Lesser of two evils in my opinion.
nobody would F4 if you got steamrolled when you have won
Marines made an ARC train, we killed it, Hive at 80%, I healed it up then. Couple of minutes later, next train, same hive. 7 out of 10 aliens F4ed. With two perfectly fine Hives and the knowledge that an ARC rush does not equal dead hive. Somehow the F4-thing became overused.
So: The OP might be right.
<img src="http://t.qkme.me/3przuh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Its not fun sitting in an egg insta dying from GL's, sorry but i dont understand why you want people to play just so you can have 5 mins of fun at the cost of some of the worst experience possible.
See I just feel that behavior is the root of this issue, "I'm not having fun anymore.. So neither will you!"
Its poor sportsmanship, plain and simple..
If you f4 just because you personally feel like you cant win, youve selfishly already hurt your team morale and effort as more are likely to join because it feels less and less likely theres a win when people keep quitting.. Despite options being on the table.
@chicken: nice try but no one was discussing 15 stalemates or turtles. See count basie's post.
Also, any rts is a poor example as they aren't team oriented games with dozens of players who rely on you.. professional sports irl are a better example/analogy... And they don't allow early quitting?
Uh sorry but yes we are talking 15 minute stalemates, thats exactly what we're talking about. One person's anecdotal experience does not change the fact that once the losing team is determined it takes usually around 10-15 minutes for that team to lose. I cant count the amount of times the aliens have clearly won but cant muster the forces to bust into that last marine base. So annoying.
RTSs are at least more comparable to NS2 because of the snowballing (you wont see a bunch of marines with LMGs headshot and instakill a bunch of onos ever, just like you wont see 15 marines kill 8 ultralisks) and professional sports would be a good example if you threw out the word 'professional'. Think about how many bases loaded homeruns or last minute touchdowns you would see if just a bunch of random people got together to play baseball or football. Not too many right? It's the same with pug games of NS2. Only instead of everyone getting a fair shot still at the end of the game to get that home run or make that touchdown you're either getting spawn killed by fades or spawn killed by GLs. Neither of which are fun for 10-15 minutes.
What needs to happen instead of taking away the auto concede function is to make stalemates less horrible. I've offered a solution before in the form of more RTs = bigger numbers but that was shut down if I recall.
theres the OP, chicken.. No mention of stalemates or turtles. No one has an issue with RRing during those times, so theres zero reason to bring them into discussion.
Regarding not conceding when its over.. That applies to highly coordinated competitive matches.. Not dozens of strangers without leadership.
And yes there is snowballing occasionally, but just like your own anecdotal evidence of stale mates, count basie and others like myself have seen many many games lately with people quitting when there its still plenty of room for winning still. (especially on pubs!!) And THAT is what upsets people above all else - the selfish uninformed and unwilling hurting the experience of others. I laugh when I see people f4 right when their hive begins to be assaulted.. Auto balance making it so fewer marines able to help end it sooner.... Their selfishness can currently make things take longer to end, potentially. Makes me wonder where all the CS players who waited for 10 minutes for a round to end went?
People are going to F4 when the game is lost, its much different in a game like NS where losing generally has you at a significant tech disadvantage, and especially as aliens where lifeforms are quite rare, compared to a TDM game like say CS. In CS you may be playing a 5/1 disadvantage, but you still have a chance (similar to NS2), but your on even footing in a 1v1 situation still. You most likely will loose, but you still have a chance at getting an extra kill or two here to a single death. NS2 end game is pretty terrible IMO with higher tier aliens vs 2 tech point marines being a slugfest that can take forever to end, with countless alien deaths just rushing exos as a skulk or fail bilebomb rushes.. the game can realllllly drag out.
If you flash fade and die or loose your shotgun pres early it can be a real drag to keep playing in a game thats not going anywhere quickly.
TLDR - 500 tres nuke/babblerking.
The OP's post is an opinion. A wrong one too, more often than not people actually F4 when the game is pretty much over, not before. And if they dont? Guess whats called? A STALEMATE. For 10-15 minutes until the winning team finally pulls through. Call my experiences anecdotal all you want but ask anyone and they'll say they've been in more annoying stalemates getting killed over and over again than they've actually brought back a losing game. That is a fact. That is why the auto concede function is needed in this game.
Haha are you kidding dragon? In CS one person can potentially kill five people. Can one marine kill 3 fades and 2 onos? One skulk kill three exos and two JPers with shotties?
Until then its anecdotal at best, as you said... Unless people feel that they can predict the loss so well and so early into a game that they don't want to wait the 15 minutes that it generally takes for the round to end naturally? That's not a stalemate, if that's the case, buddy.
Also where did i say that i "want to make people wait in the RR for 15 minutes" ? I think you misread what i said..
Oh and opinions can't be wrong, by definition they are subjective in nature.. but you knew that.
I feel like I'm being baited now tho.. hrmm.. :-/
Care to give a few examples of 'how I was refuted' in 'some other post'? I don't even know why I'm replying to this since it's irrelevant to the current discussion. I've already explained that bowing out when you know you've lost is good sportsmanship, it is now YOUR job to come up with a reason why it isn't.
Yes, losing can be frustrating. Best just start a new game then, no?
I don't think the people making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year playing videogames that 'gg' and leave the game when they know they've lost have to explain their behavior to anyone, especially not the likes of you. Why should NS2 be any different?
Until then its anecdotal at best, as you said... Unless people feel that they can predict the loss so well and so early into a game that they don't want to wait the 15 minutes that it generally takes for the round to end naturally? That's not a stalemate, if that's the case, buddy.
Also where did i say that i "want to make people wait in the RR for 15 minutes" ? I think you misread what i said..
Oh and opinions can't be wrong, by definition they are subjective in nature.. but you knew that.
I feel like I'm being baited now tho.. hrmm.. :-/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well buddy if we're going to play that game I challenge you to do the same thing with the videos to prove your point.
You said "No mention of stalemates or turtles. No one has an issue with RRing during those times, so theres zero reason to bring them into discussion." as in people will F4 if theres a stalemate whether theres an autoconcede function or not. Since you're for taking away the auto concede function, you want those people to stay in the readyroom till the stalemate is over or find another server. Selfish.
This is just getting ridiculous. I'm not baiting you on, you're just failing to comprehend my points. So I'll start over by stating my main point very simply and you can reply to that, and nothing else, for the sake of staying on track.
Stalemates = bad. Autoconcede breaks more stalemates than it causes early, undeserved loses. In fact the simple act of F4ing alone can cause a loss, with autoconcede rarely to blame. My question to you: Is it worth it to have to sit through the ass end of every single game, even if half your team has left? Do you really think its fair to not only make the half that F4'd wait until you've been slowly slaughtered but half of the enemy team as well?
Say whhaaaa?
No?...
*backs away slowly*
No?...
*backs away slowly*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...so you think autoconcede should stay in the game?? What are your posts arguing then? o.O
Yes sometimes miraculous comebacks are possible, but at other times one team clearly seems to be losing, so what's the point of dragging the game on for another 5-10 minutes? It's easier to gg and start a new game, luck of the draw, maybe you'll win the new one.
I'm just often amazed at how little some people's time is worth to them that they'd be willing to stay in a clearly lost game
Yes sometimes miraculous comebacks are possible, but at other times one team clearly seems to be losing, so what's the point of dragging the game on for another 5-10 minutes? It's easier to gg and start a new game, luck of the draw, maybe you'll win the new one.
I'm just often amazed at how little some people's time is worth to them that they'd be willing to stay in a clearly lost game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think there's some brand new irony as of late with competitive games on "wasting time" while I lose at this <b>video game</b>.
There's isn't much irony (look up the definition of the word by the way). We all play games to relax and kill some time (some do it obsessively but whatever). Most people come home from work and have a couple of free hours here and there. I want to spend that time in a game that I have at least a *chance* to win. So once that glimmer of chance is gone, just GG. Or do you REALLY love spamming GL in the marine base just to drag it out? The game is over, gg. I'd much rather be able to play 2-4 more games in the time it would take me to *maybe* win some drawn out game
This basically what it'll always boil down to: I'd rather play more games (and thus have more random chance to win) that 2 particularly long drawn out games. Especially considering this isn't counterstrike, where a game lasts 4 minutes tops. You're locked in for 10-40mins
This basically what it'll always boil down to: I'd rather play more games (and thus have more random chance to win) that 2 particularly long drawn out games. Especially considering this isn't counterstrike, where a game lasts 4 minutes tops. You're locked in for 10-40mins<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I'm pretty sure irony was used correctly when some people justify cutting a game short because "you're wasting time". I have no problem with surrenders if it's dead obvious, but I've also played games where a comeback is entirely possible and yet...
Some people like to camp in base and play out their hopeless games
Some people only have fun when they feel there is something on the line (usually the good players because this is what drives them to play and practice).
There should be a majority vote system so that we can decide fairly what to do in each game.
In NS1 this was beautifully regulated by Server Admins and I think this is the only way to solve this issues. I have no doubt that there will be servers with rules for the quitters and those who want to actually have a game where you give it all.
@Chicken, my mistake, you only did this <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121347&view=findpost&p=1983396" target="_blank">single post</a> in that thread. Maybe you still should read it again. You did not explain anything, you gave your opinion on giving up again. This was already discussed in said thread.
I summarize quickly:
Teamsport: The team has to agree that the game is lost. A single player giving up hurts the team.
Solo: It is your decision, you can quit whenever you want.
Dota is a prime example, you leave 5v5 or 4v5 -> ban.
Btw: Anyone seen <a href="http://www.uefa.com/worldcup/season=2014/matches/round=2000294/match=2008588/postmatch/report/" target="_blank">Germany vs Sweden</a>? Sweden so should have given up after 4:0, right?
If the choice is between forcing 8 people to waste 10-15 minutes ######ing around a hopeless and losing a couple of possible comeback games, I'll choose losing the possible comebacks. You'll forget those soon anyways but the pointless timewaste games will annoy you longer
Is there potential for abuse? Sure. But if 3-4 people are managing to screw over a whole server by always autoconceding for no good reason, just change the server or kick them. That's why maybe a vote_concede should exist, because when 1 or 2 guys F4 while there is no consensus that you want to surrender it screws up the game of the others while still dragging on the game. With a vote you can still keep playing on but if you see the team is not ready to surrender
The grammar police got you today I'm afraid. It would be ironic if the attempt to not waste time in fact caused the player to waste time, but since 95% of the interwebz uses ironic in a colloquial sense to mean seems odd or coincidental it barely matters what it actually means.
remove ability to return to ready room.
problem completely solved
also, callvote elect commander "name"
callvote impeach commander "name"
callvote map (think its already in)
callvote nextmap
callvote scramble teams
callvote even teams
callvote kick "name"
callvote ban "name"
callvote restartmatch
just add all this ######, it's not complicated and it would go a long way lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This WOULD go a long way.
Just not the callvote ban i can see that getting abused.
Myself, as well as some others i know actually want to finish a game.. like actually enjoy the ending moments of blowing up your base? I consider that to be fun and the apex of a round.. something i've helped earn - Not some automatic win and then a splash screen?
I just wish others who also want to have fun, and who also probably enjoy the last few seconds of a round wouldn't steal that experience away from other players (new players too..) all because they couldn't wait a little bit longer?
Everyone plays to have fun.. so the few moments you aren't cant you guys just suck it up and allow the other team to have theirs that they have earned?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree completely, however there are games where the winning team doesn't coordinate a proper push. It happens a lot. I've played a losing game where it was 1 tech point to 4 and yet the game played out for an extra 10 minutes because the enemy didn't know how to end the game.
I feel there should be a surrender vote. Around 60% would need to vote yes for a surrender, you can't surrender before 10 minutes or if your team has two or more tech points.
Oh and of course F4 shouldn't be removed, it's got more uses than just giving up. However I do feel RR should have an auto kick of 2 minutes or so, only if a game is going though so post game chat can happen if the players like.
Some people like to camp in base and play out their hopeless games
Some people only have fun when they feel there is something on the line (usually the good players because this is what drives them to play and practice).
There should be a majority vote system so that we can decide fairly what to do in each game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice idea. This may help. But in the end it is dead simple. If I don't want to play a (in my eyes) lost game, you can't force me. I will F4, change server or simply play another game if you try.
You can't force people to play with you.
/thread.