Movement in 222

male_fatalitiesmale_fatalities ausns2.org Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27185Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Great work UWE!!!!</div>Hi UWE,

B222 is by far the best build I've seen for movement in a long time.

<b>Marines</b>
Yes!

No deaccel/accel when changing between strafe keys
Ability to chain jumps off different surfaces

This has literally made marines so much better. They feel responsive, like I'm finally playing a twitch shooter and not ghost recon / insert realism game.

<b>Aliens</b>

Walljump
It might not of been how I would implement it, but it seems to be doing its job quite well.
- You can chain jumps along the ground and maintain speed 9
- You can drop down from medium heights to get speed 11 and maintain it by walljumping

Great job!

Bite
I know this is not related to movement, but I just want to say bite right now feels perfect. Have to be quite precise with your bite aim, so it rewards skilled skulks and punishes skulks who hold mouse 1. This is great!

Fade
Blink feel so good. You reverted the changes!

Thank you

Great patch UWE. Its certainly not as much as I would like, but your going in the right direction now. The game just got harder :) grats

Comments

  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    The current bite is unacceptable given how big the skulk models are, if you want to make them require more accuracy, at least make the hit-boxes smaller so playing skulk is more forgiving.
  • male_fatalitiesmale_fatalities ausns2.org Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27185Members, Constellation
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1990186:date=Oct 12 2012, 08:25 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 12 2012, 08:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990186"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The current bite is unacceptable given how big the skulk models are, if you want to make them require more accuracy, at least make the hit-boxes smaller so playing skulk is more forgiving.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'll be making a video shortly showcasing the speed / utility the new ceiling drop / walljump combo can create. It's not 216 crazy speed 20 style, but its very strong.
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    What use is greater speed when greater speed makes it more difficult for you to accurately land hits?
  • TrCTrC Join Date: 2008-11-30 Member: 65612Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1990203:date=Oct 12 2012, 01:56 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 12 2012, 01:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990203"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What use is greater speed when greater speed makes it more difficult for you to accurately land hits?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Closing the distance, traveling, dodging.

    Tracking bites is part of the skill.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    edited October 2012
    I'm also satisfied with the current mechanics.

    Just two things: With the lerk you can actually get a little faster by looking at the ground (20-30°) and spamming space. Just like you can glide against walls for ever and keep your speed.
  • duvelduvel Join Date: 2004-02-09 Member: 26318Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1990215:date=Oct 12 2012, 01:22 PM:name=Bicsum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bicsum @ Oct 12 2012, 01:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990215"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm also satisfied with the current mechanics.

    Just two things: With the lerk you can actually get a little faster by looking at the ground (20-30°) and spamming space. Just like you can glide against walls for ever and keep your speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I don't like the sound of this.

    In my opinion, flapping should hamper your forward velocity, and be used primarily to get side to side movement, and to gain height. Gliding should be optimal for gaining speed, though trying to use it for side to side movement, or using it to gain height, should result in significant slow down.
  • KuddlyKalliKuddlyKalli Yuggera Country Join Date: 2010-12-23 Member: 75905Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    <!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->Skulk movement sounds okay. I have a headache tonight and can't test it, but I did see mf using it.

    Nice that you added it in, UWE, but why no feedback sounds? That combined with a lack of mention in the patch notes will cause a lot of people to assume nothing was changed. Fix this ASAP please.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
  • RegnarebRegnareb Join Date: 2007-08-26 Member: 62008Members, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1990203:date=Oct 12 2012, 12:56 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 12 2012, 12:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990203"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What use is greater speed when greater speed makes it more difficult for you to accurately land hits?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Have you played the build? Because for me it's actually a lot easier to land bits in this one, a lot more enjoying too because spaming mouse1 is even more useless than before.
  • male_fatalitiesmale_fatalities ausns2.org Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27185Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1990224:date=Oct 12 2012, 09:37 PM:name=Kallistrate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kallistrate @ Oct 12 2012, 09:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990224"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->Skulk movement sounds okay. I have a headache tonight and can't test it, but I did see mf using it.

    Nice that you added it in, UWE, but why no feedback sounds? That combined with a lack of mention in the patch notes will cause a lot of people to assume nothing was changed. Fix this ASAP please.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You don't get speed from walljumping anymore, you get speed from ceiling drop. You use walljump to maintain the speed, hence no reason for the old walljump feedback sound.

    It goes:

    Ceiling drop > walljump > walljump to ceiling > ceiling drop

    You can also maintain speed 9 by walljump > 45 degree angle to floor > walljump
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/C6SnLwWQq_0"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/C6SnLwWQq_0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
  • TacotaTacota Join Date: 2009-10-12 Member: 69027Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1990220:date=Oct 12 2012, 07:32 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 12 2012, 07:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990220"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't like the sound of this.

    In my opinion, flapping should hamper your forward velocity, and be used primarily to get side to side movement, and to gain height. Gliding should be optimal for gaining speed, though trying to use it for side to side movement, or using it to gain height, should result in significant slow down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Yeah flapping may cause you to lose forward velocity when sitting level, but think of how it works when you are aiming down. Think of a helicopter. If you are aiming down a bit, you should be able to gain speed by flapping. It is pulling you up, which is also angled forwards when aiming down.
  • statikgstatikg Join Date: 2012-09-19 Member: 159978Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1990242:date=Oct 12 2012, 04:10 AM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 12 2012, 04:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990242"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't get speed from walljumping anymore, you get speed from ceiling drop. You use walljump to maintain the speed, hence no reason for the old walljump feedback sound.

    It goes:

    Ceiling drop > walljump > walljump to ceiling > ceiling drop

    You can also maintain speed 9 by walljump > 45 degree angle to floor > walljump<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Its probably easiest to just try it out but I'm at work ;p can you explain a little more how this is done?

    You hit the jump key from the ceiling onto the wall where you need to immediately hit jump again to go back to the ceiling (or floor) - is there a little bit of leeway on the timing or is it like bhop on the wall kind of?
  • AgielAgiel Join Date: 2006-11-14 Member: 58605Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
    What he's saying is floor -> wall -> wall -> ceiling -> floor -> repeat. I find it's often enough to go floor -> wall -> floor or possibly even wall -> wall -> wall, as in this build (as opposed to 221) you do get a speed boost from walljumps and not just a flat minimum speed. And yes, there is a short window where you don't lose speed after you touch the floor or wall.
  • KuddlyKalliKuddlyKalli Yuggera Country Join Date: 2010-12-23 Member: 75905Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1990242:date=Oct 12 2012, 10:10 PM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 12 2012, 10:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990242"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't get speed from walljumping anymore, you get speed from ceiling drop. You use walljump to maintain the speed, hence no reason for the old walljump feedback sound.

    It goes:

    Ceiling drop > walljump > walljump to ceiling > ceiling drop

    You can also maintain speed 9 by walljump > 45 degree angle to floor > walljump<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->I understand what you're saying, but there should still be some kind of feedback.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1990290:date=Oct 12 2012, 03:56 PM:name=Tacota)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tacota @ Oct 12 2012, 03:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990290"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah flapping may cause you to lose forward velocity when sitting level, but think of how it works when you are aiming down. Think of a helicopter. If you are aiming down a bit, you should be able to gain speed by flapping. It is pulling you up, which is also angled forwards when aiming down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That would be fine if the lerk was a helicopter, and he gained momentum via a spinning rotor. With wings, however, they need to be drawn up, and if you are angled downwards, drawing your wings up means pulling them directly against the current of air passing over you, stopping you dead, if not breaking your wings off.
  • HeavenOrHellHeavenOrHell Join Date: 2012-10-07 Member: 161756Members
    Any knows if the fall speed works on jetpacking marines?
    I don't have the beta and on a completely unrelated note, I need more NS2 vids to satisfy my cravings
    NS2HD and unknownworlds isn't enough
  • supsusupsu Join Date: 2012-04-24 Member: 151023Members, Squad Five Blue
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1990211:date=Oct 12 2012, 07:08 AM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Oct 12 2012, 07:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990211"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Closing the distance, traveling, dodging.

    Tracking bites is part of the skill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Tell that to the ethereal marines skulks keep phasing through.
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Yea as long as they don't fix these ridiculous collision boxes skulk at higher speeds just feels like its roller-skating around and into marines. Marines magically appearing on skulk heads is just terrible, it doesn't happen.
  • weezlweezl Join Date: 2008-07-04 Member: 64557Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I personally HATE the new marine movement from the skulks (aliens) POV! (and don't notice anything from marine POV)
    Marines have INFINITE f-ing acceleration, meaning they can at any moment MIRROR their speed in the opposite direction! This is absolutely RIDICULOUS when playing as skulk and trying to land bites as marine movement is 100% unpredictable! Combine with the jumping of 3m and by the time I manage to get to a marine, he magically teleports making me need to spend another 0.5s to get to him again all while he can fire 5 more bullets, doing potentially 50 more dmg.
    Marines are supposed to be the non-agile ones relying on ranged attacks, and aliens having to come into melee range but having all kinds of powerful movement abilities to do so. Now marines have both. WTF (first contradiction)

    Sure NS1 had the same thing, but the biting was much MUCH easier to land, skulk was smaller, and it worked - in NS2 it DOESN'T work!

    If this is the direction the game is to go, then why in the world was the twitchy/irratic/random skulk model animation improved???????
    That's two contradictions!
  • Wyattx3Wyattx3 Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18386Members
    This last patch is near unplayable for me... jerky and unresponsive, the sudden dips in skulk movement speed are real awkward, and lerk seems to crash into the air and stutter about...
  • clowning-aroundclowning-around Join Date: 2009-05-28 Member: 67495Members
    UWE this is a fantastic patch! Finally aliens have skill-based movement again.

    Skulks are now viable before leap against reasonable marines, meaning the second hive rush isn't necessary.

    The bite is perfect now too, it should be small and require alien players to accurately land bites. After all, marines can't just walk in to a room and spray bullets praying something hits (aliens shouldn't either just spam attack).

    Great work UWE, great work!
  • SopsSops Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17894Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1990324:date=Oct 12 2012, 09:58 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 12 2012, 09:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990324"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That would be fine if the lerk was a helicopter, and he gained momentum via a spinning rotor. With wings, however, they need to be drawn up, and if you are angled downwards, <u>drawing your wings up means pulling them directly against the current of air passing over you</u>, stopping you dead, if not breaking your wings off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I have no experience with ornithopters, maybe I am missing something obvious but if you are in a dive the relative wind should still be parallel to the wing.
  • countbasiecountbasie Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1990266:date=Oct 12 2012, 01:09 PM:name=Bicsum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bicsum @ Oct 12 2012, 01:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990266"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/C6SnLwWQq_0"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/C6SnLwWQq_0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    So it's practically impossible to lose speed?
  • MisterNubsMisterNubs Join Date: 2012-03-01 Member: 147912Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1990266:date=Oct 12 2012, 09:09 AM:name=Bicsum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bicsum @ Oct 12 2012, 09:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990266"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lerk video<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Patch 224
    Lerk speed has been reduced from 11 to 6.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1990688:date=Oct 13 2012, 06:02 AM:name=countbasie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (countbasie @ Oct 13 2012, 06:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990688"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So it's practically impossible to lose speed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    pretty much, yes.
  • hakenspithakenspit Join Date: 2010-11-26 Member: 75300Members
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1990680:date=Oct 13 2012, 01:02 PM:name=clowning-around)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clowning-around @ Oct 13 2012, 01:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990680"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->UWE this is a fantastic patch! Finally aliens have skill-based movement again.

    Skulks are now viable before leap against reasonable marines, meaning the second hive rush isn't necessary.

    The bite is perfect now too, it should be small and require alien players to accurately land bites. After all, marines can't just walk in to a room and spray bullets praying something hits (aliens shouldn't either just spam attack).

    Great work UWE, great work!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You forgot /end sarcasm.

    We all know because the games asymmetrical only 1 side can have spam weapons...and thats marines.
    GL's....
    Flamers....
    SG's (just point in general direction and it will hit)
    Exo's (limitless amo)
    space bar spam (for free knockback life saving moves)

    Clearly the idea of just pressing a button and watching the other side die has been taken by the marines.

    Simply jumping up a ramp means no issues spamming jump, marines move better than skulks do.
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Skulks are now viable before leap against reasonable marines, meaning the second hive rush isn't necessary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wow, you really ARE clowning around. Aliens (and skulks) pre T2 are NOT fine, to even suggest that is ridiculous.
  • male_fatalitiesmale_fatalities ausns2.org Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27185Members, Constellation
    Why do I have a feeling U 2 are on the lower end of the skill bracket. I would love to see U beat my vanilla skulk with ceiling drop + walljump combo and say its easy.
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