Please don't release NS2 until it is ready.

antacidantacid Join Date: 2007-08-07 Member: 61821Members, NS2 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">It has been in development for too long for that.</div>First impressions are going to make or break this game on release date. So I ask you guys, please wait it out if you have to. An extra month of polish is 100x better than releasing an incomplete game.
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Comments

  • uffouffo Join Date: 2003-05-03 Member: 16026Members
    Yeah, let's release only when the version is somewhere around 3.0. Games like NS are never "complete".
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
    Too late for a change now. They've announced it on Steam. The best we can do is roll with the release that's been established.
  • GraydeeusGraydeeus Join Date: 2012-09-07 Member: 158450Members
    You can't develop a game forever. You have to draw a line in the sand and release it then, for better or worse. NS2 has already been delayed. But it is also very close to solidly playable. There are certain elements that still need polishing and the performance still need to improve quite a bit (though there is still time). If they didn't think they could do it by october they'd probably not have set the date to be october. Plus crunch time and a shift towards working on just speeding it up will cause a big increase in performance over the final patches.
  • digzdigz be still, maggot Join Date: 2002-05-07 Member: 588Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    This is the I&S forum... and the majority of the beta feedback is that we have a pretty polished game for an initial release.
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES&#33; FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS&#33; Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    According to whom, may i ask?
  • Silent262Silent262 Join Date: 2012-09-21 Member: 160267Members
    While there are certain optimizations yet to be made, NS2 is actually in a much better state than many games I have played at "launch".

    Unfortunately, due to the ever evolving nature of the game, when "ready" is reached is very subjective. Granted, when the game was a slideshow it wasn't ready at all. That being said, I would not regret paying NS2's current price for the product "as is" (though I suppose the goal is to make the game seem like a great value, and have customers feel it is the best money they have spent on a game in a while).
  • GrimfangGrimfang Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13086Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I think that the biggest problem is that many of us have seen it in beta for a very long time, and seen that it can change and be improved over time. I guess everyone agrees so far. So the question is probably whether it's ready or not. I think that if you compare to another game on the market, you would say it's ready. However since we are used to the game evolving over time, most of us would like it to get just a bit better.

    I think what we need right now is to let the people who have bought the game on steam try it out, and we need to be able to gift this to our friends. It's been said a lot of times, that it will continue to be improved and expanded upon, so I don't think we have to be too focused on what happens the first week it's out. I think this game will grow in time, as most games do.
  • IllidanIllidan Join Date: 2003-08-17 Member: 19861Members
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1986396:date=Oct 2 2012, 08:54 PM:name=digz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (digz @ Oct 2 2012, 08:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986396"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is the I&S forum... and the majority of the beta feedback is that we have a pretty polished game for an initial release.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The majority of the beta feedback is that ns2 needs a far better working menu than in the current stage. Just like menumod, but integrated.

    =========

    +1 for Grimfang's post :-)
  • EvoluteEvolute Join Date: 2012-10-03 Member: 161361Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Honestly even though I bought the game through Steam. I am okay with waiting until the devs think its ready. But it would be nice to have a pre-install of the textures and music/sounds. And a rough countdown timer even if it is set to 2 weeks from now and edited down later. At the very least it would seem like they are getting close and we could have a goal to look forward to.
    I've been in a couple beta's myself and know the feeling of just wanting a little more time to workout the kinks. Like a said before I'm okay to wait for that. But most Steam users are just looking for a sliver of something. It doesn't help that most games that say they will be available on a certain month have come out on the 1st. This game has been one of few that had the goal of late October. Naturally some people are going to be angry and they'll yell the loudest.
    So please make sure you've got the game as close to what you want it to be as you can. Just throw us a bone, that's really all we're asking for.

    Kind Regards,

    Evolute
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1986396:date=Oct 2 2012, 05:54 PM:name=digz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (digz @ Oct 2 2012, 05:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986396"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is the I&S forum... and the majority of the beta feedback is that we have a pretty polished game for an initial release.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Where is this feedback?

    There are plenty of things that are basic, frustrating that they aren't there, and need to be implemented better.
  • antacidantacid Join Date: 2007-08-07 Member: 61821Members, NS2 Playtester
    edited October 2012
    My main concern is the menus and overall presentation of the startup interface. I know it will probably be much different at launch, but for example the current server browser is unacceptable and the actual game interface is bare-bones at best.
  • rinerriner Join Date: 2010-01-04 Member: 69881Members
    Since all the features are now implemented, the only thing left is some optimizations and bugs fixes, as a programmer i know bugs ocurrs when you implement, when you dont have anything more to "add" you can focus only on the actual stuff.

    Its going to be all right guys!
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Agreed. Don't release without integrating the menumod and getting the server performance at least 50% better. 16 Players should be possible for a not overclocked server with steady tickrate even in the end game. Also without a way to inform players over servers that can't handle the player-amount they are configured to, many players will quit the game thinking it has horrible performance / netcode and won't come back.
  • SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Natural selection ensures that the game will evolve towards perfection past 1.0 by keeping/refining features that are liked. But you can't expect it to be a perfect being when it's discovered.

    Evolution takes time, so hopefully people will be patient. :)
  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1986558:date=Oct 3 2012, 01:26 PM:name=Skie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skie @ Oct 3 2012, 01:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Evolution takes time, so hopefully people will be patient. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    waiting few million years might run thin on your patients! But on more serious note, people just worried if this gets released with bad performance it would ruin the game, and servers will end up being what they are now. (only handful of servers, but mostly completely empty)

    First impressions of the game is big deal, so if people start playing and notice how bad something is, chances are they will leave.

    it might be released closer to October, to coinside with original NS1 release date, if not December? (happy new year? haha)
  • SewlekSewlek The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1986532:date=Oct 3 2012, 06:45 AM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Oct 3 2012, 06:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My main concern is the menus and overall presentation of the startup interface. I know it will probably be much different at launch, but for example the current server browser is unacceptable and the actual game interface is bare-bones at best.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    server browser shows entries now instantly (no more hitching) and has filter options (+ tick rate!).
  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    That's nice to hear, but I assume something as basic as access to server game information (such as which players are playing on the server, how long the round has been going, and so forth) is still not available.

    On topic: We talk a lot about problematic features, bugs and balance issues on this forum, but for me, the biggest worry is server performance. If it isn't improved to the level where it's possible for non-OCed computers to host 14+ player games, it is going to be a very rocky launch -- potentially leading to bad PR and poor reviews.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    I think most of the issues in the game (not balance related) can probably be traced back to the server performance. Missed bullets etc, I really believe that sorting out the server code will provide the smooth experience that most gamers are looking for. Client hitches are still there occassionally, but the server seems to control most of the aspects I personally have issues with in NS2.

    In my mods where I have dramatically cut down on the server code, performance, and hit-reg seem to be much improved. Any way to tighten up the AI code perhaps? This is primarily what I remove from my mods, along with models, and the performance improvement is extremely noticable. Movement physics still seem a bit buggy though.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Join Date: 2005-05-15 Member: 51659
    Everyone will forget postponed release dates when the game was worth it, but especially for MP games too early releases are nearly a death sentence.

    I'm glad concerning the browser filters though. In the QnA it sounded as they won't come for 1.0. People would have ripped UWE apart for that.
  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1986585:date=Oct 4 2012, 01:42 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Oct 4 2012, 01:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986585"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's nice to hear, but I assume something as basic as access to server game information (such as which players are playing on the server, how long the round has been going, and so forth) is still not available.

    On topic: We talk a lot about problematic features, bugs and balance issues on this forum, but for me, the biggest worry is server performance. If it isn't improved to the level where it's possible for non-OCed computers to host 14+ player games, it is going to be a very rocky launch -- potentially leading to bad PR and poor reviews.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually you can run it halfway decently on non-o/ced commercial server hardware now. We have a few aus servers running on Hypernia servers (Xeon E3-1245V2 - 3.40GHz) at 16p. Granted late game spam is always going to be a problem, but they're stable at 30ticks for the most part.

    Performance still leaves alot to be desired, but it is possible on higher end, non-overclocked stuff.

    Also, would love to see UWE remove the hardcap of 24p on dedicated servers so we can see how far we can go :p (seems to be room to host more players on overclocked processors anyway).
  • Cyberwarrior00785Cyberwarrior00785 Join Date: 2010-02-20 Member: 70651Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1986549:date=Oct 3 2012, 05:52 AM:name=riner)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (riner @ Oct 3 2012, 05:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986549"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since all the features are now implemented, the only thing left is some optimizations and bugs fixes, as a programmer i know bugs ocurrs when you implement, when you dont have anything more to "add" you can focus only on the actual stuff.

    Its going to be all right guys!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    wrong there are still features missing like: Dynanic Infestation, Babblers, Door welding/Onos Door Smash Ect...
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1986597:date=Oct 3 2012, 06:41 PM:name=Cyberwarrior00785)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cyberwarrior00785 @ Oct 3 2012, 06:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986597"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wrong there are still features missing like: Dynanic Infestation, Babblers, Door welding/Onos Door Smash Ect...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    But its feature freeze, so those missing features wont be added. But during a Q&A max hinted at Dynamic infestation perhaps making it in for 1.0, but i have no idea if it really will.

    But Babblers and door welding are certainly post 1.0 features. Can't wait for 1.1 :)
  • radforChristradforChrist USA Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6871Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
    I have to say, I was impressed with the game, thinking it's almost ready. Then beta 220 hit with the skulk changes. Now, 221 is back to that comfortable polish shine. Games seem pretty solidly even now. The team who wins now are the ones who are competent AS A TEAM.

    During the last two days especially, as alien or marine, Comm or grunt, I've seen some amazing comebacks, and some almost great ones that were decimated by the other team.

    all in all thank you UWE. I agree with the menu, I have no stutter or choppiness in the game (except for bad server tick rates), except with the menu. If I hit escape while in game, it freezes for a moment. The only place I see lag.
  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1986590:date=Oct 3 2012, 05:08 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Oct 3 2012, 05:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986590"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but they're stable at 30ticks for the most part.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Forgive me for doubting the veracity of your claims, but that seems highly unlikely considering I regularly see even 4+ GHz servers dropping to the twenties.
  • ChickenOfWarChickenOfWar Join Date: 2003-04-09 Member: 15352Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1986217:date=Oct 2 2012, 01:38 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Oct 2 2012, 01:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986217"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Too late for a change now. They've announced it on Steam. The best we can do is roll with the release that's been established.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Haha right tell that to the devs of torchlight II
  • Cyberwarrior00785Cyberwarrior00785 Join Date: 2010-02-20 Member: 70651Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1986601:date=Oct 3 2012, 09:47 AM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Oct 3 2012, 09:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986601"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But its feature freeze, so those missing features wont be added. But during a Q&A max hinted at Dynamic infestation perhaps making it in for 1.0, but i have no idea if it really will.

    But Babblers and door welding are certainly post 1.0 features. Can't wait for 1.1 :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    yah i know, oh well...
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1986606:date=Oct 3 2012, 10:00 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Oct 3 2012, 10:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986606"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Forgive me for doubting the veracity of your claims, but that seems highly unlikely considering I regularly see even 4+ GHz servers dropping to the twenties.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I asked Max on the livestream about this.

    He said they do all the testing on a stock Dell server and the game should be "fine" on servers that aren't overclocked upon release.
    I have trouble believing that also, considering I see OC'd servers go below 30 tr.
  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    Yea, and even on 30 tick the interp/collision/hitreg isn't good. I highly doubt they would be able to fix all of it by their stated release.
  • digzdigz be still, maggot Join Date: 2002-05-07 Member: 588Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1986473:date=Oct 3 2012, 03:14 AM:name=Illidan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Illidan @ Oct 3 2012, 03:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986473"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The majority of the beta feedback is that ns2 needs a far better working menu than in the current stage. Just like menumod, but integrated.

    =========

    +1 for Grimfang's post :-)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The menu changes are being worked on ;)
  • noncomposmentisnoncomposmentis Join Date: 2004-11-13 Member: 32773Members
    I agree with people about server performance and other game breaking bugs being potential ruiners. I really hope they take that kind of advice seriously.

    I also think though that for many of us on this forum with a very in depth knowledge of the game and a lot of time played, have a totally different understanding of the game than a new player does. Take a step back and you can see how impressive this game looks, especially in games where exos are walking around, charging onos, lerks flying, fades blinking, etc. It's a really good looking, fun, and dynamic experience, and most of the issues that we may have with the game won't be relevant to first impressions.
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