Anyone test 221 Skulk bite?
Mr R0YB0T 0
Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72972Members
Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72972Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Was it fixed?</div>In <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2012/9/ns2_build_220_released" target="_blank">220 </a>Skulk bite range was reduced by 20% but there was also <a href="https://twitter.com/NS2/statuses/249213170135228419" target="_blank">a bug </a>making it more difficult to bite than intended.
I don't see it mentioned in the <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2012/9/ns2_build_221_released_lockdown" target="_blank">221 change log</a>.
I don't see it mentioned in the <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2012/9/ns2_build_221_released_lockdown" target="_blank">221 change log</a>.
Comments
I know they said they didn't increase the range and just the cone width, but it feels like i'm being bitten so far away. I know this is cause interp is so damn high, but damn....
Have not found the issues your referring to mf...though I am not a great marine so wont comment on that side....but from a skulks perspective it seems fine.
Have not had any telegraphed bites that I recall since the patch.
Or perhaps in past build a lot of bites that should of registered didn't, so the change to the cylinder width whilst being minor seems to have had more impact than it actually has due to the hit reg issue that was also solved.
I have actually found it more balanced, a lone marine again needs to fear a halfway decent skulk.
You have to remember that what seemed like you were being bitten from ages away, to that player they were ontop of you and it was a hit. The server lag compensation is too high which is causing this. Like getting hit around corners etc.
I personally think the only skill now for skulk is game smarts to get close to the marine. The cone is very large and almost impossible to miss with... aiming is basically a non-requirement. Due to the absolute sluggish marine movement, I don't see how a good marine can dodge bites against a good skulk.
Thats how it should be. Marine has to be accurate, the skulk has to get in range. Asymmetry.
It's not really possible for lag compensation to be "too high". It's either on or off. Lag compensation just means that the traces and hitboxes for an attack are rewound to where they were at the time the player hit fire, instead of leaving them where they are at the time the server receives the "attack" command (ye olde Quake method).
I agree.
Which is not to say I don't agree with marine movement feeling too sluggish, I wouldn't mind it being improved a little. But skulk also needs to have its wall jump mechanic fixed. The bite cone however is fine and I still see a lot of newer players struggling with it, so it's clearly not as 'simple' as some here are making it out to be. (But at least now it's something they can practice)
Counter-strike 1.6 is 14 years old and you can set your interp to .009 thats 9ms... not 200. WOW.
So fix the interp and lag compensation and we wont see ourselves getting bitten from 10 feet away. As far as I know the interp on most servers is set to .1 which = 100ms. That is still awful. Most people who aren't very sensitive will never notice a difference... I have many friends who claim they cant see the screen tearing on their LCD monitors... and they don't notice mouselag when vsync is on. It baffles me that people can't perceive that. Any person with good eyes, perception, and reflex is going to notice this stuff... and in a big way.
Skulk is way too easy now, you'd think since performance went up that no changes to skulk bite were needed at all. I thought they felt acceptable 2 builds ago. All a skulk has to do is look in your general direction... not even get that close and they are rewarded with a hit...
I agree that skulk bite way way too narrow a handful of builds ago but I saw it get tweaked and fixed in the recent builds. No need to make skulks this good again.
Xarius... I don't know why you think a skulk should win a 1v1... thats utter crap. Vanilla skulk vs marine should always end with a dead skulk unless the skulk ambushed.. its always been this way in NS. Let me rephrase.... if a marine has any aiming ability at all and cant kill a skulk in 50 bullets you are bad. Especially since a marine can do more DPS than a skulk can with 3 bites. I'm not argueing for making skulk bite better to counter this because it was already easy enough to land bites with the skulk and required more skill. Now its easymode.
What's all this nonsense I hear about making the game easy for new players? A new player shouldn't be able to hold their own... it takes time and practice... if you make the game so easy that anyone with half a brain can install it and go 30-5 then the game is terrible.
People like games that are hard... think of counter-strike... it's harder to aim in that game and people still love it... because they feel awesome when they actually aim and get a kill. Now if they are just spoonfed kills like in COD it becomes less rewarding, and less skillful of a game.
People like games that are hard... think of counter-strike... it's harder to aim in that game and people still love it... because they feel awesome when they actually aim and get a kill. Now if they are just spoonfed kills like in COD it becomes less rewarding, and less skillful of a game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On the flip side, if you make a game where new players go 1-30 in every game, how much fun are they going to have playing it if that happens all the time?
Counter-Strike is not a good basis for comparison. NS2 is not about individual skill. It is a strategy-FPS, and should be treated as such. Rounds won are not based on how well the marines can aim. It's about teamwork, strategy, and map control. Sure, there is plenty of individual skill involved in a marine-vs-skulk confrontation, but if you look at UWE's Design Mantras, the <b>first</b> item on that list is "Easy to learn, difficult to master."
A better comparison would be TF2's soldier. When you first start playing, you can jump in the game, and start blowing people up with rockets. It takes 5 seconds to realize that you need to aim the rockets at an enemy's feet. That was easy, right? And fun. You can do a lot of damage without having to have lightning fast reflexes or flawless aim. However, you'll notice that Demomen are flying across the map with sticky jumps. Maybe you've seen a frag video where a soldier makes an impossible airshot on one of said Demomen. Obviously it's not impossible, but it is very difficult to master.
If you want a game that is very difficult right from the start, I suggest Super Ghouls and Ghosts for the SNES.
Actually no... that not how it should be. There should be a skill ceiling for skulk that does not entail sitting in a lip of a corner or roof waiting for someone to get in range
LOL. You haven't played much NS if you think you can just rambo towards marines with a skulk. Anyone who has played quake and knows how to trace a target will smoke you like nothing. Playing aliens is all about ambushing and getting marines into weak positions. Skulks are simply weaker vs marines in most situations, but they have the ability to use unpredictable movement and ambush tactics (thanks to being able to run on walls) to take down an opponent. To be honest you really need 2 skulks to take down 1 marine if you plan to zerg rush... even then the marine can still win most of the engagements if he doesn't miss or spray his shots. 2 skulks are still easy... even if they have leap if a marine has solid aim with the shotgun. Sorry, but you're wrong and this is how the gameplay is designed.
<!--quoteo(post=1985292:date=Sep 30 2012, 05:52 PM:name=Bad Mojo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bad Mojo @ Sep 30 2012, 05:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985292"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Counter-Strike is not a good basis for comparison. NS2 is not about individual skill. It is a strategy-FPS, and should be treated as such. Rounds won are not based on how well the marines can aim. It's about teamwork, strategy, and map control.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Neither is CS really... Basically the better your team can aim the better your teamwork is. You don't have strategy, teamwork, or map control without the ability to get the frags to gain all of such. People who think this game doesn't rely on individual skill and aim makes me lawl. There are plenty of teamplay elements just like there are in Counter-Strike... but it still means nothing if you can't aim. Theres plenty of competitive matches you can watch where teams do organized pushes, work together and do all that fun jazz... the problem is they get outfragged and it ruins all their plans. :(
This game isn't comparable to TF2 as far as teamwork goes, that game demands it, and there are many different roles to fulfill... and many roles that aren't combat oriented. NS2 every class is combat oriented aside from the gorge... that means that kills are the main focus of the game. Getting kills is the single most important thing you can do to be a good teammate. Sure doing other things is nice, but getting kills is what wins games more often than not.
My main strategy when playing (especially in pubs) is to rush past every node, ignoring if the comm drops one that I run by because I know building it will slow me down and my strategy... which is to get into the hive and kill everything that spawns there. I know it sounds cheap, but my egg camping more often than not distracts their team long enough for the rest of the kids to build up our crap, and it also keeps aliens from being able to get anything done. So my strategy is to kill everything... seems to work better than anything else I've tried.
If I happen to have 3 other marines who can aim it's not uncommon for us to get ammo resupplies from the comm while we destroy every egg and kill the hive on our first rush. Hows that for strategy? Rush and kill. No strategy... just kill everything and win.
The best strategy and teamwork is being individually better than the rest of the people on the other team... sad but true. Egg spawning on the ground is one of the worst ideas in this game... way too exploitable if the marines can aim and think at all.
I know... lol thank you. Not sure how you took so much out of one sentence. My point was marines should have the ability to dodge skulk bites LIKE NS1.
When will people learn that NS2 is NOT NS1.
When will people learn to play NS1... then play NS2... then realize... holy crap... they really are the same... just one is shinier. I don't want to bore you with a 10 page thesis on how NS1 and NS2 are extremely alike and share identical concepts... but just keep in mind that what worked in NS1 should also translate to NS2... there are certain exceptions but a lot of new things that were added to NS2 (like clogs, and alien comm) are just reiterations of concepts already present in NS1... just done in a more out of the box way.
And male_fatalities it just sounded like you were saying that skulks should be able fly like superman and be made of steel or something lol
But I highly agree that marines should viably be able to juke skulks... right now its nearly impossible due to easymode skulk bite... I'm sure it makes the COD kiddies happy that they can get a kill on marines without having to think or aim tho. I am sure it's fun, but anything that is broken is also a ton of fun.
I played NS1 for a long time when it first came out up until my computer broke. They may be "Similar" but they are not at all the "same" You're going to sit there and tell me alien team is the same? Even though they have their own commander, only 2 classes that are the exact same are skulk and lerk(same abilities etc) Both teams have much different playstyles than what worked in NS1. I might add-on macs, arcs, flamethrowers, exo, the useless sentry, the fact you cant just put a CC anywhere you damn well feel like it, power nodes, infestation, I could go on. Things that worked for NS1 are not going to work for NS2 its simple as that. The 2 games are NOT the same, its NOT just a "shiny" version of NS1. I'm sorry your old NS1 habits didn't transfer onto NS2, but that's just how the game is.
My main strategy when playing (especially in pubs) is to rush past every node, ignoring if the comm drops one that I run by because I know building it will slow me down and my strategy... which is to get into the hive and kill everything that spawns there. I know it sounds cheap, but my egg camping more often than not distracts their team long enough for the rest of the kids to build up our crap, and it also keeps aliens from being able to get anything done. So my strategy is to kill everything... seems to work better than anything else I've tried.
If I happen to have 3 other marines who can aim it's not uncommon for us to get ammo resupplies from the comm while we destroy every egg and kill the hive on our first rush. Hows that for strategy? Rush and kill. No strategy... just kill everything and win.
The best strategy and teamwork is being individually better than the rest of the people on the other team... sad but true. Egg spawning on the ground is one of the worst ideas in this game... way too exploitable if the marines can aim and think at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first point I will argue is the comparability to TF2. I'm not comparing TF2's teamwork to NS2's (they both require it, in different ways). If you reread my post, my TF2 example was to illustrate how the "Easy to learn, difficult to master" principal doesn't make the game so easy that it just becomes boring, as you seem to imply.
Secondly, I could discuss for days the finer points of why strategy is more important than individual skill, particularly in higher (competitive) levels of play. I could offer any number of examples, including from CS to show how individual skill can play a secondary role or almost no role at all in who wins a round. But, the further I got into your post, the more I realized that you're just trying to boast about how amazing you are as a marine, and that you alone are good enough to eliminate the need for the marine team to employ any real strategy. In fact, everything you said in those last three paragraphs just makes me shake my head.
If I am ever commanding a game and you're on my team, I'll be sure to focus on the "kids that are building up our crap" and actually contribute to the team rather than a rambo who runs straight into the hive who will more or less be a waste of my time and resources. I hate to be the one to steer this into a hostile argument as opposed to a constructive discussion, but the level of ignorance and arrogance in that post was mind-numbing.