Script Consistency Checking
Salraine_Chi
Join Date: 2011-07-03 Member: 107669Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2011-07-03 Member: 107669Members, Reinforced - Shadow
I just want someone to clarify exactly what this means.
Atm I change a few settings in the LUA folder such as Fog (false) and I change my FOV to 1.8 from 2.0 as the default gives me a headache. I also use an alien vision mod from the creative forum as well as Wilson's custom xhairs.
What is allowed and what is not? Will I be forced to use the default FOV and play with the fog on and default hairs?
Sal
Atm I change a few settings in the LUA folder such as Fog (false) and I change my FOV to 1.8 from 2.0 as the default gives me a headache. I also use an alien vision mod from the creative forum as well as Wilson's custom xhairs.
What is allowed and what is not? Will I be forced to use the default FOV and play with the fog on and default hairs?
Sal
Comments
will i be forced into tunnel vision next build?
I also run a custom fov and no fog... I think we don't have enough customization through "official" means to enforce consistency just yet, but that's me.
I also run a custom fov and no fog... I think we don't have enough customization through "official" means to enforce consistency just yet, but that's me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah. Pretty much everything but textures are checked.
I've grown so used to my minimap (tell me one game where attacked units on the minimap "stand out" by fading out into nonexistence... WTF?!) and it will be pretty hard for me to play with <90 degrees FoV (I have a 5:4 monitor). I am used to around 115° in fast paced games. No, buying a new 16:9 monitor is not an option and will actually not help much because unless I buy a really really small one I will actually have the same or even less game FoV compared to my real world FoV on the surface of my monitor.
fsfod's menu mod
Custom Crosshairs for all weapons + exo
Huze's Alien vision
Custom FOV
Full minimap mod (http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=120352&view=findpost&p=1970652)
Removal of celerity blur effect (looks pixelated with alien vision + low resolution)
I feel like most of this stuff should just be a setting in the game anyway, via a config or something.
The setting I use translates to about 80 in other games. Its not cheating as its well within the parameters of PC gaming and anything above that gives me a splitting headache after 10 minutes. I am afraid I wont be able to play then if I'm forced to use the default.
UW promised the game to be very moddable so I hope they stick to their promise.
Small changes like the ones I use make a big difference to my experience. Fog (false) makes the game look so much better imo that I would struggle to play without that setting.
Sal
You allow customcrosshairs and allow the possibility of pink skulks in the same way cause both use the same file-extension.
You allow customcrosshairs and allow the possibility of pink skulks in the same way cause both use the same file-extension.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is because the system is stupid and doesn't allow exceptions.
I agree that client side mods are a huge problem, but there are just so many little things wrong with NS2 that it really adds up and makes my gameplay experience suffer greatly.
There are some possibilities to allow a bit of (safe) client side modding for the game, but this would require a huge amount of work from UWE.
And yes, I shouldn't be changing my FoV. I just can't play FPS games with less than 90° FoV properly so I may end up not playing NS2 at all until there is a FoV slider.
Currently (i think) it only checks for files that the serverclient also has, which doesnt include textures models and sounds. (those files are not needed for the server to run)
So i guess they either need to make servers download all this stuff, or something more fancy and complicated with checking and generating hashes and whatnot...
You allow customcrosshairs and allow the possibility of pink skulks in the same way cause both use the same file-extension.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be trivial to whitelist one file.
Consistency checking worked fairly well in NS1 and wasn't out of bounds restrictive as far as I remember. Besides, it was a server side variable and could be turned off.
Alternately, it would make sense to me if UWE allowed workshop mods to bypass the check. They could then blacklist any offending mods easily.
This sir, is the best idea i've heard about the entire issue. We need to have the devs see this. Mods on workshop could concheck to ensure they haven't been fiddled with- whilst allowing the mod itself to still exist. Then it could be as trivial as putting mod exceptions into the config file by their id numbers.
The default server list and options menu are two good examples; they're lacking in functionality. fsfod's menumod may lack in looks, but at least it gives you a functional server browser and a proper options menu. With consistency check enabled, nobody will be able to use that mod.
Other examples include celerity blur, screen shake when firing the machine gun, near death sound muffling and screen flashing, and solid minimaps.
IMO, the consistency check should be left out until these things are sorted or made optional.
It's entirely possible for server operators to disable consistency checking on their server. It's controlled by a configuration file which checks the things that make it easy to cheat by default.
Edited last post, unneccesarily acidic. These forums bring out the worst in me sometimes.
It's entirely possible for server operators to disable consistency checking on their server. It's controlled by a configuration file which checks the things that make it easy to cheat by default.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really why?
I am sorry but I feel FOV should be something that everyone has the same (why can some people see more than others?)
So will FOV fall into consistency check like with every other game?
I know a lot of people in TFC cried when FOV was forced but did wonders for competitive play.
You admit that is a file/variable used to "easily cheat by default" yet make it easier to adjust?
Sorry this seems silly.
FOV is something that has not been modifiable in most game for over 6 years (memory is not what it once was) and there is a reason why which you seem to know but ignore.
Sorry but whitewalls, FOV changes etc are all considered low level hacking in any comp I played in...FOV should only ever be changable with server set to having cheats on. If you must allow for FOV changes then make them only accesable when ssv_cheats are on.
Otherwise how will players know this server allows marines to have +50 degree FOV (if the player changes it)?
VERY UN-NOOB friendly to allow these sort of advantages.
aking something moddable is one thing...but FOV changes are simply hacks.
Halflife is the most modded game but its FOV was not changeable in any game I played in last 6 years (DoD, TFC,TF2, CS etc).
Right now 16:9 players have an advantage over all other gamers and I personally get nauseous and disoriented with the default FoV. It's true, the only game I can think of that had adjustable FoV in the last 6 years was Tribes: Ascend (Edit: and BF:BC2). That doesn't mean it's bad though. You also seem to think that having 180° FoV is an advantage. It is definitely not. Heavy distortion will completely throw off your depth perception and aim. Most pro players stick to around 110-115° FoV in order to be able to aim properly.
I am sorry but I feel FOV should be something that everyone has the same (why can some people see more than others?)
So will FOV fall into consistency check like with every other game?
I know a lot of people in TFC cried when FOV was forced but did wonders for competitive play.
You admit that is a file/variable used to "easily cheat by default" yet make it easier to adjust?
Sorry this seems silly.
FOV is something that has not been modifiable in most game for over 6 years (memory is not what it once was) and there is a reason why which you seem to know but ignore.
Sorry but whitewalls, FOV changes etc are all considered low level hacking in any comp I played in...FOV should only ever be changable with server set to having cheats on. If you must allow for FOV changes then make them only accesable when ssv_cheats are on.
Otherwise how will players know this server allows marines to have +50 degree FOV (if the player changes it)?
VERY UN-NOOB friendly to allow these sort of advantages.
aking something moddable is one thing...but FOV changes are simply hacks.
Halflife is the most modded game but its FOV was not changeable in any game I played in last 6 years (DoD, TFC,TF2, CS etc).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? Sorry but... just.. no.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPDq_qvsKUA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPDq_qvsKUA</a>
The first ~5 minutes.
Consistency checking is in, FoV can be allowed or denied from the server. Your beloved competitive community can have FoV adjustments disabled, while the normal humans who play this game (about 99% of the population to throw rough figures at you), will be able to enjoy their game without getting their eyeballs twisted by design decisions that don't make sense for their personal set-up. Of course I'm not saying everyone will be affected by eyeball twisting FoV's, but there will be some. You can just ban them from competitive gaming until they can afford a set-up which exactly matches to the FoV demands of NS2...
Let's see, what are the FoV demands of NS2..
BalanceMisc.lua:17: kDefaultFov = 90
BalanceMisc.lua:19: kSkulkFov = 105
BalanceMisc.lua:20: kGorgeFov = 95
BalanceMisc.lua:21: kLerkFov = 100
BalanceMisc.lua:22: kFadeFov = 90
BalanceMisc.lua:23: kOnosFov = 90
BalanceMisc.lua:24: kExoFov = 95
So anywhere between 90 and 105 degrees depending on your class, surely you understand not everyone's set-up will work with such a wide-range of FoV's, unlike ALL the games you quoted which ALL have a single FoV setting for ALL classes/units.
Over-reaction....
LoL @ neshi, yeah I understand your point, but,
Over-reaction 2... hahahaha
While I know the importance of FOV cvars, I'm asking myself why people keep mixing up 'moddable' with 'customizable'. These are two different things.
I also think the other mods I use are just improvements over the default. Having the full minimap on both teams is much more useful than the default one.
Huzes alien vision is much easier on the eye while still having all the benefits of the default. I find it hard learning new maps as alien with the default vision because everything looks the same.
fsfod's menu mod just works faster and has much more functionality than the default menu. You can see the players in a server before you join and set it to auto join full servers. It has filters for full/empty servers etc. It also has an awesome chat box that you can scroll up and down and move around the screen as you wish. It works really well in-game you can leave the server browser open and flick between it and the game quickly just by tapping esc, and the options menu has everything displayed clearly on one page.
IMO Custom crosshairs or UI elements are just personal preference and should be modifiable.
The ideal situation is that all these things just become incorporated in the game so that I don't need to use mods. I think having a consistency check is very much needed as right now the game is a hackers paradise. I do sort of feel like textures should also be checked by default (max mentioned on the Q&A that they weren't), but excluding the UI textures. Material hacks like bright pink skulks or transparent walls are easily made and can give an unfair advantage. I know in source you can use sv_pure and set up a white list that allows certain textures to be modified but blocks others. Hopefully it will be the same as that.
I am sorry but I feel FOV should be something that everyone has the same (why can some people see more than others?)
So will FOV fall into consistency check like with every other game?
I know a lot of people in TFC cried when FOV was forced but did wonders for competitive play.
You admit that is a file/variable used to "easily cheat by default" yet make it easier to adjust?
Sorry this seems silly.
FOV is something that has not been modifiable in most game for over 6 years (memory is not what it once was) and there is a reason why which you seem to know but ignore.
Sorry but whitewalls, FOV changes etc are all considered low level hacking in any comp I played in...FOV should only ever be changable with server set to having cheats on. If you must allow for FOV changes then make them only accesable when ssv_cheats are on.
Otherwise how will players know this server allows marines to have +50 degree FOV (if the player changes it)?
VERY UN-NOOB friendly to allow these sort of advantages.
aking something moddable is one thing...but FOV changes are simply hacks.
Halflife is the most modded game but its FOV was not changeable in any game I played in last 6 years (DoD, TFC,TF2, CS etc).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said, I decrease my FOV not raise it. This puts me at a disadvantage as I see less on my screen. The default gives me a headache and makes me feel sick and I should not be forced to use it. I have dozens of games that lets you change it. Pleased to hear the option is coming with 221.
I am of the opinion that until the game has the FOV slider, a choice of crosshairs and especially the functionality of the menu mod etc then the checking system should be delayed or turned off on public servers and on when a match is being played competitively.
Another thing I change is the power off lighting when the power node goes down. I have pitch black rooms with no red emergency lighting and that's just my preference but again puts me at a disadvantage. I enjoy playing like that though.
Sal
I'd like to express my admiration for this :D
EDIT: I wouldn't mind to have all mentioned in this thread official.
Consistency checking is in, FoV can be allowed or denied from the server. Your beloved competitive community can have FoV adjustments disabled, while the normal humans who play this game (about 99% of the population to throw rough figures at you), will be able to enjoy their game without getting their eyeballs twisted by design decisions that don't make sense for their personal set-up. Of course I'm not saying everyone will be affected by eyeball twisting FoV's, but there will be some. You can just ban them from competitive gaming until they can afford a set-up which exactly matches to the FoV demands of NS2...
Let's see, what are the FoV demands of NS2..
BalanceMisc.lua:17: kDefaultFov = 90
BalanceMisc.lua:19: kSkulkFov = 105
BalanceMisc.lua:20: kGorgeFov = 95
BalanceMisc.lua:21: kLerkFov = 100
BalanceMisc.lua:22: kFadeFov = 90
BalanceMisc.lua:23: kOnosFov = 90
BalanceMisc.lua:24: kExoFov = 95
So anywhere between 90 and 105 degrees depending on your class, surely you understand not everyone's set-up will work with such a wide-range of FoV's, unlike ALL the games you quoted which ALL have a single FoV setting for ALL classes/units.
Over-reaction....
LoL @ neshi, yeah I understand your point, but,
Over-reaction 2... hahahaha<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Firstly ALL the games I listed had variable FOV by default and was an "accepted" part that some players would change their FOV.
The argument on whether this gave them an advantage or disadvantage is not relevant when your trying to produce a a balanced game.
I used to play with about 15deg higher than default in DoD back in teh early wonid days and it DID give me an advantage as I had fewer blind spots.
Same reason almost every TFC, CS player I knew did the same thing...when the checks came in this balanced out the playng field.
I cant believe that people here seem to think that being able to change your FOV does not present issues and I am somehow over-reacting at this.
I guess people dont want this game to be taken seriously in a competetive sense (or pub sense unless FOV changes are limited to when sv_cheats are being on and forced as part of consistency checks)
Sal,
Thats great but there is nothing stopping others increasing it, which you would agree does give an advantage (if decreasing is a disadvantage).
X-hair sprites are fine but FOV, lighting changes etc are not and its saddens me that this is even being discussed.
Countbasie I think the reason is that they dont see the line, they think that customisation such as different x-hairs and whitewalls are all simply "mods" and the games meant to be mod-able so its ok.
Mod-able is really about whether the underlying engine can be used to create a new game (ie halflife engine used to create CS..DOD...NS)..but that seems lost on most people.
the level of customization should be limited to x-hair colour...but hey I believe in having things even for players and not allowing someone an advantage just because they changed a setting.
Apologies to those who take offense at my desire to not allow players to change FOV, but seeing as different lifeforms have different FOV's it seems to be changing a fundamental aspect of NS2 (lifeform tradeoffs).
A Fade with a skulks FOV is going to be better than one with 15deg less...
Locked FoV prevents part of the population from playing the game at all or puts them at a severe disadvantage, which you apparently do not want to happen.
The crosshairs are frankly the worst I have ever seen and if you want to put an arbitrary handicap on all players then by all means make their screen completely blurry, disable all lights and take alien vision out of the game (oh btw, alien vision is like whitewalls and I <b>dislike</b> its current incarnation).
I dont buy into that, devs set FOV for a reason...to make each lifeform unique and also have tradeoffs (ie to make it easier for aliens to ambush marines).
Sorry but FOV is something the developers set and is not a variable that players should be able to alter...it gives a player an unfair advantage.
Lets not confuse the screen size with this as a higher res always shows more but rather whats adjustable beyond the default.
You can play 640x480 if you like...but you should be limited to the same FOV as anyone else. You should not have a wider FOV in your 640x480 than I do in mine.
The x-hair is different and can/should be changeable as unlike FOV it does not reduce the blind spot on marines that skulks are meant to use to try to sneak up with.
Wilson I am saying FOV can be altered if server is set to cheat mode otherwise it should not be changeable and I am yet to play in a comp where FOV can be changed by players it was always the default and part of the "purity" check.
I guess I am the only person who thinks games should not allow one player to increase their FOV over another of the same class.