<!--quoteo(post=1976229:date=Sep 12 2012, 05:50 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Sep 12 2012, 05:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right, that's how it is now. But in the builds where the energy regen was reduced severely, you had to gtfo when you see a flamer marine. He set you on fire and you could do 2 or 3 swipes and than you hadn't enough energy to blink out. One other marine with a LMG could follow and kill you without problems.
Again, slower energy regen has been tried and did work to counter the fade. energy drain would be overpowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah when it was 80% one flamer was a very good investment. A necessary investment even considering how effective it was against all lifeforms.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
We tried that antacid.. it was horribly frustrating and was a hard counter to some life forms.. :-/
I really do insist that making it an anti armor weapon with slight hp dot would be the key here, as it would work in conjunction with the other weapons beautifully, while not OP.
The flamethrower is a really enviable weapon (compared to some of the other stuff).
To make it better, all you have to do is keep tweaking numbers. It has a bunch of interesting 'jack of all trades' type mechanics, and it just needs time and care put into it. It's one of the few things that would benefit from being tweaked every 3-5 days and studied in-game afterward.
<!--quoteo(post=1976751:date=Sep 13 2012, 02:46 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Sep 13 2012, 02:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976751"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We tried that antacid.. it was horribly frustrating and was a hard counter to some life forms.. :-/
I really do insist that making it an anti armor weapon with slight hp dot would be the key here, as it would work in conjunction with the other weapons beautifully, while not OP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also I have an idea, if the flamethrower was to remain the same, maybe have it so the aliens who are on fire take more damage from other weapons, like 10%-25%, something along those lines. What you think?
<!--quoteo(post=1977395:date=Sep 13 2012, 08:59 PM:name=Mr R0YB0T 0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr R0YB0T 0 @ Sep 13 2012, 08:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977395"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What is the energy regen percentage increase of Adrenaline? Does the flamethrower at least counter that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know the answer to the first question, but Adrenaline actually counters the flamethrower.
Flamethrowers need to go back to being a significant energy regen stopper. Fades don't need a hard counter, but having something that could at least force them to back off and stay out of the fray for more than a few seconds would be really helpful, and give flamethrowers a role back.
As it is, flamethrowers are utterly and completely useless. It's a waste of potential.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Nooo.. no negative abilities please! its just frustrating.. would you want a lifeform on aliens that made marines run out of bullets and not be able to walk? Because that's what happened to aliens when the flamethrower did that.. Dont remove control from the player.
Just have it wreck armor and wala it has the perfect role.
Also it's too expensive and <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121069" target="_blank">heavy </a>right now considering how limited it is. You run the slowest with it than any other weapon including the Grenade Launcher.
An idea: know how flamers stop whips from whacking grenades? Make them do the same to other alien structures. Shade no longer cloaks, crag no longer heals, shift no longer restores energy. Just disable their passive abilities.
<!--quoteo(post=1977739:date=Sep 14 2012, 10:24 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Sep 14 2012, 10:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977739"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nooo.. no negative abilities please! its just frustrating.. would you want a lifeform on aliens that made marines run out of bullets and not be able to walk? Because that's what happened to aliens when the flamethrower did that.. Dont remove control from the player.
Just have it wreck armor and wala it has the perfect role.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't remove player control. Aliens move a lot faster than the Marines do. Aliens determine the terms of the engagement unless you spawn in the middle of Marines assaulting a Hive. If you're fighting someone with the Flamethrower, it's because you've chosen to. Especially because the Flamethrower is a close range weapon.
Without something like energy drain, then there's no point to the Flamethrower. If they remove that to increase it's damage, then it couldn't be a sidegrade to the Shotgun since one will end up doing more damage than the other with both being close range weapons. Even if the Flamethrower continued being better against flammable structures (Are there even any besides Cysts?), the Switch-Axe is Structural and supplements the Shotgun.
Edit: Best remove Stomp, Umbra, and Vortex as well if you don't want control being taken out of the player's hands.
Flamers are definitely lacking. I think a really useful ability would be to have them clear out infestation quicker. I know they already kill cysts really fast, but what if they made it so the infestation actually de-popped after the cysts were gone, say, twice as fast?
Seems to be a reasonable TRes trade-off, since cysts cost 1 each, and it could take a full clip's worth of ammo to clear out a 2'x2' area (so about 1 TRes of comm-dropped ammo every 12 sq. ft. or so). This could help marines get some of their ninja-ing ability back after the recent power pack nerf, clearing a space to drop mines or a forward armory / phase gate.
<!--quoteo(post=1977769:date=Sep 14 2012, 08:16 PM:name=Typhon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Typhon @ Sep 14 2012, 08:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977769"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->An idea: know how flamers stop whips from whacking grenades? Make them do the same to other alien structures. Shade no longer cloaks, crag no longer heals, shift no longer restores energy. Just disable their passive abilities.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I would like that regardless of any other changes, for consistency and hopefully also disabling that pain in the ass effect Shades cause.
Comments
Again, slower energy regen has been tried and did work to counter the fade. energy drain would be overpowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah when it was 80% one flamer was a very good investment. A necessary investment even considering how effective it was against all lifeforms.
... Or bring back those alpha flamethrowers we all used in rockdown! Yeaaah!
I really do insist that making it an anti armor weapon with slight hp dot would be the key here, as it would work in conjunction with the other weapons beautifully, while not OP.
To make it better, all you have to do is keep tweaking numbers. It has a bunch of interesting 'jack of all trades' type mechanics, and it just needs time and care put into it.
It's one of the few things that would benefit from being tweaked every 3-5 days and studied in-game afterward.
I really do insist that making it an anti armor weapon with slight hp dot would be the key here, as it would work in conjunction with the other weapons beautifully, while not OP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is exactly what it needs. Just this
Also I have an idea, if the flamethrower was to remain the same, maybe have it so the aliens who are on fire take more damage from other weapons, like 10%-25%, something along those lines. What you think?
Does the flamethrower at least counter that?
Does the flamethrower at least counter that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know the answer to the first question, but Adrenaline actually counters the flamethrower.
Blinding beams of death that 1 shot virtually everything and anything.
As it is, flamethrowers are utterly and completely useless. It's a waste of potential.
Because that's what happened to aliens when the flamethrower did that..
Dont remove control from the player.
Just have it wreck armor and wala it has the perfect role.
Because that's what happened to aliens when the flamethrower did that..
Dont remove control from the player.
Just have it wreck armor and wala it has the perfect role.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't remove player control. Aliens move a lot faster than the Marines do. Aliens determine the terms of the engagement unless you spawn in the middle of Marines assaulting a Hive. If you're fighting someone with the Flamethrower, it's because you've chosen to. Especially because the Flamethrower is a close range weapon.
Without something like energy drain, then there's no point to the Flamethrower. If they remove that to increase it's damage, then it couldn't be a sidegrade to the Shotgun since one will end up doing more damage than the other with both being close range weapons. Even if the Flamethrower continued being better against flammable structures (Are there even any besides Cysts?), the Switch-Axe is Structural and supplements the Shotgun.
Edit: Best remove Stomp, Umbra, and Vortex as well if you don't want control being taken out of the player's hands.
Seems to be a reasonable TRes trade-off, since cysts cost 1 each, and it could take a full clip's worth of ammo to clear out a 2'x2' area (so about 1 TRes of comm-dropped ammo every 12 sq. ft. or so). This could help marines get some of their ninja-ing ability back after the recent power pack nerf, clearing a space to drop mines or a forward armory / phase gate.