170 ping already cuts about 1/4th of your fps when not in combat, and about 3/4 when facing multiple enemies. The extra delay alone wouldnt be that bad, but the ridiculous impact on client performance is a huge problem.
Ye, I'm more referring to the notion of 300 ping being unplayable in ANY game. It certainly isn't optimal or at all pleasant in NS2, but I get a lot of people telling me that source or even goldsource wouldn't handle it either, which I know to be untrue.
I've never known NS1(Gldsource)'s performance to suffer from extremely-high latency. Surely there would be some kind of decrease in performance, but it was basically negligible. Hopefully NS2 can deal with it soon, or Europeans would essentially be unable to play smoothly with Australians.
<!--quoteo(post=1966051:date=Aug 23 2012, 09:30 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Aug 23 2012, 09:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1966051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On another thought, that could be the reason, why I can't understand people that cry about < 60 FPS isn't playable for them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just made a post right above, but high latency and good FPS are not at all mutually exclusive. If this is the case for NS2, that would be bad.
Yeah sure. But the main effect is the same. They differentiate in "lagging" players and "lagging" world. But overall it has the same effect: a handicap.
I don't really mind that its the way it is, there is always gorge or commander, or some building to build. I mind when people tell me convince themselves the fault lies with me and not the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1966053:date=Aug 23 2012, 11:33 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Aug 23 2012, 11:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1966053"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah sure. But the main effect is the same. They differentiate in "lagging" players and "lagging" world. But overall it has the same effect: a handicap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can shoot something that teleports, I've had a lot of practice dealing with terrible pings. What I can't do is shoot something that teleports when my crosshair can't move because the server hasn't updated my gameworld.jpg yet. I prefer high ping over low fps personally.
<!--quoteo(post=1966060:date=Aug 23 2012, 12:03 PM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Aug 23 2012, 12:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1966060"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, you know the art of the... *looks around* 'lagkill'? TAKE ME UNTO YOUR TEACHINGS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sneaking up on fades at power nodes and killing them before they hear a shot fired since 2k10
<!--quoteo(post=1966051:date=Aug 23 2012, 11:30 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Aug 23 2012, 11:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1966051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Started playing TFC with a 33.6k modem. So what are you talking about lag or bad fps?
On another thought, that could be the reason, why I can't understand people that cry about < 60 FPS isn't playable for them.
€dit: Who says we want to play with Australians? ^^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And i startet HLDM in the year 1998 with a 56k modem.Lag compensation wasnt in the engine at that time and so i had to aim always 2-3 meters in front of the model to hit it because of the bad latency. But some people were really good in this technique back in time.
<!--quoteo(post=1966069:date=Aug 23 2012, 11:48 AM:name=Yotopia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yotopia @ Aug 23 2012, 11:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1966069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And i startet HLDM in the year 1998 with a 56k modem.Lag compensation wasnt in the engine at that time and so i had to aim always 2-3 meters in front of the model to hit it because of the bad latency. But some people were really good in this technique back in time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I was just about to post the same when I saw what you had written. This also depended on your ping, so you had to adjust depending on how high it was.
Check! DukeNukem3D. My first ever multiplayer match. Had to call the other player and he had to wait for the modem to take the call. At this time I didn't even used the mouse for 1st person shooters... No need to mention, that I got totally spanked in this match.
<!--quoteo(post=1966081:date=Aug 23 2012, 02:47 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Aug 23 2012, 02:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1966081"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Check! DukeNukem3D. My first ever multiplayer match. Had to call the other player and he had to wait for the modem to take the call. At this time I didn't even used the mouse for 1st person shooters... No need to mention, that I got totally spanked in this match.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Me too with the exception that I can't remember the end result. And I actually know the guy IRL whom I played against.
Actually, I think your connection type (33.6 vs DSL vs cable, etc) has little to do with your ping. I had netlimiter open while playing NS2 and it only required a few kb/s for upload and download, which a modem could easily handle. Your ping is about the time it takes your information to get to and from the server. As to whether Europeans can play with Australians... well, it's a big world. A test ping to an Australian IP from my computer in Canada produced a ping of 264ms.
<!--quoteo(post=1966092:date=Aug 23 2012, 02:06 PM:name=Cee Colon Slash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cee Colon Slash @ Aug 23 2012, 02:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1966092"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, I think your connection type (33.6 vs DSL vs cable, etc) has little to do with your ping. I had netlimiter open while playing NS2 and it only required a few kb/s for upload and download, which a modem could easily handle. Your ping is about the time it takes your information to get to and from the server. As to whether Europeans can play with Australians... well, it's a big world. A test ping to an Australian IP from my computer in Canada produced a ping of 264ms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the ping was more due to the modulate and demodulate part. Analogue lines are slow as ###### yo.
Huh, while you're posting pics of old networking kit (token ring?), I'm still happily using my IBM Model M keyboard, the sticker underneath being handwritten by the quality assurance team, saying it was "born in 1987"
It's still the only type of keyboard you could beat an intruder to death with, and continue to use it as though nothing happened :-)
Unless you've experienced the lovely tactile feedback that these keyboards give you, you'll never understand why they're still so sought after. Yes, they're noisy, but there's just something about them that makes you more productive - you just WANT to use it more.
<!--quoteo(post=1966086:date=Aug 23 2012, 09:56 PM:name=Sewlek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sewlek @ Aug 23 2012, 09:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1966086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i prefered to use those devices<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lol, not you didn't! BNC was so terrible. Oh somebody's connection's come loose so the whole network broke.
<!--quoteo(post=1966092:date=Aug 23 2012, 10:06 PM:name=Cee Colon Slash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cee Colon Slash @ Aug 23 2012, 10:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1966092"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, I think your connection type (33.6 vs DSL vs cable, etc) has little to do with your ping. I had netlimiter open while playing NS2 and it only required a few kb/s for upload and download, which a modem could easily handle. Your ping is about the time it takes your information to get to and from the server. As to whether Europeans can play with Australians... well, it's a big world. A test ping to an Australian IP from my computer in Canada produced a ping of 264ms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, the improvement from ~250ms to less than 50ms ping we all experienced when going from 56k modem to DSL was illusory - just a psychosomatic symptom.
There was never a division in the gaming community in those days between LPBs (low ping ######s - who had cable or DSL) and HPWs (high ping whiners, on dialup). Multiplayer shooter games before Half-Life had no lag-compensation, so low ping was a massive advantage.
EDIT: FYI I get pings to EU servers of around 300 - 400ms from AU. To USA is 150 - 300ms depending on which side of the continent the server is on.
BNC networking was absolutely atrocious, and organising all the protocols and rubbish like that... we never did get it to work. Thank god for plug and play and recent windows iterations.
Unless you're used to playing in those conditions and adapt to it.
No servers near where I stay, so pretty much got used to 250-400 ping. NS2 is a type of game that doesn't reward pure KDR, so I can sometimes top the scoreboards with strategic kills, go commander, and on some occasions with many newbies around, top the scoreboard in kills.
Back in the olden days, we sent hand written binary packets to the server, by carrier pigeons. We wrote them on pergament, with dinosaur blood, of which we had to strangle one with our bare hands for every new packet.
<!--quoteo(post=1966141:date=Aug 23 2012, 05:05 PM:name=Sebenza)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sebenza @ Aug 23 2012, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1966141"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Back in the olden days, we sent hand written binary packets to the server, by carrier pigeons. We wrote them on pergament, with dinosaur blood, of which we had to strangle one with our bare hands for every new packet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The sad part is that above post is absolutely true. When you had a LAN with your friends you knew the first 12 hours were all about getting the damned network to run. Followed by a 6 hour debate over what game we should actually play, often ending in one half of the people playing C&C and the other half playing Blood.
in TFC i used to have to jump a full second before the sound of my concussion grenade going off. When i got DSL i couldn't conc jump anymore because i was so used to the timing i had to use with the massive amount of lag. I played with 150-300ms latency for years just fine, i found anything above 300ms unplayable though. When i got into competitive counter-strike, i found anything above 60ms to be unacceptable. For some reason New York servers gave me low latency (20-30ms) but the hit registration was ######, and Chicago servers gave me nothing but headshots with 50ms, I guess the chicago connections are more stable (less jitter).
Comments
On another thought, that could be the reason, why I can't understand people that cry about < 60 FPS isn't playable for them.
€dit: Who says we want to play with Australians? ^^
Just made a post right above, but high latency and good FPS are not at all mutually exclusive. If this is the case for NS2, that would be bad.
<!--quoteo(post=1966053:date=Aug 23 2012, 11:33 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Aug 23 2012, 11:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1966053"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah sure. But the main effect is the same. They differentiate in "lagging" players and "lagging" world. But overall it has the same effect: a handicap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can shoot something that teleports, I've had a lot of practice dealing with terrible pings. What I can't do is shoot something that teleports when my crosshair can't move because the server hasn't updated my gameworld.jpg yet. I prefer high ping over low fps personally.
TAKE ME UNTO YOUR TEACHINGS.
TAKE ME UNTO YOUR TEACHINGS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sneaking up on fades at power nodes and killing them before they hear a shot fired since 2k10
On another thought, that could be the reason, why I can't understand people that cry about < 60 FPS isn't playable for them.
€dit: Who says we want to play with Australians? ^^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And i startet HLDM in the year 1998 with a 56k modem.Lag compensation wasnt in the engine at that time and so i had to aim always 2-3 meters in front of the model to hit it because of the bad latency.
But some people were really good in this technique back in time.
But some people were really good in this technique back in time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I was just about to post the same when I saw what you had written. This also depended on your ping, so you had to adjust depending on how high it was.
<img src="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411V7WZJJSL.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
and magical 60mhz cpus (with turbo button for 66mhz!), but i also turned with keyboard in the beginning, good old times :D
Me too with the exception that I can't remember the end result. And I actually know the guy IRL whom I played against.
I think the ping was more due to the modulate and demodulate part. Analogue lines are slow as ###### yo.
It's still the only type of keyboard you could beat an intruder to death with, and continue to use it as though nothing happened :-)
Unless you've experienced the lovely tactile feedback that these keyboards give you, you'll never understand why they're still so sought after. Yes, they're noisy, but there's just something about them that makes you more productive - you just WANT to use it more.
Lol, not you didn't! BNC was so terrible. Oh somebody's connection's come loose so the whole network broke.
Also, have you loaded IPX?
Yes, the improvement from ~250ms to less than 50ms ping we all experienced when going from 56k modem to DSL was illusory - just a psychosomatic symptom.
There was never a division in the gaming community in those days between LPBs (low ping ######s - who had cable or DSL) and HPWs (high ping whiners, on dialup). Multiplayer shooter games before Half-Life had no lag-compensation, so low ping was a massive advantage.
EDIT: FYI I get pings to EU servers of around 300 - 400ms from AU. To USA is 150 - 300ms depending on which side of the continent the server is on.
Really anything over 60 isn't ideal and above 120 and it's just awful.
No servers near where I stay, so pretty much got used to 250-400 ping. NS2 is a type of game that doesn't reward pure KDR, so I can sometimes top the scoreboards with strategic kills, go commander, and on some occasions with many newbies around, top the scoreboard in kills.
The sad part is that above post is absolutely true. When you had a LAN with your friends you knew the first 12 hours were all about getting the damned network to run. Followed by a 6 hour debate over what game we should actually play, often ending in one half of the people playing C&C and the other half playing Blood.