If i play gorge, i always feel like my team need me as skulk, lerk, fade or onos but as gorge i don't "feel" supporting my team. It realy feels always like this, i guess because gorge can only heal, but if you are a lerk or a fade, you heal faster at a crag or hive(?). Hydras are not very powerful, so it always feels like playing gorge, don't help your team very much, except if you got bilebomb to bomb the sh.. out of marine stuff.
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
edited August 2012
Gorges can efficiently hold any position with hydras and clogs currently, especialy so with commander support Gorges can also efficiently destroy a base slowly and worst of all, get away and around the corner healing till the cows come home, coupled with carapace and adrenaline, sometimes even feign death, gorges are the worst pain in my backside, especialy as they cost 10 frucking res when they do 3 different jobs. (area denial, heals, siege) And ironicly, those 3 jobs can compliment themselves quite efficiently at one said time. Which in the right hands, gorge can win games singlehandedly.
Why would you be bile-bombing without aid of your own free hydras to back you up. if you even manage to build a clog wall to stand behind while bile-bombing, that's a serious threat to the marines.
granted you will probably need the backup of your team for this. seriously, people that complain just aren't that creative when it comes to playing the gorge.
(and before anyone starts again.... yes... of course healing the hive up, or healing harvesters up is somewhat boring.... but that's like 5-10% of the action if you manage to stay alive)
<!--quoteo(post=1964442:date=Aug 17 2012, 07:52 PM:name=ArcL!ght)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ArcL!ght @ Aug 17 2012, 07:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1964442"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Spider Whip! Spider Whip! Does what ever Spider Whip does. Can he swat JP from sky? No he can't he's a Whip.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who's a good whipy? Who's a good whipy?
...And back to the topic. I agree that the Gorge feels a little incomplete and the reason for that I believe is that it can only build hydras and clogs. I loved being a Gorge in NS1 because it felt like I was the one behind alien team's progress. And I too still oppose free hydras.
<!--quoteo(post=1964621:date=Aug 18 2012, 02:13 AM:name=LPC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LPC @ Aug 18 2012, 02:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1964621"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why would you be bile-bombing without aid of your own free hydras to back you up. if you even manage to build a clog wall to stand behind while bile-bombing, that's a serious threat to the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most of the stuff I'm interested in bilebombing is in places that are either actively defended (no time to set up clogwall) or it's a sneak rush (again, no time to set up clogwall). Either way, I don't find dropping them incredibly useful. They're certainly good at blocking off (some) doorways and stopping motion, and can tie up more players than 1 from the other team, but that mostly consists of going back to the TF2 engineer approach, "sit behind this sentry gun and bash it continually with a wrench in case it gets hit." I dunno. Something's missing.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1964317:date=Aug 17 2012, 02:35 AM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Aug 17 2012, 02:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1964317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was merely pointing out that one shouldn't overstate the gorge's healing-ability as its defining quality (which it appears you agree with). Besides healing, bile-bombing, the hydras (which have been extremely problematic ever since they became free) and the clogs, there isn't much to the gorge. You mention accelerating structure-building, I wonder why they didn't go the full monty and have it just drop the structures from the get-go.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's like saying without bite, leap, and parasite, there isn't anything to the skulk. I've found healing, bilebomb, hydras, and clogs to be more than enough for having fun and being successful with the gorge. Stuff like spit and faster structure building (which is actually very useful for fast-building hives) to be icing on the cake. The only major thing that is missing is some type of tier3 tech for the gorge (e.g. web).
I feel like the alien commander and the gorge are competing for the same roles. One of them needs to go. Get rid of the alien commander is my vote, but apparently the UW team is just hell bent on keeping the alien commander.
<!--quoteo(post=1964857:date=Aug 18 2012, 08:33 PM:name=Tom_Hanks13)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom_Hanks13 @ Aug 18 2012, 08:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1964857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does anyone know if gorge web will be brought back?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For sure not before 1.0. Cory stated earlier that they are considering something similar to it for post 1.0.
<!--quoteo(post=1964780:date=Aug 18 2012, 09:32 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Aug 18 2012, 09:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1964780"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's like saying without bite, leap, and parasite, there isn't anything to the skulk. I've found healing, bilebomb, hydras, and clogs to be more than enough for having fun and being successful with the gorge. Stuff like spit and faster structure building (which is actually very useful for fast-building hives) to be icing on the cake. The only major thing that is missing is some type of tier3 tech for the gorge (e.g. web).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're forgetting that the skulk has actual (melee) combat to it, which is a significant factor (a defining one for the alien-team). It takes a whole lot to compensate for not having that. The NS1-gorge had this, the NS2-gorge not so much, it simply needs more, and calling spit and building-acceleration 'icing on the cake' wouldn't exactly be my words (as is evident by how people deem the gorge not fun to play). It is also important to note that you just cannot give the gorge more to do, it has to naturally eminate from the game's demands. Crippling hive-growth to the point where a gorge is mandatory is speed up construction is a terrible way to give the gorge something to do. These kinds of hacks butcher the gameplay and end up not being fun for the gorge anyway. The abilities of the NS1-gorge (OCs\MCs\DCs\SCs\Hives et cetera) were allocated to him because they were essential and could not be placed elsewhere, this is what you need to do for the NS2-gorge to make it fun to play again. But of course here comes the alien-commander into play, and how it competes for most of the gorges-functionality, which makes it an altogether lousy gameplay-situation.
It's important to note that all the current players are pretty hardcore, and will gladly take one for the team and go gorge, but with the influx of casual-players come v1.0, whom want to enjoy themselfs every minute of the game, I feel the gorge-class will be a 3rd-grade class even moreso than now. But if Cory says the gorge is feature-complete I guess all of this is academics...
Gorge is ok to play. Not as fun as NS1, but still fun.
However, I do think it needs more scoring incentives. Some kind of kill-assist point system ala TF2's Medic would be nice. Actually that would be nice to have in general.
I can play a whole 45 minute round as gorge, heal the entire team for the whole game, heal all hives and structures as they grow, clog and hydra up crucial choke points --- and then walk away from the game with only 20 or 30 points. It's kind of bleh.
<!--quoteo(post=1964602:date=Aug 18 2012, 06:30 AM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Aug 18 2012, 06:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1964602"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How can the gorge be so feature compleat? Its an attempt to copy a tf2 engineer class which, mind, the game has no res model, so it is entirely realistic to keep it there, where ns2 has a res model, and it gets free structures? Also, gorges need to heal themselves alot less, i find it's impossible even if im getting a whole rifle clip on gorges that they just don't die. healing themselves etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just wanted to point out that the things you mentioned have nothing to do with being feature complete. When I say the Gorge is feature complete, that means that we won't be adding in new structures and abilities before 1.0 But having Hydras cost pres (something we are trying out in the dev build) is not adding a new feature, it is tweaking an existing one. So being in feature complete mode, we can still change values for features like healing or bilebomb, etc., and polish and bug fix his abilities.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2012
The current gorge is by far the least interesting alien lifeform. The only reason anybody would play gorge, apart from the special group of people who enjoy making walls of lame, is either because they are useless at everything else or because "somebody has to".
In short; it is boring, shallow and devoid of any real gameplay value. The only thing that is less interesting than sitting behind your hydras while holding mouse1, is sitting behind <x> comm dropped structure while holding mouse1 -- both of which are the most important gorge tasks.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1964971:date=Aug 19 2012, 01:15 PM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Aug 19 2012, 01:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1964971"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What is faster at the moment: marines with sprint or gorges with slide?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was outpacing skulks by bellysliding from the ramp going down from Datacore and drifting into the hall connecting into Atrium.
if gorge spit was made more consistent i think gorges could be very good, even hold their own against marines. as it is, though, the spit projectile is too iffy to use.
I don't understand why the gorge doesn't have a 3 hive upgrade but setting that aside for a moment in the interest of "they are feature complete"...
Some tweaks would be nice, it feels like a "part time" class to play as. Start as one, help get 2 RT's then help build the hive. Clog somewhere and drop your 3 hydra's and you have 10 minutes or so of "filler time" until you are really needed again. All the while you are getting pres and have nothing to spend it on. Why not let the gorge also "upgrade egg's" like the alien commander can?
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
edited August 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1964950:date=Aug 20 2012, 02:09 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 20 2012, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1964950"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just wanted to point out that the things you mentioned have nothing to do with being feature complete. When I say the Gorge is feature complete, that means that we won't be adding in new structures and abilities before 1.0 But having Hydras cost pres (something we are trying out in the dev build) is not adding a new feature, it is tweaking an existing one. So being in feature complete mode, we can still change values for features like healing or bilebomb, etc., and polish and bug fix his abilities.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah ok then, my apologies. IT would be much more fun however IF structures weren't limited for him, res cost or not, it would still be meaning his potential as the class he is just isn't being reached. at least keep a door open to new ideas for him?
Also schleppy is right, currently it feels like gorge is the part time class, and this new hydra model was to make it so that in order to be effective as a gorge, you had to stay as a gorge, correct? Well with crags, whips and shades as a much more effective combo than gorge and hydra in some cases, building gorge forts just isn't useful as it used to be. Gorge needs something else to do, currently his job is stale and unfulfilling. whatever that is, help build structures but have no direction in what they are (apart from communications, comm can do whatever he wants), he only really has 2 roles and neither are fully fulfilled, that's combat medic, and fort construction, A sort of useless but annoying version of the old defense management job. both can be replaced by much more efficient structures the khamm can place.. bile bomb is far too op, it removes the point of oni unless in hordes all going for a power node somewhere, i'm not really sure that the gorge currently has the purpose it used to anymore. :( Sorry for the long and relatively unorganised post, i'm quite sick and my heads a bit funny, been a sleep all weekend pretty much, but my opinion is still the same.
<!--quoteo(post=1964958:date=Aug 19 2012, 12:42 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Aug 19 2012, 12:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1964958"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only reason anybody would play gorge, apart from the special group of people who enjoy making walls of lame, is either because they are useless at everything else or because "somebody has to".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's awfully judgmental and a bit prejudice. I enjoy playing gorge and am not "useless at everything else."
A "wall of lame" is just clogs and hydras used effectively and purposefully. For the marine it might be lame, but that GL spam is pretty lame to the gorge.
If you don't enjoy gorge that's fine, but don't say that people who do are worthless at everything else if they happen to enjoy it.
Its disappointing to read that the gorge is feature complete. I find the gorge incredibly boring to play. He just feels like the one person in the group that just doesn't belong.
Comments
It realy feels always like this, i guess because gorge can only heal, but if you are a lerk or a fade, you heal faster at a crag or hive(?).
Hydras are not very powerful, so it always feels like playing gorge, don't help your team very much, except if you got bilebomb to bomb the sh.. out of marine stuff.
Gorges can also efficiently destroy a base slowly and worst of all, get away and around the corner healing till the cows come home, coupled with carapace and adrenaline, sometimes even feign death, gorges are the worst pain in my backside, especialy as they cost 10 frucking res when they do 3 different jobs. (area denial, heals, siege)
And ironicly, those 3 jobs can compliment themselves quite efficiently at one said time.
Which in the right hands, gorge can win games singlehandedly.
granted you will probably need the backup of your team for this. seriously, people that complain just aren't that creative when it comes to playing the gorge.
(and before anyone starts again.... yes... of course healing the hive up, or healing harvesters up is somewhat boring.... but that's like 5-10% of the action if you manage to stay alive)
Who's a good whipy? Who's a good whipy?
...And back to the topic. I agree that the Gorge feels a little incomplete and the reason for that I believe is that it can only build hydras and clogs. I loved being a Gorge in NS1 because it felt like I was the one behind alien team's progress. And I too still oppose free hydras.
Most of the stuff I'm interested in bilebombing is in places that are either actively defended (no time to set up clogwall) or it's a sneak rush (again, no time to set up clogwall). Either way, I don't find dropping them incredibly useful. They're certainly good at blocking off (some) doorways and stopping motion, and can tie up more players than 1 from the other team, but that mostly consists of going back to the TF2 engineer approach, "sit behind this sentry gun and bash it continually with a wrench in case it gets hit." I dunno. Something's missing.
That's like saying without bite, leap, and parasite, there isn't anything to the skulk. I've found healing, bilebomb, hydras, and clogs to be more than enough for having fun and being successful with the gorge. Stuff like spit and faster structure building (which is actually very useful for fast-building hives) to be icing on the cake. The only major thing that is missing is some type of tier3 tech for the gorge (e.g. web).
For sure not before 1.0. Cory stated earlier that they are considering something similar to it for post 1.0.
You're forgetting that the skulk has actual (melee) combat to it, which is a significant factor (a defining one for the alien-team). It takes a whole lot to compensate for not having that. The NS1-gorge had this, the NS2-gorge not so much, it simply needs more, and calling spit and building-acceleration 'icing on the cake' wouldn't exactly be my words (as is evident by how people deem the gorge not fun to play). It is also important to note that you just cannot give the gorge more to do, it has to naturally eminate from the game's demands. Crippling hive-growth to the point where a gorge is mandatory is speed up construction is a terrible way to give the gorge something to do. These kinds of hacks butcher the gameplay and end up not being fun for the gorge anyway. The abilities of the NS1-gorge (OCs\MCs\DCs\SCs\Hives et cetera) were allocated to him because they were essential and could not be placed elsewhere, this is what you need to do for the NS2-gorge to make it fun to play again. But of course here comes the alien-commander into play, and how it competes for most of the gorges-functionality, which makes it an altogether lousy gameplay-situation.
It's important to note that all the current players are pretty hardcore, and will gladly take one for the team and go gorge, but with the influx of casual-players come v1.0, whom want to enjoy themselfs every minute of the game, I feel the gorge-class will be a 3rd-grade class even moreso than now. But if Cory says the gorge is feature-complete I guess all of this is academics...
However, I do think it needs more scoring incentives. Some kind of kill-assist point system ala TF2's Medic would be nice. Actually that would be nice to have in general.
I can play a whole 45 minute round as gorge, heal the entire team for the whole game, heal all hives and structures as they grow, clog and hydra up crucial choke points --- and then walk away from the game with only 20 or 30 points. It's kind of bleh.
Also, gorges need to heal themselves alot less, i find it's impossible even if im getting a whole rifle clip on gorges that they just don't die. healing themselves etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just wanted to point out that the things you mentioned have nothing to do with being feature complete. When I say the Gorge is feature complete, that means that we won't be adding in new structures and abilities before 1.0 But having Hydras cost pres (something we are trying out in the dev build) is not adding a new feature, it is tweaking an existing one. So being in feature complete mode, we can still change values for features like healing or bilebomb, etc., and polish and bug fix his abilities.
--Cory
In short; it is boring, shallow and devoid of any real gameplay value. The only thing that is less interesting than sitting behind your hydras while holding mouse1, is sitting behind <x> comm dropped structure while holding mouse1 -- both of which are the most important gorge tasks.
How about cysts attacking marines with an special skillmove. Imagine cysts flying around with awsome airmovement and cystmomentum.
Really, skillmoves for an healing gorge? wtf
Some sugegstions:
- Fartsliding for extra speed
- You have to drink some beer ratios from marines for an extra barf-attack
I was outpacing skulks by bellysliding from the ramp going down from Datacore and drifting into the hall connecting into Atrium.
Some tweaks would be nice, it feels like a "part time" class to play as. Start as one, help get 2 RT's then help build the hive. Clog somewhere and drop your 3 hydra's and you have 10 minutes or so of "filler time" until you are really needed again. All the while you are getting pres and have nothing to spend it on. Why not let the gorge also "upgrade egg's" like the alien commander can?
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah ok then, my apologies.
IT would be much more fun however IF structures weren't limited for him, res cost or not, it would still be meaning his potential as the class he is just isn't being reached. at least keep a door open to new ideas for him?
Also schleppy is right, currently it feels like gorge is the part time class, and this new hydra model was to make it so that in order to be effective as a gorge, you had to stay as a gorge, correct? Well with crags, whips and shades as a much more effective combo than gorge and hydra in some cases, building gorge forts just isn't useful as it used to be.
Gorge needs something else to do, currently his job is stale and unfulfilling. whatever that is, help build structures but have no direction in what they are (apart from communications, comm can do whatever he wants), he only really has 2 roles and neither are fully fulfilled, that's combat medic, and fort construction, A sort of useless but annoying version of the old defense management job. both can be replaced by much more efficient structures the khamm can place.. bile bomb is far too op, it removes the point of oni unless in hordes all going for a power node somewhere, i'm not really sure that the gorge currently has the purpose it used to anymore. :(
Sorry for the long and relatively unorganised post, i'm quite sick and my heads a bit funny, been a sleep all weekend pretty much, but my opinion is still the same.
That's awfully judgmental and a bit prejudice. I enjoy playing gorge and am not "useless at everything else."
A "wall of lame" is just clogs and hydras used effectively and purposefully. For the marine it might be lame, but that GL spam is pretty lame to the gorge.
If you don't enjoy gorge that's fine, but don't say that people who do are worthless at everything else if they happen to enjoy it.