<!--quoteo(post=1960338:date=Aug 10 2012, 10:58 AM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Aug 10 2012, 10:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960338"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What make NS difficult to learn is what makes NS fun. If I wanted a shooter that didn't require thinking I'd play CoD.
And I really do not like the command chair status bar, this makes it impossible for a skulk to sneak into a base and destroy the CC while the marines are not paying attention. If the whole marine team doesn't notice their CC going down then they deserve to lose.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1 to that as well!
<!--quoteo(post=1960099:date=Aug 10 2012, 03:08 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 10 2012, 03:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960099"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, here is a mockup showing the direction the progress bar panel is going to go. This isn't just for welding/building, it is also for when you look at structures instead of the current displayed text that shows up above the crosshairs, and where you will see the the hive/command station health when under attack.
[attachment=36112:ProgressBarPanel.jpg]
Over the next few patches we are going to be adding/removing/polishing many of the UI elements in the game, to make them more informative, more visually cohesive, and less cluttered and redundant.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whyyy? Just do the same as in NS1! The new progress bars are so fail IMO! (Except for maybe the one indicating main building HP.)
Performance seem down to me atleast and its really frustrating when the release is so close.
And the red icons for hives and command stations, just remove them they are really annoying. Like yuuki sed its up to the commander to give waypoints. The build bar that stays in the middle of the screen has to be moved or deleted from the game its terrible to have things in the middle of your screen like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't think hes trolling. I have had a massive performance increase this patch. I only had issues once aliens had 3 hives and tons of structures all over, though. That, for the most part, is gone for me now. Theres a reduction in fps, but its still more than playable (30-40).
<!--quoteo(post=1960454:date=Aug 10 2012, 03:44 PM:name=Skuggan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skuggan @ Aug 10 2012, 03:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960454"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->30-40 fps on a 4.2 ghz cpu is not playable its a disaster for a dx9 game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, fps is still low, but there are much less hitches for me.
<!--quoteo(post=1959980:date=Aug 9 2012, 11:26 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 9 2012, 11:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959980"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the hideous Parasite effect is of course very placeholder.
Glowing red hives and cc icon's are here to stay, sorry. They will probably be decreased a bit in size and maybe made a little less intense, but they are necessary for players to know where to go, and what the objective is. Every FPS game has something like this. Maybe it will be added as an option to turn off later.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really hope that the option to remove these features is in the game, it would be a real shame if it wasnt.
<!--quoteo(post=1960226:date=Aug 9 2012, 11:18 PM:name=Pato)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pato @ Aug 9 2012, 11:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960226"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adding my voice against armories healing armor. A step in the wrong direction.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The reason they did that originally was to speed up end game results and prevent marines from armory humping in the base, stretching out the end-game. They've come up with a better solution now -- giving the armory "energy", so if the entire marine team is armory-humping at the end game, there is only so much ammo/healing it will dish out before it needs to regenerate.
<!--quoteo(post=1960510:date=Aug 10 2012, 10:20 AM:name=Typhon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Typhon @ Aug 10 2012, 10:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960510"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everything being added solely for the sake of new players needs to be able to be disabled with a "don't show new player tips" checkbox in options.
That includes the hive/chair vision, armory cross, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1960363:date=Aug 10 2012, 03:01 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Aug 10 2012, 03:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960363"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I though you guys were doing a RTS-FPS mix? In addition, that's an argumentum ad populum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_the_majority).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most people experience NS2 as an FPS (10 out of 12 for a 6v6 to 30 out of 32 for an 18v18), such that getting the FPS portion of the game right is of prime importance. Also, there are very good reasons many, if not all, FPSs have a indicator of the current objective (i.e. it is a very effective form of showing new players the ultimate goal). The burden of proof should be to explain why NS2 FPS is so different that it doesn't need it.
Granted, I still would like the option to turn it off (since I'm neither a new player nor uninformed about the game objectives).
Nope, the position of the camera or the way you move, doesn't suddenly make you play a different game. The set of rules, building stuff, gathering resource, getting upgrade, using the space of the map at your advantage, defines what the game is and it's exactly the same game for every player. The argument is fallacious anyway.
People are conflating "current objective" with "ultimate goal". They are not the same thing for the majority of the game.
It's the job of the comm/khamm to be setting the current objective, and that is the only objective that matters. And this objective is already very clear for players (at least for marines, pheromones aren't in yet), they have a pathway on their screen they can follow, icons indicating what to do, etc.
Having the game automatically display the ultimate goal all the time is misleading, <u>especially</u> to new players. It would be like on a TF2 payload map (3 stages, 2 objectives per stage) if all throughout the game you could see stage 3's second objective through the walls. Stage 3's second objective is irrelevant until you've passed stage 3's first objective. What <u>is</u> visible through walls at all times is the <u>current</u> objective: the cart.
What would really help new players is seeing their teammates through walls. That would be a far more helpful "default order" then seeing a structure deep in enemy territory and unassailable by a lone new player.
<!--quoteo(post=1960658:date=Aug 10 2012, 03:50 PM:name=Typhon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Typhon @ Aug 10 2012, 03:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What would really help new players is seeing their teammates through walls. That would be a far more helpful "default order" then seeing a structure deep in enemy territory and unassailable by a lone new player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Speaking before I've actually seen the changes, but UWE should keep in mind players _can_ actually learn by themselves and most of them don't need that much hand-holding.
Case in point: DayZ, which is extremely successful (1 million players!) in spite of the unintuitive interface and the learning curve is an integral part of the experience.
<!--quoteo(post=1959983:date=Aug 9 2012, 06:30 PM:name=Syknik)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Syknik @ Aug 9 2012, 06:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959983"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cory, as long as you can toggle off/on those glowing red cc/hive icons, then i'm fine with it. Plus I really don't think it shows 'what the objective is' or 'where to go'. I think all it does is confuses new players and rather than the new players doing what they should be doing, they're attracted to a CC and will just get randomly picked off. There has to be a better way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
This doesn't show anybody where to go or what the objective is at all. In fact it will more often than not be extremely misleading to new players. Pushing a hive is something that should be decided by the team or a squad... or in some cases an individual.
Putting a giant "Go here to die" icon isn't really helping anybody.
The hive/comm icons are great. I mean look at counterstrike. How did anyone know where to plant the bomb? Or where to find the hostages? I remember when I first started playing, I was holding W and running into the wall. After 10 or so minutes of looking at that wall, I got super frustrated and went online and google'd the de_dust map so I could figure it out. I can't help but think that if there were some huge giant green arrows escorting me to the bombsite or hostages, the game would have been more accessible to newer players and would have been a sucessful game.
Comments
And I really do not like the command chair status bar, this makes it impossible for a skulk to sneak into a base and destroy the CC while the marines are not paying attention. If the whole marine team doesn't notice their CC going down then they deserve to lose.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 to that as well!
I agree completely!
[attachment=36112:ProgressBarPanel.jpg]
Over the next few patches we are going to be adding/removing/polishing many of the UI elements in the game, to make them more informative, more visually cohesive, and less cluttered and redundant.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whyyy? Just do the same as in NS1! The new progress bars are so fail IMO!
(Except for maybe the one indicating main building HP.)
Performance seem down to me atleast and its really frustrating when the release is so close.
And the red icons for hives and command stations, just remove them they are really annoying. Like yuuki sed its up to the commander to give waypoints.
The build bar that stays in the middle of the screen has to be moved or deleted from the game its terrible to have things in the middle of your screen like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't think hes trolling. I have had a massive performance increase this patch. I only had issues once aliens had 3 hives and tons of structures all over, though. That, for the most part, is gone for me now. Theres a reduction in fps, but its still more than playable (30-40).
Yes, fps is still low, but there are much less hitches for me.
Glowing red hives and cc icon's are here to stay, sorry. They will probably be decreased a bit in size and maybe made a little less intense, but they are necessary for players to know where to go, and what the objective is. Every FPS game has something like this. Maybe it will be added as an option to turn off later.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really hope that the option to remove these features is in the game, it would be a real shame if it wasnt.
That includes the hive/chair vision, armory cross, etc.
The reason they did that originally was to speed up end game results and prevent marines from armory humping in the base, stretching out the end-game. They've come up with a better solution now -- giving the armory "energy", so if the entire marine team is armory-humping at the end game, there is only so much ammo/healing it will dish out before it needs to regenerate.
That includes the hive/chair vision, armory cross, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->+1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
Most people experience NS2 as an FPS (10 out of 12 for a 6v6 to 30 out of 32 for an 18v18), such that getting the FPS portion of the game right is of prime importance. Also, there are very good reasons many, if not all, FPSs have a indicator of the current objective (i.e. it is a very effective form of showing new players the ultimate goal). The burden of proof should be to explain why NS2 FPS is so different that it doesn't need it.
Granted, I still would like the option to turn it off (since I'm neither a new player nor uninformed about the game objectives).
It's the job of the comm/khamm to be setting the current objective, and that is the only objective that matters. And this objective is already very clear for players (at least for marines, pheromones aren't in yet), they have a pathway on their screen they can follow, icons indicating what to do, etc.
Having the game automatically display the ultimate goal all the time is misleading, <u>especially</u> to new players. It would be like on a TF2 payload map (3 stages, 2 objectives per stage) if all throughout the game you could see stage 3's second objective through the walls. Stage 3's second objective is irrelevant until you've passed stage 3's first objective. What <u>is</u> visible through walls at all times is the <u>current</u> objective: the cart.
What would really help new players is seeing their teammates through walls. That would be a far more helpful "default order" then seeing a structure deep in enemy territory and unassailable by a lone new player.
agreed.
Case in point: DayZ, which is extremely successful (1 million players!) in spite of the unintuitive interface and the learning curve is an integral part of the experience.
+1
This doesn't show anybody where to go or what the objective is at all. In fact it will more often than not be extremely misleading to new players. Pushing a hive is something that should be decided by the team or a squad... or in some cases an individual.
Putting a giant "Go here to die" icon isn't really helping anybody.
Glad they are here to stay though.