Cysts
AurOn2
COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
<div class="IPBDescription">Just don't make sense in their current incarnation</div>Now don't get me wrong, this isn't about the infestation and how it works-- oh what am i kidding, thats the core but.
Cysts just don't make sense in their current incarnation.
I would much rather infestation as the AOE Splatter it was before, than a structure that soaks up a clip of rifle rounds. they just don't make sense. infestation makes more sense as a flamer tank soaker, than a rifle clip soaker, right?
Opinions?
Cysts just don't make sense in their current incarnation.
I would much rather infestation as the AOE Splatter it was before, than a structure that soaks up a clip of rifle rounds. they just don't make sense. infestation makes more sense as a flamer tank soaker, than a rifle clip soaker, right?
Opinions?
Comments
When I first saw the video in 2006 I dreamt of an organic thing that slowly grows around the map. And if you shoot at it it recedes and flamethrowers can burn it away. The current infestation may work from a gameplay perspective but it's not at all what I (and I believe many others) expected when it was first announced and it's probably the aesthetically least pleasing part of NS2.
i'd think this is more efficient as well - compared to say a totally dynamic mesh with a detailed dynamic hit reg.
Cysts are a tested and tried solution.
If you don't feel like blasting a clip of rifle ammo into one, pick up a welder (only 5 pres), they melt cysts in mere moments. That, or a flamethrower if you're high on cash.
I don't see the need to change them really, fine as they are.
Also why would you even waste rifle ammo on mature cysts when you can just either axe them or weld them?
Cysts are a tested and tried solution.
If you don't feel like blasting a clip of rifle ammo into one, pick up a welder (only 5 pres), they melt cysts in mere moments. That, or a flamethrower if you're high on cash.
I don't see the need to change them really, fine as they are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's true that they don't cause any game-breaking problems at the moment, but do they do cause problems that I personally think outweigh their benefits. As far as I can tell, their functions at the moment are:
1. Slow down and limit alien expansion (can be easily accomplished through other means, not to mention it has a very unfortunate side-effect of severely limiting alien strategies (for example; aliens have no choice with regards to which harvesters to drop in the early game and chambers cannot be cleverly placed around the map)).
2. Force marines to interact with static AI constructs (boring gameplay task, detrimental to marine gameplay).
3. Slow down marine sprint speed (pointless, not to mention that sprint is detrimental to gameplay in the first place and should be removed).
4. Speed up alien innate regeneration (also pointless).
5. Visual functions; spreads infestation; infestation visual functions and alien territory marker (personally I think both the current infestation and cysts look silly, giving the game an unfortunate cartoonish expression).
Of those functions, I think the only ones which have any merit are 1 and 4; "slow down and limit alien expansion" and its visual function as an "alien territory marker" through spreading infestation. Both of which can be accomplished without the use of cysts.
Personally, I would prefer it if they removed cysts altogheter, made infestation a purely cosmetic feature and made it spread out from hives (large spread) and resource towers (very small spread). That would still allow the to function as an alien territory marker, while slowing down and limiting alien expansion could be accomplished through other means. This would avoid all the unwanted issues associated with the current cysts/infestation without removing its wanted effects.
With regards to the infestation visuals; it is one my few complaints about the game's visuals. For the most part, I think NS2 looks fantastic. Unfortunately, the infestation looks absolutely awful and entirely mal-placed compared to the games otherwise bleak cyberpunk expression. Instead of plastering the walls with bright green goo straight out of a Ghostbusters movie, I wish they would give infestation a much more restrained look. It shouldn't completely cover over the map textures, and it definitely shouldn't be bright green goo, but rather improve on the map aesthetics by giving alien occupied parts of the map a touch of "hey, what's this weird stuff growing on the walls here -- I think we're getting close to something".
I not so much like the visuals of the infestation. The main problem with it is, that they have no own shader. Infestation on a metal wall still reflects light like the metal wall. It should have an own shader, that make it look dull and more soft. Also making it overall transparent doesn't look this good too. Maybe some holes in the infestation that shows the underlying wall, but not an overall transparent, shiny glossy look.
Just my 2 cent.
Wasn't this one was already removed a few patches ago?
Otherwise yeah the current implementation, especially the look, is a bit disappointnig compared to the original DI video. The cysts feel like a bit of a cop out.
Otherwise yeah the current implementation, especially the look, is a bit disappointnig compared to the original DI video. The cysts feel like a bit of a cop out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The DI from the video or a similar version is afaik still planned but has been pushed after launch of 1.0 since it would obviously look cool but it costs a lot of time to make and wouldn't improve the gameplay at the current state enough to invest the time.
Edit:
Btw i don't know how many this know the DI from the video was from the HL2 Engine. That's one of the reason it's not in the game since UWE decided to make their own engine.
Edit2:
And i'm personally for some kind of cysts since it's easier to understand for players what to destroy/kill to strop the spreading of the infestation from spreading. Afaik it is also more efficient from the programming point of view to have just one object that has to be checked if it has been hit that check for every inch of the infestation.
This is weird. I think you should only have Infestation for giving Aliens a speed and attack speed boost but it shouldn't be required for setting up Harvesters. Infestation should go out on its own slowly and slowly until that Hive is dead. I would love to see infestation reaching the Marine base, Holy crap!! We really don't need the Cyst, that's an idea from SC2 and it only works there because they're invisible and you just right click to kill them off easily after a scan.
I think this is a great idea :D What you guys think ;)
Nah nothing like that.
Cutting cyst chains will slowly damage the unconnected cysts to the point that they die.
Structures on the infestation continue to function normally. So RTs still generate res, crags still heal etc.
The infestation from the dead cyst will shrink until its gone.
Structures that are now off infestation will slow take damage and die.
Structures continue to work until they die, with the exception of the shade; which can't stay cloaked while taking damage.
1. Give your aliens a speed advantage in the marine base
2. Build an extractor on a res deposit when your cysts are still growing
3. Trick the marine commander into wasting a scan on an empty area that looks like it might be filled with invisible structures
The infestation would last 20 seconds and then die unless it was supported by cysts.
In your opinion they're not broken, but you should understand other player's feelings about the Cyst too ;)
I think they're fine, I just see them as annoying to kill and you're an easier target for Skulks when you're knifing the Cyst. So I never kill Cysts even with a Marine nearby watching my back because I make him get down and dirty :)
I think they're fine, I just see them as annoying to kill and you're an easier target for Skulks when you're knifing the Cyst. So I never kill Cysts even with a Marine nearby watching my back because I make him get down and dirty :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well he has an opinion and its his opinion if he doesnt like how it is and i wasn't saying other wise. But they aint broken and thats not an opinion. They work, They do the Job right, its not affecting other parts of the game and as it stands in these current build, they are nessesery. Thats becuase aliens can spread fast still and to make it where only flamethrowers can take them down again would mean alines could infest the map uncontested untill flamethrowers are researced, and then again that would just slow it down as they are expensive to reseach and but.
So No they are not Broken. Saying that though they could be other ways that work better then they do now, they could be numerous of better ways, but that doesnt mean they are broke.
Maybe this will cheer you up.
<!--quoteo(post=1958726:date=Aug 7 2012, 11:51 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 7 2012, 11:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958726"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
--Dynamic infestation -- The cyst mechanic was added as a necessary mechanic for gameplay, so that is likely not going to change when the final version of the infestation is implemented. A more 3 dimensional version of the infestation will not happen before 1.0, but we are still hoping to improve the look of the current version (at the moment it only uses a diffuse map, and no normal, spec,and glass maps which will improve the look of it a lot).
...
Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats what he posted a couple of hours ago
1. Give your aliens a speed advantage in the marine base
2. Build an extractor on a res deposit when your cysts are still growing
3. Trick the marine commander into wasting a scan on an empty area that looks like it might be filled with invisible structures
The infestation would last 20 seconds and then die unless it was supported by cysts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
4. build a forward base quickly (e.g. drop some whips and crags somewhere near the battle lines)while you backfill the up to the forward base with cysts. Of course the infestation would be temporary so you would need to backfill it with cysts otherwise it'll die and you would eventually lose your structures too.
Its non game breaking, gives gorges something else to build and allows for more intelligent placement on walls/roof etc instead of just on the floor. - Just go look at some of the game trailers there are cyts on walls etc- as it is they are always on the floor.
2. Force marines to interact with static AI constructs (boring gameplay task, detrimental to marine gameplay).
3. Slow down marine sprint speed (pointless, not to mention that sprint is detrimental to gameplay in the first place and should be removed).
4. Speed up alien innate regeneration (also pointless).
5. Visual functions; spreads infestation; infestation visual functions and alien territory marker (personally I think both the current infestation and cysts look silly, giving the game an unfortunate cartoonish expression).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Resource costs on structures "severely limit alien strategies", but that isn't a valid reason to remove them.
2. Any interaction with a structure would fall under this category. You are essentially advocating COD style gameplay where the only thing you ever attack is another player.
3. You can't simply say that it is pointless, you need to state a reason why. As far as I'm concerned, speed and mobility is of utmost importance, and reducing that is far from pointless.
4. As above.
5. Well that is personal opinion. I am of the opinion that the infestation mechanic and appearance is one of NS2's crowning achievements, completely transforming areas of a map until they are unrecognisable.
"eh?" Said it already. There were several problem with that. But I think it could come back in the form "plausiblesarge" mentioned it for the kham.
Giving the gorge the ability to throw up some temporary infestation (without cyst) would give the kham the possibility of making forward bases (more sneaky ninja gameplay for aliens). Strengthen the bond between kham and gorge. Allow for faster RT-placing by having a gorge that infests the RT before the cysts do. And all the other tactics that "plausiblesarge" wrote.
This really could work and be simple to implement. Just have the same effect like when you place a cyst (only without the cyst). The infestation starts to spread and after a while it just recedes again.
Giving the gorge the ability to throw up some temporary infestation (without cyst) would give the kham the possibility of making forward bases (more sneaky ninja gameplay for aliens). Strengthen the bond between kham and gorge. Allow for faster RT-placing by having a gorge that infests the RT before the cysts do. And all the other tactics that "plausiblesarge" wrote.
This really could work and be simple to implement. Just have the same effect like when you place a cyst (only without the cyst). The infestation starts to spread and after a while it just recedes again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well seeing as how cysts that are cut off from the main growth gradually die.... ?
Yeah, they where able to place infestation, then they where able to healspray the floor for tempory infestation and then they where able to place 'mini cycts'. Gorges used then a number of diffrent ways but since they dont need infestation to place their own units anymore they just became redundent.